First Trip. Ticket to Simferopol in two weeks. Learning the hard way (long)

[kgh]

Hi Everyone,

I am actually nervous to post here.  Although I have gotten a lot of good information on this site, I've also seen how this group sometimes throws out some pretty harsh words and judgments.  That said, please be kind.  I know I've messed up.

I'm the guy who several years ago, before I found RWD, was sending money via WesternUnion for "translations" while I tried to get to know a girl from Dniper.  That was before I found the "10 commandments".  I've actually been interested in meeting people from CIS or FSU since I was a kid.  For the last 10 years I've been trying to meet someone with possible love interests/ marraige interests and I've found about every pit fall possible.  I've talked to all different kinds of girls, but never taken a trip to visit them.  Sometimes I might be writing to someone, but then started dating someone local or they would start dating someone of we just didn't click.  I only did that thinking the local girl had long term possibilities.  I have no problem dating locally, but with the girl I've been writing to, I finally decided that I wouldn't date locally until I could figure out if there was something to the 'girl in Ukraine'.

I had a profile on probably 10 websites and finally found Elena's Models which I really enjoyed talking to 'real' girls.  I was looking for girls late 20's to mid 30's who didn't have kids, but wanted a family.  Sporty, rock climbing, scuba diving, sky diving, hiking, camping, cycling, ... you get the idea, adventurous.  I'm 45 and I know some of you guys really like to jump on the guys looking for younger women.  My last girlfriend here was 24 when we started dating and a fun an interesting woman with a masters in geology.  So I do date younger women here also.  But I still want to meet people from FSU and like I said, I decided to stop dating here to find out if I might be able to find a great girl in FSU.

So, this girl from uadreams wrote me and I wrote back very cynically because her letter was too forward to be 'real'.  Not thinking much about the way the conversation started or that a much younger woman was writing me, I actually responded with 'you have to convince me' to continue to keep writing to you.  She addressed everything I asked about and the conversation seemed very real.  I've been writing to this 23 year old girl for 18 months or so.  I've I know, way too long without meeting her or getting her contact info.  I tried to arrange a trip about 3 months in, but she asked for a later date when we knew each other better.  Then because of life issues I was not able to arrange a trip for 6 months later, then that fell through.  Then I suggested New Years, then Spring and she suggested Summer, which I was trying to avoid, but reluctantly agreed.  So now we are 18 months later, I've been paying through the nose to continue talking to her and now that I've purchased a trip plan through the agency.  Which was the only way I could meet her.  In one of her most recent letters she wrote that she and her sister needed to take a summer job in a different town, either Saki or Sudak to help her family with finances.  She has not asked for money, but every letter and photo has a cost.  From what I've read here, uadreams was Confidential Connections and is known for paying students to write to candidates.  I purchased the minimum 3 day/2night plan to be introduced, have an interpreter, and accommodations. I was hoping when I planned this that I could work with the girl, find new accommodations then hang out with her for 2 weeks and see various places around Crimea.

Now that I see my WOVO vacation falling apart, I am hoping to still go and have a good time.  I'd like to see Crimea.  I'm thinking about trying to meet some women from EM, but like to focus on learning how to get around and seeing some cool places over trying to force meeting some girls.  I've read about scuba diving some wrecks off the coast in Sevastopol, going to the caves near Simferopol, para-sailing off the cliffs near Feodosiya, and I'm open to some other activities.  Totally flexible on plans and locations.

I've done a bit of traveling.  I've gone to Western Europe a couple of times and just rode the train and had a very laid back plan to see the sights as I wandered around. 

I'm interested in hearing your ideas for guides/ interpreters, places to stay, places to see and things to do.  I am going to contact Stirlitz in Odessa and see if he has any ideas.  My flight gets into Simferopol 12 July and I really have no confidence in the package that I've purchased from uadreams.  So as you guys talk about on this site, I'm working on my back up plan.

I hope this posts makes sense.  If I've not made sense or if you need more information, please ask.  Thanks for your ideas and advice in advance.

Thanks,
Kenny

[sjg-uk]

Good luck with your trip to Ukraine - I love it here. I can't offer much advise for you for Crimea, but I do know another English guy who has lived there for about 4 years. He is in the same business as me and is also married to a Ukrainian , like myself. If you want I can put you in contact with him. Just let me know.
All the best, Simon.

[Shadow]

No need for harsh words here... you already seem to know where you went wrong.
Now that you have planned to go anyway, and you already invested enough cash not to be shy of some more, make the trip and get to know the people and culture.

I am sure you will like it, and there can be chances you bump in to someone when you least expect it. I am sure that somewhere around here you can find some contacts and agencies to set you up with some dates.

Keep you expectations low, and the result will always be a high.

[ML]

I am very perplexed by your OP.  Don't mean to sound harsh, but I just can't believe a man of your age has messed around so long with something so silly. 

There are thousands of real women out there on Singles.ru, freepersonals.ru etc.  It costs zero dollars to contact them, set up dates, etc.

You could already have 10-20 dates set up, yet you are going to wander around for x days in Crimea with your finger up your butt.

[tim 360]

STOP.  You are dealing with a scam agency.  Re-think everything.  Forget uadreams aka CC.

[Gtex]

You should enjoy Crimea; sounds like you have done some research on the entertainments.  You are going in full-on high season madness.   Watch your bucks as only money talks in this time.  There will be gorgeous woman everywhere.   Without language you are out of luck.  Stirlitz will make Odessa easy, and it is not an easy place; perhaps even slightly predatory. 
See Yalta but stay someplace else.  Have Stirlitz research/find a terp in Crimea.  Work the local agencies for Sevastopol and Simferopol by phone before arriving so you can review their women.  Try to use you independent terp rather than an agency for accommodations and dates.
Better deals from Alushta then north up the coast.  You may not find her, but you will fall in love with where she lives and that should help (someday!).

[Daveman]

You could already have 10-20 dates set up, yet you are going to wander around for x days in Crimea with your finger up your butt.

We cannot be sure of the absolute positioning or proximity of the finger/butt relationship as that particular correlation could hinder the very ability to wander effectively.  

Seriously though, if you still have the EM account, then let a few in the area know you are going to be there and meet.  You can also just show up at an agency and meet (Cindy Agency has a great rep, but I don't know if there's a branch in Simferopol).  You could try singles.ru/mamba but that could be wasted effort at this late date due to the lack of time available to sort through it all.  

My suggestion would be to hook up with an agency there in one or more cities you want to visit and just meet some ladies without writing first (except to the agency(ies) with your profile and travel info if you want, or just show up and do everything there), and without any expectations of finding "the one" while enjoying the trip. Also, women are easily approachable there (though finding ones who speak English will be a little more random) and the summer months flood Crimea with vacationing ladies from all over.  The drawback is that the buses/marshrutkas/trolleys can be backed up and busy and accommodations can be tricky to find on short notice.

It'll be a bit haphazard due to the lack of advanced planning but should be a interesting vacation and should also be salvageable as a blast if you have two weeks to work with.  Contacting Stirlitz wouldn't hurt either.

I can't list any reputable agencies in Crimea because I just don't know, but perhaps some others do.

STOP.  You are dealing with a scam agency.  Re-think everything.  Forget uadreams aka CC.

Yep, but it sounds like he's arrived at the same conclusion already.

[ECOCKS]

I cannot believe you let them suck you into 18 months of being strung along on paid communications and an "Agency Introduction Package" to meet this girl.

You say you read and appreciated the 10 Commandments but how many have you violated?

Once more, GET COMMUNICATIONS UNDER YOUR CONTROL AND AWAY FROM THE AGENCY. This is one of the most basic of all rules for determining whether there is a real relationship in progress.

20+ year age gaps? Being talked into delaying your vacation 3 seasons?

Yes, you are hung up in the fantasy not pursuit of a real relationship.

As mentioned by a couple of others, get on EM if you want to save your vacation. Be rational and realistic with your age range, and find some dates which have promise for possible real relationships IF THAT IS WHAT YOU REALLY WANT.

If you're really a sex tourist wannabee but too embarrassed to admit it then book yourself some dates with more 20-24 year olds, send them lots of gifts, WU them travel expenses and have them come meet you for 2-3 days each down in Crimea. You'll have a heck of a vacation memory and you can begin adding to the thread on "the Girlfriend Experience" which many are now confessing to enjoying.

[kievstar]

Book a hotel for one night in Crimea through anastiaweb.  This will get you the office address of the anastiaweb in Crimea location.  Not sure how many offices anastiaweb has in Crimea but Sevastopol maybe a good city.  Your goal is to spend a little money with the agency to meet real women.  Spend on hotel.

Than get friendly with the office workers (bring some chocolate as gifts). Ask them directly who do they think will be good women for you.  If you come across as a good guy who is not greedy they will pick out sincere women for you.  I do think your 45 so no one under 31 years old for you.  If you want 20 year old women unless your rich or very good looking it will be a pipe dream.

Notice no letter or video chatting through anastiaweb.  Just one night hotel upfront but access to real women.  From there you negotiate locally with the marriage agency with face to face.  Come across as a good guy dating in your league and good things will happen. 

You should target 31 to 35 year old women with no children.  When you go more than 15 years age range in 2010 and your 45  you have to bring a lot more to the table to stay in the same league.

50% of the women in Sevastopol anastiaweb probably do not live in Crimea.  That is why you ask them which women are good for you.  Agree to meet 2 women they pick even if there nothing what you want.  Never complain.  Make the relationship with the agency and they will provide sincere women in your league.  Hopefully you have a league you like.

[Turboguy]

Hi Everyone,

I am actually nervous to post here. 

I don't blame you for being nervous.  Sometimes we can be a little hard on guys who seem to be heading for a train wreck and I hate to say it but to me it looks like you are.  Truthfully I will be surprised if the lady you have been writing turns into anything except an expensive learning experience but I could be wrong.

I think as far as this trip goes the best hope for salvaging it might be Sterlitz.  I would suggest you get on some other sites such as Elena's, Merry Dating, or any of the other good sites and make contact with a lot of women in the area you are going and tell them you are planning a trip soon.  This may give you some real women to meet. 

[Misha]

I've been paying through the nose to continue talking to her and now that I've purchased a trip plan through the agency.  Which was the only way I could meet her. 

Perhaps that is the problem? The agency wants you to talk as they make money and when you actually have paid for the trip, you then discover that she can't meet with you. IMHO, you would have been much better up using the mamba network. Read TwoBit's trip report and see how many women he has been meeting using mamba. I can't see why you can't do the same 

[Daveman]

Perhaps that is the problem? The agency wants you to talk as they make money and when you actually have paid for the trip, you then discover that she can't meet with you. IMHO, you would have been much better up using the mamba network. Read TwoBit's trip report and see how many women he has been meeting using mamba. I can't see why you can't do the same 

Well, both you and TBB communicate easily in Russian...  I think he could do the same if a) he could speak/understand Russian or B) Had more time to sort out profiles, send emails, locate English speakers etc, narrow down to reciprocal interest in meeting, run the gauntlet.. If he could devote several hours a day to the task he could probably find a few prior to his trip.. doable - yes... and not a bad idea... just not sure he has enough time to pull it off.

[Misha]

just not sure he has enough time to pull it off.

Of course, he would have been much better off spending the last 18 months finding the women that speak English on the mamba network, but hindsight is 20/20 of course. However, he has 2 weeks left. If he spends a few hours every day looking for women who speak some English, he should be able to find one or two women (at the very least). He just needs a simple, straight-forward message that he can cut and paste and send off to as many women as possible and see who responds. Anastasia could certainly help him translate it into Russian. It is always easier, however, to come up with excuses than to take action 

[Daveman]

Of course, he would have been much better off spending the last 18 months finding the women that speak English on the mamba network, but hindsight is 20/20 of course. However, he has 2 weeks left. If he spends a few hours every day looking for women who speak some English, he should be able to find one or two women (at the very least). He just needs a simple, straight-forward message that he can cut and paste and send off to as many women as possible and see who responds. Anastasia could certainly help him translate it into Russian. It is always easier, however, to come up with excuses than to take action 

Point made.... ok kgh.. get the finger outta the butt, wander over to mamba and start sending them emails!  Using a translator to help compose an opening letter is a great idea... Fire it to every one who appears interesting in the cities around Crimea you want to visit.    And keep the agency numbers as an option too... just cover as many bases as you can.  Seeing the country is wonderful and all that.. but seeing it with a pretty guide is exponentially better. 

[Voyager36]

Good luck with your trip to Ukraine - I love it here. I can't offer much advise for you for Crimea, but I do know another English guy who has lived there for about 4 years. He is in the same business as me and is also married to a Ukrainian , like myself. If you want I can put you in contact with him. Just let me know.

I've been to crimea 6 times, and seen just about every part of it, from Sevastopol to Kerch.
If you have any questions I'd be happy to try to answer.

[Gator]

I purchased the minimum 3 day/2night plan to be introduced, have an interpreter, and accommodations.

Kenny, you got some harsh words.  Don't people realize that nobody likes a "I told you so."   Now that you are going, make the best of it.  Relax and you will have a good time, but maybe not realize the fantasy.  

This sounds like a bait and switch.  So meet a few women from the agency.  However, pursue other options.  Call Stirlitz.  There are other agencies.  Find their office and walk in (as Kievstar suggested).  Best to call beforehand because finding their office door is rarely simple.

Search some large listing agencies for local women.  EM for sure.   RussianEuro too.   (Even Angelica, A Foreign Affair, Fiance.com - none of whom I would recommend if you had more time).  Join one and send short messages to every woman in the city.  A few will bite.

You will do fine, and certainly will not be walking around with a digit inserted up your anus.  In that theme, just make sure you don't sit on your thumbs.

[Voyager36]

I'm interested in hearing your ideas for guides/ interpreters, places to stay, places to see and things to do.  

I was going to give you a "top 10" list, but I got to 16 and figured I'd better stop. 
If you need a good affordable guide/interpreter, I can recommend one.

Things to do in Crimea
In Yalta there are 3 different "dvoretz" there which is like a mansion or palace.
1. Massandra - this one was my favorite
2. Alupka - Each side of the palace has a different architectual style
3. Livadia - this is famous for hosting Churchill at the Yalta conference

4. Take the small cable car that goes up right from Yalta. There is a restaurant on top
5. There is a waterpark in Yalta, and another in Alushta

Sevastopol
6. Panorama - an interesting museum about the history of the Crimean war.
7. Diorama - museum about the Siege of sevastopol WWII
both museums feature a massive wall sized painting. presentations in English too
8. Chersoness. Ruins of an ancient Greek city, over 2,000 years old

also see
9. Simferopol (near) There are 2 huge underground cave systems. Red Cave.
10. Take a cable car ride up the mountain Al Pietri
11. Take a winery tour & tasting at Koktebel (don't plan to drive home!)
12. See the famous small castle "Swallow's nest
13. Try parasailing or seadoo at the beach, Alushta or Fedosia
14. Visit the Khan's Palace at Bachasarai (Capital of 16th century Crimean Khanate)
15. Visit the Uspensky Cave Monastery
16. Explore Sudak's 14th century crusader castle. In july there is a Medieval festival
(picture below)

Pictures: Sudak Castle, Cave Monestary, Swallow's Nest
(note - I've been to every single one of these, but it took me many trips)

[philb]

I just returned from a 5 week stay in Ukraine which included, among other things, a 10 day road trip through Crimea.  Hotels will be pricey during the summer.  In fact, I think that the vast majority of hotels are over priced there particularly around Yalta.

My wife and I did the home stay thing.  Sudak 50 griv per person a night, Yalta more like 120 griv.  The other towns along the coast will fall in between.  The place we stayed in Sudak is directly at the foot of the hill where the castle is.

The one thing to consider is that a lot of things get fully booked in the summer.  This includes train tickets.  So I would suggest moving quickly. 
My wife and I brought a couple of ultra light sleeping bags and bivy shelters as a back-up.

Inland things will be cheaper than on the coast.  I think we paid 55 griv total for a home stay in a town not far from Bakchisari (sp?).   

Things to do?  There are plenty.  In addition to the ones mentioned above, I would recommend Mangup Kale,  hiking the "Big Canyon", mountain biking anywhere in Crimea,  horseback riding, I could go on.  All of these things can be done fairly reasonably with a little work.

I can't give you any info on agencies and the like since I have been married for a few years now.  What I can tell you is this, there will be plenty of women to meet.  I have been to the Black Sea area in both Russia and Ukraine several times and there are always many beautiful single women there.

[kgh]

Hello All,

I stopped the bleeding before I wrote the post.  I already feel better. 

I've tried to start a detailed response several times and I keep getting distracted.  I see how I'm perceived and it's hard to reply.  First of all, Thank you to everyone who responded.  I appreciate your comments.  Big thanks to you guys who have understood what I was trying to do and have given me some GREAT ideas of things to see.  Thank you also to those guys/ gals who have read my post and thought "this guy is a train wreck" and decided not to say anything.  I will be getting back to some of you via a PM where it was offered or where people have written to me directly.  The last few days have been very crazy for me and I'm playing catch up. 

Some of the delay in getting away from the agency and meeting in person was delayed by me.  I have moved twice in that same period of time.  With this agency, (uadreams, ualady, confidential connections) the only way to get personal info from someone is to meet in person.  I have also delayed somethings because of job demands (so it wasn't always her) and honestly, I kept wanting to make it a 'perfect visit'.  I wanted to plan for a great visit and a time that would work well for her. 

It's always easier to pass judgments on people when they give you all the facts and you're on the outside looking in with 20/20 hindsight.  How did I get here?  It's easy and complicated.  The simple answer is that I liked how she wrote/talked to me.  Interesting letters, inquisitive, answered my questions, she tried to explain things in her life.  We wrote 6 letters a week each and only mentioned the weather occasionally.  There was so much to talk about!  I know some of you won't believe that.  I know of many guys who don't know what to say to a woman after a few hours or a few letters.  It was nice.  As I said, I've been writing to people a long time.  From the time I had foreign pen pals as a kid to the years I've been communicating with women in FSU.  Also, for those that didn't read all my post, I was looking for older women and I didn't fall in love with a photo.  She was just average looking, (and I didn't find her profile or photos anywhere else) it was how she communicated that I really liked.  I really knew thing were not right, but hoped it was the agency and not her.  So I held on to a glimmer of hope.  I have contacted women on Singles.ru, freepersonals.ru and and some other free ones.  I'm learning Russian on livemocha and a private tutor.  Maybe that will help.  I also have a profile on Vkontakte.ru where I've written to women. Haven't put a profile on mamba, but I have checked it out.  Do you really want me to list the 15 to 20 sites I have tried?  I didn't think so.  (even sent money via western union for translations to someone from freepersonals...years ago).  Before RWD.  Seems people just assumed that I hadn't tried something that might have worked for them instead of asking.  It's hard to write everything in one small post and we're not all the same.  Maybe most of you wouldn't have fallen for this 'scam', but I'll bet you've made other mistakes in your life that I wouldn't have made.  Everything I've gone through and all the money I've spent has been a lot less then those who have gone through a divorce.  It's an inexpensive mistake comparatively...  It's not like I'm Mr. Moneybags, but looking at the big picture, .... lesson learned.  No alimony.  I get the house AND the car.

Now as some of you understood, I just want to go and have fun.  Life's an adventure.  I look forward to learning how to get around and seeing some beautiful sights.  If I meet someone special, great.  If I don't that's okay too.  Maybe some of the Top 10+ List from above and some of the other great suggestions.  I don't want to 'line up dates' like interviewing candidates for a job opening.  I do appreciate learning how it might work by walking into a decent agency, but I'm just not there, yet.  Maybe I will be later in life.  I prefer the WOVO mindset or just dating one person.  I've dated multiple women in college.  You don't tell 'em, they find out eventually and.. well fireworks.  You tell them and they either act funny (quit or become competitive) and you really don't get to know  them like you wanted to.  And eventually someone always gets hurt.  So I'm a serial monogamist (aka serial romantic) and I'll put everything I can into that relationship at the time.  That's just me.  When I find girl who is a fit for me.  I'll be off the market and I'll remove 'serial' from that description.  I know some of you only see it as a 'numbers game' and prefer the shotgun approach.  Have fun with that, I'll just agree to disagree.

So thanks again everyone!  Since some of you were so respectful, I'll just put my flame suit on.  Asking to not be slammed didn't work, so Fire Away...

Respectfully,
Kenny

[TheTraveler]

I tried to arrange a trip about 3 months in, but she asked for a later date when we knew each other better.

kgh, that was a huge red flag.  I read that as: "No, I don't want to meet you... But I do want to keep our emails going while my "agency" drains your wallet."

The vast majority of CIS girls are going to want to meet as soon as possible.  (Ask yourself why would a girl want to risk losing you to another girl who is willing to meet sooner?)  Any girl with empathy knows that it's both costly to travel from the US to a CIS country and wise to get to know the girl better before committing to a trip... so they will generally wait patiently.  But the idea that she wanted to put off meeting you is bizarre.

I truly hope that you have success.  But like many others above on this thread, I caution (strongly) against these agency-in-the-middle situations.

When it's just you and a girl (or girls) writing, and you are not paying anyone a dime, your risk of being used as a money faucet drop dramatically.  I think that's all anyone here is trying to say.

In the time leading up to my meeting my lovely wife, I had a few guiding principles (that was long before RWD and the 10 Commandments).  But on one of those principles, I was absolutely 100% inflexible --- I would not send money to anyone.  I wouldn't pay any agencies... I wouldn't pay for translations... I wouldn't pay for any girl's internet cafe bills... -- And not because I was a cheapskate and not because I didn't have the money to do so.  It was simply to drive down the possibility of getting used and to drive up the chance of meeting a girl with genuine interest in me.

Good luck!

[Jack]

Nice post traveler.

May I ask what method, or how, did you meet your wife?

[kgh]

kgh, that was a huge red flag.  I read that as: "No, I don't want to meet you... But I do want to keep our emails going while my "agency" drains your wallet."

The vast majority of CIS girls are going to want to meet as soon as possible.  (Ask yourself why would a girl want to risk losing you to another girl who is willing to meet sooner?)  Any girl with empathy knows that it's both costly to travel from the US to a CIS country and wise to get to know the girl better before committing to a trip... so they will generally wait patiently.  But the idea that she wanted to put off meeting you is bizarre.

I truly hope that you have success.  But like many others above on this thread, I caution (strongly) against these agency-in-the-middle situations.

When it's just you and a girl (or girls) writing, and you are not paying anyone a dime, your risk of being used as a money faucet drop dramatically.  I think that's all anyone here is trying to say.

In the time leading up to my meeting my lovely wife, I had a few guiding principles (that was long before RWD and the 10 Commandments).  But on one of those principles, I was absolutely 100% inflexible --- I would not send money to anyone.  I wouldn't pay any agencies... I wouldn't pay for translations... I wouldn't pay for any girl's internet cafe bills... -- And not because I was a cheapskate and not because I didn't have the money to do so.  It was simply to drive down the possibility of getting used and to drive up the chance of meeting a girl with genuine interest in me.

Good luck!

Thank you!  I am looking for the 'genuine interest' person and didn't even see or think of the perspective that if someone delayed a meeting, they could possibly lose me to another who would meet me.

Really appreciated,
Kenny

[TheTraveler]

Nice post traveler.
May I ask what method, or how, did you meet your wife?

Thanks, Jack.

I met my wife online (without any of the agency-in-the-middle services) back in the early Summer of 2000, and we were married in the Fall of 2001.
I wrote about the 'how' in the ice-breaker forum the other day: http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=11871.0

[brad5959]

Hi kgh. 

I hope you have a great trip.  this is a link to a Russian hiking/rock climbing/multi pitch climbing/mountain bike guide in Crimea.  he speaks fluent english.

www.mt.crimea.com/ - Ukraine - Cached - Similar

I think Kievstar is giving the best advice as to how to meet some local ladies on the spot if your original lady does not work out.  you might also try veronikalove.com

they have a lot of ladies in Simferopol and Sevastapol.  they have a Ukrainian phone number listed.  when I was in Crimea I called them and they were going to introduce me to a lady I had only written to once, no problem at all.  I ended up not meeting her because I was romantically involved with another woman at the time, but to be honest I wish I had also met this other lady.

best wishes,
Brad

[swissfranky]

Hi kgh.
I am in Simferopol if you want to drink a beer or a juice :-) pm me.

@brad5959
Kievstar is a mobile phone supplier... have they a chatroom?