Novosibirsk Doesn't Believe in Tears: TwoBit's Sixteen Days In Novosibirsk

[I/O]

That would require some sincere interest in what women have to say about their wants or needs.  For TBB, it's not relevant.  His dating game is a one-man show; the ladies are but talking props.

B/F, is this not perhaps true of each and every one of us (Men and Women) to at least some small extent until or if we happen across "the" person who really touches our buttons?

[Gator]

RW are different from AW in some key ways.  Two examples are having bountiful pride  and not dwelling on past relationships.

Another example is very applicable to this thread - all the RW I dated over 6 years, who spoke reasonable English, shared a common trait that none beat around the bush. 

Straight, direct, pragmatic talk without ambiguities.  They told me what was on their mind.  Sometimes tenderly, sometimes in controlled anger.  I cherish this because this is the way I am.  Even their lies (which were rare) were direct. 

In such a culture, I don't understand how evasive, contrived ploys would work well. 

I did not need tricks.  As Blues Fairy just commented, I did attempt to understand what women wanted.  In my target age group, most wanted a brand new life and an interesting man to spend it with, a man who would stand beside them.  All were willing to work at almost anything.
 

[Patagonie]

I agree.  I want to date women, not men that think they know how to date women.  I have always thought it is good to go to the source for that type of information.

And Chatsworth GONE!!!!  Oh the loss (imagine tears running down my cheeks)... Those rocky hills have a lot of very cool places to take a girl you just met down in the park.  Sigh... at least I have the memories.

For AW especially (because they are some cultural differences with RW), and also because marriage course  must use a wiser way in particular after few meetings, i would say :
My personnal experience is i spent 30 years with girls and woman, listening her carefully and trying to understand them. I read a lot of psychology books too since my fourteen. This two ways are irrelevant. I had lost my time, books are better but not the last solution.
If i have a friend who want to have more success with women (a man of course), i would say to him the last stupid thing to do is to take lessons with a woman coach. Why : they don'tknow exactly by what they are attracted and if they know they wouldn't tell you especially because a large part of her true nature is based on her private picture rather than on her public picture.

[Jooky]

My personal experience is i spent 30 years with girls and woman, listening her carefully and trying to understand them. I read a lot of psychology books too since my fourteen. This two ways are irrelevant.

I mostly agree. I think you can learn more from observing and experiencing. Listening... not so much. Trying to understand. Forget that, especially if you have a logical clockwork mind.

At least where I grew up, and as TwoBit also noticed women will say they want the opposite of what they really choose.

The biggest complaint from my lady friends: "Why can't I find a nice guy?!" 
My answer: "Because you don't like them." 

If women can't put a finger on what attracts them:

The reason here is that there is something in this particular man that attracts women. Don't ask me what  I don't know, BUT I immediately feel it as a woman. MY female instincts tell me this.

How can we learn from what they say? Better to learn from what they do and who they actually choose.

I will say one thing. I have met some women in Russia that have surprised me by expressing exactly what they really want in a man, and it wasn't the typical "I just want a nice guy" type of junk I've heard too many times back home.

[Aloe]

I just want a handsome sex god who is absolutely faithful to me and loves me more than anything or anyone else in the world. Is that too much to ask? Preferably doesnt drink or do drugs or gamble. Oh and also must have opinion on things.

[GQBlues]

The biggest complaint from my lady friends: "Why can't I find a nice guy?!"  

It's been decades since I heard a woman (any woman) say that.  

The more contemporary remark heard through the 'O' channel is, "I'd rather have sex with a man within or about the first date, then spend the time to see if he's a nice guy. As oppose to wasting my time trying to find out if he's a nice guy before having sex, only to find out he 'sux' in it!".  

To me, that's far more direct, and certainly far more helpful in helping me better relate and 'understand' that women do in fact seek balance between reality and ideals just like I do - on any given Sunday. All I really need to 'understand' is when to tip the balance a bit from one over the other on demand and impromptu, then I react. The rest is really just too phocking easy after that.

Now, take the time to hang out with the boys, especially in these endeavor and these boards, you'll likely hear from 8 out of 10 things like these...

"All the women around me are fat. The slim/thin ones are taken. I go online and pick a thin one, and she's turns out to be 'fat' in real life. I don't like to date fat/ugly women which is why I'm going to Russia!"

But the truth is out there. I know it, you know it, they know it, everyone knows it - but no one really talks about it, or worst, admits it. The balance is way off scale with these men. Instead they get deeper into the mock by repeating things the agencies feed them, or worst, they begin to give each other 'dating advice'..

Will I benefit more learning to deal with women from women, or from these men how to deal with women? The sampling is contracted, I will admit; but I believe in this endeavor and recent exchanges, it's par for the course.

[Aloe]

The more contemporary remark heard through the 'O' channel is, "I'd rather have sex with a man within or about the first date, then spend the time to see if he's a nice guy. As oppose to wasting my time trying to find out if he's a nice guy before having sex, only to find out he 'sux' in it!".  

Sounds like a big slut Have sex with every single guy she goes out with on the first date? oi oi. Unless of course she only gets one date in half a year ?
If he sux at it, she could try teaching him what to do, instead of just dumping him

[Jooky]

Sounds like a big slut...

Yeah, I was going to say... how many women here would agree with the attitude GQ just posted?

"I'd rather have sex with a man within or about the first date, then spend the time to see if he's a nice guy. As oppose to wasting my time trying to find out if he's a nice guy before having sex, only to find out he 'sux' in it!".

If the women TwoBitBandit was meeting had taken that attitude, he would have been in heaven. 

Now, take the time to hang out with the boys, especially in these endeavor and these boards

Naw, I don't recommend that either, but I do recommend observing what choices women make insted of listening to what choices they say they would make, but never do.

[GQBlues]

Sounds like a big slut Have sex with every single guy she goes out with on the first date? oi oi. Unless of course she only gets one date in half a year ?  If he sux at it, she could try teaching him what to do, instead of just dumping him

It's metaphor presented as a sample, Aloe...but I'm certain you know what it is implying...ever wonder why women say they seek 'nice guys' then phocks the next badboy that comes walking by?

[Jooky]

ever wonder why women say they seek 'nice guys' then phocks the next badboy that comes walking by?

That's exactly what I'm saying...

Listen : "I want a nice guy."
Observe : "I want the bad boy!"

Basic stuff... right?

[GQBlues]

If the women TwoBitBandit was meeting had taken that attitude, he would have been in heaven.  :

I will speculate TBB was all tied up in knots with the how-tos and the Holy Frame 101s that he never took the time, or blatanly missed what Anna was already showing him. I don't know as I wasn't there, looking at Anna's eyes, watching her movements, hearing and listening to what she's saying...

What is obvious to me, and I'm sure to TBB, at those given Sundays with Anna. PUAs How-tos failed him. No?

[Aloe]

Women who fall for disfunctional men have some psychological issues.
If she just has sex, maybe its just for fun. But if she is in love with a disfunctional person then there definitely issues at play. By disfunctional i mean who cheat or beat them or abuse them in other ways

[Patagonie]

"At least where I grew up, and as TwoBit also noticed women will say they want the opposite of what they really choose."

Typical AW story, i have tons of sort of this story.
We are sixty persons to have a dinner and disco. Near to me, all along the dinner a female in her mid thirty was explaining about what she want for her romance : "oh i need a gentle, kind guy. I'm a real serious women and i want only serious relations, faithfulness is important, i need time to know people + many minutes of BS.
Two hours after she began to dance with the well known f**cker of the party. Four hours after she was in the car of the guy car in the car park all lights off (she already had the driving licence for your information).     This is the reality, this is experienced, this is not opinion, bla bla.

[SMS60]

I agree.  I want to date women, not men that think they know how to date women.  I have always thought it is good to go to the source for that type of information.

Common sense seems to tell you that. But take everything you hear with caution. Sometimes what a women says is totally diffirent from what she actually wants. This all has to do with emotions, feelings, fairy tales, ect..... you know.... normal women....compared to reality.

Keep this in the back of your head.

Never take relationship advice about dating women from women.

[Aloe]

"At least where I grew up, and as TwoBit also noticed women will say they want the opposite of what they really choose."

Typical AW story, i have tons of sort of this story.
We are sixty persons to have a dinner and disco. Near to me, all along the dinner a female in her mid thirty was explaining about what she want for her romance : "oh i need a gentle, kind guy. I'm a real serious women and i want only serious relations, faithfulness is important, i need time to know people + many minutes of BS.
Two hours after she began to dance with the well known f**cker of the party. Four hours after she was in the car of the guy car in the car park all lights off (she always have the driving licence for your information).     This is the reality, this is experienced, this is not opinion, bla bla.

she may be having sex with him, but she wont have his babies or make any kind of serious relationship with him, i bet. When you look for a relationship you look for one set of things. When you look for fun, you look for something different

[I/O]

I just want a handsome sex god who is absolutely faithful to me and loves me more than anything or anyone else in the world. Is that too much to ask? Preferably doesnt drink or do drugs or gamble. Oh and also must have opinion on things.

And............owns a self propelled vaccum cleaner?

[Aloe]

And............owns a self propelled vaccum cleaner?

scoooooooooooooobaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

[Patagonie]

she may be having sex with him, but she wont have his babies or make any kind of serious relationship with him, i bet. When you look for a relationship you look for one set of things. When you look for fun, you look for something different

You bet but
a lot of people don't CHOICE what they really need. A lot of people don't know by advance if it will be for fun or not.

[Jooky]

PUAs How-tos failed him. No?

I'm not sure. I'd like to sit down with TwoBit over a few beers and discuss. My guess is:

Some of the PUA tactics (playing hard to get) don't apply in Novo.

TwoBit was deploying a mix of tactics and his real self, like he says, creating a 'better self', in order to strike an initial attraction and open the door, but then settle into conversations where he was judging if these girls were compatible future partners or not.

He starts off on a date and there are some attraction games. Then he starts in with intellectual conversations about history or philosophy or whatnot. That's all great for gauging compatibility, but it's not the best way to get laid.

If he had followed through with the PUA 'game' his conversations would have been much more about teasing and generating sexual attraction, but getting laid wasn't his goal, so he only used that 'game' up to a certain point.

GQ, if you could figure out and write down what made it so easy for you to attract women you could make millions. Seriously, you should see what these former geek PUAs charge for their training camps!

[Aloe]

You bet but
a lot of people don't CHOICE what they really need. A lot of people don't know by advance if it will be for fun or not.

If you have sex with a known a-hole, im prtty sure you realize 100% that its for fun, cuz who wants to have a relationship with an a-hole? Only masochists maybe. Why do you deny that both men and women have lower standars when it comes for fun looking, compared to very high standards for someone they 'd marry or be in a long relationship? Sure some people will settle for low standards even there. But in general people have very high standards for someone to be in relationship with, compared to someone to bang for one night. Im pretty sure when a man or woman looks for fun all they need, generally, is an agreeable pretty body that will sleep with them immediately. Doesnt matter if he/she is stupid like a cork (russian expression) or cheats on every partner they have, cuz your not in relationship with htem and your not planning to be, and if offered the possiblity, would most likely refuse being in relationship with these people, but for purely fun purposes they are a great choice maybe. So if a woman says she needs a guy like this and that, and then goes off to sleep with an a-hole, it doesnt meant she doesnt know what she wants. I do not see any contradiction at all. It just means, like for all of us, that she uses different standards depending on a purpose she has for this person.

[Aloe]

You bet but
a lot of people don't CHOICE what they really need. A lot of people don't know by advance if it will be for fun or not.

Imagine this: You are looking for a fun night, so you set up a date with this drop dead gorgeous woman, but turns out that she is a bit stupid, or likes screaming at puppies and waitresses. But oh my good, look at her body, its to die for?!?! Will that hinder your purpose to sleep with her? Probably not. But you wouldnt have a relationship with her, would you?
Same goes for women. If she sees a super sexy guy, albeit a known a-hole, she may go and have sex with him for fun, but she wont be planning a relationship with him for sure, because he lacks the qualities she looks for and needs.

[Patagonie]

The problem is that you presuppose she knows that the guy is the f**cker guy of the evening. You presuppose he is a low value guy, BECAUSE he has a lot of success with girls and get laid often ? You are wrong.
For she, and for a lot of women, he is a valuable guy.
And this sort of women can spend many years loving this sort of man or trying to get his love (and to go farther i know one of her GF who stayed three years with him).

[Aloe]

The problem is that you presuppose she knows that the guy is the f**cker guy of the evening. You presuppose he is a low value guy, BECAUSE he has a lot of success with girls and get laid often ? You are wrong.
For she, and for a lot of women, he is a valuable guy.
And this sort of women can spend many years loving this sort of man or trying to get his love (and to go farther i know one of her GF who stayed three years with him).

if she has a GF who was with this guy for 3 years, she definitely knows if hes an a-hole, moreover, she knows a lot more about him than you do. You never know, maybe for the 3 years all she heard is how great he is in bed, and how awful a person he is? So why not get laid, if you hear for 3 yrs of his godly skills? Does that mean shes gonna try to be in a relationship with him? Not at all. Or maybe for 3 years she heard how awesome he is, and all the cool romantic stuff he does, and that he cheats. Maybe then she would go for a relationship, hoping she is awesome enough that he wont cheat? Possibilities are endless, and none of them show that she, like you ortrayed, is full of it. Maybe she is hoping he will get better, or maybe shes with him just for fun, who knows?

[Aloe]

The problem is that you presuppose she knows that the guy is the f**cker guy of the evening. You presuppose he is a low value guy, BECAUSE he has a lot of success with girls and get laid often ? You are wrong.
For she, and for a lot of women, he is a valuable guy.
And this sort of women can spend many years loving this sort of man or trying to get his love (and to go farther i know one of her GF who stayed three years with him).

And if she doesnt know hes an a-hole while in fact he is, then what was the purpose of your story, how she told you she wants this and that, and then went to have sex with the opposite? Whats the purpose of the story if she simply doesnt know?

[Patagonie]

if she has a GF who was with this guy for 3 years, she definitely knows if hes an a-hole, moreover, she knows a lot more about him than you do. You never know, maybe for the 3 years all she heard is how great he is in bed, and how awful a person he is? So why not get laid, if you hear for 3 yrs of his godly skills? Does that mean shes gonna try to be in a relationship with him? Not at all. Or maybe for 3 years she heard how awesome he is, and all the cool romantic stuff he does, and that he cheats. Maybe then she would go for a relationship, hoping she is awesome enough that he wont cheat? Possibilities are endless, and none of them show that she, like you ortrayed, is full of it. Maybe she is hoping he will get better, or maybe shes with him just for fun, who knows?

"I know perfectly he and she and all about their three years relation, but it's out of the topic.
The summarize of the section is here :
Common sense seems to tell you that. But take everything you hear with caution. Sometimes what a women says is totally diffirent from what she actually wants. This all has to do with emotions, feelings, fairy tales, ect..... you know.... normal women....compared to reality.

Keep this in the back of your head.

Never take relationship advice about dating women from women." SMS60