The Emancipated Housewife (and Traditional Values)

[SFandEE]

Yes I did. The latest one is when I stayed at home ( as my husband (AM) wanted) and then heard some small and not so small things about "how he thinks".
 Your mother's life is the exception. It is not the example of ideal family in my book.
I guess, we are about same age and generation.
The USA values strong people. Strong people act in a tough way.

Your comments seem to take a unnecessarily strong tone with my comment.  I don't think I mentioned my mother either, no need to bring her into any discussion with me.  I was vague as to who I have observed.

[SFandEE]

I am always surprised when people say Russian women are more traditional. Sure we cook and have closer families and normally say "yes darling" while courting, but not traditional in the western sense at all. Most Russian women I know not only make decisions for themselves but tell their husbands what to do too. Of course all different if one marries someone the age of his daughter.

I did not say what you represent I said about Russian women.  I did say Russian women are making this transition quickly. 

I don't have a daughter or a son.  Some of the references are confusing.  What adult likes to be told what to do--by a woman or a man?  Based on your post emancipation for Russian men would seem to be in order.

[Doll]

Really? I would be appalled if my wife was so disrespectful. There are times that one of us may not like a friend of our partner's or their views, but to disrupt the evening by creating some dramatic scene? I can't imagine either of us embarrassing the other that way.

I am not going for how she did it, I don't blame her for not accepting the very essence of what she heard. It was a doubtful appraisal. They didn't complimented her , they complimented her husband.
So I do not blame her at all.

[Doll]

Your comments seem to take a unnecessarily strong tone with my comment.  I don't think I mentioned my mother either,

No, you didn't. I answered Gylden  who "strongly" accused me in having a bad experience.

[Doll]

 You did not like your relationship with your husband.  I imagine you have finished that relationship, emancipated yourself.

I am ok with the relationship with my husband, I didn't finish it- we're married.
Yes, I did emancipated myself, actually this is how it is in this country.

[Ranetka]

I did not say what you represent I said about Russian women.  I did say Russian women are making this transition quickly. 

I don't have a daughter or a son.  Some of the references are confusing.  What adult likes to be told what to do--by a woman or a man?  Based on your post emancipation for Russian men would seem to be in order.

...The have already made this transition, some 90 years ago.
They were allowed to vote before Americans, they could get divorce and get 50% before Americans, they had virtually free childcare etc etc.
They did not have many other things but have worked for ages.

Like in many eastern societies the utmost respect for a man of the family is displayed while decisions are made by the Mother.

[Doll]

I don't have a daughter or a son.  Some of the references are confusing.  What adult likes to be told what to do--by a woman or a man?  Based on your post emancipation for Russian men would seem to be in order.

OK,I'll explain why I refer to my sons. Somebody said something about how wonderful it was to smell the cookies after he came from school. It was just a feeling of a boy. So, I have two sons, both "vote" for the working mother because they want to be proud of her, of her being professional. They and their friends don't think it is the best for a woman to stay home. I mentioned that the boys were Russians to make myself clear, meaning it is not only "American" mentality.
Did I make myself clear?  

[SFandEE]

Sounds like the communists and Stalin, although lacking in human rights--were ahead of the curve on emancipation and women's rights.  Although this doesn't seem possible, and must not be a fact without detractors, I was not there.  Glad to hear it was a good time for Russian women.  I am confident the AW I know do not envy the emancipated RW of the 1920's, 1930's and 40's.

I need to check out the photos from that era--if you want to see an AW from 1920's google "flapper".  

[Doll]

Years later, at one of her dinners, a friend of her husband's tried to please her by mentioning the fact, to which he had always been privy. But instead of being complimented, as a man might have been if told that his wife had married him because he was a good lawyer, or surgeon, or carpenter, this unusual housekeeper, suffering a renaissance of usualness, denounced the guest as a liar, ordered him out of the house, and threatened to leave her husband.

Read it over  
Listen what happened: a man tells a woman that she married her husband because he was a good lawyer (surgeon). If  that woman married her husband because she loved him (which she apparently did), then this guest had to be called a liar and he couldn't stay in the house.
Not so?
I got some "minor" compliments like "you're so smart because you married J"
Very doubtful compliment.  

[Ranetka]

Sounds like the communists and Stalin, although lacking in human rights--were ahead of the curve on emancipation and women's rights.  

Yes, they were.

Speaking about "golden" Soviet times - -70s-early 80s the system inluded things like 1.5 years paid maternaty leave plus another 1.5 years voluntary unpaid leave, prohibition of terminating employment with a pregnant woman or a woman on maternaty leave, 100% paid sick leave given in case of child illness...Shall I carry on?

[Doll]

I stayed 3 years + 2 months at home with my younger (I mean my job was secured)

[SFandEE]

Read it over  
Listen what happened: a man tells a woman that she married her husband because he was a good lawyer (surgeon). If  that woman married her husband because she loved him (which she apparently did), then this guest had to be called a liar and he couldn't stay in the house.
Not so?
I got some "minor" compliments like "you're so smart because you married J"
Very doubtful compliment.  

I cringe when I hear compliments like this towards either gender.  I have heard backwards compliments like we looked for the smartest, most hard working, most socially skilled woman and chose her husband.  What an inane statement.  These specific statements were made in a patriarchal society.

In a society where people choose each other it would seem the best compliment is to the relationship and not making it sound like someone caught a break or over reached.  That being said, I am hoping to charm someone amazing, so if someone wants to say I was smart for marrying her--I will agree.

[Jumper]

Yes I did. The latest one is when I stayed at home ( as my husband (AM) wanted) and then heard some small and not so small things about "how he thinks".
 Your mother's life is the exception. It is not the example of ideal family in my book.
I guess, we are about same age and generation.
The USA values strong people. Strong people act in a tough way.

All men are not your husband ,or share his views on such.

My grandfather completely respected my *stay at home grandmother*
 and highly valued her social and family input more than his own,
he knew who really kept the household going,and appreciated it
She was also well read and educated.

Yes different times.. but the sentiment is not entirely lost.
Some men ,believe me or not, value and respect a womans social impact and position, regardless what her occupation is, or choice she makes in it ,, be that in the workplace or at home.
 

The AW you speak with ,tell you to not trust AM?
 then hang with  a better crowd Doll..

you like to play tough with words .
but if an AW is telling you this , is it not her own culture?  doesn't it reflect  in her own values?
just like RM and RW? you can't seperate culturally or by gender ?lol.
 
oh wait if  RW say RM are bad ,
and AW say AM are untrustworthy . . i get it now .

men suck.
you could just cut to the chase  


 For what its worth glydens experiences ,at this age group  are certainly not in anyway  unusual.
To try to make it out like his was the exception is inaccurate when describing the average family during his life.From what he describes, it was indeed the median norm in this culture.(and in many others)


My father raised me , he also adopted my step brother and raised him ,
as a sinlge father. How untrustworthy of AM.  lol
and while I love and respect my father , he is  not exceptional  in this regard ,  
quite a normal family AM.
Most men i know would do the same thing in the given situation.
(and certainly most all AW also)

[Jumper]

I stayed 3 years + 2 months at home with my younger (I mean my job was secured)

Yes i feel Russia is way ahead in this regard,and has been for years.
the recognize the need of women in the workforce ,while also recognizing the need for her
 to stay home during the childs early years ..and made programs to accomplish this.
Many things in the FSU are advanced compared to the west.Womens rights,while seemingly self evident , really  came with them being integral to the workforce

[Doll]

so if someone wants to say I was smart for marrying her--I will agree.

Sure you will Are we not talking how it sounded for that woman? We are.

[Faux Pas]

In America, 2 generations ago, a wife working a job was helpful but not usually needed to make ends meet. 3 generations ago and prior, a working wife and mother was an oddity. It wasn't required to make ends meet and families were, by in large bigger then. A typical married couple had more children and less conveniences. Then, a woman's place was indeed in the home out of necessity. My mother was one such. Some people retain those ideas as "old fashion" but they really have nothing to do present day with a woman choosing career over home. Too many other factors come in the equation.

I raised my two children alone from toddlers into adulthood. As a result became I pretty handy around the house as well as in the kitchen, I can cook well for a middle aged guy. My wife while wanting to work, has not went to work yet. It is her choice either way. Income is of no issue. At this time, due to the immigration process and her limitations in this country working, is more of an inconvenience. She is also a great cook for most all things Russian. The problem here is, I'm not particularly fond of all Russian foods, so I still take over the kitchen on a regular basis. I do believe she would be completely happy, working and taking care of the home, cooking, cleaning and all it entails. She also loves working in the yard. It's not about her being Russian as much is about her being a woman that genuinely enjoys taking care of her home. It's not "old fashion" values, just her individual personality...FWIW

[JR]

I figured it was written before WWII because of the prose and the lack of mentioning women in the work-force.

All I can say is that the times they are a-changing.

And change is constant.

And time waits for no one.

[Doll]

The AW you speak with ,tell you to not trust AM?

They say it is better to mean something socially and to be independent.
It is different, isn't it?
Or let's look at the divorce rate (also at the divorce laws).
 

[SFandEE]

It seems "men" are on the menu today!

[Doll]

you like to play tough with words .

I do, so I would like to make it clear- AW don't "tell me to", they " tell me that".
See the difference?
Do I learn from them though? Absolutely. Actually I learn more from men  

[Doll]

It seems "men" are on the menu today!

Yeah- you guys are done!

[SFandEE]

Yeah- you guys are done!

 (How did you find this great icon?)

Please don't suggest you did the cooking--what would people think?  Servants must prepare the meal and clean up afterwards.  This is an emancipated meal.

AM will bring flowers to dinner though--it is a role that RW still value I believe!  

 

[Doll]

  
The Good Wife's Guide

  * Have dinner ready. Plan ahead, even the night before, to have a delicious meal ready on time for his return. This is a way of letting him know that you have be thinking about him and are concerned about his needs. Most men are hungry when they get home and the prospect of a good meal is part of the warm welcome needed.
    * Prepare yourself. Take 15 minutes to rest so you'll be refreshed when he arrives. Touch up your make-up, put a ribbon in your hair and be fresh-looking. He has just been with a lot of work-weary people.
    * Be a little gay and a little more interesting for him. His boring day may need a lift and one of your duties is to provide it.
    * Clear away the clutter. Make one last trip through the main part of the house just before your husband arrives. Run a dust cloth over the tables.
    * During the cooler months of the year you should prepare and light a fire for him to unwind by. Your husband will feel he has reached a haven of rest and order, and it will give you a lift too. After all, catering to his comfort will provide you with immense personal satisfaction.
    * Minimize all noise. At the time of his arrival, eliminate all noise of the washer, dryer or vacuum. Encourage the children to be quiet.
    * Be happy to see him.
    * Greet him with a warm smile and show sincerity in your desire to please him.
    * Listen to him. You may have a dozen important things to tell him, but the moment of his arrival is not the time. Let him talk first - remember, his topics of conversation are more important than yours.
    * Don't greet him with complaints and problems.
    * Don't complain if he's late for dinner or even if he stays out all night. Count this as minor compared to what he might have gone through at work.
    * Make him comfortable. Have him lean back in a comfortable chair or lie him down in the bedroom. Have a cool or warm drink ready for him.
    * Arrange his pillow and offer to take off his shoes. Speak in a low, soothing and pleasant voice.
    * Don't ask him questions about his actions or question his judgment or integrity. Remember, he is the master of the house and as such will always exercise his will with fairness and truthfulness. You have no right to question him.
    * A good wife always knows her place.
 

[Doll]

How did you find this

http://smajliki.ru/

[Doll]

Please don't suggest you did the cooking--what would people think?  Servants must prepare the meal and clean up afterwards.  This is an emancipated meal.

AW will bring flowers to dinner though--it is a role that RW still value I believe!

I do 90% cooking. My husband does not bring the flowers to dinner.
I cook because I love to and because J. works long hours and makes good money.
I don't think it is fair to make him cook, though he does sometimes.