why are Russian/Ukrainian women so greedy and materialistic??My thoughts on RW u

[Fashionista]

I do understand what it means to put an empty bottle on the table

Here is a chance to learn something, what does it mean? I have no slightest idea. Now I gotta check how fluent my Russian is 

[Jumper]

Brad-
for what its worth-
about the empty bottle tradition/superstition,
 
Many UW/RW might find that old superstition more silly than you would,
and would be embarrassed, or worse,  if you put an empty bottle anywhere else but on the table at a cafe or restaurant  

just curious, did  research the original "whys" of that old "tradition"?
or just hear about it ?

( for example i know a few men drinking a lot of beer might jokingly practice it.. but not many RW)

********

you have a large ukrainian community nearby?
that's good as there will be some markets/ stores where she can find comfort foods


what large city do you live near?


***************

The way people view her and treat her will depend on the quality of the man she married.

you can't be that naive billyb.

Yes, the way her husbands family and friends react to her, will be affected by this,,
and of course this is important..


but the way "people" in general in a small town treat her, will be much more decided by those peoples,  level of education ,and their  experience and  openess to  foreigners.


That can range from truly appalling comments and actions ., to complete acceptance ,friendliness and helpfulness.
 
In some  small towns she would welcomed by most..
in others be the center of gossip, and yes ridicule.

her husbands actiions and character can help certainly..
but if living in an area unaccepting of foreign people,her day t day interaction IS indeed going to be a quite different experience than if she lived in areas of toronto, chicago , NYC,, seattle..etc.
 
 A large city,or metro area,  with a large degree of cultural diversity, is an area she would see the least of this, and that has very little to do with the character of her husband.

It  sounds like brad is from such an area, or near to it,, so likely would not be an issue.

[kievstar]

AJ, I see people put the empty bottle on the floor all the time and only one person pours the bottle.  You probably have not been in Ukraine lately or never lived there.  Also not just a woman thing.  Men do it as well in Ukraine. 

[Boethius]

This is not an old superstition, at least, not in Ukraine.  It arose there from Soviet drinking culture.  My husband's family, on both sides, never had an issue with empty bottles, but they weren't big drinkers.  Or superstitious.

[Faux Pas]

This is not an old superstition, at least, not in Ukraine.  It arose there from Soviet drinking culture.  My husband's family, on both sides, never had an issue with empty bottles, but they weren't big drinkers.  Or superstitious.

I've had the empty bottle discussion with my wife who, is not very superstitious at all. She doesn't let one sit on the table very often but, she explains it as more about bad manners than superstition to keep an empty on the table

[OlgaH]

There were many studies on Slavic folk customs, signs, superstitions and so on.
Women never left empty uncovered dishes, jars and pots on the table, and usually kept them upside down so the evil spirits would not find a place.
The table was a symbol of home altar, wellbeing and "intermediary" between this world and the other world, therefore many superstitions connects with table. Putting the keys on the table means you risk your home wellbeing, you give the keys to the unknown forces. It is better to keep your table covered. Don't put your hat on the table and don't sit on the table as you are not only disturbing the other world but also you expose yourself to mysterious forces.  Empty jars, pots and bottle on the table will bring only emptiness to your home.

[Boethius]

I've had the empty bottle discussion with my wife who, is not very superstitious at all. She doesn't let one sit on the table very often but, she explains it as more about bad manners than superstition to keep an empty on the table

Yes, that makes more sense. 

Neither of my husband's grandparents were peasants.  They never had bottles on their tables at all.  Wine was placed in a decanter, hard liquor in small bottles, water, other than mineral water, in pitchers.   But, they served liquor rarely, only to guests.  This was the same in my grandparents' home.  But, empty mineral water bottles meant nothing.

Olga, I know of many Ukrainian traditions and superstitions.  My Grandmother, God rest her soul, was extremely superstitious.  I could write a foot long list of all the "don'ts" tied to her superstitions.  Yet, she never had an issue with empty bottles or bowls, other than from a cleanliness/order perspective.

[OlgaH]

Olga, I know of many Ukrainian traditions and superstitions.  My Grandmother, God rest her soul, was extremely superstitious.  I could write a foot long list of all the "don'ts" tied to her superstitions.  Yet, she never had an issue with empty bottles or bowls, other than from a cleanliness/order perspective.

That's fine. When I was a child visiting our relatives in Ukraine the old babushka never kept even empty vase on the table. So what. And I also can write a foot long (if not longer) list of superstitions that take roots in Slavic mythology.

[Boethius]

Just saying, it's not an old Ukrainian superstition.

[OlgaH]

Just saying, it's not an old Ukrainian superstition.

I would not be so sure especially when Slavic nations share so many things in common including mythology. I guess you can read Ukrainian

Не залишай порожню пляшку на столі  - прикмета що буде безгрошів'я.

http://vsiprikmeti.blogspot.com/2010/03/blog-post.html

[Boethius]

A blog doesn't prove it's a long standing superstition, Olga.

There are many commonalities throughout Europe to most superstitions, beyond pan-Slavic mythologies.  But, I've been in villages from the Cherkasy to Lviv oblasts, and no one put empty bottles on the floor, or viewed an empty bottle as some sort of omen of bad luck.

[OlgaH]

A blog doesn't prove it's a long standing superstition, Olga.

It just says that long standing superstition repeated from mouth to mouth through the centuries.

There are many commonalities throughout Europe to most superstitions, beyond pan-Slavic mythologies.  But, I've been in villages from the Cherkasy to Lviv oblasts, and no one put empty bottles on the floor, or viewed an empty bottle as some sort of omen of bad luck.

Interaction between cultures is a normal phenomenon.
While you did not see something in some places it actually doesn't mean you can not find it in other places. 

[Boethius]

While you did not see something in some places it actually doesn't mean you can not find it in other places.

True, however, my point was it's not a long standing Ukrainian superstition.  Others are.   For example, I have never met Ukrainian who would whistle in the house.

[OlgaH]

True, however, my point was it's not a long standing Ukrainian superstition.  Others are.   For example, I have never met Ukrainian who would whistle in the house.

"do not whistle in the house" is not only a long standing Ukrainian superstition. As you know (I suppose you know)  there not any significant difference between Ukrainian and Russian mythology including btw superstitions regarding empty containers 

[Daveman]

I was told about the empty bottle superstition in both Omsk and Donetsk (the Donetsk lady is originally from a very small town near the Romanian border, so perhaps that has something to do with it). 

also almost had my arm amputated when handing a mobile phone through the doorway..ack... after several visits to a chiropractor and generous application of cabbage leaves, I did regain the use of the arm... not supposed to pass anything from outside in or inside out, or kiss, or shake hands, and I would surmise sex in the doorway would be entirely out of the question (unless you were equally balanced half in/out ... don't visualize that one too much)

[ECOCKS]

I never met anyone in Ukraine who cared about this.

[Daveman]

I never met anyone in Ukraine who cared about this.

not even if the neighbors were watching?

 

[OlgaH]

also almost had my arm amputated when handing a mobile phone through the doorway..ack... after several visits to a chiropractor and generous application of cabbage leaves, I did regain the use of the arm... not supposed to pass anything from outside in or inside out, or kiss, or shake hands, and I would surmise sex in the doorway would be entirely out of the question (unless you were equally balanced half in/out ... don't visualize that one too much)

Yep, the superstitions regarding the doorway also have their roots in mythology. The doorway is a border between this world and the other world, between living and dead, and the evil spirits just wait for a moment to get through. Some amulets were hung near or above the doorway for protecting from evil spirits. But the doorway was also used in the rituals to rid of bad habits and illness. Witches used to put spelled needles under the doorway for harm.  

[SANDRO43]

There were many studies on Slavic folk customs, signs, superstitions and so on...The table was a symbol of home altar, wellbeing and "intermediary" between this world and the other world

The Slavic Stargate :

[OlgaH]

The Slavic Stargate :

Yes, Sandro something like that 

[ECOCKS]

not even if the neighbors were watching?

 

I didn't even see your post Dave, I was responding on the point of placing empty bottles on the table.

[Faux Pas]

The Slavic Stargate :

[Manny]

I believe if she is truly interested in the man, as she stated in her dozens of letters, than he should buy her some groceries and let her cook him a nice dinner,

Reading too many agencies tends to make one believe they can get a wife from the fifties. C'mon Brad..... you are too greedy to spend $100 on a date and expect the woman to fall all over you like a cheap coat dispensing massages because you bought her a potato?

Men wonder why RW call them greedy. 

[Shadow]

Reading too many agencies tends to make one believe they can get a wife from the fifties. C'mon Brad..... you are too greedy to spend $100 on a date and expect the woman to fall all over you like a cheap coat dispensing massages because you bought her a potato?

Men wonder why RW call them greedy. 

Nothing wrong with buying groceries for dinner. Of course for a FSU style rabbit dinner you need 20 live rabbits, a cabbage and some carrots.
A good cook never wastes anything so the rabbits skin will turn in to a coat.

[Jumper]

AJ, I see people put the empty bottle on the floor all the time and only one person pours the bottle.  You probably have not been in Ukraine lately or never lived there.  Also not just a woman thing.  Men do it as well in Ukraine. 

kievstar..
(maybe read ed's  post? and for qualifier he has lived there as long, or longer, than yourself
-doesn't mean right or wrong - just shows the different experiencees people have?)

i certainly know the superstition exists, and was married to  a Ukrainian for many years. 
(that person did not practice this though,found it impolite and silly,although her mother did practice it  at home)
 

Actually I am just back from Ukraine.
 
and in two weeks time not once in any restaurant( which is what i was specifically referring to in my post)
did i see anyone ,man or woman, place any bottle on the floor.
in kiev ,nikolaev or yalta, and this ranged from cafe to nice restaurant..
and the specific UW i was visting would find it odd at best if a man did so at a cafe or restaurant.

so i'll stand by my advice to  brad -

that if he is out to dinner with  a nice lady,
 he need not  worry of this *slavic superstition* much.


and that if he placed an empty bottle on the floor,out of some implied cultural "understanding"?

 it would just as likely be viewed by her as weird,
rather than  normal...

which was my whole point!



Of course you are welcome to advise him to place any empty bottle, on the floor,
 regardless of restaurant,co=fae ,home ,or company present...


This forum often seems to go after the details of any given topic,
 , instead of just giving the OP advise they can use.


in that vein,,
you did certainly live there a long time ..with a lot of experince..

how many times in one of kievs nicer establishments did you place an empty bottle on the floor?

a.never?
b.sometimes?
c.usually?
d.only with the guys drinking piva or vodka.
e.only the wine bottle when having a nice dinner with a lady and the waiter wasn't attentive

how about in a cafe?


how would you advise brad to *act* in the situation ?


it's certainly no big deal,
but he has read about the superstition,
so in the dining situation for the first time, would probably find it interesting the proper etiquette for the specific culture right?


isn't that the real point ,and information, he might need?



in past years ,yes , i have also seen individuals do this in public settings,
but seemed far more common in the home ..