Life Changes...Part Deux

[Misha]

As far as the "new age sensitive man" thing, I have explained it briefly already. These are guys who are trying to be someone they are not. Trying to conform to an image of what their concept of societies expectations are of a modern man. Not sincere about their beliefs.

Okay, but who exactly are these guys? Guys here on the forum? Guys out there not on the forum?

[Turboguy]

Daveman, my wife wanted scrambled eggs for breakfast and I wanted pancakes. We decided to compromise and eat an omelette. Should I call a divorce lawyer this afternoon LOL! My advice to those who want a perfect relationship where they will be the man, make all the decisions and never compromise: stay single

We compromise as well.  If my wife wants scrambled eggs for breakfast and I want pancakes we compromise and have scrambled eggs. 

Frankly I have a hard time relating to the importance of being in control or being "the man".  My wife and I are both people with normal wants and desires.   I couldn't care less if I had scrambled eggs or pancakes for breakfast.  Usually my wife and I agree on things so much that it never becomes what I want vs what she wants.  We talk about things and discuss the pros and cons and want the same thing.  If it is something that affects my life I do pretty much what I want and if it is something that affects her life we do what she wants and other things we talk about and try to find something we are both happy with.         

[Misha]

I couldn't care less if I had scrambled eggs or pancakes for breakfast.      

Turbo, I do hope you understand that the smiley face after my quip about scrambled eggs versus pancakes indicated that I was being facetious 

[Daveman]

Turbo, I do hope you understand that the smiley face after my quip about scrambled eggs versus pancakes indicated that I was being facetious 

I still say it's give and take... for example, in your Pancake vs Scrambled Eggs scenario... In reality, I'm pretty sure that after such an altercation with any of the FSUW I've dated, I'd simply 'take' the pancake from ass and 'give' it to the dog.  Give and take... yeah, that's it!   

[GQBlues]

I still say it's give and take... for example, in your Pancake vs Scrambled Eggs scenario... In reality, I'm pretty sure that after such an altercation with any of the FSUW I've dated, I'd simply 'take' the pancake from ass and 'give' it to the dog.  Give and take... yeah, that's it!

Holy Molly! I thought this was reconciled back in the '70s when John Stern Brady, then married to Olga Kusholova, figured out the best way to handle this cultural difference was to do something to incorporate two ideas into one and maintain a peaceful environment during breakfast. Hence, the creation of 'McPancake'. I remember watching re-runs of the Brady Bunch where they actually introduced this breafast creation.

It was such a hit they actually even wrote an article about it in the 1976 September issue of Popular Mechanics.

[BillyB]

Billy has a more traditional approach, man is the decision maker. It doesn't mean he isn't sensitive to the woman's position,

I guess some people think I'm a tyrant now because I don't think like them?

I don't care if my woman is making most of the decisions from how to decorate the house to what to cook, to handling finances as long as she is responsible but if she wants to make a decision that I'm against and there is no compromise between us, someone has to have the final say. I would hope my woman is in a relationship with me because she trusts and respects me to make a good call when having the final say. I really don't care if she makes more than 90% of the decisions as long as she has a track record for being right more than wrong. I prefer smart women since I wouldn't have to use my head all the time.

I don't want a relationship of equals. Men and women should play different roles... the roles they perform best. Keeping score on what is or isn't equal only leads to one or both parties thinking they are not getting a fair share of help or decision making in a relationship and the relationship goes downhill from there unless one person accepts their spouse's definition what is "equal" which is ususally not their definition. I know of one poster in this thread who posted they like things being equal in a relationship but once admitted not sleeping with their spouse. I wonder if their spouse thinks they are having an equally rewarding relationship?

I don't buy the ladies I date shoes and clothes, just dinners and give them my time but I give more than I take and they give back in a way only a woman could. If they are selfish, I would not be going out with them. If I were selfish, do you think they'll like me? For those who want equal rights, maybe it's hard for you to understand, but maybe I bring more into a relationship/friendship than I take and not the other way around? It's a wonderful feeling when two people can give unselfishly without keeping score.

The ladies that can tolerate my looks and willing to date me are very happy with me. Sometimes I'd go to their apartment or house and mount a kitchen rack or clock on the wall or help them with various other things in life or in their home they can't figure out. I like it when they say "It's nice to have a man around the house". Some of the ladies that go out with me are very liberal and they know and accept me even though on the conservative side. One would even marry me and another wants me to be much closer to her. Those equal rights girls have learned I'm a wonderful man to have in their lives and are letting me have things my way more often than not because they like the results.

 
One RW I was out with weekend told me some stories of a couple of friends of hers.

One friend is married to a man close in age. They've been married 3 years and 2  months ago she found out he takes antidepressants. He should have told her this before marriage but he was hiding this from her. If he doesn't take his medication, he gets angry and she can't tolerate his behavior and is worried that he could snap. When he takes his medication properly, he loses his sex drive. They have sex once a month and it lasts a minute and if she's lucky 2 minutes.
I tell my RW friend that she has more intimacy in one night than her friend has had in the past 3 years. She smiles happily.

I've read studies that the average man lasts about 3-10 minutes in bed. I asked my RW friend who's a doctor and once seen about 15 penises a day on the job about that and she said it's sadly true. I know, based on reading, that many trip reports that went bad were due to lack of chemistry or poor behavior of a RW but I suspect some relationships go bad because there is no physical bonding whether is a lack of physical contact such as holding hands or poor performance when it comes to intimacy. It's up to the MAN to take the lead and be responsible for performance, it's not about equal rights and who's turn it is to initiate contact.

I don't know if some guys out there get too excited or are just selfish only caring about themselves but think about your lady and how to please her. If you got to think about work when making love to last longer, then do so. If you are making love with your lady for the first time, the last thing you want her to think about is how poor the physical relationship will be with you. If she is really happy with you, she will want you back over and over. I understand some older couples may lose their sex drive but women in their 40-50's can still have a healthy drive. If you're married, it's even more reason to stay focused and keep your partner happy. Women talk to each other and it's better they brag than complain about their man. Enough RW talked about it to me to understand that some guys have problems in the bedroom department. If you're one of those guys, better up your game before your woman disqualifies you.

Another RW my RW friend knows doesn't speak English. She married a man much older than herself. She was worried why her husband had to call the police occasionally. The guy, 80 years old, died last year but I suspect he was on some kind of probation for a violent or sexual crime committed in the past and had to report to the cops his whereabouts on a regular schedule. The RW married the guy because she wanted to come to America. I suspect they both did not remotely know the person they were marrying.

[GQBlues]

Not a case of good or bad but just different.

I didn't have too many long term relationships prior to getting married with my wife, but in those I did have including my marriage now; I always made it my personal delight to know every information of my GF's/Wife's body measurements. Not because I shower them with clothes, etc...but just because I know there will always come a time that I may happen to see something I just know they would like and it would be ice to come home to surprise them with it. Whether it's shoe size, bra size, pant size, dress size, finger/ring size, etc...favorite colors, materials, etc...I know I get gratification when  my ex's (before) and my wife now, surprises me with something that not only looks good on me and but would also perfectly fit. That to me shows some deeper element in our relationship, not in the item itself, but the more sublime display that they do in fact took the time to know me.

As for 'equals' and who does what to whom and how much or none at all, to actually make any form of distincton or delegations in relationships is counter-productive to me. At least that's what I've always believed in. Duties, roles, and chores - no thanks, it's not for me. It makes many things in a relationship 'obligatory'. As a life partner, I strongly believe my wife need to be satisfied with her own self and worth before she can find contentment in our relationship. It just doesn't work any other way for me. Of course that applies to myself as well. If I'm not happy with me - no matter what my wife does and who she is and what she does in our relationship, chances are slim happiness will long reside in our marriage.

For sure, I abhor a submissive woman who feels that making me happy is all about cooking me hot meals and getting herself wet on demand.

[SMS60]

I agree Billy, I always call it the "natural order of things"

The women who are wife material are the ones who want to be taken by the hand and lead thru life by a respectable man. This is the nature of a woman.

Men are traveling 5000 miles to date women because they dont like AW or aren't happy with them. Then treat these women the same as they would an AW and expect something different.

Men are ashamed to admit they are a man. WTF!

[Daveman]

Not a case of good or bad but just different.

...As a life partner, I strongly believe my wife need to be satisfied with her own self and worth before she can find contentment in our relationship. ...

Absolutely agree there..about one's partner as well as one's self. 

... a submissive woman who feels that making me happy is all about cooking me hot meals and getting herself wet on demand.

buuuuuuuuuuut... on the other hand.....  :evil:

[GQBlues]

buuuuuuuuuuut... on the other hand.....  :evil:

Oooppsss...my bad. OK...maybe occasionally?   

[Misha]

I guess some people think I'm a tyrant now because I don't think like them?

No, but I question whether you will truly be able to find the kind of woman you are seeking: the woman who will accept you as the "teacher" and who will happily turn over all decision-making to you  If you want to get a better idea of where the average RW is likely to stand IMHO, go reread Doll's posts.

[Misha]

I agree Billy, I always call it the "natural order of things"

The women who are wife material are the ones who want to be taken by the hand and lead thru life by a respectable man. This is the nature of a woman.

Men are traveling 5000 miles to date women because they dont like AW or aren't happy with them. Then treat these women the same as they would an AW and expect something different.

Men are ashamed to admit they are a man. WTF!

Remind me again how many times you have been to Russia and how many Russian women you have actually met, dated and married 

[Seeker]

Remind me again how many times you have been to Russia and how many Russian women you have actually met, dated and married 

For at least the next 36 hours I can say I have never been either.  But even I know that the woman I would choose to be with would have to be an equal partner.  Just my preference.

Now there are men and women that think differently, and I hope they meet each other.

I don't think this is a right/wrong thing.  It is just an example of how people are different.

[Blues Fairy]

I would hope my woman is in a relationship with me because she trusts and respects me to make a good call when having the final say. I really don't care if she makes more than 90% of the decisions as long as she has a track record for being right more than wrong.

If she trusts and respects you enough to leave the "final say" to you, why would she even bother to make the other 90% of the decisions.  Why not leave ALL decisions to you, since you're so trusted and respected, and lead a life of a careless child held by the hand and led through life?   

On the other hand, if you trust her with 90% of decisions (provided she has a good "track record" - BTW how many years does it take to earn one?) - why not trust her with a "final say"?  I guess you don't really trust her, and those 90% of decisions would still have to be verified, at least in the process of earning the track record?

[BillyB]

For sure, I abhor a submissive woman who feels that making me happy is all about cooking me hot meals and getting herself wet on demand.

Why does a woman who cooks to make a guy happy and gets horny for him associated with being submissive? Can these things happen because a woman loves her husband?

I consider a woman like Lily naturally intelligent. She is also highly educated and is a strong person being able to move to Canada on her own. Her online personality is classy, elegant, calm, and tolerant. She also understands some men are more intelligent than her and she will willing accept his wisdom and guidance. It would be nice if all women could have faith and trust their man in that manner. I think any man would be lucky to have her and she is deserving of a man who knows how to take care of her too.

I just reread 2 pages of the feelings and behavior of "BillyB the tyrant" when "BillyB the tyrant" doesn't exist. Why? I said " If anybody here feels their RW doesn't let them be the MAN of the house, either she or you has problems." and it didn't go well with some. I don't like gender neutral relationships being half man and half woman.


If people accept their roles within a relationship there is less submission taking place than a relationship of those who want equality. When two people understand and execute their roles, there is less debate, less quarreling, less decision making happening and less bad feelings compared to those who seek pure equality.

Most relationships I've seen where people seek equality, it's usually the man submitting constantly to the woman's brand of equality.

The man will do half the cooking, cleaning, washing dishes but he is too afraid to tell his wife to give the car an oil change and tune up. He's afraid to tell her it's her turn to mow the grass or fix the toilet. If his woman does do her fair share of man's chores, it's because she wants to and the man is at the mercy of her judgement on what is fair and equal. Because she doesn't know how to give unselfishly, she may withhold sex to gain leverage when the time comes to discuss who's turn it is to do the chores. Yeah, some wives tend to get real tired at night when it's their turn to do the chores so their man will be motivated to more and more so he can get some.

Anybody out there playing those childish games now in the name of equality? Want equality? Be careful what you wish for.

Most of you who figured me out wrong automatically assume I'm just a big mouth who issues out orders, do nothing around the house and won't help my lady do some of her chores but now that I think about it, in all my relationships I've helped the ladies do chores women are traditionally responsible for more than they've done a man's/mine.

My kind of woman is strong, smart, understands what she does well and does it, understands responsibilities and takes care of it without having being told to be responsible, and enjoys playing the woman in a relationship. My kind of woman is a lot like Lily. Lily would you marry me! I promise I'll only command you to vacuum the house once a day!

If you want to get a better idea of where the average RW is likely to stand IMHO, go reread Doll's posts.

You should reread Doll's posts. Throughout her time here, Doll have talked about a few less than desirable things in her relationship with her husband. She gave me the impression she's not in entirely ideal relationship. Maybe there's a neverending battle for equality happening? Until she finds happiness I'm not sure a relationship of equals is the answer she's looking for. I really don't care what the average relationship is like or what the average person is thinking. I know what can be found out there as far a different kinds of people and everyone should find what will make them happy.

[SMS60]

Remind me again how many times you have been to Russia and how many Russian women you have actually met, dated and married 

To meet the met, dated and married criteria you will need all your fingers or toes to count with. Give or take the thumbs.

[Misha]

I don't think this is a right/wrong thing.  It is just an example of how people are different.

No, it is an example of how some men can hold the oddest of beliefs IMHO about Russian women without actually having met any Russians or even traveled to the FSU. If men believe that they will find hordes of submissive women willing to let their men decide everything for them, let me get my popcorn ready. There are going to be plenty more train wrecks  :hipdude:

[Seeker]

No, it is an example of how some men can hold the oddest of beliefs IMHO about Russian women without actually having met any Russians or even traveled to the FSU. If men believe that they will find hordes of submissive women willing to let their men decide everything for them, let me get my popcorn ready. There are going to be plenty more train wrecks  :hipdude:

I have known women (and dated them) who wanted to be submissive.  And not (just) in a kinky way, they wanted a man to lead so that they could follow.  And there are many shades in between.  We are only focused on extremes.  We all fall somewhere in the middle and make our own choices.  I see nothing wrong with that.

To each his own. 

[Misha]

I have known women (and dated them) who wanted to be submissive.  And not (just) in a kinky way, they wanted a man to lead so that they could follow.  And there are many shades in between.  We are only focused on extremes.  We all fall somewhere in the middle and make our own choices.  I see nothing wrong with that.

To each his own. 

You see, what women say they will do before they marry and what they actually do afterward are not necessarily the same thing 

[Seeker]

You see, what women say they will do before they marry and what they actually do afterward are not necessarily the same thing 

I am sure they say the same thing about us men.   

[BillyB]

If she trusts and respects you enough to leave the "final say" to you, why would she even bother to make the other 90% of the decisions.  Why not leave ALL decisions to you, since you're so trusted and respected, and lead a life of a careless child held by the hand and led through life?    

Some of you guys are making a mountain out of a mole hill. If she wants to cook steak for dinner, I don't have to give a command for her to do that. She may cook steak because she likes it or she know's I like it. Making decisions as if it's make or break on what to eat and the little things in life are silly.

She can decorate the house any way she wants but if I tell her putting that couch near a baseboard heater may melt the fabric or start a fire, she should listen to me don't you think?

She gets to use credit cards and handle money. If she spends money responsibly, there's no reason for me to take action but if spends more than we can afford, then I will say something.

If I'm a complete idiot around the house and spend more than I can afford, a woman shouldn't marry me if she can't respect me. Women tend to marry older, mature men because they want a man they can depend on, not a child.

 On the other hand, if you trust her with 90% of decisions (provided she has a good "track record" -why not trust her with a "final say"?

Because the other 10% of the time can be bad or fatal. Baseboard heater touching couch equals fire. Hanging something heavy on the wall without a stud available for the nail/screw to anchor on is bad. Sheetrock is nice but not strong enough for heavy items. How many examples do you want?  

[Daveman]

I think it's also important to remember that what fires attraction and chemistry is usually quite different from what creates compatibility and longevity.

The initial phases fire off on the primal subconscious level, for a variety of diverse individual reasons. The later phases are more on the conscious level.  

Soooooo, in other words, what will attract her (or him), ain't necessarily the same as what will keep her(him).  Know yourself. Know your potential partner (as best you can).

[GQBlues]

Why does a woman who cooks to make a guy happy and gets horny for him associated with being submissive? Can these things happen because a woman loves her husband?

Why ask why? Could it because it is the general implications men make when they ask, "Who's yo Daddy". Who DAH MAN? dammit.....

All of us are driven by ideals Billy, you and I are not exceptions to that rule. There certainly is nothing wrong with it, nor is it a matter of good/bad. It's a personal belief of what will make us individually happy, content, etc....

To exemplify a point...many define the word 'excellence' as a person who excels above others. Others may define it as having others excel because of him/her.

I certainly hope that my wife/partner is not lost of her individuality, thereby affording me limitless luxury to decide for us simply because of her gender, or mine. That to me promotes dependency, or worst a liability. A subservient, a lesser entity in my most and deepest intimate personal relations. Certainly not the type I would seek as a partner. Nor one I can endear..

Trust and respect are NOT gender specific nor should they be made so. But hey, like I said, it is simply a matter of differences in our respective beliefs.

So yes, for me...I absolutely abhor a submissive woman. It screams helplessness...and my role in it isn't such an admirable position either.

But that's just me...  

[BillyB]

I certainly hope that my wife/partner is not lost of her individuality, thereby affording me limitless luxury to decide for us simply because of her gender, or mine.

Ya know, after reading that I think I better understand why some people are upset and it's because they think I'm making an issue pertaining to which gender is wiser when in fact I'm talking about who has more life experience and wisdom should be making most the important decisions. Women tend to marry a man that they don't have to teach and babysit so most likely the man should have more life experience and wisdom compared to his woman and in a relationship, his decisions are going to be better. Who's really wiser gender wise in life? I've said women need to marry an older man so in essence I'm also saying women on average are wiser than men of the same age. Does that make anybody feel better?

GQ, If you are happy with your wife's personality, individuality and how she treats you, great. I hope that is the reason you married her so why would you or anybody want to change anything?

Some RW have said on these forums they don't sleep or cook for their man. They usually don't state what they do to make their husbands happy but I guess some men happily enter into a relationship with those facts. Maybe just being married makes them happy. I need a lot more than those men to make me happy. I'm also capable of making a woman very happy myself and offering much more than nothing.

[Blues Fairy]

If I'm a complete idiot around the house and spend more than I can afford, a woman shouldn't marry me if she can't respect me. Women tend to marry older, mature men because they want a man they can depend on, not a child.

Because the other 10% of the time can be bad or fatal.

So you assume that a woman makes bad or fatal decisions 10% of the time, whereas YOU make good and safe decisions 100% of the time?    And based on this assumption, you want to reserve the "final say" in any matter deserving of your special attention?