Are HRB and Anastasia really a Scam or another form of Therapy?

[Ravens9273]

Before I begin I am not taking a side to this debate nor started this thread as taking a side to the argument.
Recent threads concerning the two made me think and I decided to see what others thought.

I learned over the years there are two sides to the Men who go on this pursuit.
One side is the Men who are determined to find a RW. Those are also the Men who find their way to these forums.
Now on the other side we have the group of Men known as Keyboard Romeo's.

I think it is safe to say that most Keyboard Romeo's began this journey do to lack of confidence. Maybe they have never been good with Women. Shy and easily intimidated. Maybe they are recently divoriced and have been out of the dating game so long that they forgot how to date again.

To the Keyboard Romeo's I think these two agencies are the perfect Medacine.

What better way to build up the ego and confidence then to receive tons of letters from young beautiful Women?
Their system also makes it very easy for a Man to approach one of these ladies without being afraid or the fear of the embarrassment one may experience in a bar trying to pick up a lady.

Could these agencies be considered a form of therapy for those Men rebuilding their manhood and giving them the ability to reenter the world of dating right in their local area?

Could we really call it a scam if the Men did gain in theraputic reasons yet never got on a plane to visit the FSU?

Now towards the serious Man on this pursuit it is a scam. This Man is looking for a wife and the odds of obtaining one through either of these two agencies is slim to none. Would it help these two agencies reputation if they simply just put up a WARNING label to the serious Man Similar to what tabacco pruducts have to do?

Or Maybe the choose not to because most of the serious Men will not use their services to begin with due to knowing what the final outcome will already be.

So considering all. Pretty Much the Serious Man is not using these services with only a very few minor exceptions. As a whole their customers are the Keyboard Romeo's who are receiving therapy for a much cheaper price then going to a local shrink, and I would think that the results would be much better in building confidence back.

So are they really a scam is the question?
Have fun.

My final conclusion to the question is. It all depends on who their customer is.

[Sculpto]

I say yes because..

If they were only for fantasy purposes they could easily be like an adult web cam site... and no one would get hurt.. guys could indulge in their fantasies.. girls could get paid.. but.. n deceptions involved..

some of the adult sites even have this category.. here is a well known example..

http://www.camcontacts.com/homepage.html

This site has a variety of pay to chat categories.. some are hardcore.. but there are also "friends only" and "seeking marriage".

So, why do HRB and Anastasia insist on peddling a fantasy? 

[Shadow]

Both companies are nothing but a successful business model.

I have little knowledge of the working, however what I have learned over the years is that both HRM and Anastasia use a model where they operate only one end of the business.
Both are only responsible for bringing in the men, and interested in letting the men be member as long as possible. As men pay for their membership, the longer they are member the more money they pay.

From the FSU side both seem to work through local agencies taking part in the franchise. This is where the interesting parts begin. Local agencies are the ones who provide the products, and get a large part of the rewards. By rewarding the local agencies for the actions taken, the more local agencies get traffic, the more they earn.
As the idea of local agencies is always to get maximal earnings with minimal effort, they have figured out soon enough that most eraning do not come from visitors, but from men chasing fantasies. This poses them with the problem that sincere women might get desillusioned, where as less sincere would try to takethem out in order to clean out the men. To prevent this, the "no contact" restrictions have been put in place, and also by offering the women a cut of the earning they keep them inside the agency.

You can not judge this as good or bad, just as you can not claim selling a piece of chopped meat with a piece of lettuce and two parts of dough for $5 is a scam. People should know what they pay for and what are the risks.

As long as HRB and Anastasia keep paying their agents by transaction, these practices will continue, no matter how many times they would cut off an agent caught in operating a business without any husband seekers.
But as long as they make a whole lot more on those transactions as on the actual success of finding a partner, they are not likely to stop their business model.

We have in the past set up a draft for certified marriage agencies, with the idea to make a clear standard for ethical business practices, which if supported by the industry could result in shifting the good from the bad. Due to petty fights and the, god forbid, potential profit this was ridiculed, with the result there still is not any kind of standard that makes it possible for people to actually know what the business model of an agency is.

[kievstar]

I know nothing about HRB.  Not even sure if I ever have been in any of their offices so can not comment on them.

Anastiaweb does have strict rules on letter writing and an agency writer in a local agency can get fired or lose money for not following USA anastiaweb corporate policy.  Basically they do not want cookie cutter letters and want letters to be tailored toward the men the agency is writing.  Notice I mention agency worker.  Letters are rarely answered by the woman the man thinks he is writing too.  I think this is not a scam since your letter is answered.  They do not say your letter will be answered by the woman in the photo.

Letter writing is very important to fund the local agency so the serious men who actually visit the 26 to 45 year old women can get married.  The women 25 and younger is where most men make a mistake.

I used anastiaweb to find my wife and I paid no money to anastiaweb.  Not one dime. 

[SANDRO43]

Notice I mention agency worker.  Letters are rarely answered by the woman the man thinks he is writing too.  I think this is not a scam since your letter is answered. They do not say your letter will be answered by the woman in the photo.

Don't you think THAT should be stated prominently on their site, and/or in the letters they send ?

WARNING: This letter was answered by agency staff, not by the woman you wrote to.

But this could obviously be a bit of a put-off, possibly harmful to their "business model" . Your italicised sentence is like someone offering you poison to drink, then saying to your corpse: "I never said it'd be to your taste" . 

[Sculpto]

Shadow.. your points are well thought out and intelligent.. however.. you fail in one major aspect which renders the entire argument useless..

False advertising...

http://www.answers.com/topic/false-advertising

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/False+Advertising

None of us, to my knowledge anyway, are expert enough in the legal ramifications and legal speak to clarify and we are not judge and jury.. however...

This is exactly the point where guys get exceptionally upset when things go wrong.  The design of HRB and Anastasia sites and the marketing materials presented on the sites create a particular impression.  The details are in the fine print that few or no one reads.  It has been a while since i Have even looked at Anastasia, however, I am not sure it can even be easily found.. the disclaimers I mean.  HRB's are there.. but.. I have to tell you I didn't find them until months and months after being a member.. and once I did and I understood that I would have to spend hundreds more before being able to make direct contact I was furious that the policy was not IN BOLD ON THE FRONT PAGE.

So, lets make a distinction.. false advertising and outright scamming.. two separate categories.

[kievstar]

Sandro, true about poison.  But that is an illegal act to poison someone in most countries.  Agency workers writing on behalf of someone else is not an illegal act.

[brad5959]

I know nothing about HRB.  Not even sure if I ever have been in any of their offices so can not comment on them.

Anastiaweb does have strict rules on letter writing and an agency writer in a local agency can get fired or lose money for not following USA anastiaweb corporate policy.  Basically they do not want cookie cutter letters and want letters to be tailored toward the men the agency is writing.  Notice I mention agency worker.  Letters are rarely answered by the woman the man thinks he is writing too.  I think this is not a scam since your letter is answered.  They do not say your letter will be answered by the woman in the photo.

Letter writing is very important to fund the local agency so the serious men who actually visit the 26 to 45 year old women can get married.  The women 25 and younger is where most men make a mistake.

I used anastiaweb to find my wife and I paid no money to anastiaweb.  Not one dime. 

how is that possible??  it costs $10.00 to open a letter from a lady, and $10.00 to send one.  and the only way you can get her phone number is by calling her with their translators on a 3 way phone call, which costs $20 or more.

[tim 360]

I used anastiaweb to find my wife and I paid no money to anastiaweb.  Not one dime. 

How did you do that?

[Gator]

A scam?

People every day buy a fantasy of one sort or the other.  Should we call a lottery a scam?

There is one chance in a million that the lonely loser will marry the RW in the  photo.  Much better odds than the 1 in 10,000,000 of winning the lottery.  

We should have no sympathy for the man who never made the trip.  

What should we feel for the man who makes the trip and has a short, emotionless meeting with the RW in the photo.  Afterwards, I do hope that AWeb and HRB go out of their way to arrange meetings with serious women.

[SANDRO43]

But that is an illegal act to poison someone in most countries. Agency workers writing on behalf of someone else is not an illegal act.

Of course, my example was deliberately hyperbolic . However, deception is dishonest. I'm not a lawyer, but it could be a bordeline case of fraud if the recipient is not aware whose those words are, and he's made to pay to read them, too - adding injury to insult.

[Sculpto]

The Anastasia Experience
You have come to AnastasiaWeb, a place where people make acquaintances, develop relationships and find lasting love. Here, quality comes first and this is what you can expect once you join us.

You will contact and correspond with numerous beautiful Russian and Ukrainian brides.
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You will have a variety of supplemental services to develop your relationship into something greater.
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You have the opportunity to choose among the thousands of beautiful ladies on our site. We are often asked, "Why do so many beautiful women use AnastasiaWeb?" The reason is quite simple - one of our key principles is that AnastasiaWeb must be equally attractive to both the men and the women. This means providing quality service to ladies on our site as well. They receive the respect and attention they deserve, not to mention the fact that the men who use are services are known for their class and character. The fact that AnastasiaWeb has made a name for itself among the ladies is just one more sign that if you're with Anastasia, you're with the right people. Here quality comes first.

See the Beautiful Ladies who prefer AnastasiaWeb!

An Effective Way to Make a Connection
AnastasiaWeb is effective and easy to use:

Step 1. Register
Follow the simple sign instructions and place your Gentlemen's Profile free of charge
Step 2. Search the Ladies' Profiles
Use your numerous search options to view and select the ladies whose profiles match your interests.
Step 3. Correspond
Narrow your selection and compose and send the ladies an introductory letter. (Don't forget to check your Inbox to see the ladies who are interested in your profile).
Step 4. Making interesting acquaintances
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Our success is the success of those who have joined AnastasiaWeb and used our services. We take pride in our past, present and future. Anastasia Intl. humbly began in 1993, founded by people inspired by there success in bridging the continents. With a caring approach to this business and those who use our services, our focus on helping people communicate has not been lost. Our customer service staff is available to assist you 7 days a week in offices located in Moscow, Russia and Bangor, Maine, USA. Our values and commitment can be felt not only in how we work together but also in how we relate to those who use AnastasiaWeb.
------------------------------------

OK who wants to translate?    cut and pasted from A-Web

[kievstar]

Anastiaweb should just be used in the free mode to search women.  They have majority of women on it from EM, foreign affair, local agencies, etc. They have a great advanced search engine and huge population of women. 

Step 1 - find woman you want to meet on anastiaweb.  No searches on women under 25.  Never meet women under 25.  Its a good rule to follow. 
Step 2 - search for local agency for woman (not anastiaweb).  Anastiaweb web gives you city she lives in and makes it easier.  When I mean local I mean the agency the girl actually visited to sign up in person. 
Step 3 - See if that local agency has several other women 26 years and older your interested in.  There your backup plan.
Step 4 - Talk to members on RWD and people who have used that agency. Your making sure that the agency does have actual women and members have been there.  You may find that a member personally knows your girl.
Step 5 - call agency owner directly and inquire about the woman your interested in to makes sure your in her league and she is in your league (looks, income, interests, children, etc).  Tell him / her directly your serious and dating in your league.  A 55 year old man going to visit a 30 year old women is not going to be taken seriously. 
Step 6 - get on a plane and go.  No phone calls.  No letter writing.  Women love a man who shows up and is in her league and about action.
Step 7 - if woman 1 does not work.  Start seeing the backup women.
Note:  booking transport from airport to agency / hotel and booking hotel through agency helps you gain trust with the agency owner.  Bring some gifts for the agency workers.  You need to have very good relations with agency.  Never go cheap on them. 

I used the steps above to meet my wife.  Included talking with a member on this board who had previously met my wife on a date.  Talking with agency owner as well.  Only exception the agency my wife was in I thought all the other women were not attractive so my backup plan was flying to Kiev and going to a bachelor party.   I met wife and went to party.  Not one dime paid to Anastiaweb.  But without Anastiaweb never would have found my wife.  She was not on EM as she spoke no English. She does have a photo on main page of foreign affair. 

I am going to a small party this weekend with 3 other couples.  Anastiaweb was the reason for 3 and 1 was expat. 

[tim 360]

I m going to a small party this weekend with 3 other couples.  Anastiaweb was the reason for 3 and 1 was expat. 

Makes perfect sense Kievstar and others should try your method.

[veritas]

What better way to build up the ego and confidence then to receive tons of letters from young beautiful Women?

There's something that no one seems to have mentioned here, and THAT is:

What kind of IDIOT would actually BELIEVE that's he's receiving
"tons of letters from young beautiful [SINCERE] Women" in the FIRST place??

*I* didn't -- right from the very start -- and no one with even a modicum of sense WOULD ... 

Kevin 

[Eduard]

There's something that no one seems to have mentioned here, and THAT is:

What kind of IDIOT would actually BELIEVE that's he's receiving
"tons of letters from young beautiful [SINCERE] Women" in the FIRST place??

you'd be surprised how many guys come to me AFTER they spent a year or two on the 2 sites mentioned above. And many of these men are successful businessmen, smart when it comes to money but a complete dummy when it comes to women...

[ECOCKS]

When you are in a desperate state of denial as to your looks, advancing age and reality of life and career outcomes then find yourself single at the hands of your dumpy, post-menopausal former mate it is amazing how many can not only believe but actually begin building a new home on this foundation of sand.

Not surprising it happens at all, just sad for those onlookers who watch you hop aboard the train and barrel down the track and into the tunnel.....

(Hmmm, guess it's the other site with the train wreck emote.)

[percolator]

HRB/RLM is a legal scam read their terms and conditions for proof. 

If you're seriously looking for your wife you'll never find her on HRB/RLM because the girls there are paid by the agencies and have no intention of meeting you.  However; if you're lonely and desperate for someone to talk too and have NO desire of ever meeting the girls then go ahead and use HRB/RLM though there are many other sites which are far cheaper.

The CEO of HRB/RLM is desperately trying to defend his company here, but it's very interesting that he could not defend his company in my complaint filed with the BBB http://westflorida.app.bbb.org/complaint/view/67148277/c/zefl9m or the one filed with State of Florida's Division of Consumer Services http://www.800helpfla.com/

He can defend his company in a forum like this because he can get away with techniques of a white collar criminal to commit fraud.  Read this link http://whitecollarfraud.blogspot.com/2006/12/art-of-spinning-how-to-identify.html and then go back and read all of the posts submitted by the CEO and you'll realize he's an unethical and deceitful person. 

So why would you do business with such a person?

[BC]

Percolator,

Not defending, nor offending anyone, but it seems the BBB and DOA deemed HRB's response satisfactory?

The status of your complaint shows AJR.. I looked up this term and the closest match was:

Administratively Closed:
The company's response addressed the disputed issues and exhibits a good faith effort to resolve the complaint; however, the customer may remain dissatisfied despite the company's best efforts to satisfy the customer. If arbitration was offered and the company agreed to this process, the complaint is closed AJR.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070807133612AAMBvHY

Seems to support the attached.

I was a bit puzzled by your original complaint stating that you had paid HRB 2 grand some 3 years before.. Why wait so long?  If I understand correctly, two better business agencies ruled the same - what's up with that?  Hard to digest BBB not know what they are doing..

[TomT]

To insure there is no misunderstanding - new member 'Percolator' has posted an identical post in three separate topics, two of which are older topics. This is a technique used by spammers or trolls whose purpose at RWD is inconsistent with the stated Terms of Service, but since this a 'hot button' issue at the moment, his ONE post here -- http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=11898.msg250532#msg250532, will remain. The identical post that was in THIS topic I am writing this in, was removed - as was the third identical post in another topic.

- Dan

Since Jeff posted a link to his BBB case here and said complaint is a matter of public record, I think that the text should be posted here so that members can judge for themselves whether or not he made a good case.

[BC]

Since Jeff posted a link to his BBB case here and said complaint is a matter of public record, I think that the text should be posted here so that members can judge for themselves whether or not he made a good case.

Tom,

Think I did that in the other thread.  He basically lost the case with BBB and Florida Dept of Agriculture & Consumer Services.  He was also reimbursed for unused credits (guess he was quite busy for a couple years at their site) according to other documents posted on the BBB site.  Don't know why he posted in so many threads, but the other thread might be a better place and has a bit more space to discuss his specific results without diluting it here.

[TomT]

The following was filed by someone who claimed to be Jeff C. and is on public record:

" Just over three years ago I spent over $2000 using my credit card to purchase 2500 credits to become a "Qualified Member" of www.HotRussianBrides.com which is owned by Romantic Tours Inc. (RTI)...

"As a "Qualified Member" RTI was to refer me to independent marriage agencies in Ukraine so I could meet the ladies I was corresponding with. RTI only gave me email addresses to these agencies. Some never replied and the ones that did wanted me to send money, but when I told them I'd be traveling to the Ukraine and would pay them when I arrived I never heard from them again.

"To make a long story short, when I tried contacting RTI to resolve this problem not only we're they of no help, but they told me they informed the agencies not to do any business with me. So, even though I paid RTI money to become a "Qualified Member' RTI reneged on their contractual obligation by telling these agencies NOT to do any business with me. I have the email from RTI as proof of their breach of contract.

"The reason I did not do anything earlier was because RTI was headquartered in St. Kitts (Caribbean). When I found out they moved their offices to Florida I contacted the Florida Consumer Services Department and filed a complaint which was closed ''CMC'' or Mediation Unsuccessful with Consumer.

"I have many emails supporting my claims and other documents which I'd be more than happy to submit to further your investigation.

"You may also want to visit this site for more evidence on the fraudulent practices of RTI:

"http://www.jimslists.com/agencies/hotrussianbrides.html"

[TomT]

Jeff admits in his complaint that he attempted to change the deal after the fact. (That was very clever.) The icing on the cake was citing the hearsay of an anonymous Internet scam site owner as evidence. I first read Jeff's complaint while in HRB's Florida offices and commented to my hosts that it struck me as being without merit.

[Shadow]

The Florida Dept of Agriculture & Consumer Services site shows 4 complaints in three years. 1 was referred to another agency, 2 were closed by reimbursement and the last one is the case of Jeff.
Now I have no idea on how hard or easy it is to file a complaint there, but if HRB would be a scam agency I would expect at least more people trying.

[percolator]

Percolator,

Not defending, nor offending anyone, but it seems the BBB and DOA deemed HRB's response satisfactory?

The status of your complaint shows AJR.. I looked up this term and the closest match was:

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070807133612AAMBvHY

Seems to support the attached.

I was a bit puzzled by your original complaint stating that you had paid HRB 2 grand some 3 years before.. Why wait so long?  If I understand correctly, two better business agencies ruled the same - what's up with that?  Hard to digest BBB not know what they are doing..

Before you make a comment and ask a question you should read everything that was submitted to the BBB then you'd understand the case was closed UNRESOLVED and you'd also know the HRB/RLM was domiciled in St. Kitts, so the BBB and the State of Florida couldn't do anything until they moved their offices to Florida.

From the BBB:

11/17/2009    BBB Judged Case AJR    
11/15/2009    Consumer rejects business' final offer  (The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.) No, I do NOT accept the Business's response.

Please note that the information the BBB received on November 13th, 2009 is NOT from the Consumer, but is from the Business.  [THE WAS CORRECTED ON THE BBB SITE)

The reason I do NOT accept the Business's response dated November 13th, 2009 is because it is absolutely identical to the response they submitted on October 23rd, 2009.

The Business has not yet answered and explained any of the issues I raised in the response I submitted on October 28th, 2009.