Personal Banking in the Ukraine

[Manny]

Daveyj, Might I ask, why is there a need to financially support a woman you have only met three times?

Anyway, if anyone has any practical, factual experience with how to make a direct transfer/deposit into a Ukraine bank account, (or into Liqpay), please let me know.

Open a non resident account (with net access) in another European country while you are travelling. (Not the UK as we broadly follow the more stringent US rules). You will just be able to send a "wire" (swift) to a country of your choice then from the net. Any bank in Estonia, Latvia or Lithuania would be a good bet. All there will carry the 100k Euro protection limit.

[daveyj]

Daveyj, Might I ask, why is there a need to financially support a woman you have only met three times?

Well that didn't take long.  Nice to see that the board hasn't lost its snide, sanctimonious charm.

Actually, we'd met five times when I first posted this thread, and twice since.  Not that it's relevant to my question from yesterday.
Does that meet your standard, or is it now going to become "less than 8 meetings"?

Now how's about you tell me something about your lady, so I can insult you right back?
Dick.

[ECOCKS]

Well that didn't take long.  Nice to see that the board hasn't lost its snide, sanctimonious charm.

Actually, we'd met five times when I first posted this thread, and twice since.  Not that it's relevant to my question from yesterday.
Does that meet your standard, or is it now going to become "less than 8 meetings"?

Now how's about you tell me something about your lady, so I can insult you right back?
Dick.

 

[Jumper]

davey J,

1. Maybe not the best way,but just a thought or possibilty.?

open for yourself a seperate debit card account.
minimal balance required ($100 USD or canadian?  some banks?)

fed ex?/ - DHL her the card..
then call her with the PIN
inform your bank you want that account open to withdrawls in Ukraine to the appropriate amount.

she can easily withdraw funds in ukraine from most any ATM and
then deposit into her current local bank account.

perhaps not the "paper trail" from you to her you were originally looking for,
but still easy enough to show the transactions/dates you deposited, and when she with drew and / redeposited to matchuing funds.Matching the accounts


The ATM fees are typically minimal and good exchange rates but check around and open your  "new" account accordingly.




2. Manny may have ruffled your feathers, but I don't see an insult to your lady.
Questioning your decisions ,which i understand you can take offense, doesnt seem to directly violate the ToS.

I'm fairly sure his name isn't Richard.

While I do not moderate this particular section,I'd advise you to chill a bit.



 

[viking]

I did the same thing as AJ suggested. I opened a debit card account at my bank, under my name ( we must have the applicant present). I mailed her the card. when she told me she received it, I gave her the pin over the phone ( email or sms will also work). I can monitor the withdrawals here and instantly transfer funds from my own account into hers as needed, and she can use it at any bank she wants. Yes, its my account, and I had total control, a good thing in my mind, but it worked great. Honestly, I see no reason for monies to be placed into "her" account. You seem to be jumping thru a lot of hoops to do this, unnecessarily. I cannot speak about Canada, but here in the US no one cares about her finances only the petitioners, should all this reach that stage of the relationship.

[daveyj]

Viking/AJ, thanks for the suggestions.  That would indeed be easy enough, and actually I've already given her a credit card (in her name, but on my account) and thus she can withdraw money easily enough whenever we might need.  I gave it to her originally because she was travelling separately from me, and for emergencies, and she's never misused it.

But I don't like that option for three reasons. 

First, it doesn't put the money directly into her account, and thus she would have to travel to her bank twice a month to deposit it.  Just a pain, that's all. 

Second, the cash deposit by her would not provide the paper trail of the financial support from me to her.  I want that paper trail to assist in various tourist visa applications (we just submitted one for the UK, and the $3k+ balance she has built up in in the past 6 months of regular deposits from me is an important component of her application)).

Third, I think its nicer for her to just have it direct deposited on regular days, and to develop an appreciation for that security. Just my preference.

I did a western union transfer for the last one as a temporary measure (and she then deposited the cash), and I'll continue to look around. I'm sure there must be an easy way for me to transfer money into webmoney or liqpay.

[Jumper]

daveyj-
 i understand what you where wanting to do and why..
and maybe there is a good solution out there ..



the one we suggested , isn't the best ,but it does have a paper trial?
 
it maybe a *slight* pain,
but as long as:

you have your account records.
she keeps the reciepts from the ATM?
also further if  she has her account records showing days of deposits
(preferably the day she withdrew from the ATM)

I believe an consulate/immigration  officer reviewing an application with those records would accept it easily enough, even though in the overall picture it would be one small part of the app.
 

Good Luck!

[viking]

I am a little confused here. Again I cannot speak for anything other than a US visa. But if I were a consular officer in an US embassy,and an applicant was looking to get a tourist visa and was trying to show that she had money in a bank ( showing proof of financial stability to come home to) and showed me bank records I would certainly inquiry where all the money came from considering the monthly income she may be earning. Who was giving her this money? The thought process would be if some guy was doing this on her behalf, but she was seeking a tourist visa, maybe...maybe..there was something more going on here and maybe this woman may not be actually seeking "just" to visit my country but to meet a guy and possibly not come home. Get my drift? This has happened before and visas denied if they suspected some kind off deception.  Would hate to see that happen. Embassies process thousands of applications and have seen it all and know the average income levels of most countries. Again financial support from you should have no bearing on a tourist visa.

[ECOCKS]

I agree Viking. I am not understanding Davey's desire to leave a trail between his account and her pocketbook. Quite the opposite would be preferred. That wouldn't work for a US Visa application but maybe it's what he needs for his system.

[daveyj]

I The thought process would be if some guy was doing this on her behalf, but she was seeking a tourist visa, maybe...maybe..there was something more going on here and maybe this woman may not be actually seeking "just" to visit my country but to meet a guy and possibly not come home. Get my drift? This has happened before and visas denied if they suspected some kind off deception. 

I know exactly what you mean, and I would agree with you if we were using this to apply for a tourist visa for her to visit me in Canada.  But rather we're applying for tourist visas for other countries, so that we can say 1) she has a legitimate relationship with her bf verified by corresponding stamps in our passports for trips together and the financial support etc 2) she has money in the bank,  3) I'm an upstanding citizien (certifications, etc) who is writing a letter of recommendation 4) I'm travelling with her

So my hope is that the visa officials will conclude that the relationship is genuine, she has means to complete the trip on her own, and she won't violate the terms of the visa because to do so will probably harm her prospects for getting a future visa to Canada, and similarly harm the relationship.

Once we get a few more visas in her passport, she'll put in a standalone tourist visa to Canada where she'll simply acknowledge that she'll be visiting friends including me.  With the prior visas in her passport, the Canadian visa should be easier.

Again, neither of us have any intention of subverting the process.  Frankly, I don't see the point of entering on a tourist visa and then not returning.  Once you've had that first tourist visa and returned home, it should be much simpler to revisit the country again.

ps. If anyone newly reading this has any insight into the original question at hand of how to direct deposit into a Ukraine bank account, let me know. thx

[ECOCKS]

So, Davey, have you checked with your bank to find out their fee for a wire into her account?

[daveyj]

Yes, $50.  And the transfer time can vary by a couple of days.  Its one option, but I'd hate to give the bank $100 a month, when it was only going to be $10 a month via Liqpay.  Next week I'll do some heavy duty internet surfing, and try to find a cheaper, easier solution. 

[Jumper]

I know exactly what you mean, and I would agree with you if we were using this to apply for a tourist visa for her to visit me in Canada.  But rather we're applying for tourist visas for other countries, so that we can say 1) she has a legitimate relationship with her bf verified by corresponding stamps in our passports for trips together and the financial support etc 2) she has money in the bank,  3) I'm an upstanding citizien (certifications, etc) who is writing a letter of recommendation 4) I'm travelling with her

So my hope is that the visa officials will conclude that the relationship is genuine, she has means to complete the trip on her own, and she won't violate the terms of the visa because to do so will probably harm her prospects for getting a future visa to Canada, and similarly harm the relationship.

Once we get a few more visas in her passport, she'll put in a standalone tourist visa to Canada where she'll simply acknowledge that she'll be visiting friends including me.  With the prior visas in her passport, the Canadian visa should be easier.

Again, neither of us have any intention of subverting the process.  Frankly, I don't see the point of entering on a tourist visa and then not returning.  Once you've had that first tourist visa and returned home, it should be much simpler to revisit the country again.

ps. If anyone newly reading this has any insight into the original question at hand of how to direct deposit into a Ukraine bank account, let me know. thx

daveyJ-
 understood.



I believe the easiest way for hefr to stand a better chance initially for a schengen or visa of that nature,
is to go through a local travel agency.
It is Ukraine, and the travel agencies  *seem* to have a higher success rate..  its' doubtful its the extra *fees* paid
but hey.. whatever works.

[ECOCKS]

Davey:

I think you're trying to hard on this.

I don't know how many trips you were thinking about but you should easily be able to get to Poland in winter for skiing or Bulgaria for summer beach fun on the Black Sea either at Sozopol or the Gold Coast area north of Varna. Then go to Czech Republic and relax in Prague or Karlovy Vary on agency trips to build a solid travel history. At no time was my wife asked for information about her bank, although on the second trip to Poland they made her go to the bank and buy $300 in traveler's checks (which we subsequently proved unable to use and cashed back in) and come back and show to them as evidence of cash to pay for incidentals.

We did this and eventually her 5 year US tourist visa was a breeze - 4 minutes in the interview, visa 4 days later by courier.

[daveyj]

Ecocks, I appreciate the advice.  Maybe you're right, and I'll be delighted if it turns out to be easier than we think.  But for the time being I figure better safe than sorry.  My gf is 30, has no assets, is an artist working freeleance and getting paid cash, her family is old school soviet with no connections, assets, business,etc and until recently with me she had never visited a visa required in advance country.   So we're trying to create a document trail for her.

We've currently got a tourist visa to the UK for January in process, and we'll hear from them in a couple of weeks.  If that's a no-go (and I know that the UK is a very difficult tourist visa to get, but I'm a frequent UK visitor and I have family and business there), then we'll be hopefully going to Prague instead.  We'll see how the next few months play out.

[ECOCKS]

(Don't take this as a disagreement, picture it as a conversation over beers and wings.)

It's just the paper trail/documentation would hurt a US visa app and I think it would a Canadian one too. I knew the visa section supervisor at the Canadian Embassy in Kyiv, had beers with him and his wife a couple of times while doing pub nights at your Embassy and never had a clue that they were this different from the US mentality on the subject. All conversations basically indicated they were almost exactly like the US evaluation criteria.

My thought is that it would show the exact opposite of stability for a tourist visa issuance. It would show her as dependent on a Canadian BF for her lifestyle and seem to increase the chances for her to be dependent and unwilling to return to her country.

As for other Shengen's, my wife (and part of that time, GF) was never asked for bank records for Poland, Czech Rep., Bulgaria or Romania. When applying for the US tourist visa, her papers showing ownership of two apartments were not looked at and there was no comment on employment statements or request to see her workbook. The comment from the US staff I knew was that they knew these could be forged as needed and were unverifiable anyway so why look at them.

I'm absolutely agreeing that building a progressively responsible travel history is a basic part of increasing the odds for success. As several others indicate, it also serves you well in building a body of shared experiences and memories as you grow your relationship with the gal.

I'd be very interested in knowing how this turns out long-term and whether at the end of it you feel certain actions (or lack thereof) helped or hindered your apps along the way.

Best of luck!

[ML]

I agree with Ecocks.  You are thinking 180 degrees out of whack here for USA and Canada visa.

As I understand it, these two countries are completely different from other countries re the visitor visa requirements.

For some European countries, the FSU people must get someone in that European country to put  up statements of financial support, etc.

For USA, they don't want such statements.  They want the person to show that they are financially self sufficient.

USA views everyone as a potential immigrant or a visa 'overstayer.'  They want some sort of proof or evidence that a particular individual is unlikely to be an overstayer.

And advice that is found in other such threads here is completely wrong.  Some have known business colleagues, etc., who told the whole truth and nothing but the truth and got the visa to enter USA.  So they recommend that route.

But the situation is entirely different for a woman with an American boyfriend.  Such person will automatically be viewed as a potential immigrant, not merely a tourist.  US says that is OK, but you  must go the Fiance visa route rather than the tourist visa route.

Conclusion . . . woman's chances go down for USA tourist visa if any hints seen regarding American boyfriend.

I know many are not answering the OPs question about how to get money to his gal; but that is because same are thinking he is wrong in his analysis.

I know you can send $300 bucks to almost any country in the world via MoneyGram for $9 and some pennies.  Doesn't seem too costly.

[daveyj]

I agree with Ecocks.  You are thinking 180 degrees out of whack here for USA and Canada visa.

I think you and Ecocks have perhaps misunderstood.  We're not talking about using the banking paper trail as evidence in support of her getting a tourist visa to visit me at home in Canada.  Please see my post from yesterday, the beginning of which I post here below...

I know exactly what you mean, and I would agree with you if we were using this to apply for a tourist visa for her to visit me in Canada.  But rather we're applying for tourist visas for other countries

And with respect to your advice on the money transfer

I know you can send $300 bucks to almost any country in the world via MoneyGram for $9 and some pennies.  Doesn't seem too costly.

Sure, Western Union or Moneygram would cost about $10 - $15.  Or she could just use the credit card I gave her for a cash advance for $5.  But neither of those provides the direct deposit option that I am looking for that we previously had via Liqpay. Thx anyway.

[daveyj]

Ecocks, I appreciate the advice.  Maybe you're right, and I'll be delighted if it turns out to be easier than we think.  But for the time being I figure better safe than sorry.  My gf is 30, has no assets, is an artist working freeleance and getting paid cash, her family is old school soviet with no connections, assets, business,etc and until recently with me she had never visited a visa required in advance country.   So we're trying to create a document trail for her.

We've currently got a tourist visa to the UK for January in process, and we'll hear from them in a couple of weeks.  If that's a no-go (and I know that the UK is a very difficult tourist visa to get, but I'm a frequent UK visitor and I have family and business there), then we'll be hopefully going to Prague instead.  We'll see how the next few months play out.

Some good luck has come our way, and I'm happy to say that my Gf's tourist visa to the UK has been approved. 

It took less than one week from when we submitted the documents - quite remarkable.  I have to give credit to the UK Visa online process, and the VFS operation in Kyiv.

Now I need to keep my fingers crossed that she doesn't dump me as soon as she lands on British soil! (...I'm joking...)

[mendeleyev]

Manny, didn't know your name was "Dick" especially after giving a good answer to the original question.  Guess the rules are to offer advice but don't ask questions, no matter how politely phrased.

At the risk of also being renamed Dick, this shouldn't be rocket science although in knowing more than just a little something about how visas work, I'm also wondering as to whether it will accomplish the intended purpose.

First, she needs to open a simple account at a bank affiliate of Electron cards (Visa). A good one would be Ukraine's Finance and Credit bank (also known as UniCredit bank). She will be issued a card before walking out the door. No minimum locally but for worldwide banking privileges the account should maintain a minimum daily balance of $200 USD.

She can obtain a second card (for your use but in her name) for just UAH 40. Annual maintenance on the card is 60 UAH. No fees for using UniCredit ATMs in Ukraine, 1.5% at other ATMs including worldwide.

As she would naturally know, she must have her internal password and ID number with her at account opening. Once home she can register on-line for Internet account management (giving you the password) and deposits can be made from anywhere in the world on line. Bluntly, the on-line provisions were fashioned after a series of meetings between the Finance Ministers of Ukraine and Canada and designed to make it easier for Canada's large Ukrainian diaspora to send money back home.

The Bank is recognized as the Agent Bank of the Cabinet of Ministers of Ukraine for the servicing of the international Lines of Credit so it's about as safe as one can expect.

http://www.fcbank.com.ua/private/i_bank/

[ML]

Once home she can register on-line for Internet account management (giving you the password) and deposits can be made from anywhere in the world on line. Bluntly, the on-line provisions were fashioned after a series of meetings between the Finance Ministers of Ukraine and Canada and designed to make it easier for Canada's large Ukrainian diaspora to send money back home.

Thanks for what sounds like great info.

However, how would one deposit money into this account from 'anywhere in the world?'
Wouldn't the deposit have to be through some bank that had a correspondent relationship with the Ukr bank?

[GTR_RMP]

No affiliation between banks is necessary.  I even wired money to a Russian bank account through my broker so it doesn't have to be a bank.

[ML]

Yes, wire transfers are well known.  However, Mendeleyev seems to be suggesting something much different from a wiretransfer.

[mendeleyev]

Bank wires, transfers, online automatic billpays, etc, and one should read the bank website info on deposits. Most of us have done some travel and needed to make an ATM deposit when away from our bank. Another way is to establish an international money transfer account (like Paypal, but with one that does business in the FSU) where deposits are swept into the bank account of choice. As long as it's legal within your home country's guidelines.

[ML]

Most of us have done some travel and needed to make an ATM deposit when away from our bank.

Yes, but the question still is; how do you do this?