why are Russian/Ukrainian women so greedy and materialistic??My thoughts on RW u

[Ranetka]

Kievstar, you need to re-read my original post.  I used 7 sentances to describe what I feel is greedy.  and the last woman I dated in Ukraine was very happy with our restaurant choices.  one time I wanted to take her to an Italian restaurant, and she refused, saying that it was too expensive.  so we went to our favorite restaurant where the bill was usually about $50 to $60 dollars.  so there are women who like a guy for who his personality is, and not just that he can spend X amount of dollars on a date.  and yes, she actually cooked for me on our first meeting which was really sweet of her.  

So you should have stayed with this woman. If frugality and homeliness are improtant to you then do not chase flashy types who like having a good time. And if you do then do not complain. It's your money you keep them safe, do not expect someone else to do it for you.

[Blues Fairy]

Blues Fairy, I am not, and I do not keep running into shallow greedy type of girls.  I have been very fortunate and careful in my choices.  could it happen in the future??  maybe, maybe not.  my point; and my argument is about the misuse of the word "greedy" by some RW, and the fact that I believe they need to look in the mirror before they use that word!!

First off, you didn't use the word "some" in your initial post or its title.  Second, why then all this whining about "some" RW misusing the word if you don't run into them?  Of course a greedy person will label YOU greedy instead of admitting her greediness; what's the point accusing her of doing so?  Or, for that matter, generalizing that ALL RW/UW are greedy, as was implied in your initial post?  What are you trying to achieve, exactly?

[brad5959]

Kievstar, I totally agree with you that an american man should not rub it in the ladys face about his house his car his job etc, and than be cheap on a first date.  I think he should ask her questions about what she wants in a relationship with a man, and mostly listen to her ideas, etc.  I don't see anything wrong with a first date being just coffee and sweet rolls, or a glass of wine, or a reasonably priced lunch.  the more expensive lunches and dinners can come later if they decide to continue dating.

[brad5959]

sjg-uk, thank you for your excellent post.  I will look at the website that you mentioned.  thanks again.

[kievstar]

I think RW understand the word greedy.  I will say I did not understand it all my first time to Ukraine or next couple of trips.  In fact I was a greedy bastard myself.  

I even told my mother about how the word greedy is different in Ukraine than USA.  She than corrected me and said no it is the same except most men like you have no clue until a woman explains it to you.  

[mialia]

Kievstar, I totally agree with you that an american man should not rub it in the ladys face about his house his car his job etc, and than be cheap on a first date.  I think he should ask her questions about what she wants in a relationship with a man, and mostly listen to her ideas, etc.  I don't see anything wrong with a first date being just coffee and sweet rolls, or a glass of wine, or a reasonably priced lunch.  the more expensive lunches and dinners can come later if they decide to continue dating.

now you are sounding reasonable and mature

[Ade]

Kievstar, I totally agree with you that an american man should not rub it in the ladys face about his house his car his job etc, and than be cheap on a first date.  I think he should ask her questions about what she wants in a relationship with a man, and mostly listen to her ideas, etc.  I don't see anything wrong with a first date being just coffee and sweet rolls, or a glass of wine, or a reasonably priced lunch.  the more expensive lunches and dinners can come later if they decide to continue dating.

Any woman worth dating is not going to demand a fancy dinner date. But IMO, the least a man can do for a woman that's agreed to meet him is to treat her to something nice. Your problem I think is that you've grouped all women together that say that they aren't interested in "greedy" men. As has been pointed out to you, it usually mean stingy tight wads and this itself is very subjective; a daughter of an oligarch will probably think you're tight if you don't buy her a diamond necklace on the first date but a normal woman will think tea and cake is fine for the first date unless of course you asked her to split the bill.

[brad5959]

Mialia,

I was completely joking with you about the full body massage.  that came later in our relationship.  I am still in touch with her.

also, I agree with you that it's a good idea to try and find out, does she like cooking, does she prefer to only go out for dinner, etc.  I always ask those type of questions and it seems to be paying off in meeting the right type of woman for me.  the down to earth type of woman I like makes me want to be generous.  the gold digger type totally turns me off and I won't go near them.

so as far as lemonade, I have only been having the type with plenty of sugar in it!!

[brad5959]

Aloe,

yes I know the russian translation is "stingy".  and if you read my original post, you will see that I actually did use the word "stingy" interchageably with "greedy".  but my point is that we are mostly americans here, and we speak mostly english.  and therefore the RW should learn the proper meaning of the word in english, which is not stingy.  and many american men are not really stingy either, they are frugal and prudent, in that they believe in planning for the future (planning for "a rainy day").

[Aloe]

Aloe,

yes I know the russian translation is "stingy".  and if you read my original post, you will see that I actually did use the word "stingy" interchageably with "greedy".  but my point is that we are mostly americans here, and we speak mostly english.  and therefore the RW should learn the proper meaning of the word in english, which is not stingy.  and many american men are not really stingy either, they are frugal and prudent, in that they believe in planning for the future (planning for "a rainy day").

They do not know they interpret the word differently, how should they know? How can you try to learn something, if you dont know that the version you know is wrong? And an AM usually doesnt know she is interpreting the word differently or doesnt bother to tell. Nobody told me, i read about it by accident.

[Aloe]

Aloe,

yes I know the russian translation is "stingy".  and if you read my original post, you will see that I actually did use the word "stingy" interchageably with "greedy".  but my point is that we are mostly americans here, and we speak mostly english.  and therefore the RW should learn the proper meaning of the word in english, which is not stingy.  and many american men are not really stingy either, they are frugal and prudent, in that they believe in planning for the future (planning for "a rainy day").

Besides, whats all this about "she should this and she should that" ? She doesnt owe anyone anything, maybe this RW will marry someone from a different country. She doesnt owe you nothing to learn english the way you know and like it. Im sure there are dozens of thousands of RW married and living in non-english speaking countries.

[kievstar]

Brad, the word is not different between USA and Ukraine. 

[groovlstk]

Aloe,

yes I know the russian translation is "stingy".  and if you read my original post, you will see that I actually did use the word "stingy" interchageably with "greedy".  but my point is that we are mostly americans here, and we speak mostly english.  and therefore the RW should learn the proper meaning of the word in english, which is not stingy.  and many american men are not really stingy either, they are frugal and prudent, in that they believe in planning for the future (planning for "a rainy day").

You are not grasping the meaning of this word, fundamentally. It has nothing to do with dropping $500 in a first date and everything to do with this poim from Walt Whitman that you probably snoozed through in high school English class:

Behold! I do not give lectures, or a little charity;   
When I give, I give myself

[mialia]

Kievstar, I totally agree with you that an American man should not rub it in the ladys face about his house his car his job etc, and than be cheap on a first date.  I think he should ask her questions about what she wants in a relationship with a man, and mostly listen to her ideas, etc.  I don't see anything wrong with a first date being just coffee and sweet rolls, or a glass of wine, or a reasonably priced lunch.  the more expensive lunches and dinners can come later if they decide to continue dating.

here is the story i had:

a guy came to meet me (not from USA, but from Europe), before to come he asked (i didn't ask) what would i like him to bring me as a present? well, i mentioned that it would be nice of him to bring me a face cream, from Duty Free shop, as there is a less chance to get a fake one there (its very common in Ukraine, i mean even the most expensive shops may sell fake cosmetics). this cream is not the most expensive one, somewhere above the middle. Anyway... when we met - i saw a very handsome guy, wearing D&G, Armani and so on, he took me to the nice restaurant, because this is kind of place he used to go to, but....  when we got to his place, to pick up my cream, which he gave me after he showed me the pictures of his 3 cars and 2 houses and horses and yacht, after he showed me on google how famous he is in his country....  then he took out my present and i saw the most cheap cream from all that you can get in Duty Free, and he said that my cream was out of sale, which is absolutely impossible!!!!!!  so, how else i can call this man if not with the word "stingy'????? ))) it was my first intention to think of him this way ))).  its like he got the best things for himself and for me the cheapest ones are enough? very impolite, IMHO especially if it was him, who offered to bring me something .  but then i understood what happenned. he wasn't stingy, he was thinking differently....
the most funny thing is, when i told him about the way i feel about this "present" he said he took the same trademark as he is using, and when i went to the bathroom i saw that its true .  so, he didn't mean to humiliate me, we simply had a different opinions on where money should be spent. for him it was OK to spend it on restaurant, but not OK on cosmetics.

so, we all are different, we all are not mind-readers and the same thing may have a different level of value for each of us, but... we all have right to be the way we are without being blamed for who we are.....

[brad5959]

Milia,

well, he sounds like he was wealthy.  and I really agree with you that a wealthy man should be generous.  it seems to me that he should have purchased you exactly what you wanted.  it was not going to hurt his pocket book.

even I, being on an average or smaller than average US income, would buy a lady some face cream--exactly the one she wanted if I could.  I had a girlfriend from Thailand at one time.  she only liked Shiseido, which was pretty expensive.  but I knew it made her happy, so that is the one I got for her.  I really didn't mind--she was a great cook, and much much more.  so like you say, it all depends on of the two people are doing their best to make each other happy.

[Shadow]

brad this topic is just hilarious.

I guess I could say that all Americans are cruel, heartless and overweight fools, except the ones I have met in real life and on this forum. How do I know ? From the stories told by others. 

As many have noticed, it all depends on what you seek for and how you present yourself.
But there is one thing that should be clear. If you fly half way around the world and then can not spend $50 on a meal, you are doing something wrong and you will be seen as stingy, even if you are being frugal. Prudent you would not be, as it would hardly be prudent to spend that much on a date when you can not afford a meal because of it.

[BillyB]

I seek a class of women who are down to earth and appreciate the value of money

If she likes you, she will respect your money. The average date with RW I have in America cost me $30 for dinner. Good RW don't milk their friends and if they like you, they won't milk you. I let the RW I date choose the place to eat most of the time and one even brings coupons to help out.

Unfortunately many Western men going to the FSU is getting involved with women who are accustomed to hang out with another crowd and lifestyle.

I dated RW in Ukraine and 2 of them took me to Ukrainian kitchens which they tell me has good food at much better prices than restaurants.

Most RW don't want a man to be greedy in the sense that he will hold the money only for himself. Many want a man to love her enough that he would be willing to spend his every dollar on her which is a romantic gesture in their minds. Many women with that attitude doesn't deserve it but some are wise enough to understand their man will do that for her but stop him from going bankrupt and encourage him to manage his money wisely.

[GregfromGa]

If she likes you, she will respect your money. The average date with RW I have in America cost me $30 for dinner. Good RW don't milk their friends and if they like you, they won't milk you. I let the RW I date choose the place to eat most of the time and one even brings coupons to help out.

Unfortunately many Western men going to the FSU is getting involved with women who are accustomed to hang out with another crowd and lifestyle.

I dated RW in Ukraine and 2 of them took me to Ukrainian kitchens which they tell me has good food at much better prices than restaurants.

Most RW don't want a man to be greedy in the sense that he will hold the money only for himself. Many want a man to love her enough that he would be willing to spend his every dollar on her which is a romantic gesture in their minds. Many women with that attitude doesn't deserve it but some are wise enough to understand their man will do that for her but stop him from going bankrupt and encourage him to manage his money wisely.

Good advice in this post. And dead on regarding milking a date.

[kievstar]

 
I also find restaurants in USA (not New York) to be a lot cheaper than Kiev.  You can eat and drink like a pig in the USA for a fraction of the cost in city center Kiev. 

[Lily]

Brad,

First of all, sorry for your experience with that type of women. Again, you just happened to come across this particular type of women. There are far better women in the country, but you just had less than good luck with your dates.

The concept of being frugal is really different in the FSU countries from what you are used to in the West. Some Russians believe that spending lots of money is a sort of virtue, so some may indeed expect this behavior from the men who try to get their attention. Some think that the more a man has invested in a woman, the better are chances that he is serious towards her. I have heard Russian women complaining that their date is not willing to spend money on them, therefore he might not be interested in them.

[SomeGuy]

Wow.  

I thought that russian women are supposed to be so educated and intelligent.

Many are.  

if that is the case, than why can't they comprehend the proper meaning of the word??  and why do they so often misuse and abuse the word, in particular in reference to western men??

Should they also magically understand everyone else's culture as well, while it seems to be something you don't wish to do?
Do you then speak fluent Russian, know what putting an empty bottle on a table means, and thousands of other things Russian?  No?  I thought Western Men were supposed to be educated and intelligent.  Hmm.  

It sounds like you were taken for a ride, and had a bad experience.  Maybe a really bad one, which if so, I'm sorry for.  An inter-cultural relationship is generally seen as being more difficult in many ways than a same culture relationship, not easier, and can take some patience and understanding from both sides, not only one.  Blaming an entire culture for not understanding your meaning of a foreign word sort of speaks for itself.  

You then said

I seek a class of women who are down to earth and appreciate the value of money--not just for a first dinner date, but respect for someone who travels 8,000 miles to go to meet them.  and I do believe that there are respectful and careful russian/ukrainian women.  

I am just tired of the ones who completely misuse the word "greedy".  so I am just pointing out that the tables can easily be turned with regards to that word, and many of these women should just look in the mirror to see a physical manifestation of the word.

I think Faux Paux said it well

The class of women you seek is directly related to the class of woman you find

If you are using money or status as "bait," you will catch someone interested in that.  
If not, but that's been your experience, you're doing something wrong.  Maybe you aren't asking some important questions that you should be, or don't know a woman nearly as well as you believe you do, before meeting?  If your intent is to possibly meet someone that would result in her moving to your country, is it not your responsibility to educate such a woman, so if things went forward, she was not expecting a soap opera lifestyle, only whatever your normal life may be?  

after he was plied with letters from his sweetheart or sweethearts, about how they are looking for their "beloved" man, their "favorite" man, their "real" man, etc etc. blah blah blah, they ought to have the respect and decency to meet him on a first date for just coffee, a glass of wine, or a reasonably priced lunch or dinner.

AND

I believe if she is truly interested in the man, as she stated in her dozens of letters, than he should buy her some groceries and let her cook him a nice dinner, maybe with candle light, and than give him a full body massage after dinner to help him relax from his 22 hours of combined flight time to go and visit the wonderful, special, educated, intelligent, romantic, passionate, honest, faithful russian/ukrainian woman!!

Others gave very good examples of greediness, and Blues Fairy gave an interesting comment on how some woman may act: if someone is stupid, why not take advantage of it?  Change what you're doing, or the women you're meeting, maybe both, or suck it up and stop anything you're really not comfortable with, preferably before it happens, at the very least.  

Many can assure you, with examples, that far from all Russian women are greedy, by any definition, or materialistic.  Some are, just like some Western Women are.  In some cases, they also may not have a good understanding of your finances or everyday life, and may be making some incorrect assumptions.  Whose fault would that be, really?  Good communication can be hard, but someone's got to do it.

I'm also sure that many can give examples as relates to your last quoted paragraph, which might even include her buying groceries in advance after being 'told' not to, or walking into a room prepared by her in advance, lit with dozens of candles.  Somehow I forgot what we ate that day and night, I was just very happy to be home.  It is a two way street, and I've done the same for her.  I can't remember a single time she ever asked for something inappropriate, while I can recall several times that she spent her last $ on something for us, stopped us from going out to eat entirely.  

I'm sorry if you met with the results of some poor choices.  It can suck to see a fantasy go down the tubes, if that's what happened, but I wouldn't put the blame where you have, or come to the conclusion that you have.

[Doll]

and yes, she actually cooked for me on our first meeting which was really sweet of her. 

Do AW cook on the first date?
How many sets of rule are we talking of? Local dating, dating abroad, dating  the woman(man) from another culture, etc.

[Gator]

Brad,

Never forget that you are interacting with a different culture.  A RW’s perspective and optimism differ from what you have experienced with AW.   

Greedy is an important and complicated concept to RW.  You are approaching it simplistically. 

RW want a man who, among other qualities, will take care of his family. In contrast, RW view greedy actions as indicative of a man who will always place himself first.  Read Groovlstk’s post (#37 above) for what it takes to not be greedy.  [I guess Groovlstk was right because you ignored him.]

[Faux Pas]

Do AW cook on the first date?
How many sets of rule are we talking of? Local dating, dating abroad, dating  the woman(man) from another culture, etc.

Quite often. Many of your more traditional AW still believe the way to a man's heart is through his stomach. Of course many of your feminazis believe the same thing but with a knife 

[Seeker]

Quite often. Many of your more traditional AW still believe the way to a man's heart is through his stomach. Of course many of your feminazis believe the same thing but with a knife 

Ouch...