why are Russian/Ukrainian women so greedy and materialistic??My thoughts on RW u

[Gator]

....it seems to me that well educated UW or RW with good careers, are still far more traditional than american women.  it seems that most Ukrainian or Russian women have more respect towards men than many american women have. 

Not my recent experience with a couple of AW in their upper 40s.  So perhaps my sample size is too small.   How many UW/RW do you know well enough to form such an opinion?

[Ranetka]

Brad,

I am curious, how did you find these women? What are the criteria that you use when looking? Again, I never took my wife to a fancy restaurant when dating and she never expected it or demanded it either. If anything, she has taught me much about frugality, and yes Ranetka she is extremely attractive as well as frugal. So, I must wonder what it is that you are doing that is leading you to the wrong kind of women.

Misha

I never implied your wife was not. Flashy or homely, frugal or a spender, both types can be pretty or not.

[Daveman]

Brad, who said I went to prison for a crime.  I have been inside one.  Also been inside prisons in Mexico and Brazil. 

I have a clean criminal background.   

Me too. I dust and polish mine regularly.  :evil:

+2 for experiencing the Great Bewilderment

[BC]

Daveman,

it seems to me that well educated UW or RW with good careers, are still far more traditional than american women.  it seems that most Ukrainian or Russian women have more respect towards men than many american women have. 

You haven't met our daughter  yet.. LOL

Things do change from generation to generation.  The 'traditional' wife RW or otherwise is almost ready for retirement.

[brad5959]

Greedy is the same in USA and Ukraine. 

The problem is sometimes American men put the amount of money they spend on a woman in correlation to how much attention the woman gives them.  For example Brad talks about nicer dinners down the road but not first date.  Basically saying I will spend more if you show more.  If they do not like the woman after first date they spent little.  More money in the bank and not wasted.  I saw a high percentage of Foreign men behave this way in Kiev.  This does not go over well with women in any country but does go well with hookers.

you are simply wrong.  the definition of greedy in Russia/Ukraine is being stingy, while the definition of greed or being greedy in the USA is pretty much the opposite.  for example, Russian Multi-Billionaire Berezhovsky, now exiled to Great Britain, is a greedy man.

and, "it's hard for the other animals on the farm to get any food, when the pig has all four hooves in the trough".

[Aloe]

the definition of greedy in Russia/Ukraine is being stingy

What a bizarre statement. Same as saying that definition of russian pink in english is blue. Those are two different words. Greedy is simply translated wrong most of the time, that's all.

[Aloe]

if you translate pink as "blue", that doesnt mean that in english pink is actually blue, it just means that its translated wrong

[Shadow]

What a bizarre statement. Same as saying that definition of russian pink in english is blue. Those are two different words. Greedy is simply translated wrong most of the time, that's all.

What is the colour gay men are associated with in Russia and in English ?  

[Aloe]

The definition of greedy in russian is greedy, and stingy is stingy, my point is that exact specific word "greedy" is usually translated with the wrong meaning (stingy), instead of the one suitable for it.

[kievstar]

Brad, when you copy my quotes please do not include your words with it. I do not want people to confuse me with your lack of understanding.  Thanks 

[brad5959]

Kievstar,

I did not intend for your quote to run into my words.  I don't know how that happened.  as for my lack of understanding, that is your opinion.  your opinion is formed by your apparently much higher income than mine (very low) and also by your assets.  I read in another post where you said you had one million US in cash or more.

[kievstar]

Brad, income does not make someone smarter than another or better.  1% of the USA population over 20 years old has more than 1 million in net worth.  Many of the greatest inventions in life were by people who never had any money.

[brad5959]

Kievstar,
continued...

what I was going to say is that based on my income (very low), I was very generous.  I spent every last penny that I had on the woman I was visiting, plus some (I borrowed money).  I paid for everything; food, taxis, busses, cell cards for both of us, cafe's, restaurants, beauty supplies for her, and of course presents for her and her mother.  it does not change the fact that some UW/RW would call me "greedy", because they would want more than I could provide.  this is a growing segment of the female population in Ukraine.  they do not seem to distinguish your generosity in relation to your income.  it is all relevant.  for example, in a previous post JR mentioned his ex wanted a pair of shoes which were five times over budget, and that if he bought those shoes, they would not have money for food at the end of the month.  according to JR she responded by taking off her wedding ring and calling him "greedy".  now are you going to tell me that you think her definition of greedy is the same as in the USA?  are you going to tell me that she was correct to call him "greedy"?  it is obviously a misuse of the word, and I think this occurs frequently with some RW/UW. 

[Shadow]

Kievstar,
continued...

what I was going to say is that based on my income (very low), I was very generous.  I spent every last penny that I had on the woman I was visiting, plus some (I borrowed money).  I paid for everything; food, taxis, busses, cell cards for both of us, cafe's, restaurants, beauty supplies for her, and of course presents for her and her mother.  it does not change the fact that some UW/RW would call me "greedy", because they would want more than I could provide.  this is a growing segment of the female population in Ukraine.  they do not seem to distinguish your generosity in relation to your income.  it is all relevant.  for example, in a previous post JR mentioned his ex wanted a pair of shoes which were five times over budget, and that if he bought those shoes, they would not have money for food at the end of the month.  according to JR she responded by taking off her wedding ring and calling him "greedy".  now are you going to tell me that you think her definition of greedy is the same as in the USA?  are you going to tell me that she was correct to call him "greedy"?  it is obviously a misuse of the word, and I think this occurs frequently with some RW/UW. 

You are admitting to be making a capital mistake here. Putting yourself in debt over a date (as a first visit is nothing more than that) means you are not capable of planning a future. As RW/UW will never understand such behaviour they will believe that you have more money as you say, thus being stingy/greedy.

[Misha]

it does not change the fact that some UW/RW would call me "greedy", because they would want more than I could provide.  this is a growing segment of the female population in Ukraine.  they do not seem to distinguish your generosity in relation to your income. 

Can you answer these questions:

1. Are these real women who were calling you "greedy," women you met in person, or are they hypothetical women that you have never met that you believe would call you greedy?
2. If they were real women, how did you meet them? What were you selection criteria when looking for a woman to meet for a date/relationship?

[brad5959]

You are admitting to be making a capital mistake here. Putting yourself in debt over a date (as a first visit is nothing more than that) means you are not capable of planning a future. As RW/UW will never understand such behaviour they will believe that you have more money as you say, thus being stingy/greedy.

WTF!!  so now I am greedy because I was first generous and spent all of my money??  don't worry about my ability to plan for the future.  I am making money as we speak.  don't russian women say go out and make some more money??  your logic is back ass wards. 

[Shadow]

WTF!!  so now I am greedy because I was first generous and spent all of my money??  don't worry about my ability to plan for the future.  I am making money as we speak.  don't russian women say go out and make some more money??  your logic is back ass wards. 

Its not my logic, it is how a cash society looks at making debts for going on a date or a holiday.
If you spent all your money on just a date trip, how do you expect to cover the cost of regular visits to meet her, the cost of bringing her over and the cost of starting a family, including regular trips back ?
You may think you were generous in spending more than you have, but the other side will think you were foolish. As that would be the end of the line since no woman would marry a fool, they might decide that instead of foolish you are greedy and are just making a story to hide the truth. Every American has to be rich, they know this from the TV and movies.

[brad5959]

Shadow:
"Every American has to be rich, they know this from the TV and movies".

Aha!!!  now you are onto something.  and any fool knows that Americans use credit.  it is the American way of life. 

[brad5959]

Can you answer these questions:

1. Are these real women who were calling you "greedy," women you met in person, or are they hypothetical women that you have never met that you believe would call you greedy?
2. If they were real women, how did you meet them? What were you selection criteria when looking for a woman to meet for a date/relationship?

they could be both.  look at Vita of Elena's Models, ID 7775350.  her entire statement about herself is:  "I don't like greedy people".  now please tell me, what is she really saying??  maybe that she is a spoiled princess; greedy and materialistic?  maybe that she doesn't really give a damn about you, all that she really cares about is your money, and that no matter how much you have, it won't be enough, because as soon as she spends it, or you get tired of her selfish self centered habits and cut her off, she will be gone?  thank god she spells it out so clearly so that you can avoid her like the plague!!

[Misha]

they could be both

You are not very good at answering direct questions with a precise answer. I don't understand the need to philosophize, but that may be me.

If a woman in a profile says that she does not like "greedy" men, ignore her, more on. That is what I did. If I had a date with a woman and I realized that we were not a good match, I moved on. So, tell me, did the woman that you met call you greedy? Why did you choose this woman and not another?

[Gator]

look at Vita of Elena's Models, ID 7775350.  her entire statement about herself is:  "I don't like greedy people".  now please tell me, what is she really saying??  maybe that she is a spoiled princess; greedy and materialistic?  maybe that she doesn't really give a damn about you, all that she really cares about is your money, and that no matter how much you have, it won't be enough, because as soon as she spends it, or you get tired of her selfish self centered habits and cut her off, she will be gone?  thank god she spells it out so clearly so that you can avoid her like the plague!!

I certainly would avoid Vita, but not for her statement about greedy people.  Every RW will admit to not liking greedy people.

Brad, you started this as a question to Russian ladies.  Some RW answered, yet you choose to not accept their answer (e. g., Aloe's comment about greedy and stingy being two different concepts).

Groovlstk and I tried to explain the concept in a philosophical sense, and you ignored us too.

You somehow confused Kievstar's lucid response, and then displayed a chip on your shoulder about your income vs. his.

This makes it difficult to have a reasoned discussion.

[brad5959]

Gator,

I did not ignore your response or Groovistk.  in fact I have read each response very carefully.  just because I do not make a repost to every response does not mean I have not read it or considered it very carefully.

Walt Whitman quote from Groovistk:
Behold! I do not give lectures, or a little charity;   
When I give, I give myself

I take that to mean that I should give sincerely of myself all that I can give, which is what I have done.

many have made the point, including Kievstar, that generosity should be measured in relation to the ability to be generous--which I have also argued for and stated.

what I am arguing is that there are a growing number of RW/UW who are not happy with how much you can give them;  they will always want more and more until you are bankrupt.  than they move on to their next victim like a vampire.  who is greedy, the victim or the vampire?

I do not have any chip on my shoulder whatsoever regarding Kievstars income/wealth.  I admire successful people.  they are usually successful due to hard work and intelligence.  I also appreciate his statement acknowledging that many poor people have made important inventions.  it gives me hope that my dream of inventing or discovering something important might come true.

I don't agree with RW perception about the meaning of greed, or Kievstar's opinion that greed in Ukraine has the same definition in the USA.  I don't need to agree with some here, I can draw my own conclusions. 

that does not mean that it is difficult to have a rational discussion.  everybody's opinion is welcome, but unlike the bolsheviks we are not going to have a forced agreement on this issue.

I have made sufficient arguments in my opinion to prove my point.  Misha himself has agreed with me that the ones who complain about a man being greedy, are in all likelihood the ones who are greedy themselves.  I stay away from women who are honest that they want a high level of money.  it's the ones who hide their true intentions that make it difficult to wade through the minefield.

[Shadow]

Shadow:
"Every American has to be rich, they know this from the TV and movies".

Aha!!!  now you are onto something.  and any fool knows that Americans use credit.  it is the American way of life. 

Using credit is relatively new to Russia and Ukraine, mostly because their income just does not allow repayment. And while the big cars, houses and meals are flashed, the burden of credit is usually not shown, which is why the perception is different.
In the USA if you tell people you own a house, there is a large chance it is actually the bank owning it and allowing you to stay while you pay your mortgage.
In the FSU if you own a house there is a large chance you own it, without any credit.

As for recognizing women who hide their tendency to want more and more, it is not very hard and can be seen in the correspondence. Constant hinting at their poor life gives it away.

[brad5959]

Using credit is relatively new to Russia and Ukraine, mostly because their income just does not allow repayment. And while the big cars, houses and meals are flashed, the burden of credit is usually not shown, which is why the perception is different.
In the USA if you tell people you own a house, there is a large chance it is actually the bank owning it and allowing you to stay while you pay your mortgage.
In the FSU if you own a house there is a large chance you own it, without any credit.

As for recognizing women who hide their tendency to want more and more, it is not very hard and can be seen in the correspondence. Constant hinting at their poor life gives it away.

thank you, excellent post!!

[Gylden]

Shadow:
"Every American has to be rich, they know this from the TV and movies".

Aha!!!  now you are onto something.  and any fool knows that Americans use credit.  it is the American way of life. 

Actually, I would tend to say many Americans abuse credit, but it has become a "western" way!  I.E. the current world financial situation.

I must echo Shadow about FSU people, they don't grasp the credit system so quickly.