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Author Topic: hotel refunds  (Read 15507 times)

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Offline Sculpto

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Re: hotel refunds
« Reply #100 on: August 19, 2010, 03:05:08 PM »
Sculpto, I doubt any reasonable Western men would pay $500 for something he never have chance to see and without any guaranties. The same in Russia. When people rent an apartment in Russia they usually check the apartment first at least to know what they pay for. Reasonable people in Russia renting an apartment usually have a civil contract with the apartment's owner and I also have never had a problem asking for a notice of receipt from an owner of apartment (exact sum of money and renting period, and owners passport number and signature) and I have never been refused of such notice.

Olga I just dealt with two apartment owners in St P.  I had to make a 1 night deposit via Western Union.  Upon arrival at the first apartment.. which by the way sucked.. I had to sign a contract..

The fact of the contract was rather laughable since they were not providing visa registry as required the contract itself would not be enforceable to my understanding of the law.. they also demanded payment for the entire duration I would be staying in the apartment.. in cash.. when I presented US dollars they inspected each $100 very carefully and gave me dirty looks.

6 days later when I was in a furious state of mind over the lack of water and absolute lack of service from the owner and her agent.. I demanded a partial refund from the rental agency.. the owners rep came to meet me and tried to pass me a "funny $50".  She pleaded innocence but i pointed out to her that the 50 did not have the magentic strip and that the watermark was not correct.. she shrugged and claimed she got the money from the bank.. hahaha yeah right..

The second apartment also required full payment in advance but did not try the contract BS...

Neither owner provided a receipt. 


Offline OlgaH

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Re: hotel refunds
« Reply #101 on: August 19, 2010, 03:17:35 PM »

Neither owner provided a receipt.  

I would refuse to deal with the owners who would not write me a note that they received the money. But as I already said I have never been refused such note. To ask for the quarantines and have it is absolutely normal and usual.  


The rental agencies must provide a receipt (otherwise they most likely run their business illegally)
« Last Edit: August 19, 2010, 03:23:31 PM by OlgaH »

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Re: hotel refunds
« Reply #102 on: August 19, 2010, 03:19:34 PM »
I have rented numerous flats in Russia. Both with 1 night deposit and my promise that I would be there to rent with no deposit. In Petersburg the apt owner insisted on a one night deposit for a two week rental. That transaction for one night deposit was handled through paypal. The transfer guy had the key and showed me to the flat. The owner never show up but did call about halfway through visit. We couldn't communicate as we didn't speak each others language. Two days before the end of my trip the owners rep showed to collect the money I owed. A very attractive young RW who spoke excellent English. I paid and received no receipt. She said she would bring one back but did not. I figured what the hell? I'd already been there 10-11 nights at that point.

My remaining rentals were all in Siberia from the same woman. There I never paid a deposit and never paid until leaving. Never received a receipt. Perhaps I was just lucky or this is a standard mode of business in Russia or the particular people I dealt with. I dunno.

Offline Sculpto

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Re: hotel refunds
« Reply #103 on: August 19, 2010, 03:20:32 PM »
I would refuse to deal with the owners who would not write me a note that they received the money. But as I already said I have never been refused such note. To ask for the quarantines and have it is absolutely normal and usual.   

I think most of the owners that are renting to foreign people are trying to keep out of the taxman's view.. leave no paper trail..

Offline OlgaH

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Re: hotel refunds
« Reply #104 on: August 19, 2010, 03:24:35 PM »
I think most of the owners that are renting to foreign people are trying to keep out of the taxman's view.. leave no paper trail..

That's right. As anywhere else some people in Russia try to avoid the taxation  :D

But usually people in Russia do not go to tax offices with the given written notice from the owners.  :)
« Last Edit: August 19, 2010, 03:28:09 PM by OlgaH »

Offline Voyager36

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Re: hotel refunds
« Reply #105 on: August 19, 2010, 07:24:11 PM »



She was told not to pay. Normally, a woman would discuss cost and method of payment with a man in advance especially if she would be asked by a man to arrange the place of meeting, and if she would be asked to pay in advance by an owner of apartment   she would contact the OP first because $579 is not so small sum of money.  

I didn't see that, are you sure? This is what he said:

I never asked her to pay.  I told her I would pay when I arrived.

Which is a bit odd in itself, arriving in Kiev in summertime, with nothing reserved and hoping to find something at the drop of a hat?

  Maybe it's just a difference in the way business is conducted in Ukraine and America.

No, it's much the same principle in America. If you fail to live up to your promises you usually have to pay.
If I make a promise to a customer and one of my employees fails to deliver, it will usually cost me a couple of hundred, regardless of whether they had any actual loss due to the delay.

Offline OlgaH

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Re: hotel refunds
« Reply #106 on: August 19, 2010, 07:38:41 PM »
If you fail to live up to your promises you usually have to pay.


But he told her not to pay  ;)

Quote
I didn't see that...

That the problem, but it's my problem because I'm not a Western man  ;D

I see it as the red flags that the women was told not to pay, but she "paid" anyway and told him about what she did only when he said that he can not come due to his health problem, plus she doesn't want to give him any information on who she paid to  ::) I just don't buy such actions, especially when a woman doesn't have any money  ;)


Offline Voyager36

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Re: hotel refunds
« Reply #107 on: August 19, 2010, 07:48:25 PM »
But he told her not to pay  ;)

Sorry, what post was that?

Offline ECOCKS

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Re: hotel refunds
« Reply #108 on: August 19, 2010, 07:49:10 PM »
I keep seeing mentions that he was planning on "just showing up" and magically finding a place to stay. I don't see that. I showed up for my first apartment in Ukraine after emailing an agreement to rent a place for two weeks, then paid when I arrived. Other guys have done much the same, refusing to pay more than a single night's deposit via WU and telling the landlord they would pay in cash. Others have just given an assurance and stated they don't do CC transactions. There are always hotels for a night or two as a fallback.

I did have a friend prepay a long weekend at a place in Odessa once but we had a level of faith in each other from meetings in person and discussions via phone. It was also my option to just say no and go to the Londonskaya for a night and sort it out the next day.
Pick and choose carefully among the advice offered and consider the source carefully. PM, Skype or email if you care to chat or discuss

Offline OlgaH

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Offline CanadaMan

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Re: hotel refunds
« Reply #110 on: August 19, 2010, 08:56:44 PM »
I'm afraid this post has finally reached the stage where, unless the OP comes back and tells us:

-Yes, I DID buy a plane ticket for the trip, (or No)
-Yes, she had made plans to leave her kids with xxxxx, (or No)
-Yes she had made plans to be off work for x days (or No)
(when you chat with someone for 6 months and make arrangements with them to come visit, then the woman is notified when you buy your ticket, and the man is notified about arrangements the women is making with her children/work etc.)
That's just life; has ANYONE here ever done differently?)


we can be pontificating until the cows come home about whether he was right or she was right in their actions.

This could actually be the mid-way point in this thread! <gosh>   ::)





Offline Daveman

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Re: hotel refunds
« Reply #111 on: August 19, 2010, 09:07:22 PM »
something just doesn't add up. Something is missing... hmmm... ahhh, it's therapy! They both need therapy!  I knew we'd figure this out eventually!

The duty of a true patriot is to protect his country from its government. -- Thomas Paine

Offline OlgaH

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Re: hotel refunds
« Reply #112 on: August 19, 2010, 09:12:49 PM »
Dave, Gestalt group therapy?  :D

Offline Voyager36

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Re: hotel refunds
« Reply #113 on: August 19, 2010, 09:16:45 PM »
But he told her not to pay  ;)

Sorry, what post was that?

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=12271.msg240664#msg240664

No, that's not what it says!
he didn't 'tell her not to pay", he "Didn't ask her to pay" - two different things.

Offline Voyager36

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Re: hotel refunds
« Reply #114 on: August 19, 2010, 09:22:20 PM »
I keep seeing mentions that he was planning on "just showing up" and magically finding a place to stay. I don't see that. I showed up for my first apartment in Ukraine after emailing an agreement to rent a place for two weeks, then paid when I arrived.

Right, but he didn't do any of that, hedoesn't mention making any preparations whatsoever.

 
Quote
Other guys have done much the same, refusing to pay more than a single night's deposit via WU and telling the landlord they would pay in cash. Others have just given an assurance and stated they don't do CC transactions. There are always hotels for a night or two as a fallback.

We had a darn difficult time finding a hotel upon arriving by train in the morning. The first 6 or 8 that we tried were all sold out.

So he was planning on arriving in the late afternoon, meeting the lady for the first time, and having the hassle of running around looking for a hotel?

Offline OlgaH

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Re: hotel refunds
« Reply #115 on: August 19, 2010, 09:25:38 PM »
No, that's not what it says!
he didn't 'tell her not to pay", he "Didn't ask her to pay" - two different things.

Honestly, I don't know how it is different. As I said before if a man told me he would pay I would understand it as "not to pay"  ::) 

Online Faux Pas

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Re: hotel refunds
« Reply #116 on: August 19, 2010, 09:37:16 PM »
I'm afraid this post has finally reached the stage where, unless the OP comes back and tells us:

Actually, he did come back yet, ignored the pointed questions intentionally that would help others determine if he should actually send this lady money. Some of us detect 10dub was just looking to consensus to agree with him that he shouldn't sent the money. I think he should even though it is against the hallowed 10 commandments.

Quote
-Yes, I DID buy a plane ticket for the trip, (or No)
-Yes, she had made plans to leave her kids with xxxxx, (or No)
-Yes she had made plans to be off work for x days (or No)
(when you chat with someone for 6 months and make arrangements with them to come visit, then the woman is notified when you buy your ticket, and the man is notified about arrangements the women is making with her children/work etc.)
That's just life; has ANYONE here ever done differently?)

He stated he didn't buy a plane ticket and he didn't make accommodations. He did state that said lady made some "sort" of preparations for his arrival. One being his lodgings, which is highly suspect


Quote
we can be pontificating until the cows come home about whether he was right or she was right in their actions.

This could actually be the mid-way point in this thread! <gosh>   ::)


CM, you seem to have an interest in this thread dying a quicker death. Any particular reason? 10dub seems to be seeking some vilification for not sending this woman the money she said she is out due to his cancellation. He claims an infection 8 days prior is the reason for his cancellation. Yet he made no arrangements for flight or flat. Much here points to dude playing the keyboard romeo. He said he would send her the money but, he read here to never send money to a woman you never met. IMO, that doesn't apply here in this situation and I doubt the woman is out anything other than the 6 months she wasted on this guy.

His whole story reeks IMO. Looks like KBR busted

Offline OlgaH

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Re: hotel refunds
« Reply #117 on: August 19, 2010, 09:42:00 PM »
Right, but he didn't do any of that, hedoesn't mention making any preparations whatsoever.


My husband arranged an apartment in Moscow just a week before his flight.

Online Faux Pas

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Re: hotel refunds
« Reply #118 on: August 19, 2010, 09:43:18 PM »
My husband arranged an apartment in Moscow just a week before his flight.

Was that his first or second trip?

Offline OlgaH

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Re: hotel refunds
« Reply #119 on: August 19, 2010, 09:50:10 PM »
Maybe 5th or 6th.  He found a rental agency through internet, paid for first day. After he send me information with address, names and phone numbers.  The rest he paid when he arrived.
 

« Last Edit: August 19, 2010, 09:53:04 PM by OlgaH »

Online Faux Pas

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Re: hotel refunds
« Reply #120 on: August 19, 2010, 10:10:45 PM »
Maybe 5th or 6th.  He found a rental agency through internet, paid for first day. After he send me information with address, names and phone numbers.  The rest he paid when he arrived.
 



Sah-weet.  ;D Was this a regular practice of his? Did he regularly wait last minute to make arrangements to visit you after 6 months communication?

Offline OlgaH

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Re: hotel refunds
« Reply #121 on: August 19, 2010, 10:15:24 PM »
Sorry, I have made a mistake. It was not a week before. It was less. I found our old papers we saved. He purchased the tickets from Delta on August 10th, his flight to Moscow was on August 15th. After tickets he arranged the apartment.  

Offline OlgaH

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Re: hotel refunds
« Reply #122 on: August 19, 2010, 10:23:05 PM »
Sah-weet.  ;D Was this a regular practice of his? Did he regularly wait last minute to make arrangements to visit you after 6 months communication?

Actually when we decide to go to cruise we can buy it right a week before departure  ;D The time depends on our job. And at that time the time also depended only on his job.  Our first meeting was in Saint Petersburg after 3 month of phone communication  ;) One time we canceled our cruise right two days before departure again because of our job.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2010, 10:25:51 PM by OlgaH »

Online Faux Pas

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Re: hotel refunds
« Reply #123 on: August 19, 2010, 10:39:11 PM »
Actually when we decide to go to cruise we can buy it right a week before departure  ;D The time depends on our job.


Hardly comparing apples to apples, is it? A cruise and a trip to Ukraine is hardly comparable. Unless of course you are going to catch a cruise from Ukraine to meet a woman you have been communicating with for 6 months.

Quote
And at that time the time also depended only on his job.  Our first meeting was in Saint Petersburg after 3 month of phone communication  ;) One time we canceled our cruise right two days before departure again because of our job.

Olga, you avoided answering the question just like the OP. Was that on purpose?  :D I've cancelled a number of travel plans for various reasons. Again, there's no comparison. There is a significant savings for purchasing a flight to Ukraine in advance. Under normal circumstances, one who "plans" to travel will take advantage of that. I know from experience many times a last minute cruise purchase can be considerably cheaper but again, there is no relevance here.

The first time you met your husband, did he wait until inside of 8 days to make arrangements?


Offline ECOCKS

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Re: hotel refunds
« Reply #124 on: August 19, 2010, 10:45:41 PM »
Right, but he didn't do any of that, he doesn't mention making any preparations whatsoever.

I'm just too stupid to get it then V. I read these as she made the reservation for him then brought up paying in advance. He did not want her to prepay, he would do so when he arrived. That sounds like it's all square and pretty straight forward. Olga apparently read it the same way.

You keep saying he made no preparations but what do you think he means when he says, "I never asked her to pay.  I told her I would pay when I arrived."

His 1st, 2nd and 6th Posts with some salient points bolded.

1st Post

i planned on flying to Kiev August 18.  I developed a sinus/allergy infection and could not make the trip.  I planned on visiting a lady I have been chatting with on Skype for the past 6 months.  I informed the lady August 10 I could not make the trip.  She tells me she had paid $579 for a hotel/apartment for the dates of August 18-24.  She says it is impossible for her to get a refund.  She has asked me to send her $579 by western union.  What do you people think.  Scam?

2nd Post

I never asked her to pay.  I told her I would pay when I arrived.  I know I will never know the truth....I am happy to reimburse her if I feel she is being honest.  But, I don't want to send someone I've never met $579 simply because they ask me to.

6th Post

here is an update.  I have spent the last hour talking with this lady.  She continues to ask me to send her money through Western Union.  I have told her many times I will not go through Western Union.  I have asked her for the phone number to the "private" apartment ( evidently it is not a hotel ) and she refuses to give me the number.  She says they would not understand me.  I told her I have a friend who speaks Russian and this will not be a problem.  She says it is too late in the day.  I told her I will contact them tomorrow at 09:00 Kiev time.  She says this is not acceptable.

Yes, we have communicated via Skype for 6 months.  She seems honest, but there are red flags.  She says she has a job...I have seen pictures of her at company website.  But, I talk with her for 2 hours 4 or 5 days a week at different times.  I have always been curious as to when she could sleep, work or take care of her 2 children and talk with me at such different times of the day and night.  Also, in 6 months, I have only seen her in live video 1 time.  I have used my PC video consistently.  She says she does not have a PC camera and can not afford one. Ok, I believe this.  The one time I saw her in video she said was from a cafe.

She lives in Dnepropetrovsk.  We were to meet in Kiev.  She has told me she is considering moving back to Kiev as her father lives in a community about 2 hours from Kiev.  

 
So he was planning on arriving in the late afternoon, meeting the lady for the first time, and having the hassle of running around looking for a hotel?

No, he knew there was a reservation and planned on going there and paying for it himself.

Her refusal to provide a phone number for a call to deal with it is the most damning part of this other than not following his intention of paying for this when he arrives.


Pick and choose carefully among the advice offered and consider the source carefully. PM, Skype or email if you care to chat or discuss

 

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