TR: The former Soviet Republic of Sacramento

[Sculpto]

About one month ago I received an innocent and polite message from a nice Ukrainian lady in Sacramento.  We sustained an awesome correspondence of one or two letters and decided to meet in real life. 

Alas Murphy's law intervened and instead of the immediate meeting we were forced to delay by exactly four weeks from the original plan.  However, there was the benefit of this night being host to an exceptional concert event for which I had purchased tickets some time back.  So, I knew even if the date wasn't good, I would have an amazing time enjoying one of the greatest musicians alive today. 

So, I awaited the moment anxiously and finally it was time to get into my rental car and make the journey.

I prepared by putting on clean pants and a clean shirt, paying careful attention to dressing exactly as I normally do.. which could be described as San Francisco artist grunge.. I did put on some cologne though.

So, I got into the car and immediately struck massive traffic.  Who knew so many people would be trying to drive to Sac at the same time as me.. and.. what the heck for.. there is nothing there!

So, I sent the lady an sms saying that I would be a little late.  She didn't seem to mind.

After crossing the CQ Straights bridge I sent another sms to tell her I was cruising at a good speed now and let her know the eta. 

I was forced to revise the eta on three more occasions when the five lane freeway slowed to a stop for no apparent reasons in the middle of no where.

Finally, I arrived 15 minutes late.  Was the lady ready?  Of course not!  She made me wait another 15 minutes.

But, the wait was certainly worth it.  She is one of those smart girls that does not have especially flattering photos on her pages.. so.. her beauty far exceeded what I was expecting.  I thought she was attractive (to me) or I would not have gone to meet her.. but I did not expect her to be stunning.

She was dressed in a pair of blue jeans and a simple t-shirt with low heal open toe shoes, no makeup, no jewelry.  But, she wasn't plain at all.. in fact.. she was gorgeous and I told her so after opening the door to the car for her.

So, she got into the car and we started the journey back to SF.  She had never seen the ocean so that was the plan.. head out to the ocean and have a nice walk on the beach and then get ready for the concert.

So, we battled the traffic.. alternately cruising along at 85 mph or at a dead stop in massive gridlock.  But, we had the AC on and we were comfortable.

The lady giggled at every word I said.  Her English is rather horribly accented so she begged me to correct her every mistake.  That kept us busy enough and laughing through the long journey back to SF.  Both of us had forgotten our "Russian/English" paperback vocabularies so we were just finding ways to say what needed to be said.  It was quite pleasant in fact.

Finally we got to SF and I took her the long way through the City before we hit the beach.  She was fascinated with the architecture and the cultural changes in the various 'hoods all the way from the freeway to the beach.  Finally, we arrived at Baker Beach and my usual stellar parking karma paid off again and we go a spot in the main lot within a couple of minutes of arrival.

So, we took off our shoes and heading down the beach.  It was an absolutely glorious day and the beach was packed with people.  The area closest to the parking lot is generally considered a family area but as we got closer to the north end of the beach the naked people started popping up.  Her looks of shock were funny, but, she couldn't stop looking and had a rather blushed color to her face.  When we got to the gay area and all the tatoo guys and pierced guys were "hanging" around she really couldn't stop looking and when I explained these men were gay and some of them spend the whole summer hanging around on that beach she was even more fascinated and rattled off tons of funny questions about the lifestyle of said homosexuals.

Eventually we got to the rocks at the end of the beach and made some photos.  Finally she asked if we could leave because even though when we arrived at the rocks we were pretty much alone within a few minutes we were in fact surrounded by naked gay guys.  So.. we headed back down the beach and managed not to get our pants wet walking  on the edge of the surf which we both determined was too cold two swim in anyway.

Traffic across the city was a nightmare yesterday so what should have been a 20 minute drive ended up taking the better part of an hour.  But, once we got away from the beaches and national park areas I took one of my famous shortcuts which let me show her the "Mrs. Doubtfire" house and several other mansions I have worked in over the years.  When I told her those houses typically start at 5 million and go up from there she was shocked but didn't seem put off at all by the fact that I will never have that kind of money.  We also detoured around Dolores Park, which is where I often spend my weekends, and got there just in time to catch a "Sister's of Perpetual Indulgence" AIDS awareness parade.  Si, picture middle aged butch gay men dressed in Nun's garb with highly decorative face paint.  My date begged me to stop the car so she could jump out and take photos.  I called out to my friend, Sister Dana, who got all the Sister's to blow a kiss for the photo. 

Finally we got back to my apartment and we went into the bedroom to get organized to change clothes and go to the concert.  I decided I would give her a little kiss on the cheek and see what would happen because the chemistry and vibe felt right.  When I did that, she said "I wondered where is my kiss" so, I decided to go for something a little more.. personal.. the gesture was clearly appreciated and so I then left her to change for the concert and sat waiting in the kitchen with a very big smile on my face. 

When she came out.. I almost hit the floor.  She had on a lacy layered black on black one piece.. not too short but short enough and tight enough that I knew I was in BIG TROUBLE!  I couldn't take my eyes off her and she was clearly appreciating the admiration and blushed some more.

So, it was my turn to get changed and I quickly upped my game and put on the Kenneth Cole slacks and silk shirt.. when she saw me she was either a darn good actress or as equally thrilled at my transformation as I was at hers. 

I grabbed her hand.. and we headed out the door for a short drive over to Oakland for the concert. 

Parking karma again worked for me and we got a spot a block away from the concert hall.  I had two front row center balcony seats and we headed in and sat down, but, not before getting a glass of red wine.  She was very specific that she did not want semi sweet but i had to explain that no one in California ever drinks semi sweet.

It didn't take long for the concert hall to fill to capacity and the show started only 15 minutes late. 

She had never heard of the Maestro before, but, within the first 45 seconds of the first song she leaned over and whispered in my ear.. "he is wonderful, I love this music". 

For the next 2 and half hours we listened quietly, gave standing ovations, I nearly cried several times and I tried to translate all the love songs but they always went too fast.  The Maestro performed 5 encores and really brought down the house.  It was fantastic and my date is now hooked on the Maestro and wishes for me to assemble a cd for her which I will gladly do.

So, we got back in the car and crossed the Bay Bridge at night.  If you have never done it.. you have't lived.  The Skyline view is one of the best in the world and she didn't stop talking about it the whole way across the bridge.  We got off at the first exit which is a very interesting skyway road that weaves its way in between a bunch of skyscrapers.  She commented on that also about how beautiful the lights in the buildings looked and that there was nothing like it in Ukraine.

So, we got up to North Beach for an after concert snack.  North beach is IMPOSSIBLE to park on a Saturday night, but, again, my parking karma was flawless and we found a spot only two blocks from the cafe.  Once we were inside Steps of Rome I ordered a warm Caprese toast, which is a house specialty, and a warm spinach salad with carmelized onions, pancetta, globs of creamy mozzarela and glazed walnuts.  We shared both dishes and declined on desert.  The food was quite delicious though and she loved the cafe.  Dinner cost 20 bucks with tip.

We had a roundabout digestive walk back to the car down Grant Street where there were small groups of people smoking medicine on the street outside the clubs and then drove back to my house.  She laughed about the medicine and said it stinks like skunks.. I laughed and said yeah it sure does.  LOL.  She said she has tried it but didn't really like it.. she doesn't get drunk either.  Good girl really. 

We finally fell asleep around 5 in the morning after talking all night.  We might have done something else, but, I told her that I really liked her and would prefer if we did not rush into anything.  She really loved that I was so thoughtful about it because she had been willing, but, understood that my request to save that for later was a huge compliment and respect to her.

So, we talked and giggled and laughed and shared our histories and heartbreaks and hopes and dreams and finally fell asleep in each others arms.

I woke up at 9:30.. made espresso for her while she got ready and we made the long journey back to Sac.  Before we got onto the freeway I drove us over to 24th street to get some Mexican pastry for the drive and to pick up a small gift for her 3 year old girl.  The bakery had some crocodiles so I bought one for her little girl.  Then we went to Walgreen's, I had hoped for one for the little Mexican stores for a gift, but none were open yet so we settled on Walgreen's.  I picked out a little educational bear with buttons and language lessons, and, a very nice soap bubble blowing kit which should be a fantastic gift for a three year old.

The drive back was no less engaging than the entire date had been and she kept saying how I had filled her brain with too much information. 

Her parting words were.. "I wish this day did not end" to which I replied.. "We will be together again soon".

There is only one flaw.. I am not sure I am prepared for a ready made family.. so.. we will just have to see how it goes.

[KenC]

Wow!  How lucky!  Sounds like you both hit it off great.  Now, just take it easy and cautious until you know each other better.  I know it is easy to say and hard to do when things sound so perfect.  Best of luck to you.  Sac is a hell of a lot more convenient than Kiev!
KenC

[KenC]

2012,
Been thinking about your position of dating a woman with a child and not all too thrilled with the prospects of maybe having an instant family.  I found myself in this position while dating many AW between marriages.  I learned the hard way, so take or leave my input as you wish.  I was dating a nurse with a great 8 year old son.  During the time, the kid and I became very close.  In fact I liked the boy better than the mom.  It broke my heart when we parted.  From that point on, I kept my distance with the children of the women I dated.  Too big of a chance things with their mom will not be long term.  My advice is to be wary of getting too close to the daughter until you are sure the relationship has legs.

There is also a very funny bit in Jerry McGuire movie regarding this.

I also have a question for you.  Do you know how this gal happened to come to America?
KenC

[Shadow]

2012 lets hope the future will be bright in this one. Regarding the instant family I understand what you mean, however do not let it bother you too much.
As a young father I am beginning to appreciate instant family more. 

[BillyB]

There is only one flaw.. I am not sure I am prepared for a ready made family.. so.. we will just have to see how it goes.

When dating a woman with kids, it's the package deal so you have to accept the whole package. Why did you decide to meet her once you learned she had kids? If you are not ready for a ready made family, she will need to understand this soon if she's only dating you to be fair to her.

Kids need their own love. Love you give their mother isn't enough for them.  If a father is going to be in their lives, he has to accept the full job of being the father.

I once married a woman with kids so a woman without kids at this time is highly desirable for myself. If I'm going to have anymore kids, they are going to be my own. A few years gone by and I have loosened up a little and have dated women with kids because at my age, I'm not hard pressed to have more biological kids but still open to it.

I've met a few RW that have lived hours away from me. I don't know what your average drive is going to take from SF to Sacramento but all you'll have is weekends to see the RW. If you go to her city, she probably won't let you stay at her house so you'd have get a room at a motel at first. If you normally rent a car to travel outside the city plus gas, a date with her is going to cost over $100 not including dinner and entertainment. Later she'll probably let you sleep in her house when you visit for the weekend if she really likes and trusts you. It's tougher since she has a little daughter. Some women don't like to introduce a man to their small child unless they are sure there is some long term relationship that's going to happen. They don't want their child getting emotionally attached to a man who is not going to be around very long.

The hardest part of trying to forge a bond with a RW who lives hours away is the fact you have little face to face time so the bonding doesn't happen very fast. It won't happen over the phone. Since you're just starting to date that RW across the State, reality hasn't hit yet but it's not easy.

[Sculpto]

2012 lets hope the future will be bright in this one. Regarding the instant family I understand what you mean, however do not let it bother you too much.
As a young father I am beginning to appreciate instant family more. 

We will see how it goes Shadow.. she is really quite charming and sensitive.  I want to be careful because I have in fact dated women with children before and I felt very bad about being a source of potential pain for the kids.. especially the first time since that family were neighbors and it was the kids that introduced me to their Mom.  I loved those kids a lot and later on she used them as blackmail and leverage.. pretty rotten thing for a Mom to do and was in fact the last straw in that relationship.

In this case.. at this point.. there is nothing to indicate this lady is of that kind of mindset.  She just arrived in the US on some sort of family unification visa.. there are a number of immediate family members and cousins sharing a home in Sac.  Right now she is devoting her time to learning English.  One thing that is really amazing.. since Saturday.. her English has improved significantly.. she told me tonight.. "I not afraid to speak now, because you help me".  Pretty cool stuff. 

So.. I am picking her up Friday evening.. and taking her back Sunday.. we have quite a nice weekend planned.   

[Sculpto]

Billy, its an open forum and I posted my TR in the area where people can respond.  But really dude.. you have a lot of nerve poking your nose in here.  So, do me and everyone else a really HUGE favor.. and keep your assumptions and extrapolations to yourself.  I have no interest in ANYTHING you have to say and will not respond further to anything you write.  Do what you want.. but this would be a good time to show some respect and your post already, as always, shows a lack of respect and especially a lack of dignity on your part.  So really, please, let others converse and just stay out of my business.  Thank you.

When dating a woman with kids, it's the package deal so you have to accept the whole package. Why did you decide to meet her once you learned she had kids? If you are not ready for a ready made family, she will need to understand this soon if she's only dating you to be fair to her.

Kids need their own love. Love you give their mother isn't enough for them.  If a father is going to be in their lives, he has to accept the full job of being the father.

I once married a woman with kids so a woman without kids at this time is highly desirable for myself. If I'm going to have anymore kids, they are going to be my own. A few years gone by and I have loosened up a little and have dated women with kids because at my age, I'm not hard pressed to have more biological kids but still open to it.

I've met a few RW that have lived hours away from me. I don't know what your average drive is going to take from SF to Sacramento but all you'll have is weekends to see the RW. If you go to her city, she probably won't let you stay at her house so you'd have get a room at a motel at first. If you normally rent a car to travel outside the city plus gas, a date with her is going to cost over $100 not including dinner and entertainment. Later she'll probably let you sleep in her house when you visit for the weekend if she really likes and trusts you. It's tougher since she has a little daughter. Some women don't like to introduce a man to their small child unless they are sure there is some long term relationship that's going to happen. They don't want their child getting emotionally attached to a man who is not going to be around very long.

The hardest part of trying to forge a bond with a RW who lives hours away is the fact you have little face to face time so the bonding doesn't happen very fast. It won't happen over the phone. Since you're just starting to date that RW across the State, reality hasn't hit yet but it's not easy.

[Sculpto]

Wow!  How lucky!  Sounds like you both hit it off great.  Now, just take it easy and cautious until you know each other better.  I know it is easy to say and hard to do when things sound so perfect.  Best of luck to you.  Sac is a hell of a lot more convenient than Kiev!
KenC

She seems to be a pretty amazing girl Ken.. Sac is an easy drive... I know people who actually commute daily from there to work in SF.. the cost of living is about half (or even less) in Sac as SF so for someone who doesn't mind sitting in that traffic.. you know bumper to bumper at 85 and then you get passed by the CHP who really isn't interested in slowing anyone down.. and then the grid lock in the middle of nowhere halfway between Vacaville and Davis.. I could never live like that.. but.. I can rent a car for 15 bucks a day.. go pick her up.. and we are already halfway to Tahoe.. or Lassen.. or Shasta.. or just an hour back to wine country.. or right at the entrance to the Gold Country.. so there are TONS of amazing things we can do.. She likes camping out too.. and.. best of all.. she has the support network to help her with her kid while we get to know each other which gives me time to decide if I can handle it.. We actually talked a bit more about it today and based on what she told me about how she ended up being a single Mom.. I feel considerably more at ease than I did after such a nice time with her the other night... meaning.. its clear she isn't looking for someone to take her responsibility away.. she is strong and independent and once she is on her feet she will be fine.  You know what I mean?  I am trying to say.. she is definitely not looking for a Daddy for her girl... I am 100% sure she is looking for love and respect and maybe a little help in adaptation to her new reality of immigrant life. 

[KenC]

2012,
Everything you write sounds so perfect. Just be careful to hold on to your heart strings as long as possible.  You really do not know 100% about much right now, except your own feelings.  I say this because I am much like you in that it is an all or nothing for me.   Just don't want to see you hurt, dude.

You really have to check out the monologue between Cubba Gooding's character and Jerry McGuire about "stealing the booty from the Momma."  Funny as Hell.

From the sound of things, you two are going to be sending mucho time in SF.  Seems like she wasknocked out by it.  Can't say I blame her much because it has always been one of my favorite cities too.
KenC
(BTW we just had a pretty good shake down here, did it come your way?)

[Gator]

I was dating a nurse with a great 8 year old son.  During the time, the kid and I became very close.  In fact I liked the boy better than the mom.  It broke my heart when we parted. 

Me too.  They don't fully understand the reasons.  If you breakup, it is important to make sure that a child understands it is not his fault.

My advice is to be wary of getting too close to the daughter until you are sure the relationship has legs.

Good advice.  A good mother will not allow it anyway.  I would add that you really should think this through before getting too involved.  The responsibility is huge.  And some kids are a pure delight, others a PITA.

[Sculpto]

2012,
Everything you write sounds so perfect. Just be careful to hold on to your heart strings as long as possible.  You really do not know 100% about much right now, except your own feelings.  I say this because I am much like you in that it is an all or nothing for me.   Just don't want to see you hurt, dude.

You really have to check out the monologue between Cubba Gooding's character and Jerry McGuire about "stealing the booty from the Momma."  Funny as Hell.

From the sound of things, you two are going to be sending mucho time in SF.  Seems like she wasknocked out by it.  Can't say I blame her much because it has always been one of my favorite cities too.
KenC
(BTW we just had a pretty good shake down here, did it come your way?)

I know the scene in the film.. it is funny.. in fact, that is the only Tom Cruise film I have ever actually liked and mostly because I loved Renee.. lol..

Well.. she did love SF.. but the truth is.. she has been here 5 months and except for one weekend to the Tahoe area with her cousin she hasn't even been out of her immediate neighborhood.  There are 7 people living in the house and only one driver.. her and her Mom walk the 25 or so blocks from the house to the strip mall next to I-80 where they buy groceries and other stuff... I think I saw a Marshalls..

[Sculpto]

Gator and Ken.. both you are guys are 100% right.. I have no intention of letting it go too far or getting involved with her child at this point.  What I see on the short term is she is bored and probably fairly desperate for some attention.  That is not the basis for a relationship with depth.  So, its just going to take some time to get to know her.

Right now language is a small barrier.  I have absolutely no idea how some guys get married to ladies who have no language skills.  This gal has about four months of the free community college english course and we can certainly have basic conversations, but, she even said, she is not capable of really expressing her feelings at this point.  So, that is a limiting factor as well and in my view helps slow things down so the relationship can evolve in a more stable way.  The short distance doesn't hurt in that either.  And, she does have an awesome English teacher now..  

Nevertheless.. she does seem very sweet and even if fueled by some loneliness or boredom her interest seems really sincere.

I have been thinking a lot about the ready made family thing though.. I think my main concern is wanting to be really sure about her before I make a serious commitment.  I don't really think the child is a problem..

I think my problem is not wanting to in any way be responsible for hurting a child.  But, really.. isn't that a risk any parent takes when they decide to have their own children?  I mean, even if a person has the best intentions it doesn't automatically mean they are capable of being a good parent.

[KenC]

I think my problem is not wanting to in any way be responsible for hurting a child. 

2012,
This is easily avoided by limiting your time with the kid until later.  You can even explain this to the woman.  Tell her that you do not want to put her daughter in harms way (emotionally) until the two of you are sure that you might be a serious long term thing.  It is a difficult line to walk, but the mom should go along because it is what is best for her daughter.

But, really.. isn't that a risk any parent takes when they decide to have their own children?  I mean, even if a person has the best intentions it doesn't automatically mean they are capable of being a good parent.

This is a lot trickier question than you might think.  Only a person that has both had their own children and also has the experience with raising another child or children that they did not father would really know.  (Hope Gator chimes in because he also has this experience) With all the similarities, it is much different.  With your own kids, it is all instinctive.  No matter how much you plan in your head how you will be a Father, it still boils down to instincts.  With stepchildren, you will be required to do a lot more thinking before acting.  Is this action within my bounds as allowed by their mother?  What would the mother want me to do?  Everything depends upon how loose the leash is on you by the mom, but never make the mistake of thinking it isn't HER decision that is final, not yours.  The mom will always hold the trump card which is not true when they are your children.

Not trying to scare you any more than necessary, but do want you to have the straight scoop.
KenC

[I/O]

The Loony Liberal turns Arch Conservative? Eric, this has been a delight to read and I am glad I disciplined myself not to respond when I first glanced this morning (my time). This thread deserves seasoned comment and I am equally glad Ken and Gator are in on this with you at the get go, seasoned heads. A few comments if I may.........

Eric, in 2005 I met a lady (on line) with an 18 months old whom I had brushed shoulders with when she had a 6 months old (I didn't know about the child at the time). Both instances involved a lady who was barely ready for a relationship and I certainly was not jumping over myself for an instant family. Fast forward 1 year, we had an opportunity to spend a whole month long together, just the two of us. Fast forward another few months and we spent 3 weeks together with her son for the first time. Then a frenetic series of trips back and forth, some with son, some without. That was between Omsk and Brisbane (near to). Why am I telling you this?

In 2007 I married a lady with a 3 1/2 Y/O. All above are of course the one lady. The process was not difficult but the decision making was. I'm normally decisive and a brutally clear thinker. The ability to make objective judgement departed and I admit to really struggling. Fortunately, Mrs I/O who is not noted for her suffering silently can have patience way beyond her years and did. I once asked her why and her reaction was interesting, "you have always done exactly what you said you would do, not more and not less, therefore I understood if I waited you would give me clear answers and would not hand me BS, so I was prepared to wait."  My point is, BE CONSISTENT...!!!

The only direct advice I can give on fostering a relationship with her child is DON'T try to make anything happen, let them both come to you ..................... when they are ready. Be consistent and even distant at times, let them make the moves but be vigilant to respond at the right times because the tests will be set and you must pass. You CANNOT be her model father for a child, hers or yours or other, you MUST remain your own man. Do not go out of your way to over please. Be kind, be considerate, but responsible and above all be yourself. Children IMO, even more so than adults, deserve to fall in love with the real deal.

You are absolutely correct in Sac is just down the road, beats the hell out of flying to Tomsk , you have time, opportunity and enthusiasm. Why not? Go for it man but go for it with the calculator in hand as I'm sure you will. Due diligence should be undertaken (why here, what history, yada yada) but IMO has no business being reported here. For the moment, enjoy the journey and worry (to some extent) about the desto later but drive carefully. I don't like seeing anyone, including you, hurt.

[tim 360]

Good Luck 2012 and thanks for your exotic trip report to Sac.  It has surprised me that so many guys go barging off to Kiev or Kamchatka to meet an RW when there are quite a few RW already here.  The big plus is that they are already acclimatized to the USA and don't want to go home to MaMa.  Look out for those bonfires on the beach.  I look forward to your next trip report from maybe...Monterey?

[BillyB]

this would be a good time to show some respect and your post already, as always, shows a lack of respect and especially a lack of dignity on your part. 

Since you came back from your ban, you've regularly taken shots at people such as the time you called Mars a dork in his trip report and told jb to crawl back in the hole he was hiding in after you thought he made an idiotic comment.

You want respect, you better understand what it means first.

Since you don't approve of Mars, I assume you don't date more than one woman at a time. You are probably very focused on this one RW and determined to make it work into a relationship although you just met her. You may be blind to red flags but you've identified the language barrier as an obstacle and the child as a flaw. You were being honest describing how you felt about the child and although your feelings for the lady may grow, you may never have feelings for the child.

If you decide to have a child in your life then you need to grow up. You may find a woman who accepts the fact you smoke dope but for a child's sake, you should quit and get rid of the marijuana farm in your house. This comment isn't about insulting you, it's about the welfare of a child.

[Gator]

Is this action within my bounds as allowed by their mother?  What would the mother want me to do?  Everything depends upon how loose the leash is on you by the mom, but never make the mistake of thinking it isn't HER decision that is final, not yours.  The mom will always hold the trump card which is not true when they are your children.

IMO you embody the RW's concept of a strong man, something they respect.  It surprises me that you think this way.  What you describe is intolerable IMO.  Kids would walk all over you knowing that you have to check with mama.  The united front is best.  And if mama disagrees with what you are doing, she pulls you aside to discuss it, never in front of the kids.

Giving mama the trump card also separates the family - there is you and the two of them (or three if she has two kids). 

Some men do not want to be bothered with the kids, so they leave everything to mama and meanwhile do men stuff (e. g., go to ball games with their friends, not with the kids).  If so, why have kids?

[KenC]

Gator,
I do not want to sidetrack his thread, so I'll keep this short.  These are areas that need to be established before hand.  I agree, that a united front is best.  I do think that the momma will always have the trump card when push comes to shove.  Using it in a limited and "behind closed doors" manner is best.  My first wife and I never disagreed about the kids in front of them, but had many a talk privately.
KenC

[Sculpto]

I/O thanks for the awesome response.  As I have been pondering this situation I had actually imagined a situation much like what you described evolving over time.  So, we will see what happens. 

She has described her child as any Mother would.  I was actually very impressed by the kids photos.. of course any Mom is going to have a stack of them, but, the child seemed to have an uncanny knack for the camera at the ripe old age of three.  There seems to be an intelligence there.. pretty cool.

So, anyway.. I am on the "take it slow" plan.  We talked about that last night and over the weekend.  She is in total agreement, but, at the same time doesn't want to let this chance slip away.  I am guessing we will spend a lot of weekends together this summer.

I will report from time to time how things are going.

[Sculpto]

Billy.. aside from the obvious fact that you are an idiot.. your bile is useless and I am immune to you.  Guys like you are a dime a dozen and your contributions here are in general little more than the uneducated rantings of a small powerless low self esteem loser.  If you continue to post in my thread this is what you can expect in return.    Have a very nice day.

[SomeGuy]

2012, it's been a good read, and I wish you good luck.

I have not dated an FSU woman with a child.  I never excluded the possibility entirely, but certainly noted the experience of others there.

I have dated AW with kids, and can only agree with Ken's comments not as 100% certainty to be trumped, but as a very real possibility.  Some women may over time expect you to become very close, and nearly equal in parenting, others may be the complete opposite, even going so far as to jump into the middle of a normal conversation with the child.  As someone mentioned, us vs. them is not a desirable situation.  It is a package deal if you and her progress, but also one more thing to consider beyond liking the child and the added responsibility, in how she will react/expect/want you to when around the child.

Good luck, I hope it goes well for you!

[Ade]

so.. we will just have to see how it goes.

Dude, I'm happy for you and I really hope it works out. The kid thing, don't worry too much is my advice.

[BillyB]

Billy.. aside from the obvious fact that you are an idiot.. your bile is useless and I am immune to you.  Guys like you are a dime a dozen and your contributions here are in general little more than the uneducated rantings of a small powerless low self esteem loser. 

Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me. Nah nanny boo boo! 


2012, you could've responded to my post in a mature manner and let everyone and hopefully your RW know if you get involved with a woman with a child, you plan to put the child in the best possible environment even if it means sacrificing some personal bad habits. Instead you respond immaturely with name calling and claiming to be immune. Doesn't make sense but whatever. Hopefully you get yourself to a point in life where you don't need people to wish you good luck to make good things happen. As of now, you still have a lot of growing up to do. When you get tired of a woman or she gets on your bad side, will you call her some bad names too?

[kievstar]

BillyB,
Why add fuel to start a fire with Scultpo. Just sit back and read his thread.  Personally I am happy for him.  Also, nice to see Scultpo and other members getting along.

[BillyB]

Why add fuel to start a fire with Scultpo.  
 

I have been gentle with 2012 from my first post here. Although harsh, the advice to get rid of the drugs if he is going to bring a child in his life is very good advice. It's not an insult. If him or anybody here was an alcoholic, I'd recommend them quitting that too.