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Author Topic: So what do you think? "Avi's story"  (Read 64439 times)

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Online Maxx2

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So what do you think? "Avi's story"
« on: December 21, 2010, 09:40:44 PM »

An Ukrainian ex-wife comes to the defense of her former husband.

[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2YMuyNjIYQ&feature=related[/youtube]

[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbmmg29Ojbc&feature=related[/youtube]

[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLcG53DYxI4&feature=related[/youtube]

Offline Steamer

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So what do you think? "Avi's story"
« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2010, 11:05:45 PM »
I feel sorry for the guy but he let this happen to himself. Love and lonliness can make you blind to what's happening to you until it's too late. He actually got off easy. This could have turned out much worse.
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Offline JR

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So what do you think? "Avi's story"
« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2010, 11:01:45 AM »
This should be mada a sticky thread
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Offline ML

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« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2010, 11:14:15 AM »
I got very sick watching the three clips.
Winston Churchill.  “The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.”

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So what do you think? "Avi's story"
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2010, 11:27:45 AM »
The guy dug a hole, jumped in headfirst and suffered the consequences. I agree with JR that this should be made a sticky and is good background knowledge about the importance of building a real relationship, using lawyers properly, protecting oneself and being aware od how the VAWA can be utilized by immigrant women.

Incidentally, I liked the woman's body language with the boyfriend and the way she looked while he was kissing her in front of that elevator. Any bets on how long that relationship will last?
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So what do you think? "Avi's story"
« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2010, 11:42:18 AM »
I agree this should be a sticky...

But of course, every guy always thinks his situation is always "different". 

The guy dug a hole, jumped in headfirst and suffered the consequences. I agree with JR that this should be made a sticky and is good background knowledge about the importance of building a real relationship, using lawyers properly, protecting oneself and being aware od how the VAWA can be utilized by immigrant women.

Incidentally, I liked the woman's body language with the boyfriend and the way she looked while he was kissing her in front of that elevator. Any bets on how long that relationship will last?
The duty of a true patriot is to protect his country from its government. -- Thomas Paine

Online Maxx2

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« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2010, 12:46:50 PM »
I know many details of this case. I filmed it.

Yes most guys look at why their situations are different and then convince themselves that they are in the clear. But really is that the best way to look at? Isn't there a saying that goes something like this,

"The average person learns from his mistakes. A wise person learns from the mistakes of others."

Of course it is important not to make oneself paranoid that all foreign women are this way.

Avi is an intelligent man. He is a highly educated electrical engineer. He spoke her language. He traveled to see her three times before bringing her over on a fiancee visa. Yet he was naive as many men are with long term former marriages. He couldn't imagine that while he was visiting her and applying for her visa that she was making arrangements over the internet to be with another man. I was told that she met with this man the second day after her arrival. It was in the boyfriends e-mails that his wife Zoya and her daughter discovered. After this is when Zoya confronted him as shown in the movie. Who could imagine such goings on were happening? Avi standing there at the airport with flowers waiting for his wife while she and her lover were coming back from a romantic holiday that he paid for. It wasn't until Avi contacted Zoya the wife of the boyfriend about what his wife and her husband were doing that she filled him in on the details that she knew about months earlier.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2010, 12:58:25 PM by Maxx2 »

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« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2010, 01:28:56 PM »
Ecocks
Quote
Incidentally, I liked the woman's body language with the boyfriend and the way she looked while he was kissing her in front of that elevator. Any bets on how long that relationship will last?

Avi didn't give it much of a chance although IMO they did seem like a good match somewhat like Bonny and Clyde.

About the body language. Upon close examination of the detective's footage it seems the boyfriend was feigning kissing her on the neck and was instead telling her they were being filmed. That is why she stiffened up and looked straight at the camera.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2010, 01:43:34 PM by Maxx2 »

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« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2010, 01:41:08 PM »
Now can someone tell me why the words of the first two speakers in the videos were simultaneously shown on the screen, while the words of the younger guy without any accent were not dubbed? Is their Russian accent so strong that Americans would not be able to understand what they were saying?

After that, do you really think that accent does not matter? :)

On a serious note, yes, this is an illustration of marriage fraud and false abuse filing in order to receive a green card independently from the husband's actions. Great filming job, Maxx2  8) You made it so good that the movies can almost be a manual on how to fabricate a false abuse case  ::) , with the laws even quoted on the screen.

My first thoughts when I started watching were, besides my initial paragraph, were that here we see a man who is fluent in Russian language and was brought up in Russian culture. Therefore, being fluent in Russian and familiar with the culture would hardly help in protecting against dishonest people like Yelena. All participants of the story are from the FSU, as it seems to be. It is not enough to know the language and to be able to communicate with the woman.

« Last Edit: December 22, 2010, 02:44:32 PM by Lily »
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« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2010, 02:07:24 PM »
Now can someone tell me why the words of the first two speakers in the videos were simultaneously shown on the screen, while the words of the younger guys without any accent were not dubbed? Is their accent so strong that Americans would not be able to understand what they were saying?

After that, do you really think that accent does not matter?
It does, though all the participants' English is very well understandable.
I guess, it depends on the author.

I didn't understand the detail with $250,000. How was he risking it?

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« Reply #10 on: December 22, 2010, 02:08:09 PM »
Now can someone tell me why the words of the first two speakers in the videos were simultaneously shown on the screen, while the words of the younger guys without any accent were not dubbed? Is their accent so strong that Americans would not be able to understand what they were saying?

After that, do you really think that accent does not matter?

I edited that film. I was my opinion that some people would have difficulty understanding Avi as Avi had a tendency to slur his words and drop his sentences. He tended to sputter. Avi's ex-wife's accent seemed less of a problem for people to understand from the people that have watched the film. Same for the Russian attorney. Zoya was very difficult to edit. Her command of English was very poor. Many of the things she was trying to say I could not find a clear way to edit into the film so I left them out. I put subtitles with her so that those with problems understanding accents (I don't) can follow what she said. Of course when Zoya had to resort to Russian because she could not express herself with English I added the translation.

The problem I found with this film is that many people have a difficult time following who is who. I believe this is because we have a tendency not to pay close attention at the start of a film. We wait until the story grabs us, if it does, to closely listen what is being said. I have found out it usually takes a second viewing to get the details. It is a fairly complicated story.

Avi was a real good sport. He was being treated for cancer with a chemo therapy pump attached to his body yet did not mind doing all the different shots.

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« Reply #11 on: December 22, 2010, 02:15:43 PM »
It does, though all the participants' English is very well understandable.
I guess, it depends on the author.

I didn't understand the detail with $250,000. How was he risking it?

I found it depends on the listener. Some people have trouble with understanding speech with accents. I was watching a film interview this morning of an American women. The interviewer was a Russian woman. I understood her questions quite well. The fellow I was watching it with had a difficult time understanding her though. She seemed clear to me. So it depends on the person. Who to subtitle and who to not is just a judgment thing.

The $250,000 was the amount she was suing him for. The lawsuit was on account of the abuse she claimed he did to her right before the police arrived. 

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« Reply #12 on: December 22, 2010, 02:19:53 PM »
Quote
The $250,000 was the amount she was suing him for. The lawsuit was on account of the abuse she claimed he did to her right before the police arrived.

Was it a joint account?

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« Reply #13 on: December 22, 2010, 02:32:49 PM »

Was it a joint account?

No, he had a retirement account that he had been contributing into over the years.

He had a pre-nuptial agreement that limited her to $1000 or $2000 a month (something like that) and the use of his apartment. She tried to get this overturned and get more money. But when the judge found out all that was going on he not only did not give her more money but he ended what money she was getting and told her she had to leave the apartment. She lost. That was when she sued him in another court about the supposed abuse. She wanted $250,000.

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« Reply #14 on: December 22, 2010, 02:45:27 PM »
No, he had a retirement account that he had been contributing into over the years.

He had a pre-nuptial agreement that limited her to $1000 or $2000 a month (something like that) and the use of his apartment. She tried to get this overturned and get more money. But when the judge found out all that was going on he not only did not give her more money but he ended what money she was getting and told her she had to leave the apartment. She lost. That was when she sued him in another court about the supposed abuse. She wanted $250,000.
Were they divorced at this time? Prenups only start working after the divorce is final, I guess.

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« Reply #15 on: December 22, 2010, 02:58:37 PM »
Avi's former wife also received my attention as a protective person. To me, she is a good example of a decent woman who is on her man's side, albeit a former one.

My understanding would be that years ago, they immigrated together with Avi. Would that be right? How come that he lost her?
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« Reply #16 on: December 22, 2010, 03:40:48 PM »
Lily -
I think in one of the video's it relays thier story.. that they both immigrated together many years ago, were married for many years,but simply grew apart after 20 or 30 yerars of marriage? Yet remain friends/family.


.

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« Reply #17 on: December 22, 2010, 05:25:58 PM »
AJ, yes, the video tells that they married in 1973, then came to the US and divorced in 2003. The dark haired young man who was speaking in the beginning may be their son.

My question was because of their common immigration history, where they were supposed, and apparently did that in the earlier stage of immigration, to support each other in the immigration. That's why I asked, how come that they parted while they had a chance to develop even stronger ties than if they would stay in the home country?
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« Reply #18 on: December 22, 2010, 06:48:33 PM »
She said they "fell apart", I guess it is "grew apart". Actually, they just don't say the truth. It can be anything, Lily.

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« Reply #19 on: December 22, 2010, 07:09:05 PM »
Avi's former wife also received my attention as a protective person. To me, she is a good example of a decent woman who is on her man's side, albeit a former one.

My understanding would be that years ago, they immigrated together with Avi. Would that be right? How come that he lost her?

Thank you Lily. Ilana, Avi's first wife has made a strong impression on many others. I usually hear "Wow! what a woman!" and "Avi's ex-wife really impressed me". She is usually described as noble. Judging from the expressions on some peoples faces I get the impression that Ilana has disturbed their stereotypes of what they think Russian women are like. In my discussions with them about about marriage fraud I tell them that it is wrong to think all Russian women are this way. That many make good wives. Anyway Ilana makes a good impression.

Avi, Ilana and their two sons Alex (shown) and Ron came to America in the late eighties as Jewish immigrants. Avi opened up a grocery store for Russian foods. It was at this store that he met Michael who was to become years later the lover of his second wife. So Avi had know Michael for years. It was just by a coincidence that Michael found Avi's fiancee on the internet the same time Avi was in contact with her. In the e-mail exchanges Michael had with Yelena that was read by Zoya he said to Yelena "I know this Avi. Why are you going to marry him?" Yelena's responce was "How else am I going to get to America with two kids?" to which Michael said "Avi should be easy to fool". I asked Zoya why this was so and she told me that Avi was very "maki" kind. That he was a honest man.

Ilana and Avi grew apart as AJ said. Avi was busy all the time running his store (which later failed right before Yelena came) and Ilana I believed worked at a hospital or clinic. There she met a doctor. The marriage broke up "peacefully" as Avi called it. They even shared the same attorney. Ilana married the doctor and continued to remain friends with Avi. They were still family. This was around 2003. It was in 2004 that Avi desperate from loneliness found the internet site that lead him to his future ex-wife Yelena.

Yelena according to Avi was a sure bet. As he said to his son "If there is anyone (and he met several others) that loves me it has to be Yelena!!" Lots of passion when they were together and when they were not she told him that she missed him and would cry on the phone. When Avi told her about his business problems and this might delay her coming she told him she would take on work cleaning toilets to help. It didn't matter to her as long as they were together. That she would live on the ends of the earth to be with him.

Yet with all of Avi's problems Yelana had a few of her own. Suddenly she had a problem with her oldest son being kept in Azerbaijan on account of the draft. It would take money to make this problem go away. Also she developed sudden dental problems with lots of pain. Avi sent money. I seen the receipts. Around $7000 I recall. Later after she got here she needed to go back to Azerbaijan to get her youngest son and do some more dental work. This is when she asked for more money.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2010, 07:21:14 PM by Maxx2 »

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« Reply #20 on: December 22, 2010, 07:56:43 PM »

Quote
Suddenly she had a problem with her oldest son being kept in Azerbaijan on account of the draft. It would take money to make this problem go away. Also she developed sudden dental problems with lots of pain. Avi sent money. I seen the receipts. Around $7000 I recall. Later after she got here she needed to go back to Azerbaijan to get her youngest son and do some more dental work. This is when she asked for more money.
Nothing wrong with it.

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« Reply #21 on: December 22, 2010, 08:12:05 PM »
Quote
judging from the expressions on some peoples faces I get the impression that Ilana has disturbed their stereotypes of what they think Russian women are like. 
What "some people" and what are these "stereotypes of what they think Russian women are like"?
Russian (BTW Ilana is not Russian))) woman are like what?

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« Reply #22 on: December 22, 2010, 08:28:39 PM »
Avi, Ilana and their two sons Alex (shown) and Ron came to America in the late eighties as Jewish immigrants....

Maxx-

Avi's first mistake was marry someone from Azerbaijan. Fun wedding ceremony that must have been...Azerbaijan is technically a Muslim nation. He's Jewish for chrissakes...

Also, Avi pointed at his forehead to describe the scratches on his ex-wife's neck and cheek...considering that alleged scratches were the reason why the police deemed she was telling the truth to cause for his arrest, one would think the location of the scratches will be heavily ingrained upon his memory, no?

Her attorney wanted to bargain for $1,000.00 plus a green card as leverage for a 'peaceful' divorce seem rather strange. At that point, IMHO, I would have paid the $1,000.00 and added monies to hire that silly attorney. They already filed the AOS, and very likely her conditional GC was well on the way. Removal of the condition do hinges on their marriage however things do happen that may be out of their control. That in itself, if given proper presentation may prove they did try to make the marriage work but just couldn't do it. Any good attorney certainly can make this case that such circmstances shouldn't be a cause of deportation. I know a couple who had this happen here in LA and they both hired an immigration attorney and was successful in helping her stay. To come out and say the marriage wasn't working out and be honest to DHS from the get-go (as opposed to staying married despite the fact just to earn the removal - which to me IS fraud) and try to find an amicable way to keep her status here was what they chose to do. They did, and took the chance and were both legitimately rewarded. There's no fraud in honestly giving a marriage a chance. Failing upon doing so doesn't make a marriage fraudulent.

Just saying....could it be that Avi was far too emotional to yield an ounce of sense, or, too controlling and lost sight of the fact that if he in fact wanted a 'peaceful' divorce, this was the very best opportunity for him to pursue? Was his definition of a 'peaceful' divorce was file the papers and deport the woman?
« Last Edit: December 22, 2010, 08:38:20 PM by GQBlues »
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« Reply #23 on: December 22, 2010, 08:31:09 PM »
Thanks for your clarifications Maxx2!

Albeit Ilana may be a good hearted and even noble woman, I would still call things by their names. In America, she left Avi for someone more attractive than her husband. :(  It happens to a number of immigrants who share a common language and culture. WM married to RW are also not protected from this loss when spouses from different cultures grow apart.

Is Michael, Zoya's husband and Yelena's lover, also Russian? I think he is. Only a Russian man would be able to leave an attractive, well groomed wife as Zoya is, for a person who is just younger than Zoya.

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« Reply #24 on: December 22, 2010, 08:36:42 PM »
Isn't there a saying that goes something like this.." The average person learns from his mistakes. A wise person learns from the mistakes of others."

Sayings are easy enough to say. Everyone makes mistakes. The foolish will repeat them.               
 

   
                         

 

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