Cannabis.. yes or no

[Boethius]

I don't know about the US, but I can guarantee you, Ed, there is absolutely no choking of supply lines in Canada, and some drugs are cheaper than tobacco.  There is no shortage of drugs.  I think what has brought down consumption is education efforts. 

[BillyB]

the "war on drugs" in Canada is very much based on education and rehabilitation rather than punishment.  It's working, as drug use has decreased over the past five years.  You can pretty much openly smoke pot anywhere in Canada without arrest, same with most other drugs.  Dealers, on the other hand, are dealt with more severely, and the penalties are going to be increased.

I don't keep up with Canadian drug use that much but from the little I've read the UN reports Canadians use marijuana at four times the world average in 2007. Is education and rehabilitation working or has legalization and decriminalization slingshotted the Canadians to be the leaders in smoking weed?

http://www.cbc.ca/health/story/2007/07/09/canada-cannabis.html

Every kid in America is educated in school and on tv that drugs are bad. How much more dollars spent towards education is beneficial? There's basically two types of people since we're all taught at a young age that drugs are bad. There are those who either ignore the warnings or those who listen to them.

Some of the warnings to keep people from doing drugs is that it's against the law. While decriminalization isn't going to bring everyone to do drugs, it will gain a few who are sitting on the fence and those who already use drugs, their intake will increase. People do pay attention to limits according to the law. Most people responsibly control their drinking before driving in an effort to obey the law. Having no limits means increased consumption.

If any drug only affected only the user, then I wouldn't have so much problems with drug users but you know they won't stay out of their cars and off the roads and working in construction, I've come to know many past drug users who's admitted to doing bad things in their youth to fuel their drug habits and cause lots of trouble under the influence. Giving drugs and alcohol to girls to lower their guard to get sex in return, fighting, vandalism, destruction of other people's property on purpose with their hands or accidentally with their cars etc..... Those who accidentally trash other people's property tend to run away instead of doing the responsible thing and paying for the damage. How many drugs out there promote responsibility? If there are some, how many want to drink it, inhale it, or inject it?

 

[Shostakovich]

I have a question!  Why is this an important topic to debate?

From my perspective:

1. Another legal intoxicant will make an already intoxicated nation more toxic -- Good!  I'm all for legalization if it comes with withdrawal of social services for addicts -- Let's thin out the riff-raff!

2. Ya, pot is no worse than alcohol/ciggies, so in a sense the pot issue, like gay marriage, is about acknowledgment of a marginalized social faction.  People use pot as a proxy to either endorse/disdain the hippies and their derivatives.  But be serious, in this world, does anyone have time for this ant-hill trumpery?

3.

[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bw7_HBKRcgc[/youtube]

New Freedoms?  That's the American fallacy, that freedom is important - it is not, because there is generally no purpose for this freedom other than to sniff out a deeper basement.  But power to the people and let 'em eat cake, they'll eat and keep on eating, get diabetic and die.  So we are back to square 1.

Burn, baby, burn.

In any event, it's not an RWD subject so I think this should get locked up.

[ECOCKS]

I don't know about the US, but I can guarantee you, Ed, there is absolutely no choking of supply lines in Canada, and some drugs are cheaper than tobacco.  There is no shortage of drugs.  I think what has brought down consumption is education efforts. 

I remember them finding a well-engineered, 300 yard tunnel with a trolley cart, lights and ventilation, which went from a greenhouse near Abbotsford under the border to a fireplace in a farmhouse on the American side. They busted them after 9 months of surveillance on their first shipment which was MJ. I also remember the complaints from Vancouver police about the automatic weapons they were encountering when confronting the gangs (mostly Asian but some Hispanic as well).

Long-term the education and social "judgment" will tell but education seems so screwed up in the US now that the method here is still to keep the pressure on the supply line and distribution network.

I noticed there was a shootout in the last 24 hours between two drug gangs just over the border from AZ with 21 dead and 6 wounded. For us then, it's still a defensive war this last year and a half thanks to the poor decisions at the top of the US policy chain.

[Boethius]

Billy, your stats are out of date.  Cannabis use has dropped in Canada.

[ECOCKS]

I'm curious how systematic the education systems in Russia and Ukraine address this issue?

The way the kids talk about it seems no different than the way ours do today. The ones who acknowledge using it just seem to shrug off any serious question concerning health (they seem to consider them more like super cigarettes) and I don't recall ever discussing the economics of how it fits the living budget in Ukraine.

This also held true with regard to E, "Hey! It's fun, we want to have fun, so we do it!" Who needs a date rape drug there? Heroin, I never had occasion to discuss although looking back I can think of a couple who might fit some of my stereotyped impressions of usage.

[Boethius]

Chriss Simms, professional athelete recently got caught driving high on marijuana with his 8-months pregnant wife in the car. Fortunately nothing serious happened. The cops made his wife drive.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/chris_simms_arrested_on_driving_wWRUJkveAVjo84Cvb6q2kO

Twobit talked about the ladies he dated and people commented on the ladies and his actions. You might want to go rescue him while you're at it. 2012, after all the years you've been here at the forum and talked about the varioius RW you've met, people have criticized the actions of you and your ladies for good reasons. They attempt to steer you in the right direction with some advice that you always ignore. Now you want to change the rules that nobody can comment on a lady, your lady, that give out red flags. If you don't want advice, don't speak about your lady ever again or just speak only of her good qualities. It's all up to you.

Billy, this post is off topic.  If you want to dreg up 2012's past and present relationships, please do so in the appropriate thread.  

Thank you.

[Boethius]

I'm curious how systematic the education systems in Russia and Ukraine address this issue?

The way the kids talk about it seems no different than the way ours do today. The ones who acknowledge using it just seem to shrug off any serious question concerning health (they seem to consider them more like super cigarettes) and I don't recall ever discussing the economics of how it fits the living budget in Ukraine.

This also held true with regard to E, "Hey! It's fun, we want to have fun, so we do it!" Who needs a date rape drug there? Heroin, I never had occasion to discuss although looking back I can think of a couple who might fit some of my stereotyped impressions of usage.

I knew heroin addicts when I lived there, which was before the collapse, and when it meant a prison sentence, so no doubt, it is used today.  My Grandmother said the old women in her village (this would have been in between the wars) sniffed cocaine. 

I doubt there is much drug education in schools.

[ECOCKS]

It also seemed like the meth trade was getting setup over there as well.

I'm sure it will be taken badly by someone (ah well) but the thought of dating someone with a drug habit never even crossed my mind as a possibility. My internal radar would have been trusted on that score, along with the cats and smoking which I did take into account and cover in my profile. 

[BillyB]

Billy, your stats are out of date.  Cannabis use has dropped in Canada.

You can't credit the drop of cannabis use in Canada to education without facts. The article I posted talked about UN numbers pertaining to Canadian cannabis use in 2007. The World's economy took a serious dump 2008. People cut back on buying a lot of things and that includes drugs so of course cannabis use is going to drop. Fortunately drugs for most users are a luxury, not a necessity.

What I wish to learn is what happened years before and after Canada legalized certain drugs and decriminalized other drugs? Are there any unbiased reports without an agenda out there? I'm all ears to listening what the best solution to handle drug use is but I'm not convinced putting more dollars into education is the solution. Kids are already taught the dangers of drugs. Even as adults, we constantly read life experiences of those who had bad results with drugs. What more can we teach people?

If you want to dreg up 2012's past and present relationships, please do so in the appropriate thread.

2012 revealed some things about his relationship up in this thread. I'm not going to another thread to address those things because it wouldn't make sense. I thought some of the things he said here were red flags and like normal people do at this forum, we talk about them in an attempt to help the person. If being on topic is important, go and scold him for being off topic.

[Boethius]

First, Billy, the UN stats relied on 2004 Canada stats.  The 2010 UN report acknowledges their stats were out of date when used.  

The Canadian government published a policy paper on cannabis use, and its drop, and attributed that to education programs, run by various agencies.

Canada has neither legalized nor decriminalized certain drugs.  But all levels of government in Canada recognize that imprisoning drug addicts does nothing to curb drug use.

[Sculpto]

Sorry Dude, this is a Russian Women Discussion forum and it is a members right to discuss whenever or where ever he chooses.  If you just want to hear yourself talk, start a blog somewhere else!
KenC

I wasn't talking to you Ken.

[KenC]

I wasn't talking to you Ken.

You were talking to the forum, of which I am a member, so you were speaking to me and to everyone else here.
KenC

[BC]

How much money did you put on that bet?

Hope it wasn't much.

Both my Albertson's grocery store and Walgreen's pharmacy wanted to know how many and what size when I asked if I could purchase syringes less than 15 minutes ago.

E, Good to hear.. I stand corrected then. Thanks.

Maybe buy you a beer some day.

[Shadow]

For those still living in the real world it is interesting that consumption in Canada and the US, where they are still fighting "the war on drugs", consumption is estimated at 6% of the world total.

No. 1 Region for consumption of heroin?

Europe, estimated at 26% and 88 Metric Tons annually. How are those liberal drug laws working out over there? Well, you be the judge.

This picture is from the primary heroin marketplace in Madrid, Las Baranquillas, where an estimated 5,000 or more addicts congregate at night to share sources and enjoy the healthy camaraderie of kindred spirits.

Heroin does not fall under any liberal drug law as far as I know.
Also to use "Europe" is a term that can cause a lot of confusion.

Do you mean the EU ?
The continent ?
Which countries does this include ?

[Gator]

We know how heavy and long term drug use impairs a man's ability to create and maintain a relationship with an FSUW

Scam after scam after scam...

Denial Denial Denial

Train wreck after train wreck...

Fantasy Fantasy

Humiliation after humilation...

Excuse Excuse

Surely any man in control of his life would not let this happen to himself. 

Good list Kuna.  Amazingly accurate considering how infrequently you read RWD.  You did miss two other deleterious effects from heavy use - (1) delusion in the form of false belief and (2) hypersensitivity as summarized in the following:

Ken.. for the record I believe I have asked for moderator intervention a grand total of 2 maybe 3 times in the 4000 plus posts I have made on this board. 

Try 10 since your return from being banned.  But that doesn't include your constant cries of foul within your threads when someone disagrees with you.

Kuna, you wrote:

I check with my wife.  She only knows one person who openly smoked,  The husband of her friend/workmate.  I should say EX-HUSBAND because when she fell pregnant she demanded he stop smoking and he didn't,  so divorced him.

She says there ARE big drug problems all around Ukraine but the only people seeing drugs favourably are those with drug problems.

My experience is the same; however, I have discussed the subject with only a few RW.  One divorced her husband upon learning he "earned" his income from "narcotics."

[Sculpto]

How much money did you put on that bet?

Hope it wasn't much.

Both my Albertson's grocery store and Walgreen's pharmacy wanted to know how many and what size when I asked if I could purchase syringes less than 15 minutes ago.

Ed try and do it over and over again without a scrip.. I mean maybe its different in a small place like where you live.. but.. in this neck of the woods were there is an actual heroin problem walgreens or any other commercial outlet absolutely will not provide syringes without a scrip.  Without needle exchange the HIV problem would be a lot worse.

several years ago I rented a large building to house my cabinet business.  There was a totally over grown garden in the back.  I started clearing the garden and preparing the ground to plant flowers and other landscaping when I made a disgusting discovery.  Used syringes.. hundreds of them.. scattered all over the place and hidden by the overgrowth.. it was clearly not medical waste.. it was someones junk habit that they indulged at work.. sad.. and let me tell you clearing that stuff out once discovered was no easy task.   I tried to get the landlord to pay for hazardous waste removal but his view was.. just don't use the garden.. lol.. jerk.. the garden was why I rented the place over the other units I had looked at.

which gets back to my point.. the stereotype of a junkie is someone down and out in filthy clothes living under a garbage bin in an alley.  However.. the reality is.. most junkies are in the closet and appear to be functional.. and most of them don't use needles.  So.. someone who is living a lie.. can very easily fool everyone in their lives.. what makes anyone think they are going to avoid such a scenario when they get involved with a woman from another country?  especially one with 2.5 million KNOWN/estimated heroin addicts...

[KenC]

Far be it from me to validate or disagree with your inside information on the drug culture, but "KNOWN/estimated" does not make any sense at all.
KenC

[Sculpto]

My experience is the same; however, I have discussed the subject with only a few RW. 

That is part of my point also Gator.. most of you guys do not indulge in anything more than an adult beverage and I am pretty sure most of you are not surrounded by a drug culture.  I am.  In my world I assume pretty much everyone is a recreational user of SOMETHING.  I know people that never smoke weed but use cocaine.. I know people that never drink or smoke weed but take "E" and a wide variety of other designer drugs.. I know people that never do any of the above but do Salvia or DHT, both legal I might add, several times a year.  Etc etc etc..

I also know several junkies who maintain functional lives but who are addicted.

I ask EVERY FSUW that I communicate and I ask in detail.  And that is where the lies become an issue..

So.. someone exhibits strange and inconsistent behavior.. but you may already be in a relationship with that person so.. you cut them some slack.. and you never even consider that the bottom of the inconsistency is a drug problem because they said they don't do drugs..

[Sculpto]

Far be it from me to validate or disagree with your inside information on the drug culture, but "KNOWN/estimated" does not make any sense at all.
KenC

the un or whatever agency reports 2.5 million heroin users arrives at those figures how?  Is there a junkie registry in Russia as there is in Holland or Switzerland?  My OPINION is when there is a number like 2.5 million thrown around but without any specific documentation but claimed as a "known" it is really an estimate and usually an underestimate.

[KenC]

OK, got it now.  Maybe "known (estimated?)" would have been clearer?
KenC

[Sculpto]

OK, got it now.  Maybe "known (estimated?)" would have been clearer?
KenC

I was calling out the flaw in the statistical reporting..

[KenC]

I was calling out the flaw in the statistical reporting..

As YOU see it as you really do not have any first hand knowledge of how they came to "know" these statistics.  Not a big deal, dude, really. It was just confusng the way you stated it originally.
KenC

[Gator]

So.. someone exhibits strange and inconsistent behavior.. but you may already be in a relationship with that person so.. you cut them some slack.. and you never even consider that the bottom of the inconsistency is a drug problem because they said they don't do drugs..

My guess is that this is far smaller concern in the FSU than the US, and not a great concern in the US dependent upon one's social circle.

It would seem someone like you who has chosen to live around the edge of the drug culture would have the experience to know what to spot.

If you were in a relationship as I define the term,  you would already suspect whether they did drugs.   The same applies to parents and their kids.

[ECOCKS]

Apparently the problem is much worse in Western Europe where the harder drug usage is escalating. What a shame that the Old World has decayed to this point.

Good thing I didn't particularly consider living in UK, France, Italy, etc. Also, this perhaps explains some of the numbers about their citizens who leave their countries to become expats due to worsening conditions there. Wonder if the women in the FSU are aware enough of these trends to have concerns with regard to considering men in Western Europe?

Some interesting tidbits of information:

Cannabis remains the world's most widely produced and used illicit substance: it is grown in almost all countries of the world and is smoked by 130-190 million people at least once a year - though these parameters are not very telling in terms of addiction. The fact that cannabis use is declining in some of its highest value markets, namely North America and parts of Europe, is another indication of shifting patterns of drug abuse.

The number of clandestine laboratories involved in the manufacture of amphetamine-type stimulants is reported to have increased by 20 per cent in 2008, including in countries where such labs had never been detected before.

To an extent, the problem has moved across the Atlantic: in the last decade, the number of cocaine users in Europe has doubled, from 2 million in 1998 to 4.1 million in 2008. By 2008, the European market ($34 billion) was almost as valuable as the North American market ($37 billion). The shift in demand has led to a shift in trafficking routes, with an increasing amount of cocaine flowing to Europe from the Andean countries via West Africa, causing regional instability.

World cocaine production has declined by 12-18 per cent over the period 2007-2009.

That hard drug usage is a shame since, no matter how most folks feel about pot, there seems to be a pretty general agreement that heroin is a killer in every respect.