It looks like I'm joining the divorce club.

[OlgaH]

Hi Greg,

sorry to hear such news. I took time and went through your posts. You had very good things to say about your wife and even about your mother in law  

My wife has been here a year and a half. The 1st few months were tough. She missed her mama and sister very much.  There would be times we would fight about little things that shouldnt matter,but it was a big deal to her. She was young and in a strange land. I remember telling friends I was ready for her to carry her ass back to Ukraine, but we weathered the storm. She was able to walk into her own business and she has dome remarkable with it.

She's been here 3 years, I love her to death, she's the best, I married way way out of my league,but some things you just have to say "honey dont worry about it"

This month will make 4 years of marriage for us. My wife is now a US citzen with a blue passport. We have a 1 year old baby girl. Our marriage is successful because of lots of patience on both sides.

 My wife owns and operates her own business. She does above average for a village girl from Ukraine. My wife is very frugal. My wife is a wonderful mother.

 My wife was young when we met. She had never experienced anything to do with love and dating and marriage. I had never been married. We learned together about this. I'm probably not the best to give advice on the subject because I did marry such a wonderful innocent girl. As hard as we worked at our marriage looking back it wasnt that big of a deal.

My mother-in-law is so good with our baby. Her help is priceless. She helps my wife with her business,she cooks,she cleans,she washes clothes,she does everything and she is also my wonderful wifes mother. The lady that raised my wife. the lady that is directly responsible for my wife being the person that she is. That being said I know that one day she will probably want to stay. I know it will be years down the road. ]Of course she makes more in one week helping my wife than she does in 2 months over there as a teacher.
Hell I feel like I'm on parole when my m-i-l is here. She babysits,wife sits,cleans,cooks and the whole nine yards. You should bring her for a visit.

I met my M-I-l the first day I met my wife. When I returned after a couple of months, I insisted on meeting her and Papa again. They needed to feel comfortable with me and I wanted the big table,and it was a great big table by the way I might add. Believe it on not but my M-i-L actually told my wife the other day that she misses me. It so funny to my wife. As you all know she's usually on my ass from about 7AM until she decides to turn in when she is staying with us. I think my charm is gradually wearing her down. The Soviet mindset and her fire breathing dragon attitude toward me is fading. It usually does after she goes back to her village so I'm not going to get a callouses on my hand for patting myself on the back just yet.

on: January 16, 2010, 11:55:56 AM
My father-in-law will be making his famous galupsy(spelling wrong I know)...I shouldnt say my mother-in-law is so crazy..She raised a wonderful 2 girls and she's a great babushka.

Greg,

honestly I don't think that a woman who raised 2 wonderful girls and who is a great babushka would love to see her daughter to be divorced with two little children and her grandchildren growing up separately from their father.  Could be there misunderstandings between you and your mother in law?  Have you tried to sit at the round table with your wife and mother at law and discuss all the issues, to get to know if there is something about you that troubles your mother in law.

Your mother in law also sees that her daughter is doing well with her business in US than she would do in her village in Ukraine. Why she would want to take her daughter back to Ukraine. Your wife is already US citizen with her own business. I think she understands the importance of the language. Maybe you misunderstood her? Or she told you exactly she wants to go back to Ukraine with the children?

I also think it should not be a problem for your daughter to learn English when you, her father, speak English playing with her, watching cartoons, reading books and so on especially when you "feel like you are on parole" and have more free time to spend with children    

As you said you participate in the student exchange programs. Do you host the students in your house? If so, how often? Is your wife fine with that? Do you have enough time to spend with your wife and children between your job, students and football games?   Does your wife like football as you do? Is she sincere in feelings regarding spending the time among students and watching the football? Or she does and says so because she just loves you and don't want to upset you? As you said she met you when "she was young and never experienced anything to do with love and dating and marriage", and her mother can be only person who she can trust the thing that upset her, and there is a probability that her mother takes her daughter's sharing extremely, especially if there is a language barrier between your MIL and  you. That's why the round table is so important.

Greg, it was just my thoughts, I  assert nothing, and I don't expect you to answer and no need to answer    Maybe it is just a good idea to go back and recall all the good things from the very beginning and to try to resolve the problems or misunderstandings through the family "round table" discussions first.  Just remember the "lots of patience" you have started your family with, and you all will probably able to weather one more storm  

[Gator]

OlgaH,

Great post.  First, you were not judgmental.  Second,  you looked for positive aspects upon which efforts could be made to save the marriage.  Third, you offerred many suggestions as suggestions.

Hopefully Greg and his wife will turn this around. 

One negative aspect about divorce:  after it gets into the hands of two opposing attorneys, especially an attorney who is working the case, both parties tend to lose control of the process.  A divisive momentum builds and builds.   The judicial process operates as if it took  life.

[Admin]

OlgaH,

Great post.  First, you were not judgmental.  Second,  you looked for positive aspects upon which efforts could be made to save the marriage.  Third, you offerred many suggestions as suggestions.

Hopefully Greg and his wife will turn this around. 

One negative aspect about divorce:  after it gets into the hands of two opposing attorneys, especially an attorney who is working the case, both parties tend to lose control of the process. A divisive momentum builds and builds.   The judicial process operates as if it took  life.

>>A divisive momentum builds and builds.   The judicial process operates as if it took  life.<<

All by design of those with a vested (financial) interest with insuring/expanding the rift - and BTW, that includes the jurists, sadly.

If anyone believes there is ANY shred of hope in avoiding a divorce - do NOT retain an attorney. They make no money on reconciliation.

- Dan

[LEGAL]

Hi Greg,
 try to resolve the problems or misunderstandings through the family "round table" discussions first.

All by design of those with a ve$ted (financial) interest with insuring/expanding the rift - and BTW, that includes the jurists, sadly.

Dan

[Seeker]

>>A divisive momentum builds and builds.   The judicial process operates as if it took  life.<<

All by design of those with a vested (financial) interest with insuring/expanding the rift - and BTW, that includes the jurists, sadly.

If anyone believes there is ANY shred of hope in avoiding a divorce - do NOT retain an attorney. They make no money on reconciliation.

- Dan

Wise words.  Once an attorney is hired, there is little hope (no insult to attorneys that post here).  Even if the parties involved are still looking for a resolution, it is not billable to save the marriage.  They are not counselors... or even advocates for the person they represent at this point.  They want to get paid, and the biggest payoff is in finalizing the divorce.  Fast.

[Daveman]

Agreed, great post Olga...

and another thought.. I think greg does need representation at the "round" table though... but keeping the following in mind,..

>>A divisive momentum builds and builds.   The judicial process operates as if it took  life.<<

All by design of those with a vested (financial) interest with insuring/expanding the rift - and BTW, that includes the jurists, sadly.

If anyone believes there is ANY shred of hope in avoiding a divorce - do NOT retain an attorney. They make no money on reconciliation.

- Dan

I think he should hire his own Russian speaking babushka!  Then they'd all be on a level playing field... she could move in and run interference!  Pull clothes outta the washer as the other puts them in.. Battle of the Borshch! you know, a good time to be had for all!

Try to keep your sense of humor in all of this, greg, there are reasons you wrote such wonderful things about wife and mama.  Try to remember those as well.  

[Gator]

Dave, my twisted friend, have you yet found a RW who appreciates your humor?

[Misha]

honestly I don't think that a woman who raised 2 wonderful girls and who is a great babushka would love to see her daughter to be divorced with two little children and her grandchildren growing up separately from their father.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Too often, in-laws are convinced that they are right and are incapable of not interfering. They are driven by their belief that they are doing good and if only their son-in-law came to his senses the world would as it should  Extended household are too often stressful places with constant power politics.

[Gator]

In Greg's case, I believe his wife was the first to retain an attorney, and her filing for a divorce came without him expecting it.   

If your wife has an attorney, you better protect yourself by getting your own attorney.  Otherwise it would be like begging on a street corner wearing no trousers.

Some family law attorneys have a reputation for wearing a white hat and striving for an amicable divorce.  My divorce attorney was such.  In fact, there is a local association of attorneys with such an inclination. 

They endeavor to settle a case and avoid the contentious process.  In so doing they may even develop a settlement agreement which both parties sign.  After that, the husband and wife can then try to make the marriage work, and if one is unhappy with the progress, that person could complete the divorce with all issues (property, alimony, custody, child support) resolved in the settlement agreement.  The judge would just rubber stamp the agreement.

Then there is the contentious divorce.  They can last for years, or until all financial assets have been sold to pay legal fees.

[GQBlues]

I think he should hire his own Russian speaking babushka!  Then they'd all be on a level playing field... she could move in and run interference!  Pull clothes outta the washer as the other puts them in.. Battle of the Borshch! you know, a good time to be had for all!

Sorry, sorry, sorry....I know you've all seen this a million times but since Daveman opened the proverbial can-o-worms....



The one in the blue clearly understood proper angulation will give you a much better advantage. Wonderful battle strategist! I would definitely have her in my corner.

[OlgaH]

The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Too often, in-laws are convinced that they are right and are incapable of not interfering. They are driven by their belief that they are doing good and if only their son-in-law came to his senses the world would as it should   Extended household are too often stressful places with constant power politics.

And that is why some families come to divorce when they prefer to suspect each other in "power politics" instead of having a sincere discussion. And no wonder when a man finds himself to be a stranger in his family when he is driven only by his belief that his MIL/FIL is an enemy instead of talking to her/him trying to resolve an issue.  

[LEGAL]

In Greg's case, I believe his wife was the first to retain an attorney, and her filing for a divorce came without him expecting it.   

Gator Sorry I must have missed that upthread.

Greg if that is the case  you better protect yourself by immediately getting your own attorney.

[Jack]

They want to get paid, and the biggest payoff is in finalizing the divorce.  Fast.

The biggest payoff is finalizing the divorce     slowly.

[Seeker]

Sorry, sorry, sorry....I know you've all seen this a million times but since Daveman opened the proverbial can-o-worms....



The one in the blue clearly understood proper angulation will give you a much better advantage. Wonderful battle strategist! I would definitely have her in my corner.

I am just disturbed enough to want to know what the fight was about.  I prefer non-violence in most things... but depending on the issue, I might be cheering for one of them (as long as it stayed harmless purse swings).

And yes a purse can hurt... but is seemed neither of them was feeling any pain.

[Seeker]

The biggest payoff is finalizing the divorce     slowly.

True... I was forgetting the billable hours aspect.  I guess it comes down to time vs. labor vs. money at that point. 

And what is next on the roster.

And I want to add... it CAN go the other way too.  Amicable, with two people doing it together and peaceful because they still care about each other, but can't be married anymore.  I have been through both.  But the first one is more emotional... so it comes up first.  And makes for a more lively discussion.  Who wants to hear about the relationship where it ended and you were still friends?

[Misha]

And no wonder when a man finds himself to be a stranger in his family when he is driven only by his belief that his MIL/FIL is an enemy instead of talking to her/him trying to resolve an issue.  

Do you really think that all in-laws really want to resolve issues? Do you really think they are all open to listening to their son-in-law? Do you think that all in-laws are willing to change? My answer to all these question: NO. Some in-laws are manipulative, some are stubborn, some are demanding, some are "my-way-or-the-highway" kind of people...

[GQBlues]

I will make a presumption based solely on emails and phone chats I've had with Greg in the past, but this guy adored his wife, and moreover their children.

Thus, based solely on this knowledge, Greg would have easily searched every conceivable venue and channel to resolve whatever ill his marriage was getting bombarded with. To have him reach this point suggests to me it was something much bigger than he was capable of coping with.


Seeker-
Likely these...

[Seeker]

Do you really think that all in-laws really want to resolve issues? Do you really think they are all open to listening to their son-in-law? Do you think that all in-laws are willing to change? My answer to all these question: NO. Some in-laws are manipulative, some are stubborn, some are demanding, some are "my-way-or-the-highway" kind of people...

Some are, some aren't.  In-laws and the couples involved.  I have been on both sides of that fence, and want to make sure the good side of things gets mentioned too.  Even if it does not work out, it is not always a horrible court scene.

[OlgaH]

Do you really think that all in-laws really want to resolve issues?

I just believe that not all in-laws are enemies and not able to resolve issues. It is very difficult to make friends with people when you have the already attitude that they are your potential enemies    

[Seeker]

Seeker-
Likely these...

I prefer pistachios... but yeah.  Like those.    

[OlgaH]

In Greg's case, I believe his wife was the first to retain an attorney, and her filing for a divorce came without him expecting it.   

Gator, do you believe or you know the fact?

[Misha]

I just believe that not all in-laws are enemies and not able to resolve issues. It is very difficult to make friends with people when you have the already attitude that they are your potential enemies    

The same is true for in-laws who think they are always right!

[Seeker]

The same is true for in-laws who think they are always right!

Of course!  But they aren't part of this discussion.  Imagine if they were!  WOW!!!  I think it would be a good thing... in 2 or 3 years when things calm down. 

But some day we will all be MIL/FIL if we have children.  Maybe we can learn more from this for our own future, and our children's.   

Edit to add:  I am a FIL.... for the last 10 years.  And I still think he is a jerk.  But she loves him... so I shut up and let her live her own life.  10 years and 4 grand-kids....  she says she is happy, so I think she did well.

[OlgaH]

Of course!  But they aren't part of this discussion.  Imagine if they were!  WOW!!!  I think it would be a good thing... in 2 or 3 years when things calm down. 

Seeker, but to be a part of this discussion they should know English enough. 

I don't know how Greg was communicating with his MIL. I don't know if his MIL knows English well, but if they were communicating through his wife many things could be also lost in translation.

I have never met Greg and his wife, and of course I was not witness of their life, I just can read what he wrote. I also think that not being with his wife while visiting her parents in Ukraine but spending the time with the friends doesn't help to much to improve relations with her mother but rather raises more questions. 

Me and my friend went to Lviv for an overnight train ride. Man I love that city. I will probably stay there the next time I'm here. It\s so much cheaper and easier to get around in. My wife has spent all the time with her family and understandibly so. I've just hung out with friend the American soldier on leave and a few others I have met along the way.

Greg, one day you wrote

Whatever you do don't and I mean don't tell her you came here seeking advice. And for the love of all things true and holy, don't and I mean don't give her the link to this place where she can read about all the doubts that everyone else had while trying to prove to her that you were not alone in doubting her. She will never understand...

Does your wife know about this forum?

Because you also wrote a very true statement, in my opinion of course

 Guys just need to be very honest when dealing with these women. It will come back to haunt you if you dont.

Some posts you wrote could trouble her if she would read it, I think.

It is just a food for thoughts.

[Blues Fairy]

Last I checked, marriage was a union between TWO people, why is the relationship with in-laws even an issue?  They shouldn't have any place at the negotiating table between spouses, let alone equal place at a round table.