When to have a baby?

[Dar]

Your post is so far from reality in my world. For us to save 20k would mean saving for many many many years, maybe 10, maybe more. Health insurance is very cheap here, i pay like 40 euro a year plus a little extra for hospitalization insurance, and like i mentioned upthread it covers up to 90% of costs of any medical involvement.
We can't travel as it is, so if i have a baby i'm not gonna miss out on any travelling. I don't wear stiletto heels, and usually no tight outfits, food is no big deal for me(we don't go to restaurants either, i'd love to, but it's too expensive), grandma will take care of baby while we are at school (already asked), so all the hardships you describe sound easy
Like i said, the lack of money IS a contributing factor to my decision to have a baby, cuz like i said, a few years later, when baby goes to kindergarten (that is free, not counting some very minor costs), then i'm free to find a job, so there will be no lack of money then, and a little baby won't remember that we had not so much money while he/she was little

Oh, I am sorry. I misunderstood the fact that you live somewhere in Europe. Things are much easier there, you are right. The government is pretty generous over there in giving the money and providing all kinds of services for free. Its funny, my friends from back home keep asking me whether I get any money from the American government after my baby arrives. In Ukraine just for giving birth to a baby the government pays you something like $3.000. Over there it is a big money. Here, in the US you are lucky if you get some modest tax cuts. People who don't pay taxes at all don't benefit from this. Now I see the point of such policy, but it took me two years to accept the American way of thinking and running things. To be precise, I'd better say the more conservative capitalistic way of thinking.
I would describe more serious "hardships" like sleepless nights, baby getting sick, possible arguments with your spouse.... However, I have not experienced any of those myself yet (and, hopefully, I won't. Or, the exposure to those things would be minimal and painless). So far I only heard about those things from my married friends and acquaintances. I guess, I'll be able to tel more in a few months.
Please, don't think that I am trying to show the motherhood in a bad light. I simply want to make sure that you make this important decision with a compete picture in your mind because quite often young girls look at things through pink colored glasses.
As Kuna said, the support of your husband and your family is very important. I am glad that your husband finally agreed with you on the idea of having a baby. I think it would be helpful to discuss with your husband the way you see your future responsibilities and the lifestyle generally when a baby arrives. That will help to avoid unpleasant surprises and disappointments in the future. Besides of that, I wish you both the best of luck. I am sure that there is much more pleasure than disappointment in being the young parents    

[Aloe]

Aloe,

Great to see your relationship has stabilized to the point that you agree about having a child.  Just be sure that you both understand up front this will be a new stressor in your life and can have some 'hangover's' like post-partum depression (both sides btw) associated with it.. read up a bit, discuss with hubby up front and you'll be fine.  As far as finances go, the major hurdle is overcome by socialized medicine and good social service support so be happy.  Go to classes together when you get the chance, let hubby in on that first echogram picture etc etc.  Whatever you do, remember to keep your hubby happy by not letting him feel ignored with the goings on.  Make him a part from start to finish.

I wouldn't worry too much about condoms and such.. your body will know when it's time - and it probably takes a few months for the pill to 'wear off'.

You were born with all the eggs you need so not to worry which one is next in line.

Food?? - variety is the best solution.

I think you'll find that there is also an erotic aspect for both sides a la' 'knock me up baby!' so just 'do it' and enjoy trying - together.

it's not the concieving part i'm worried about, regarding the pill. Some people get pregnant while having missed only one pill in a cycle. It's the part that how a pill and its leftovers in the organsim may harm a baby.
I read a bit on the depression you mention. I'm not sure "depression" is a real medical sickness. I think people just need to cheer up, that's all

[Aloe]

Oh, I am sorry. I misunderstood the fact that you live somewhere in Europe. Things are much easier there, you are right. The government is pretty generous over there in giving the money and providing all kinds of services for free. Its funny, my friends from back home keep asking me whether I get any money from the American government after my baby arrives. In Ukraine just for giving birth to a baby the government pays you something like $3.000. Over there it is a big money. Here, in the US you are lucky if you get some modest tax cuts. People who don't pay taxes at all don't benefit from this. Now I see the point of such policy, but it took me two years to accept the American way of thinking and running things. To be precise, I'd better say the more conservative capitalistic way of thinking.
I would describe more serious "hardships" like sleepless nights, baby getting sick, possible arguments with your spouse.... However, I have not experienced any of those myself yet (and, hopefully, I won't. Or, the exposure to those things would be minimal and painless). So far I only heard about those things from my married friends and acquaintances. I guess, I'll be able to tel more in a few months.
Please, don't think that I am trying to show the motherhood in a bad light. I simply want to make sure that you make this important decision with a compete picture in your mind because quite often young girls look at things through pink colored glasses.
As Kuna said, the support of your husband and your family is very important. I am glad that your husband finally agreed with you on the idea of having a baby. I think it would be helpful to discuss with your husband the way you see your future responsibilities and the lifestyle generally when a baby arrives. That will help to avoid unpleasant surprises and disappointments in the future. Besides of that, I wish you both the best of luck. I am sure that there is much more pleasure than disappointment in being the young parents    

Thanks for support Here you get 1.1k euro when a baby is born, i looked up prices on baby stuff, and that's enough to buy all the one time cost things, like a baby bed, stroller and etc.

[Shadow]

  After you get pregnant pickles and ice cream will sound really good:) My exwife got pregnant the first month after she went off the pill every damn time. Maybe thats why I had all girls. So far they seem kind of normal.

Normal by comparison to ? 

[Shadow]

Aloe so your husband has decided it would be a good thing. Now the hard work starts.

Regarding pregnancy, there is a specific kind of vitamines (foliumzuur) to take in order to support concpetion and improve pregnancy. After that it is time to listen to your body.
Eat healthy, stop junk food, drink little to no coffee, no chocolate.
As pregnancy progresses you will find you want to eat more times, but in smaller quantities.
You may gain weight or not, but do not go on diet or try to gain weight, let nature run your schedule. Eat what you really want but do not overdo it.
Expect strange feelings during pregnancy, first time you feel bubbles in your stomach its the baby kicking. Once you will know what kicks are, you will worry when the baby is sleeping, waiting to feel the moves again.
Take information on where to deliver (Virga Jesse in Hasselt was great for us), and decide early on if and what type of sedation you want, as it will decide how much time you have to get to the hospital when labour starts.

[Aloe]

Aloe so your husband has decided it would be a good thing. Now the hard work starts.

Regarding pregnancy, there is a specific kind of vitamines (foliumzuur) to take in order to support concpetion and improve pregnancy. After that it is time to listen to your body.
Eat healthy, stop junk food, drink little to no coffee, no chocolate.
As pregnancy progresses you will find you want to eat more times, but in smaller quantities.
You may gain weight or not, but do not go on diet or try to gain weight, let nature run your schedule. Eat what you really want but do not overdo it.
Expect strange feelings during pregnancy, first time you feel bubbles in your stomach its the baby kicking. Once you will know what kicks are, you will worry when the baby is sleeping, waiting to feel the moves again.
Take information on where to deliver (Virga Jesse in Hasselt was great for us), and decide early on if and what type of sedation you want, as it will decide how much time you have to get to the hospital when labour starts.

Thanks for infos Hasselt is a bit far, i was thinking Sint-trudo, it's a lot closer to us, only like 7 km. Hasselt is 30 mins away. No chocolate is bad news!! How am i supposed to live without chocolate??

[Boethius]

I read a bit on the depression you mention. I'm not sure "depression" is a real medical sickness.

Depression is indeed a very serious medical illness, caused by a lack of serotonin.  About half of women get post partum depression to some degree.  1 in 1,000 suffer severe PPD.

If you are planning on getting pregnant, start taking maternal vitamins now.  They should also be taken throughout pregnancy.  Be sure your folic acid levels, in particular, are adequate.

[BC]

Aloe,

Since a woman is born with all the eggs they need they have lived through every environmental and chemical stress the rest of your body has.  I doubt the pill will affect things at all.  Do your husband a favor and don't wait... LOL

Men can also get depressed during and after pregnancy..  It's tough leaving the limelight, getting less attention and less sec in the final stage of pregnancy.  Keep him well fed and happy throughout so that he doesn't feel left behind.

Besides kicking, hiccups are also fun to observe.. I woke up one night wondering what was happening under the covers.

[Dar]

I like how you, guys, give advices on pregnancy 

Regarding the conception, I think that the best thing is to let things go their own way. Personally, my husband and I did exactly that. Less you concentrate your attention on it, sooner it is going to happen for you. It is also a much emotionally healthier approach.
I would not recommend taking prenatal vitamins before you actually get pregnant. I generally live a healthy lifestyle and take care of my body well. I take multi, calcium and a few other supplements on a regular basis. Never eat in the fast food restaurants, rarely consume soda or any artificial soft drinks (I may have one only if there is no other option available) and only occasionally I eat any sweets besides of pure dark chocolate. Salads, lean meat and soups are my all time favorites.
Well, when I got pregnant, nothing really changed for me. I compared the supplement list and the dosage of my multi-vitamins with the contents of a few prenatal vitamin brands. What I discovered is that all prenatal vitamins have much lower dosage of calcium and some other supplements (I can not give the names off the top of my head). The only advantage of prenatal vitamins is the higher dosage of B Complex, Folic Acid and sometimes added DHA Complex, which is an important supplement to take during the pregnancy. The rest of the vitamins and minerals are either missing (about half of them) or in the lower quantities. This is the reason not to rush in with the vitamins for pregnant when you are not actually pregnant. Even during the pregnancy, you'd probably have to take additional supplements.
I think that hospitals, pain reducing methods etc. are too far to talk about right now. Those things should be discussed in the end of a second trimester. Before that you just sit back and relax. You live you life as you used to live. Pregnancy is not a sickness. Honestly, sometimes I even forget that I am pregnant (except of those times when I look in the mirror and see that growing bump in it - hey, I look kind of cute).
 

[Boethius]

I gave birth to 3 healthy children, Dar, within the space of 3 1/2 years.  My ob-gyn told me to take prenatal vitamins.   Folic acid, in particular, is critical to the development of a healthy fetus, and the levels must be adequate before pregnancy.

I never took prenatal classes, and never discussed pain reduction methods.  I made that decision when I was in labour.

[Shadow]

The reason I give advice is because things are pretty fresh in our minds
Yes you can decide during labour, however if you have to decide between the labour pains and some long needles and machines taped to you it is at the time a pretty confusing thing to make. MrsShadow delivered without pain reduction both times.

Not concentrating on getting pregnant is the best way, just make the decision not to use birth control and let nature do the rest. Do not expect instant results, and do not get nervous about getting pregnant.

Hospitals have regular visiting hours to the delivery rooms, so you can see what is there and how things work. While it may be early to do now, visiting is a good idea as when you are in labour you will not have a lot of time to inspect all facilities and ask what you can or can not do.

[Boethius]

Yes you can decide during labour, however if you have to decide between the labour pains and some long needles and machines taped to you it is at the time a pretty confusing thing to make.

Actually, no, it isn't confusing at all.  Every labour is different, and you can only know whether you need an epidural once you are actually in labour.

[Shadow]

Actually, no, it isn't confusing at all.  Every labour is different, and you can only know whether you need an epidural once you are actually in labour.

I agree, however before knowing if you need one it would be helpful to know exactly what an epidural is, does and how it works during the time of labour.

A (very bad) comparison is taking a car sliding course. You will not know if you need to react to this kind of situation, however when the sliding happens it helps a lot to know what happens and what can be the result of your actions.

Preparation for decision to be made does make it easier to make it.

[DKMM]

I don't understand the comment about waiting after the pill.  Well if it doesn't work the month after the pill, its not exactly a waste of time to try!  It took us 2 months after stoppage of pill to conceive but I remember those days as some of the best in my life!  Keep trying, its good for you!

I didn't mean to start a USA/Belgium comparison game as people will always have different views of which systems work best for them.  Some people need a bit more help in life and some are more productive without half their taxes going to other people needing help so you will find pros and cons in each place.  Perhaps a more accurate view of somebody wanting to move to Belgium would be the people who wouldn't make much money in their career elsewhere.  As for me, we would never want to have kids anywhere else.  The 10k a year we pay in health insurance gets us top medical treatment.  since I'm a producer in society we actually "get" quite a bit of money from the govt. when baby arrives, about $2000 a year.  That's about enough to pay for his insurance though...

[groovlstk]

Since this may be useful to Aloe sometime down the road and thus isn't too far off topic: how do pregnant RW deal w/cravings for caviar, smoked salmon or other uncooked fish, etc., since those shouldn't be eaten during pregnancy?

[Boethius]

It is usually something in that particular food that your body needs.  So, find a substitute.

[Aloe]

Called a gyno i liked in the small town nearby. SHE IS BOOKED UNTIL END OF 2011 LOL. How the hell does that happen? Why would anyone call up a doctor and be like hey, ill take an appointment 1 year from now. I dont get it

[TheTraveler]

I would not recommend taking prenatal vitamins before you actually get pregnant.

I wouldn't take that poster's advice... unless you are interested in increasing the chance of your future baby being born with a neural tube defect, such as spina bifida.

For medical advice, I'd listen to an Obstetrician/Gynecologist.

The OB/GYN's will all recommend folic acid supplements while trying to get pregnant and in the early part of pregnancy.

I have a friend who is an OB/GYN, and I helped him a while back with the technical aspects of preparing a powerpoint presentation on folic acid, and its role in substantially reducing the risk of spina bifida and other neural tube defects.  The facts are compelling.

That doesn't make me an expert, either.  Don't take my word for it.  I'm just saying that some of the amateur chatter can do a lot more harm than good, so seek professional guidance on the medical issues.

[TheTraveler]

The government is pretty generous over there in giving the money and providing all kinds of services for free. Its funny, my friends from back home keep asking me whether I get any money from the American government after my baby arrives. In Ukraine just for giving birth to a baby the government pays you something like $3.000. Over there it is a big money. Here, in the US you are lucky if you get some modest tax cuts. People who don't pay taxes at all don't benefit from this.

I hope you're not oblivious to the fact that not paying any taxes at all is a benefit.

[Dar]

Since this may be useful to Aloe sometime down the road and thus isn't too far off topic: how do pregnant RW deal w/cravings for caviar, smoked salmon or other uncooked fish, etc., since those shouldn't be eaten during pregnancy?

  I am 5 month into my pregnancy, and so far I haven't had any cravings at all. One thing I can say is that in the beginning of my pregnancy I felt like eating some Ukrainian cuisine such as borscht and home style pot roast with potato. I guess I just got home sick since neither my husband nor I eat or cook russian/ukrainian dishes here. The last time I ate something like that was at my parents when I visited them (unfortunately, they don't eat as healthy as I'd like them to). So, once I made that traditional ukraian dinner, my cravings were gone for good.
Bthw, some women never get cravings. I talked to one of my ukrainian friends who is further in her pregnancy than I am. She told me the same thing. She just doesn't understand how it feels to crave for something because she had never experienced those feelings.

I think you'd deal with the food cravings the same way you deal with other desires: you either satisfy them or suppress them. Personally, I don't see food as the source of pleasure, so it is easy for me to say no to any sort of food. I know that for some people it can be much harder.

[Dar]

I wouldn't take that poster's advice... unless you are interested in increasing the chance of your future baby being born with a neural tube defect, such as spina bifida.

For medical advice, I'd listen to an Obstetrician/Gynecologist.

The OB/GYN's will all recommend folic acid supplements while trying to get pregnant and in the early part of pregnancy.

I have a friend who is an OB/GYN, and I helped him a while back with the technical aspects of preparing a powerpoint presentation on folic acid, and its role in substantially reducing the risk of spina bifida and other neural tube defects.  The facts are compelling.

That doesn't make me an expert, either.  Don't take my word for it.  I'm just saying that some of the amateur chatter can do a lot more harm than good, so seek professional guidance on the medical issues.

I did not say "ANY vitamins". I was specifically talking about prenatal vitamins. I've already explained why. Of course, if you don't take any vitamins at all it would be nice to start at least with the prenatal. I was saying that prenatal vitamins lack about half of the ingredients that one needs to take daily. Personally, I was taking variety of vitamins for the last couple of years including Folic Acid. My doctors did not express any concern when I gave them the list of the supplements that I was taking. In fact, they did not recommend to switch to prenatal unless I want to. The reason for that is quite simple, I was getting all the necessary nutrition that one needs.  I actually did switch, once again for the reasons I stated in one of my previous posts.  However, I am taking additional supplements now as well in order to get the right amount of nutrition.
And before you call me "an amateur" chatter, please, read my post with a bit more attention. Again, I'd repeat for you and everyone else that if you don't take any supplements now you'd better start, but if you have been taking multi or other vitamins like I have, don't hurry to switch. It also depends on your diet. How healthy you eat. If you eat organic and your diet consists of mainly veggies, fruit and lean meats you are in a much better situation than someone who likes hamburgers and bacon with potato.

[Dar]

I hope you're not oblivious to the fact that not paying any taxes at all is a benefit.

It is true if you legally eligible for that kind of benefit. I know people who don't pay taxes because they don't want to, not because they are allowed to do so by the government.
In Europe, not only extremely poor people benefit the most like it is in the USA, but everyone else too. Any individual can get some sort of financial compensation. For example, in Ukraine everyone receives $3.000 no matter what is your salary level. In USA only extremely poor get the most out of government's "generosity". Sadly, those who work a lot and hard have to give more than they get back. 

[Boethius]

I did not say "ANY vitamins". I was specifically talking about prenatal vitamins.

Prenatal vitamins are specifically formulated for early fetal development and, therefore, contain more folic acid, calcium, and iron, and less Vitamin A (which can harm a developing fetus) than other vitamins.

[Dar]

Prenatal vitamins are specifically formulated for early fetal development and, therefore, contain more folic acid, calcium, and iron, and less Vitamin A (which can harm a developing fetus) than other vitamins.

I've just looked at the label: Calcium - 150ml, verses 250ml in my multi that I took before the pregnancy. Even 250 is only 25% of a daily value. That is why I, personally, take additional 600ml of Calcium a day despite the calcium I get in my yogurts.
It is true that in prenatal vitamins on average 10mcg more of Iron. Prenatal have also a bit less than 1mg of Folic Acid verses about 600 mcg in multi. Folic Acid is a very important element for woman whether she is pregnant or not. Again, I've been taking additional 400 mcg of Folic Acid on a regular basis even before my pregnancy. However, keep in mind that we get some vitamins in our food too. For example, dark green lettuce are rich in Folic Acid. I also would like to warn, however, that it could be harmful to take more than 1mg of Folic Acid a day.
I would like to note that I am not trying to persuade anybody to follow my example. I only share my experience and my opinion about things. Anyway, this is an interesting conversation. We definitely should discuss these things because the health and the well being is indeed crucial for mother and her baby.   

[DKMM]

It is true if you legally eligible for that kind of benefit. I know people who don't pay taxes because they don't want to, not because they are allowed to do so by the government.
In Europe, not only extremely poor people benefit the most like it is in the USA, but everyone else too. Any individual can get some sort of financial compensation. For example, in Ukraine everyone receives $3.000 no matter what is your salary level. In USA only extremely poor get the most out of government's "generosity". Sadly, those who work a lot and hard have to give more than they get back.  

I just explained how I benefit from having a baby to the tune of $2,000 a year.  That's a lot more than I would get in Ukraine.  I don't think Ukraine is a model of social or fiscal policy since it basically lives off of Russia and the IMF and has one of the lowest birth rates in the world.  The only way having a child will not deliver you some financial aid in the USA is if you are self employed and already cheat on your taxes [edited].  BTW I know of a Ukrainian man nearby who was deported after getting a DUII and was found to have been not paying his taxes on his business.

personal insult