Mental Health Check-up

[KevinD]

Hello posters and fellow lurkers!

I am a long time lurker. I have read this board for a few months and taken to heart most of the advice.

Now I wish to ask all y'all if I have lost my mind.

I originally joined Anastasia. A big thanks to you all for warning me about Anastasia! I only lost $100 to those crooks.

Last spring, I joined EM and a personal site. I have been mostly pleased with that site. I made a lot of mistakes in the beginning. I got frustrated with the scams and women who were not serious.

A couple of weeks ago I decided to look again. My idea was to find a few women from the same area (St Petersburg) and then schedule a trip in the spring to meet a few of them in person. I did not believe it is possible to fall in love over emails. I thought a personal meeting was the only way to know if someone is right.

Then about 10 days ago I wrote to a woman in St Petersburg. She responded with a nice letter. By the second letter I was totally smitten. I do not know why! We then started chatting on Skype and for the past week we have been talking everyday and usually twice a day. We talk for hours about everything (well except for the weather). It has been wonderful!

So far so good, right?

I told her I think it is time we discussed a visit and she agreed she would like that too. So I am asking all you experienced people to tell me whether I am crazy or not. I also would like to know if I missed any red flags.


A little bit about me. I am 40 years old and divorced with no children. I do not want children and I am very clear about that. I am in reasonably attractive and in good shape. The lady I have fallen for is 37 years old, divorced for 10 years and no children. She says she does not want children either. She is very pretty, tall and slim. She is not a supermodel. She is very modest. She must be the only Russian woman on the site without a bikini picture! She has sent me many pictures but none that are risqué in the least. She has not brought up the topic of sex. I have not either. I think she would be offended.

She told me the economy is really bad and there are no jobs in Ukraine so she moved to St Petersburg to find work. She also told me she lost a good paying job several months ago and is now working at a less paying job. I checked her IP address and it is from St Petersburg.

We are planning a visit to her town in Ukraine. She will be home for the New Year’s holiday. She lives in Rivne. She will meet me at the airport in Kiev. I asked her if she would rather stay in Kiev or Kivne. She said Kivne is better because it is cheaper. She has never asked for money, gifts or anything.

Is it too soon to be planning a meeting?

Does anyone see any red flags? Living in St Petersburg but from Ukraine? The 10 years since divorce? The low paying job? No talk of a sexual nature? No risqué photos?

Any ideas, suggestions, or thoughts will be appreciated.

Kevin

[acrzybear]

The only way you will know for sure is to see her in person, so make your reservations and go.

[ace131]

Hello Kevin,
just read yout message here. it does not look like there are any red flags. by your words she sounds very sincere. certinly there must be honest ladies on these sites not only game players and scammers.
Go head and meet her if you have such chemistry. how long are you planning to stay in Ukraine? it is true it will be cheaper for you to meet in Rivne than St. Petersburg or Kiev.
in case you need any help while in Ukraine you can let me know i will be happy to help you.
Ace131

[Kuna]

Kevin,

Firstly congrats for stepping out of the shadows and asking questions.  You'll get advice that can be helpful but ultimately the outcomes of this adventure are up to you and your actions, and which pieces of advice you choose to listen to.

So...  from what you've written it all sounds good to me.  It's not a red flag that she moved from Ukraine to StPete for work opportunities... she may very well have family in StPete to give some support while there. A friend of my wife was in a similar situation and went to Vladivostok for12 months.

It's a big plus that she wants to meet in her hometown.  It's not just because she is demonstrating she is careful with money (which is a good quality in most situations) but also she is happy to be in situations where you may meet her friends and family.

The age gap is not an issue in thiscase. There seems to be compatibility in future goals (no children) but of course always be aware it's a rare woman who will choose not to have children though many say that when they are outside of a stable relationship.  At 37 she'd have to have that change of mind quickly if she was ever going to because of the increased risks of child birth in later ages.

The ONLY way you will know if this is real and reasonable is to go and meet her.  That is when the real excitement starts but I'd encourage you to keep your head on straight and continue to be"serious" (mindful, thoughtful and focused - not let the excitement control you.

You sound like a very level headed guy anyway... book your flights...  enjoy the experience and despite some of the negatives you'll read here please remember there are many of happily married men here.

Welcome to the posting ranks in RWD.

[KevinD]

Thank you acrazybear. It is nice to know you do not see any warning signs.

Ace -- We are planning the week after Christmas, including New Year's Eve. Thank you for your offer of assistance. What do you do in Ukraine? You may PM me if you like.

Kevin

[Ade]

Once you've done your due diligence and ascertained a least a modicum of compatibility there's no reason to delay a trip and the sooner you go the better. IMO far too many men delay way too long.

From your description there are no red flags at all. Try to relax and lose any paranoia you may feel as it can quickly sour a good thing. Just don't go so far as to buy any bridges or invest in any gold mines.

Good luck.

[GoodOlBoy]

Once you've done your due diligence and ascertained a least a modicum of compatibility there's no reason to delay a trip and the sooner you go the better. IMO far too many men delay way too long.

Agree completely!
Welcome to the forum KevinD.
Everything that you have outlined so far, sounds good (BIG plus she wants you to come to her hometown).
If you have the resources (money & time), it really is better to go meet a good FSUW ASAP (after appropriate communications of course).
Good luck and have a great time!

GOB

[Faux Pas]

Welcome to RWD Kevin!

Most guys who know would agree that there's little to be gained by delaying your trip. Even though you've talked about everything but the weather doesn't mean you "know" each other. You basically equate to pen pals that really like each other a lot. Keep in mind the dating ritual is a bit different, i.e. the planning, travel and you leave your comfort zone. Other than that the dating isn't really any different.

 Your meeting and/or dates with this lady could easily go South or escalate to defcon 5. For this reason, formulate yourself some sort of back up plan. It may be as simple as identified and the phone number of a local agency. Contact ace131 as this seems to be an area you might find him useful as a "friend on the ground". I see no flags from your descriptions and it looks like you are in for the time of your life but, there are no guarantees your meeting will click. If it doesn't take advantage of the location.

Good Luck

[Shadow]

Welcome Kevin,

First of all I think you have little to worry about. Most of the signs are good ones, and meeting you in her home town does imply she wishes to show you to her friends and family.

One small question I would like to ask, your original plans were early spring, was it her suggestion to change this, and to pick the location ?

As for what to do, you do not need to worry. In the FSU the holiday season is one time that you can always find a celebration going on, so even if the town is small and without any sights you will not be bored. Remember that celebrations start at Hanukkah, followed by Western Christmas, New Year, Easter Christmas, Old New Year and last up to Chinese New Year. So from mid-December to end of January people will keep warm by celebrating.

Further the main thing to do is to discover the woman you will be meeting. Get to know her, her family and friends, and be surprised at the life stlye in the FSU. Learn how to drink vodka (repeat their habits in eating and drinking but try to drink half ), expect the unexpected and forget about your local food for the time being.

[JR]

Welcome Kevin.
The only red flag I see is that you're smitten by the second email. But so what, you've gone past that and things still look great.

So.....

go

Go

GO!!!!!!!!!!

[GQBlues]

Hey Kevin -

Good to see you're planning on a trip. I just want to say good luck and hope you can carefully negotiate your steps along the sidewalks of FSU. The sidewalks can be pretty slippery in FSU during this time, so make sure you're not holding and clutching hands but rather have your hand underneath her elbow, or lightly across her lower back in case either of you slip.

It can get pretty chilly in FSU..unlike places like, say...California or even Florida. 

[ECOCKS]

+1 on almost all of these posts. Go enjoy yourself, just keep your awareness level on warm-standby and you should be fine. Rivne is a reasonable city and you should have a great time.

[camachinist]

Hi Kevin and welcome....

So far so good, right?

Other than the 'falling in love over e-mails' being a bit tenuous, sounds good. I've been in Ukraine during the holidays and got to celebrate Christmas twice, due to the differing customs/calendars, and the month I was there was one I'll always cherish. You'll get a great opportunity to see your lady on her home turf and experience her friends and family.

Be aware the differences in culture can be intoxicating, presuming you haven't traveled a lot to the CIS/FSU. It can move you. Think of the trip as a good start.

I'll echo having a local contact as a backup, as well as getting the number of an interpreter and/or driver, in case you want to explore on your own, or if things go sideways. A local contact should be able to help you in that regard.

Good luck and safe travels

[BillyB]

Then about 10 days ago I wrote to a woman in St Petersburg. She responded with a nice letter. By the second letter I was totally smitten. I do not know why! We then started chatting on Skype and for the past week we have been talking everyday and usually twice a day. We talk for hours about everything (well except for the weather). It has been wonderful!

So far so good, right?

I told her I think it is time we discussed a visit and she agreed she would like that too. So I am asking all you experienced people to tell me whether I am crazy or not. I also would like to know if I missed any red flags.

Talked 10 days and talked about everything? Have you talked religion? Is she conservative or liberal in her views? Does it match yours? There are lots of topics to be talked about that can determine if you can or can't live the rest of your life with the woman. Chemistry isn't everything.

You know that some women don't like sex? Some need it only once a month or once a week? Is that ok with you? Next time you talk to her, tell her you what to talk about how you see your future and life with a wife. Tell her intimacy is important to you. If the woman is serious about you, she will want to hear that you are talking serious issues and that you're not a cold fish. Beleive it or not, women care about your sexual performance too. There's a way to talk to her about sex without looking like a pervert. If she says intimacy isn't important her, you may want to hold off on your visit and find a woman that you can live all life with.

[camachinist]

OP, how is her spoken and understood English? You said you've 'chatted on Skype and talked about many subjects'. IME, talking about aspects of intimacy can be difficult when a language barrier exists, even if minor. I had far better results talking about such matters in person, where intonation, expressions and body language could be interpreted in real time. Fewer 'misunderstandings'.

IMO, if you're ready to go and don't hinge the whole trip on resounding success with someone you haven't yet met in person, you'll do fine. Accept what comes and enjoy the time you spend. Time is a precious gift we only get so much of. Make it count

[Jumper]

Accept what comes and enjoy the time you spend

absolutely agree.




as far as the question (am i crazy) *too soon for a trip?*
 
if you have the time and resources ..
why not?
everything seems fine and the best way to learn about each other is in person.


just remember initially it is just a date,
and regardless travel , try and keep your expectations to the same level as any local date.


Good luck !

and yes ultimately the answer is:

 yes! you are crazy!


like most of us.

[KevinD]

Thank you all very much for your advice. It has been a very busy weekend. I read all your posts and I am very glad to see unanymous opinion. That is rare here  

My lady friend and I had some very serious conversations over the weekend. I know feel 100% comfortable going to see her. The plane tickets are purchased and plans are being made. I will arrive on the 30th and leave the 8th. We will have New Years and Russian Christmas together.

She is booking the apartment. I know that can be an area of concern so I want to see how see handles the responsibility. So far she is excellent. She has her mother looking at apartments and her mother is photographing everything!

Kuna -- I missed your post the last time I posted. No offense intended. I really appreciate your advice and "kind words".

Shadow -- I was the one that first suggested a visit. I held true to my hard and fast rule of never planning a visit in the first week of correspondence I gave her 3 times I was available to travel. She preferred the holidays so I can meet her family and friends.

Camachinest and BillyB – The sex talk was really concerning me. I decided not to bring it up myself for fear of sounding like a pervert of sex tourist. I was just going to see what happened in person. Then in one of our talks, she opened the door slightly and I took advantage and started the conversation. I think she was relieved that she could ask some questions that she was concerned about. I think the topic of sex just has to be a very individual decision.

GQBlues – that is a great suggestion!

JR, Ecock, GOB and AJ – thank you all for your support. So to all you fellow lurkers, listen when the experienced guys say go.

And finally, Faux Pas – The back-up plan is essential. I am usually very analytical and cautious. I almost feel disloyal, but I have made contingency arrangements. If things go south I will head to Kiev for the remainder of my trip.

I thank you all for your advice and support. I will definitely do a trip report. I have learned so much from other peoples experiences. Hopefully some other lurker will learn from my successes and failures.

Kevin

[I/O]

Kevin: No harm (IMO) in having her arrange apartments and or other accommodation (provided you keep your eyes open) as it is a very interesting way to "sus" her out (and maybe her mother also).

I almost feel disloyal, but I have made contingency arrangements.

It isn't disloyal to have an exit strategy. I'm not a fan of lining up a row of fluff to brush but there is no harm in having fall back holiday options.

[JR]

She is booking the apartment. I know that can be an area of concern so I want to see how see handles the responsibility. So far she is excellent. She has her mother looking at apartments and her mother is photographing everything!

I almost feel disloyal, but I have made contingency arrangements. If things go south I will head to Kiev for the remainder of my trip.

Kevin

No big deal with her or her mom making the apartment arrangements, just verify the price range online. If what they find is three times the going rate you may want to look at that.

You feel disloyal to what? A person you have never met? Remember either one of you can hear that voice inside say "nope" within the first three seconds of meeting. You're the one doing most of the investing, keep the feelings of loyalty in check and in perspective.

If the situation isn't feeling right don't hesitate to pull the plug and go to plan B.

There will be misunderstandings, give the benefit of the doubt, remember it's not her native tongue, check yourself for what and how you say things. Give it an honest chance but don't wallow in a mud hole. If her behavior isn't something you'd put up with (or really want in your daily life ) for the next ten years don't make excuses, move on.

If you find a diamond, keep it))) I mean do what it takes to keep it. Don't be wishy-washy, make decisions and make it happen.

Most of all enjoy the trip, treat it as a vacation and a learning experience. Explore the culture. Have fun and share it with us if you're bold enough. Ignore the peanut gallery who'll tell you are doing things all wrong no matter what you do because it's not their way. There is only one way, yours. You have to find your way through this in a manner that makes you feel comfortable.

Best of everything to you Kevin.

[SomeGuy]

OP,

You've already received much collective wisdom in many of the responses, so I'll mostly skip the 'me too' parts.

I would simply ask yourself if you were smitten by the second letter, were you smitten by this person you didn't know at all, the idea of it all, or her pictures?  Only you can answer that.  It is of course possible she had such an excellent detailed profile that you were excited by the possibilities, and I do wish you well, but - something to think about, as it's easy enough to hear/see what you want to, especially when you don't yet know someone.

I also don't see any red flags here on her side from what you've shared.  I've met a few people that also worked in areas of the FSU other than where they called home, it happens.  At least one of them was working in St. Petersburg, for that matter.  There are also plenty of single, attractive 35YO+ FSUW out there, some indeed without children, and many divorced (the majority).

The visit to her home town and her acknowledging it's cheaper could be a plus, showing both a willingness to have you around friends and family, as well as not wanting to take you to the cleaners.

The one thing that really stood out to me was your concern over no risque talk or pictures.  There are all types of personalities in the FSU, just like anywhere else.  While it's true enough that many agency sites will have 18-20-somethings in a relative lack of clothing, that is by no means a universal.  Yes, some FSUW are less modest than their western sisters, others will use whatever 'tools' they have at their disposal to achieve their goals, and I have no doubt that many agencies even suggest such pictures, but people are individual, and not everyone wants half naked pictures as their first impression given.  While I would say some level of at least somewhat risque pictures exist in > 50% of the online profiles, I will say that I had no desire to get to know > 50% of those online, no matter how pretty the picture.  Remember those that say it's only a penpal until you're in person, and there is some truth in that - with the women being possible even more aware of this than the men.  Would you want someone who on first contact, sent a bunch of risque pictures and then started cybering with you?  I would expect that from a green card, party, or webcam girl, but not from someone real that I've exchanged a few hours of conversation with.  Just like in 'real life,' some women do need to get comfortable with a guy, even moreso with it only being a penpal relationship at this time.  Yes, subjects should become more wider ranging and open over time, but I would not say 10 days is much time.  Some subjects will become open for discussion in person, or at least after meeting, at which point you may transition from penpal to the real world in her (and your) eyes. 

In person, of course, there should be little doubt as to if she likes you or not.  I won't go into the silly debate on when you 'should' have sex, but you will certainly know where you stand by her actions or lack thereof, and definitely not only sexually.  If she's ensuring you're dressed warmly enough, 'preening you' before you leave the apartment, taking your arm, touching - there are plenty of non verbal ways she might show interest, and she still may not have given you a risque picture or discussed much about sex.  Give it real time, establish a real relationship, whether still pen pal but with more time, or in person, and the rest will work itself out, with or without pictures.

Best of luck!

[mies]

Kevin, do not listen to Billy's advice about sex talk and discussing religion and sexual preferences online. You can spoil your relationship with this woman irreparably if you follow Billy's advice.
This is my "Ukrainian woman's" opinion.


Billy, discussing sexual preferences online with a woman you never met usually makes sense only when you are using a paid service of a webcam girl, or if you met a female fan of cyber/virtual sex. If you do it with other women - they will most likely take it as you want to save money on paid service, and are "riding their ears" for free (the proverb in Russian, translated literally) to satisfy your own sexual needs. They will think you are either having fun online, or that you are a sex tourist.

[ML]

Kevin, do not listen to Billy's advice about sex talk and discussing religion and sexual preferences online. You can spoil your relationship with this woman irreparably if you follow Billy's advice.  This is my "Ukrainian woman's" opinion.

Billy, discussing sexual preferences online with a woman you never met usually makes sense only when you are using a paid service of a webcam girl, or if you met a female fan of cyber/virtual sex. If you do it with other women - they will most likely take it as you want to save money on paid service, and are "riding their ears" for free (the proverb in Russian, translated literally) to satisfy your own sexual needs. They will think you are either having fun online, or that you are a sex tourist.

From another recent thread: 

mies.  more correct way to translate Принуждать in this case, would be "domination."

On a slightly different note, what is wrong with the list of sexual preferences? Do you mind the preferences, or the fact that this woman states them openly?

- - - - -

Mies, are you in conflict here?  Or where would you draw the line?

[mies]

From another recent thread:  

There is no conflict between two of my posts. And I can explain why.
in the post with question - I am asking why Eduard singled out this specific profile. My post does not contain neither approval nor disapproval of the woman's actions and content of her profile. Since Eduard picked few more examples of profiles with oddities in the self-description part. Therefore I asked Eduard to elaborate whether he finds the sexual preferences odd, or the fact of stating them openly - odd.

In the second post, in this thread, I expressed opinion about virtual communication when two people start talking about meeting, and out of the blue - the guy starts discussing his sexual fantasies with a woman. If she does not respond to his advances immediately - she is announced frigid and the guy moves on. If she responds - he chats with her happily, maybe even adds to the list "My girlfriends."  

Imagine you are evaluating the potential of an athlete that you just met online and want to enroll to your professional team, based on the description of his swimming or cycling technique he is providing (the description) to you in the chat. If you like the description - you will sign him up for the next competition in 2 months. You are absolutely certain that ability to provide verbal description of achievements is a perfect indicator of these achievements.
So an athlete writes: "I move my hands this way..., and my legs that way...., and I also usually swim in the water/cycle on the bicycle, i like swimming/cycling very much, and I like swimming/cycling every day. I like both mountain bicycle and racing bicycle, and hybrid bicycle too (or on the contrary: only like the mountain bike but not the racing). You will be very happy with my achievements."

There is also an additional angle. Liking the sex talks on phone/chat can be a separate sexual preference. Maybe in case of Billy it is. I don't know. If one individual in a dialogue has this preference, and the other does not, and then without warning the former starts exercising his preference - namely talks about sex for the sake of talking, the other individual feels pretty much the same as feels the individual who is sexually violated without prior "invitation" and in an unconventional way. Then, some people also like to be raped. But many - don't. Unless Kevin has a specific taste for phone and virtual sex, I would not advise him to go into lengthy and detailed discussions before he meets this woman.

[Markus]

Kevin,

The 1st lady I flew to meet my lady in the FSU, she also wanted to make sure my lodgings didn't cost an arm and a leg. She chose the hotel; I went thru the process and that lady has been my
wife for 6 years. Her propensity to save me money translated to her shopping habits. She loves to shop and shop and sometimes comes home with a things under $10.
To me, just her (your lady) care to make sure you get the best deal is genuine.

Even with positive signs, a plan B, as I/O suggested, is wise. My plan B was to leave. I knew the flight times and knew I could take a taxi.

So, go for it. Be cool, be nervous at first, follow through with being a cool guy if the vibes are not there, don't show your approval too quick, where quick coming from me is faster
than most, and just have fun regardless of the vibes (from Dumb and Dumber).

[Markus]

Kevin,

I forgot to mention, in Russia New Years is the best holiday. If it's the same in Ukraine, which my wife couldn't confirm, that's a big plus.