Life Changes...Part Deux

[Lily]

Congratulations BB, she is a beautiful child.

GOB

I don't see a child, I see a beautiful young woman who must be very attractive by any North American standards, and would be a dream lady for many American men. It is a really rare occasion to see someone like her in Toronto, for example.

[GoodOlBoy]

I don't see a child, I see a beautiful young woman who must be very attractive by any North American standards, and would be a dream lady for many American men.

You are a VERY nice RW Lily, your posts are very sweet and kind.

But unfortunately, because of my line of work,  I have had some "interaction" with 40 something year old perverts who lust for the flesh of 17/18 year old schoolgirls.

Some go overseas to pursue their sickness.

It can make a decent mans skin crawl.


GOB

[pitbull]

I don't see a child, I see a beautiful young woman who must be very attractive by any North American standards, and would be a dream lady for many American men. It is a really rare occasion to see someone like her in Toronto, for example.

Hmmm.... I heard that women in Toronto are quite attractive. At least here in Boston I see tons of girlies who are as pretty or prettier than this one. The only thing is - I always see then with young handsome boys around their own age. Cannot imagine any of them touch our dear Billy with a 6-foot pole though.

[Boethius]

It is a really rare occasion to see someone like her in Toronto, for example.

Evidently, you don't travel in big circles in Toronto, Lily.  Stand outside Bay Street office towers, or walk through Yorkville, or even Holt Renfrew's women's department on a Saturday, and you will see dozens of women with the same or a better build, and who are more physically attractive.  

[GoodOlBoy]

GOB, I have a picture in my head that you are talking to a doctor about birth control and after your conversation, you go tell everyone that the dumb doctor you spoke to has some strange view about safe sex. 

And I have a picture in my head BB.
I see you sitting on top of your bulldozer, staring at all of those yellow school buses full of schoolgirls, driving by your construction jobsite every day.
What are you thinking about BB?? :evil:

GOB

[Daveman]

I don't see a child, I see a beautiful young woman who must be very attractive by any North American standards, and would be a dream lady for many American men. It is a really rare occasion to see someone like her in Toronto, for example.

I'm sort of in between.. if she were 4 (or more) years older (at least 22), there would be less complaint about the age gap.  I understand the mentality and brain development of an 18 year old, however, BillyB and she are both of legal age and can decide for themselves what they want to do.

She's way out of my own age range, and I can't understand the attraction (well, attraction, yes, but consideration as an actual marriage partner, no, I don't get that), but they are both adults, "legally", so they'll see where it all goes for themselves. It could be a hard lesson learned for both of them, or they could be like another member here and his wife "Traveller" or something like that, still together and happy a decade later with children et al. As they say.. "Life will show"..

[Misha]

It is a really rare occasion to see someone like her in Toronto, for example.

Lily, go to your average first year psychology lecture or other very large introductory class at the UofT, and I guarantee that you will see dozens of women that are more attractive and dozens more that are just as attractive 

[Vinnvinny]

Fact is that most guys Billy's age couldn't 'genuinely' date a teenager, even if they were desperate to. If Billy can, and she and he are happy, then good luck to them ... it's nobodies business other than theirs (and her mom's).

[dogspot]

Lily, go to your average first year psychology lecture or other very large introductory class at the UofT, and I guarantee that you will see dozens of women that are more attractive and dozens more that are just as attractive 

Evidently, you don't travel in big circles in Toronto, Lily.  Stand outside Bay Street office towers, or walk through Yorkville, or even Holt Renfrew's women's department on a Saturday, and you will see dozens of women with the same or a better build, and who are more physically attractive. 

More physically attractive? Says who? Better build? How do you figure? I personally feel Billy's young lady is as beautiful as they come. I live in San Diego, plenty of beautiful women here (mostly Russian, it seems), but I don't see women that are "more physically attractive" or with "a better build" that what I see in the photos that Billy has posted.

[Boethius]

Fact is that most guys Billy's age couldn't 'genuinely' date a teenager, even if they were desperate to.

In many poor countries, including Ukraine, they indeed can.

If Billy can, and she and he are happy, then good luck to them ... it's nobodies business other than theirs (and her mom's).

Nobody suggested otherwise.  If she is an "adult", as Billy claims, then mom's voice should be irrelevant.

In many EU countries, the age of consent is 13, 14 or 15.  In a couple of Latin American countries, the age of consent is 12.  I suppose one could say it is "nobody's business" if middle aged men (or women) seduce young teens/children in these countries, and technically, that is correct.  But is it moral?  Is it within the confines of decency?

More physically attractive? Says who? Better build? How do you figure? I personally feel Billy's young lady is as beautiful as they come. I live in San Diego, plenty of beautiful women here (mostly Russian, it seems), but I don't see women that are "more physically attractive" or with "a better build" that what I see in the photos that Billy has posted.

It's not really about the girl.  The point is that, contrary to Lily's assertion. there are many young women who are just as/more attractive.  I can go, as Misha noted, to any campus and find dozens of girls who are more attractive.  But, as pitbull pointed out, they are usually on the arm of an equally attractive young man.

[Misha]

More physically attractive? Says who? Better build? How do you figure?

All of the above. The fact of the matter is that if you go to any university campus pretty much anywhere in North America, you will find many EXTREMELY attractive young 18 or 19-year-old women  Women that would put the women on MOB agency sites to shame IMHO. As Beothius and others have noted, these women, however, won't generally date, let alone marry, 40-year-old men. 

[Jack]

More physically attractive? Says who? Better build? How do you figure? I personally feel Billy's young lady is as beautiful as they come. I live in San Diego, plenty of beautiful women here (mostly Russian, it seems), but I don't see women that are "more physically attractive" or with "a better build" that what I see in the photos that Billy has posted.

The same here. I see a fair amount of pretty ladies in Texas. I have a lot of relatives in California, including San Diego, often visit So Cal, and see some pretty ladies there. I have been to NYC, been to Canada, and see SOME beautiful ladies there.  Very FEW are as beautiful as Billy's girl.  Sure they say beauty is in the eye of the beholder and as a man who lives amoungest the worlds most beautiful women, I certaintly say this young lady Billy has interest in is a beautiful woman and I have seen very few as beautiful as her in Canada.  But I can certaintly understand where, why, older Russian women can say she is unattractive, just as many very unattractive American woman would classify her that way. Many men will know why.





Quote from: Eduard on Today at 12:01:52 PM
So here it is, telling it like it is: I went to look for my wife in Russia not because there were no women available here locally, where I live, but because in Russia I had a lot more choices and could find a much better looking, sexier, younger woman, who wasn't as spoiled by male attention as pretty local women were and who didn't have as much baggage as attractive local women had.

Your experience mirrors mine perfectly  

First let me say Misha your experience mirrors MOST men who are seeking a Rus/Ukr woman.  You are not the exception, you are the norm.  WHY do most men go to Ukraine/Russia to seek a wife?  
"More choices and could find a much better looking, sexier, younger woman"  END of Story.

As Beothius and others have noted, these women, however, won't generally date, let alone marry, 40-year-old men.  

I always see then with young handsome boys around their own age. Cannot imagine any of them touch our dear Billy with a 6-foot pole though.

ding, ding, ding, ding You are right on pitbull and Misha.  It is why many men go to Ukraine, go to Russia.  In these countries men who are seeking younger, more beautiful women and will have so many more choices as compared to what is available in Canada or America.  

[tim 360]

In many poor countries, including Ukraine, they indeed can.


In many EU countries, the age of consent is 13, 14 or 15.  In a couple of Latin American countries, the age of consent is 12.  I suppose one could say it is "nobody's business" if middle aged men (or women) seduce young teens/children in these countries, and technically, that is correct.  But is it moral?  Is it within the confines of decency?
 

/quote]

Good point Boethius.  I hate to play the Devils Advocate, but it is only within the past 100 years that 18 year old females were considered "children".  That is because we are modern?  Yet for thousand of years an 18, 16, 14 or even 12 year old was considered of marriageable age--at the onset of her first period.  This is true of the whole of human history.  I neither support nor condem the concept-- but hey...thats ancient and recent history in a nutshell.  As a species we have not changed so much; except technologically.  Shakespeare and Euripides are just as provoking now as they were when written, 500 or 2500 years ago.  Scientists still consider us Homo Sapiens with little changes since our forebearers, we have not evolved into a new species.  Turn back to just the early 1900's and an unmarried 20 year old girl was considered and old maid on the road to spinsterhood.

[Boethius]

No woman here said she's unattractive, Jack, just responding to Lily's assertion that there aren't many attractive women in Toronto.

Toronto is a big city.  I remember walking downtown one day, and two RM in front of me were discussing in great detail a stunningly beautiful woman who was walking on the opposite side of the street, their mouths gaping open at times.  I am fairly certain she was not Russian, but of Caribbean descent.

In these countries men who are seeking younger, more beautiful women and will have so many more choices as compared to what is available in Canada or America.

 

No, it is what is available to them.

When the economic situations in Russia and Ukraine improve, the majority of those women will no longer be available.

Tim, in those times, women were also chattel, who could be discarded at will, with no property rights, or human suffrage rights.

[GoodOlBoy]

When the economic situations in Russia and Ukraine improve, the majority of those women will no longer be available.

I agree with you Boethius, the clock is definitely ticking.
May I also add that I believe that the sex-tourism industry will eventually take it's toll also.

GOB

[Jack]

No woman here said she's unattractive, Jack,

Boethius, I did not indicate any woman on this forum had said she was unattractive.

When the economic situations in Russia and Ukraine improve, the majority of those women will no longer be available.

Well Botthius we will simply have to agree to disagree with your statement.

The economic situation in Russia and Ukraine are, in my opinion, the reason why only a very small percentage of the women from 23 to 40 seek a foreign husband.  

And of course I know we will disagree over this Boethius but thank goodness we can share our respected opinions.

The young Russian/Ukraine girls of 18, 19, 20, 21 and even 22 are enjoying being young women, enjoying there youth, enjoying the attention and companionship of Russian/Ukraine boys of 19, 20, 21, 22, 23.   And yes for Billy's young girl to show him so much interest is NOT the norm, but the rare exception.

It is usually about one year out of the university before most Rus/Ukr ladies are ready for marriage, family.  It is when these young women become 21, 22 and 23 that they begin to see a pattern developing with many Rus/Ukr men.    When these girls were 17, 18, 19, many were going through their first love, first relationships.  We all remember how special those first relationships were.  And with many of these young boys of 18, 19, 20, they also are going through many of their first relationships and as such, these young boys of 18, 19, 20 are much into their girlfriend. They are sweet, tender, caring and loving.  And when many of these young men go to their second relationship and third relationship, they are still quite caring and loving.  These young Rus/Ukr 17, 18, 19 year old girls are getting pretty much the same type attention and care as our own American girls. As I said, they are happy with life, happy with being young, enjoying their youth.

Then, as I mentioned, at about 21, 22, 23, these young women begin to see a change in the Rus/Ukraine men.   Now these young Rus/Ukraine men of 23, 24, 25 see the actions of their brothers, their fathers, uncles, cousins and other male friends.  These young Rus/Ukr men have so many choices of so many fine and beautiful young ladies that after 6 month, a year with this young beauty, it's time to try someone else, like a bee going from flower to flower.

You can disagree with me all you want Boethius but I have seen this way of life first hand from these young men for 16 years. I have talked to many, many young men of 19, 20, 21. I have talked with many, many young men of 23, 24, 25.  I have talked to many young men of 28, 29, 30.   And of course I have spoken to thousands of young ladies from 18 to 30.  I hear from these women as I hear from the men.

I could go on and on and on as to what these young boys, young men, have talked about. I could fill a few books on this subject alone.

I have never been one of those who have said all Russian or Ukraine men are bad. I have seen first hand some of the most wonderful fathers, most loving and faithful husbands. They do exist. But in my opinion, only about 35% of the Russian and Ukraine men I have seen fall into this category.

In my opinion Boethius the better economy is NOT going to change these women's outlook on life, the way's and manners of the Russian and Ukraine men however will.  When MANY young ladies of 24, 25, 26 begin to seriously think about marriage, children, a family, now these women are so much more opened to consider a foreign man. Not necessarily an American man, but a foreign man. Maybe a man from Italy, from Germany, from England.  These young ladies "hear" and believe that most foreign men will be better providers, better fathers and better husbands and for the most part they are correct.

I laugh when I hear people say "oh, they are leaving because of the economy. Just wait till it get's better, they will not leave".    It's going to take at least two generations before Russian and Ukraine men change, and they haven't even started yet. The way papa lives, how papa lives, the son see's and imitates. At least two generations to change once the changes begin.

As I mentioned, these Rus/Ukr men are so spoiled by having so many beautiful women to choose from that even after almost 18 years of foreign men marrying Russian/Ukraine women, we have not even made a dent into the number of available ladies. Even today the Russian and Ukraine men do not feel threatened by the foreign men because there are so many fine ladies to choose from.

So Boethius you can say when the economy get's better the women will not be leaving.  I do not believe that most women are leaving today because of the economy, but more to do with the Rus/Ukr men.

[kievstar]

BillyB, you have a picture of that girl, you, and the mother? 

To answer a question you asked weeks ago anyone can meet 100 plus women not hard to do use free personals and / or agency.

[Ade]

For Billy's contraception education; http://www.contraceptivetechnology.org/table.html Perhaps he can pass it on to the mother of his prospective child-bride.

[facetrock]

  Good post Jack I agree with most of it. I do think the economic situation does have something to do with the women leaving but not as much as the attitude of a large percentage of men. How many here have met women with children who tell the same story. After the divorce the man completly vanishes from the children lives. I have yet to meet one that didnt tell me that story. That right there says alot about the attitude of Russian men. Usually in the west there is a huge pissing match to see who gets custody of the children.
   
  Men seeking FSU women will go on for decades and I dont think there will be a shortage of women to meet.

[Patagonie]

 I agree totally with Jack, man are spoiled in FSU with woman. An a lot cannot stop to date and f..... even after getting married. Among the woman i met three of them, a 8.5 a 8.7 and a 9.1 who told me that theirs husbands were unfaithful. Two of them asked the divorce. National sport in FSU for man is to have mistress (for a lot of them). :kissing:

[Jooky]

I personally feel Billy's young lady is as beautiful as they come.

Same here.

She's 18. She's an adult. I don't know if the rest of you were still children at age 18. I wasn't. I could work, vote, go to war, get married and make all important decisions that would impact my life independently. (For some strange reason the 'law' said I couldn't drink, but that law was wrong).

I frankly don't see older adults in their 30s, 40s, 50s, or any age making more or less responsible 'adult' decisions than the 18-22 year olds I hung out with back in college.

If you want some examples of what I'm talking about, just read these forums. 

[Boethius]

Did you take Mommy along on dates, Jooky?

[Jooky]

Did you take Mommy along on dates, Jooky?

Of course! And I still do!

[Daveman]

Of course! And I still do!

LoL.. me too.. only mine makes ghostly sounds from the great beyond which tend to scare the heck outta people... she loves to do that.. during the most inopportune moments we hear "pullllll oooouuut whiiiiile yoooouuuuuu stiiiiill caaaaaaaaan!"

Did you take Mommy along on dates, Jooky?

Okay, I may misremember here... but isn't Mama along on vacation rather than tagging along on dates?  Seems She and Mama spend time together, She and Billy spend time together, then sometimes all three of them are together.  That would seem rather normal to me with the vacation scenario...  now some of her questions... those seem to be a little on the weird side...

[Vinnvinny]

Of course! And I still do!

... and me though I'd prefer to take my own, but it's difficult.