more single men than women article

[Boethius]

So, then Misha, are you suggesting that all men who travel to the FSU and marry there are losers who, as Ken would say, "couldn't get laid in a whorehouse"?

[GQBlues]

I will have to apologize for my cynicism, but I always take the accounts of men who claim they can date so many women locally yet still go to Russia to marry very implausible

No need for apologies. You really just need to stop projecting your reality to everyone else. You'll find more clarity in life that way. 

[Gator]

I will have to apologize for my cynicism, but I always take the accounts of men who claim they can date so many women locally yet still go to Russia to marry very implausible

Rest assured that I struck out far more than I succeeded.  And just because I had a date doesn't mean I felt fulfilled.  I said I was bored, and is there anything worse than boredom.   Still cynical?

After my divorce from a RW, I went with AW again.  They are there in numbers (maybe because many men my age are dead  or just plain weird ).

[Misha]

So, then Misha, are you suggesting that all men who travel to the FSU and marry there are losers who, as Ken would say, "couldn't get laid in a whorehouse"?

Not losers, but men looking for women they could not find at home. Ed, IMHO, is being honest. He does not say that he could not date women, simply that he could not date attractive, young, women with no children who were interested in marriage. Dating is easy enough, getting "laid" is also easy, finding a woman that you want to marry who will marry you is the challenging part. Also, it must not be forgotten that marrying a woman from another country is a costly endeavor, and by costly I do not mean solely in terms of money.

Marrying a woman from another country implies sacrifices and stress that one would not have when marrying a local woman. It involves:

• Reams of paperwork and the nervous anticipation of seeing whether your application will be accepted;
• Culture shock: a year of pure hell in my experience;
• Time, lots of time. Time spent helping a spouse (usually) pass driver's exams, fill out more paperwork, time helping a wife study, helping her learn the English language;
• Homesickness that comes up from time to time even as culture shock has subsided;
• The stress of helping someone else start building a new career from scratch in a new country when they worry that they will never be able to work as they did back home;
• Time having to explain cultural nuances, social niceties and comforting a spouse who is at times distraught by the stress of it all;
• If you are truly unfortunate, then you will have the in-laws and their unending demands and, from other couple's that I have seen, scorn;

These are the stresses that you will have to deal with even when the marriage is good, even if you have a great marriage. It is not easy and let's compare it to what you will usually get marrying a local woman: someone who generally has a driver's license, drives, works, has friends and families that can be visited at a moment's notice without having to spend endless hours on planes, taxis and trains. In most cases she will even work and will be financially independent.

Now, explain to me why a man would marry a woman from another country if he could easily date and marry comparable women at home? Why would you even bother getting on a plane if you have a bevvy of beautiful women at your beck and call at home? I can understand that an expat who is working overseas might marry a woman while he is away, but I can't see why any other man would do it.

If you read these forums and if you meet couples that met and married in the FSU, you will come to understand that the men invariably do it, in spite of the challenges they face, because they believe they will be able to marry someone younger and/or more attractive than they could back home.

[Misha]

After my divorce from a RW, I went with AW again.  They are there in numbers (maybe because many men my age are dead  or just plain weird ).

And, how old are the local AW you are dating? I may be wrong, but I would expect they are a tad older that your ex-wife.

[Eduard]

Ed, IMHO, is being honest. He does not say that he could not date women, simply that he could not date attractive, young, women with no children who were interested in marriage. ... If you read these forums and if you meet couples that met and married in the FSU, you will come to understand that the men invariably do it, in spite of the challenges they face, because they believe they will be able to marry someone younger and/or more attractive than they could back home.

Misha, as usual you and I are on the same page...I wonder why is it so? Yes, if I lowered my standarts I had plenty of women to date. I had friends in their late 40s here where I live, who always invited me to their parties. There were always single women there in their late 40s who were totally hitting on me. Some of them were very rich cougars and were trying to get a nice looking younger man to be their boyfriend. I remember one even slapped me because I backed away when she tried to kiss me...well she was pretty drunk at the time and called and apologised the next day. But the fact is that I was just keeping all these women at a distance, as friends. There were some younger women around in their late 20s and early 30s but I just wasn't attracted to them for one reason or another. I wasn't looking for a model, just some one that I would feel genuinely attracted to and had a mental connection with. I also did meet a couple of women who didn't live in FL, they were attractive but I didn't like one thing or another about their personality. Yes, I admit, I was pretty picky. But I was looking for a wife and future mother of my children afterall. When I started looking in Russia my choices were pretty much unlimited, so after 2 years of frustrating search in the US I found my wife in a matter of 3 months in Russia.

[Gator]

And, how old are the local AW you are dating? I may be wrong, but I would expect they are a tad older that your ex-wife.

A "tad?"  Surely you jest.

Most were about 10-15 years younger than me which makes them a "light year" older than my ex-wife.

One AW was 20 years younger than me.  She wrote me on match.com because I had eliminated such age from my search.  Good looking, well-paid professional career.  I thought we were getting somewhere, and she even confided how her husband of 20+ years had decided to pursue the gay life.  Our relationship did not progress.

[Misha]

A "tad?"  Surely you jest.

LOL! Of course 

[Jooky]

Hey Eduard,

I just don't buy these 9 women to 10 men excuse articles for the same reason I don't buy the 'there are plenty of women in your own backyard' people.

1) If it was just a matter of numbers, the 'great catch' is still not going to be the 1 out of 10 guys left behind.

What if there were 10 women to 9 men, would the super hot gal with the great personality be left behind? I don't think so.

2) Life just doesn't work that way. These type of statistics have little to no bearing on our actual lives.

I grew up in the SF Bay where there are close to 3.5 million women. So what? No matter what I do I'm only going to come into contact with a tiny fraction of these women.
Maybe there are more men than women, maybe the other way around. Maybe the perfect woman lives 4 blocks away. It doesn't matter. It's not likely I would ever bump into her.

If I'm a high end lawyer working in downtown SF I'll come in contact with more women than if I'm a dork computer game programmer working from home. What matters is your individual situation not some men to women ratio.

[Gator]

When selling a product, it is best to work an area with a larger number of quality prospects.  Yet, even in a bad territory one can still prospect.  It just takes more work, and one must not be discouraged by rejection.  Some of you may need sales training. 

From decades ago in my sales training I recall the example of Shell Oil (?).  A business reporter asked the CEO why Shell discovered more new oil deposits than other oil companies.  His answer, “We drilled more holes.” 

It is not complicated.  Get out there and look.  Don’t depend upon serendipity or upon the woman taking the initiative.  There are places with plenty of women.  Just show up and act normal. 

Drill more holes, and maybe you will.

[Misha]

Clarity 101: Ego is a product of confidence brought about by real experiences. Delusions however are realities brought about by past agonizing failures.

Which is your clarity, Misha?

Please. I have met more than my share of blowhards who were perfectly capable of redefining each and every failure as success  But,  I see that you are doing your best to try to make me out as a failure. I presume that it is yet another way for you to boost your ego. Feel free. I for one am a firm believe in this Biblical passage: "Pride goes before destruction, a haughty spirit before a fall. Better it is to be of an humble spirit with the lowly, than to divide the spoil with the proud."

[GQBlues]

Please. I have met more than my share of blowhards who were perfectly capable of redefining each and every failure as success

No doubt. When does your membership expire with that club?

But,  I see that you are doing your best to try to make me out as a failure.

Honestly, in case you haven't noticed, I haven't even yet tried. I've been allowing you to lead things back to you.   Go 'head, read back from where you started this with me if you don't believe me. You could've had a V8, dude and not even know it.

I presume that it is yet another way for you to boost your ego.

My ego boosted from you being a 'failure'? LOL.

I for one am a firm believe in this Biblical passage: "Pride goes before destruction, a haughty spirit before a fall. Better it is to be of an humble spirit with the lowly, than to divide the spoil with the proud."

Holy bible-thumping, snake-oil selling pastor Batman! Now you're going religious on me! LOL.

You really crack me up. God have nothing to do with any of this silliness. Especially not yours. When will you folks ever get that? Now, I won't even get into the whole Vatican show going on of late...but sheeeesh Misha, MAN-UP! You're starting to embarrass me by even having this exchange with you.

[Misha]

You're starting to embarrass me by even having this exchange with you.

Then don't respond. 

[Eduard]

If I'm a high end lawyer working in downtown SF I'll come in contact with more women than if I'm a dork computer game programmer working from home. What matters is your individual situation not some men to women ratio.

Jooky, I think that both factors matter - statistics and the desirability of a man. Surely a very attractive Alpha male with a six figure salary will attract a lot more women. He will probably have a beautiful wife and even a girlfriend or two on the side (as many RM have in the FSU). But what's an average guy to do? And when I say average I don't mean an ugly, fat social misfit, but rather a guy like me, you, Misha and probably most guys on this forum and beyond. Truth is that for average guys like us we are pretty much out of luck if we are not married with children by the time we are 30. Another truth is that almost all average guys who happen to live in Russia are in high demand. As far as I remember, you live in Russia, so you should be seeing many couples where a guy is average and even below average looking and his girl is beautiful. You would hardly ever see a mismatched couple like that here in the US, but in Russia it's an ordinary thing. I think it is because of the statistics. handsome Alpha males couldn't satisfy the relationship needs of ALL RW even if they tried very hard, so many RW feel happy about having an average guy in their life and they truly appreciate him.

[Eduard]

PS
To be perfectly open and upfront about it I made a decision to look for my wife in the FSU not because "FSU women are more family oriented, more faithful, more traditional have better family values, etc". IMO it's basically MOB agency hype. I was born and raised in the FSU and I know that FSU women come in all shapes and colors. They also can cheat, they also can be deceitful and bitchy and dishonest and even evil.
Just like here in the US women in Russia are not all alike. There are great women here in the USA. I love midwestern women. I think that they generally have great family values, many of them are beautiful and down to earth. But the truth is that there is not enough of them for every guy who is looking for those qualities in his future spouse.
So here it is, telling it like it is: I went to look for my wife in Russia not because there were no women available here locally, where I live, but because in Russia I had a lot more choices and could find a much better looking, sexier, younger woman, who wasn't as spoiled by male attention as pretty local women were and who didn't have as much baggage as attractive local women had.
Now some of you will prolly say: "What??? Russian women don't have baggage?!?!?!"
Answer: sure, many of them do to one degree or another, but the choices of single attractive women are vast in the FSU compared to the USA, so if you don't like baggage, just move onto the next one with less or no baggage. The great part is that it IS possible in the FSU. So using my life experience and knowing what I know I got me the woman who I thought would be perfect for me - good heart, 10 in family values, 8 in looks. Good formula for a marriage IMO.

[Misha]

So here it is, telling it like it is: I went to look for my wife in Russia not because there were no women available here locally, where I live, but because in Russia I had a lot more choices and could find a much better looking, sexier, younger woman, who wasn't as spoiled by male attention as pretty local women were and who didn't have as much baggage as attractive local women had.

Your experience mirrors mine perfectly 

[Nat]

Mr Perfect is likely to be in demand no matter what the ratio of men to women is. However, the definition of what constitutes Mr Perfect changes as the ability of women to provide for themselves and their offspring changes. When women can provide for themselves and their offspring, they tend to have such a combination of requirements for Mr Perfect that even a talented guy who toils all his life to become a super being hardly will be able to satisfy all the requirements. Conversely, when women cannot provide all the desired conveniences for themselves and their offspring, they can discern Mr Perfect even in  good-for-nothing creatures.  Since the majority of FSU women live in an environment  that make them feeling less capable of independently providing for themselves and their offspring, it is easier to satisfy their requirements for  Mr Perfect than American women’ requirements. 

According my anthropology textbook, the only reliable predictor of females’ reluctance to form bonds with males in the world of primates is females’ ability to provide for themselves and their offspring. Based on this fact, I believe American men feel a shortage of women not because there are fewer women than men but because of American women acting as if they are unavailable since they feel little hope that men around them can qualify as Mr Perfect.

Wow, you're cool!

[Nat]

So here it is, telling it like it is: I went to look for my wife in Russia not because there were no women available here locally, where I live, but because in Russia I had a lot more choices and could find a much better looking, sexier, younger woman, who wasn't as spoiled by male attention as pretty local women were and who didn't have as much baggage as attractive local women had.

Well, according to your story you could hook up with girls who you didn't like and couldn't with the girls you liked, so it's more about shyness or lack of confidence. You knew how to deal with girls of your origin and mentality better, than with AW, so you had more chances and more confidence there. Moreover, you knew that RW tend to like men who live abroad as exotic men and men who can provide them better. So there appeared to be more women available for you in FSU than in the USA.

[Jooky]

I think that both factors matter - statistics and the desirability of a man.

I should have explained my example with the SF lawyer better. I didn't mean this is a handsome or desireable man. He's just in a different social situation.

For example, I have friends working in downtown SF in the 'yuppie' type of crowd. I also have friends that are bikers that hang out at bars. Both have access to a lot more women that me simply because:

1) They work in jobs where there are many women.
2) They socialize in public places where they can meet new people like happy hour after work.
3) They socialize at private parties where there is more exposure to meeting new people.

It's not about being a desireable alpha male, it's about exposure and 'drilling more holes' like what Gator wrote above.

What I'm saying is the quantity of available women to a particular man isn't based on some overall population statistics, it's based on his individual situation.

Also, who cares about quantity? There could be 20 women for every man, but if they were all fat and ugly (and you think you deserve better) then you're going to be lonely. When you write about your situation in Florida, it's clearly about quality not quantity. In that respect, I agree with you, it's way easier to meet quality women in Russia (especially if you're using online dating sites)... of course that depends on what qualities you're looking for. 

PS: I'm not an average Joe. I'm an exceptional misfit, and a very picky one too. 

[Misha]

You knew how to deal with girls of your origin and mentality better, than with AW, so you had more chances and more confidence there.

I did not share the origins and the mentality, yet I experienced the same thing as Ed 

[Misha]

It's not about being a desireable alpha male, it's about exposure and 'drilling more holes' like what Gator wrote above.

If finding oil was simply a question of drilling holes, we would have oil selling at less than $5-a-barrel 

Jooky, this is my experience. Searching online in Canada, there were few women in my city online and you would have to spend weeks wooing them in the hopes of a first date. Forget about women in other cities as they were not interested, in my experience, in long-distance relationships. I go to Russia and I could set up dates within a hour and meet several women when I wanted to do so. And, these were young and attractive women. This was simply not possible no matter how many women I chatted up online.

[Eduard]

Well, according to your story you could hook up with girls who you didn't like and couldn't with the girls you liked, so it's more about shyness or lack of confidence. You knew how to deal with girls of your origin and mentality better, than with AW, so you had more chances and more confidence there. Moreover, you knew that RW tend to like men who live abroad as exotic men and men who can provide them better. So there appeared to be more women available for you in FSU than in the USA.

Nat, you made a good point but I don't think it applies to me. I've been in the US for 31 years.  Before I met my 1st AW wife I dated 2 AW. Then met my AW wife at college and spent 15 years with her. I really don't feel uncomfortable or shy and confidence was never an issue with me around AW or any other women. I think that if I lived in a big city somewhere my dating experience would have been different, but I live in a small retirement city with population of about 150,000 and I feel that this was part of the problem. I had a friend who was a handsome guy, a golf pro, had exactly the same frustrating experience here. he finally couldn't take it any more and moved back to Michigan where he was originally from. He was married 1 year later.

[Jooky]

Searching online in Canada, there were few women in my city online and you would have to spend weeks wooing them in the hopes of a first date.

I think that if I lived in a big city somewhere my dating experience would have been different, but I live in a small retirement city with population of about 150,000 and I feel that this was part of the problem.

No different than what I'm saying. It's your individual situation that matters, not some 9/10 or 10/9 general population ratio.

[Misha]

No different than what I'm saying. It's your individual situation that matters, not some 9/10 or 10/9 general population ratio.

Go to a small Russian city with 100,000 or 50,000 or even 20,000 people, and you will still be able to find many more attractive and eligible women online than in cities 2, 3, 5 or 10 times larger. Also, there are some differences as well: in my experience, RW are much more open to meeting quickly for a date than in the case in North America and they will let you know quite openly if they are interested. Simply put, dating in Russia is much, much, much easier than in Canada, and from what Ed is saying, the United States as well.

[Lily]

I should have explained my example with the SF lawyer better. I didn't mean this is a handsome or desireable man. He's just in a different social situation.

For example, I have friends working in downtown SF in the 'yuppie' type of crowd. I also have friends that are bikers that hang out at bars. Both have access to a lot more women that me simply because:

1) They work in jobs where there are many women.
2) They socialize in public places where they can meet new people like happy hour after work.
3) They socialize at private parties where there is more exposure to meeting new people.

It's not about being a desireable alpha male, it's about exposure and 'drilling more holes' like what Gator wrote above.
 

Jooky,

I believe this is something not quite right here.

Let me explain. Exposure to many women in social situations would probably be not that helpful in case the men is not desirable. By being not desirable, I mean a variety of features which would be rather unattractive or uncomfortable to many women.

And lawyers, as far as from my own experience, are usually not the most attractive people, socially. Analytical mindset. Boring. Too serious. Too cautious There are exceptions, though.

I agree with your further outline saying that if a man is surrounded by 20 women but these women are all undesirable, then this men will be single. Isn't it a big exposure, is it?

The only thing that a man can do in order to improve his dating chances, is to increase his desirability. Same for a woman.