My Stupid WOVO trip to FSU

[Shostakovich]

Doesn't the VO/VM debate come down to something really simple: If you have a well-developed, romantic correspondence with one, visit her only, if not VM.

The thing I've never understood is why anyone would only WO, thus WOVO should be abandoned entirely in favor of WMVO.

[Turboguy]

I think you make a good point Shostakovich.  I also think there are more tools available now that help to build a good relationship before that first visit and although I am a firm believer in VM or at least more than one, I do think things like video chat and skype can help improve the odds on a VO. 

I started in the pre-internet days when you used snail mail and from the time you wrote until you got an answer was often 4-5 weeks.  It was hard to really get to know someone and phone calls were still very expensive in those days.  Then it went to the women going to internet cafes and that was a big improvement.  Now lots of the gals have their own computer and video capability and you can develop a stronger relationship.  Still I had an awful lot of trips where I thought I had a good bond with the women and the trip was basically a disaster.

[Gylden]

What I have learned over the course of this adventure, is that all of this labeling of things is over simplifying the matter. It is not simply WOVO or WMVM. Almost allways (allways IMO) things start out like Shosti says, WM or at least WF then VO or VM. Everyones approach is different too and expectations. Some men simply get on a plane after having made contact with a few ladies and go to see what they are like. Others spend plenty of time chatting, emails, calls, etc there by getting to know a/several women better before going. Some are ULTRA focused on that she be a 10+ or better. There will be as many different approaches as there are different men/women.

Some of the best posts I have read here are as follows: (the quotes may not be exact as I am quoting from memory)
" Whether you are a WMVM or WOVO type the ultimate goal gets down to VO and Marry One"
"The best way to get to know a woman is to move to the FSU and live there and get to know her where she feels at home"


Most important is to get to know each other, the less time you have with a woman, the higher the risk is that things will go south. Guys with less available time will have a tendency to make poorer decisions or draw things out so long that the woman will lose interest. (and you will still have to pay for her lessons).

[Gylden]

Turbo,
You say you started with snail mail, before there was internet. How long ago did you start? Also from the posted info, it seems like you have been married for 0-2 years. Did it take you a long time to find a wife?  Just curious..

[Turboguy]

Turbo,
You say you started with snail mail, before there was internet. How long ago did you start? Also from the posted info, it seems like you have been married for 0-2 years. Did it take you a long time to find a wife?  Just curious..

I believe I made my first trip in 1994 and probably started writing women using Club Prima from Houston in 1993. 

That first trip was really tough since there were few resources for going to the FSU but I went to Moscow, Perm and Kiev.  The lady I liked the most was from Moscow but we had problems connecting and never did meet.  I met one other lady from Moscow who sent pictures where she looked like a 6-7 but they must have been from high school 15 years earlier.  The other two I met were not right for one reason or another.

I made an average of a trip a year through 98 or so and then got into the tour thing with EC which was a waste of time and money and all I met were scammers.   Then I dropped out for a year or more and had given up.  Then I met a woman I had tried to meet in Moscow in '98 who married and moved to SanFrancisco and was getting divorced.  That didn't work out but she struck me as the kind of woman I always dreamed of finding so I felt if good RW really existed I would give it another shot.   I started again.  One more tour and then a few trips and I met my first fiancee.  4 trips and a K-1 wasted with her and back at it with an all out effort.  I had times that I almost hopped off one plane from Russia and onto another back .  10 months after my first fiancee returned to Russia I met my wife and that was 2006. 

All in all about 25 trips.  3 of those were big agency tours and one was Jack's tour which I liked.  The thing that helped me the most was finding RWD and being able to learn from the mistakes of others rather than having to make all of them myself.

[Gylden]

WOW!
Thanks for sharing, I got to hand it to you, you sure persevered!!
 

[BillyB]

What is interesting also, and telling, is the follow on debate: if StupidGuy has deceived the experienced members of the RWD, I suppose it makes him, in a sense, smarter than all of you. 

A troll's goal at a forum is to cause trouble. One of my goals would be to help people. Whether or not a story is true or false, I will accomplish my goal. A silly childish person who plays games isn't smarter than many people here.

My and other poster's serious responses to a troll's fabricated story is better for this forum than treating every story with skepticism, ruining the thread(which seems to have happened here), and turning the forum into an animal house. I will treat SG as a real guy who had a true life experience until real evidence proves otherwise. Even if the story proves fabricated, the good advice administered IS still good advice for someone reading in the same predicament. If a troll comes to this forum trying to cause problems and people walk away more educated, the jokes on him.

When you read Muck's T/R you will understand that the compelling theme of a WOVO is the fact that it is the most romantic approach.

VO is the most romantic way to go but no matter how romantic a guy is, if he has issues mentally of physically or a woman doesn't feel chemistry with him, she can drop him in a matter of minutes. If a guy thinks being super romantic is going to get him married, then he's setting himself up for disappointment.

The ONLY reason a guy should go VO is because he found a woman that stands above the rest, has fantastic and normal correspondence with, and felt a bond with the lady due to having many similar thoughts and goals in life. Having lots of phone calls are important to create some bond starting with friendship. If a guy can't hold a conversation with the RW on the phone, most likely he can't hold a conversation with her in real life. I know some recommend to just get on a plane but what's the friggin rush? Rushing into things get people in trouble. Do some homework to make an educated decision. It can't hurt to know a little about the lady(s) a guy is visiting.

Unfortunately, some guys decide to go VO after they see one photo of a beautiful woman on the internet or a RW writes him sexy letters and then he begins to feel a bond with her. Then the guy decides to take that romantic VO trip!

[Gylden]

One more thought about this thread and others like it.

IMO maybe the language thing is more important that the WOVO/WMVM thing.

 

[Faux Pas]

A troll's goal at a forum is to cause trouble. One of my goals would be to help people. Whether or not a story is true or false, I will accomplish my goal. A silly childish person who plays games isn't smarter than many people here.

My and other poster's serious responses to a troll's fabricated story is better for this forum than treating every story with skepticism, ruining the thread(which seems to have happened here), and turning the forum into an animal house. I will treat SG as a real guy who had a true life experience until real evidence proves otherwise. Even if the story proves fabricated, the good advice administered IS still good advice for someone reading in the same predicament. If a troll comes to this forum trying to cause problems and people walk away more educated, the jokes on him.

My thoughts exactly

[I/O]

One more thought about this thread and others like it.

IMO maybe the language thing is more important that the WOVO/WMVM thing.

 

VO/VM, add language, add age gap and perhaps you can give me a shout when the thread reaches 30 pages, having completely lost focus on the original subject.

[Faux Pas]

StupidGuy hasn't seen the need to return back to his thread. Perhaps he was a troll.

[Gator]

StupidGuy hasn't seen the need to return back to his thread. Perhaps he was a troll.

Trying to pull him out?

He has returned - just has not seen the need to reply.  And why should he?  No one has asked him a question worthy of a response.  Many call him a liar.   IMO a troll or a jester would continue to stir the pot.

[SMS60]

you guys are so easy

[Faux Pas]

Trying to pull him out?

He has returned - just has not seen the need to reply.  And why should he?  No one has asked him a question worthy of a response.  Many call him a liar.   IMO a troll or a jester would continue to stir the pot.

Well it was worth a try. I'd like to see the thread back on topic but what's the use I suppose. Some trolls enjoy just dropping by for a doo doo bomb. Look, there's SMS

[SMS60]

Yelp, Im a troll. You will just have to deal with it.

So what topic you want to get back to? You start out and I will follow.

I see one part of his story which would have caused me to bail before I boarded the plane.

Ok, faxie  your turn.

[Jack]

Hey I/O, had late evening, walking out the door catching our chartered bus from Kharkov to Lugansk. Will reply back to your questions once I get settled into flat in Lugansk.

[I/O]

Kharkov to Lugansk.

A fun trip down the Eastern Route.

[Shadow]

Trying to pull him out?

He has returned - just has not seen the need to reply.  And why should he?  No one has asked him a question worthy of a response.  Many call him a liar.   IMO a troll or a jester would continue to stir the pot.

I have asked him 4 very valid questions that he chooses not to reply.
The reason is very simple, by his reply he would have to give away that his story is a total and complete fake.

The story itself is plausible, and I would not dismiss that it COULD happen.
But I have more than enough evidence to the contrary in this case.

[thompsongunner06]

This is what you get when you have no real assistance,,ripped off. I tried to get a few guys that wanted verified real potential wifes,,,not one wanted the assistance,,everyone seems to think they are more smarter and can do this on their own. Good luck,kiss you money and vacation time goodbye,,enjoy the locations. If you think some hot women is sitting in front of a computer think again,,its prob a Russian Mafia guy or some poor women "prisoner" forced to do it.

[Gylden]

Well, I think I have to agree with SJ, at least in part, StupidGuy is either a troll and /or a StupidGuy for real.
Stupid guys don't need to go to the FSU to get scammed, but when they do go and they put together a "patch work" trip, they are in for a real disappointment.

[JR]

I think StupidGuy should change his name to BraveGuy, he has/had the balls to go.

[Gylden]

Hello JR,
It's funny you showed up here, as it seems to me to be a contrasting example.

JR  vs StupidGuy

Both had kind of a blow out trip, but the attitude, completely 180 degrees different.

Hey StupidGuy, I recommend you go and read JR's trip report (if you are indeed not a troll)

A clever man can make a good result from a bad situation.

[Ade]

I think StupidGuy should change his name to BraveGuy, he has/had the balls to go.

Do you honestly think it has anything to do with bravery to get on a plane and fly to an industrialized country? 

[JR]

Do you honestly think it has anything to do with bravery to get on a plane and fly to an industrialized country? 

Based upon how many men I have talked to who are afraid to so I'd have to say yes. Or maybe it would be better phrased as a lack of ignorance Either way he actually made the trip which is more than a most peeps here can say. And no I am not talking about the posters but rather the lurkers.

[Ade]

Based upon how many men I have talked to who are afraid to so I'd have to say yes. Or maybe it would be better phrased as a lack of ignorance Either way he actually made the trip which is more than a most peeps here can say. And no I am not talking about the posters but rather the lurkers.

Perhaps it's more of an American thing. Ignorance breeds fear right?