What % of these women do you think will marry ANYONE to move to america

[Shostakovich]

This is interesting.

Generally, the R/U girl quest is an older man's game.  That's for three reasons:
1. They have the resources to see it through.
2. They are motivated, usually by the fact that they are not attracted to local women in their age group anymore.
3. Older (40s, 50s) guys will go for the "older" girls, i.e., girls ~30+.  There is too much competition for the good guys in the FSU for ladies who are 30+, and if they have a child or some other perceived downside then it's impossible for them to find an acceptable mate.  They open up the age limit and look abroad. 

But when a 21 y.o. considers this it tells me that there is some trouble on the home front.  It might be fun to go to the FSU and date a few girls and have some adventures - that's a great plan.  But if you are having trouble with girls locally then those troubles will eventually bubble up for you once you've got the FSU girl.  You can date out of your league in the FSU - girls always find foreigners alluring, but eventually the water finds it's own level and you'll loose her.  The US-FSU pairings are apt to be unstable.  So fix your life in the US, bring yourself up to snuff and when you date the women you desire in the US then go to the FSU and seriously date some more.  You will like what you see for certain.

And what others say about status symbols for FSU people is true.  Keep in mind that an iPhone costs $1000 in Ukraine.  I noticed all kinds of people looking me up when I brought mine out.  It is as much a token of wealth as an M3 is here.  Materialism means something different in the FSU.  First off, materialism is the Soviet religion and most have had the value of it drilled into them at some level or another.  Most people have not tasted the well-off life there yet the signs of it are all around.  But in the US it is more easy to be dismissive of the value of wealth: one sees all kinds of unhappy rich people.  And the "'t'is a gift to be simple" ethos is part of the American culture, though it often hides.

As for the percentage question - it's the wrong approach; finding a mate is about finding the one, marketing comes into it as an attraction strategy but you'll have to sift the field anywhere. 

[Doll]

3.  After adjusting to America and discovering the opportunities here, will they be contented with their married life? [The younger the woman, the more likely she will change].

Depends on what you mean by "discovering the opportunities".

[Aloe]

More relevant questions:  

1.  What percentage of RW considering foreign men will settle for a good man yet less than their dream man?
2.  What percentage are truly in love? Happy?  Committed?
3.  After adjusting to America and discovering the opportunities here, will they be contented with their married life? [The younger the woman, the more likely she will change].
4.  Do they have a long term plan that does not necessarily include you?

These are very good questions. Listen to the wise Gator
Many women marry a good guy, hoping to grow in love with him after their wedding. Many women stay married in spite of the love never really appearing, they are just fond of their husbands and like them a lot, but not in love with them. They just want a good man, who will treat them well and who will take care of them (and they take care of him too), and they even have children with him, because they know they can count on this guy and he will be a good father. They are happy to have such a good man, i think, even if they never do grow to love him.
When i first started looking for a foreign guy, the first guy i met seemed like a very good man, i was very tempted to just marry him, because it would be a shame to lose a good guy, those are pretty rare I decided against it eventually, cuz i didn't feel in love, but i can see why many women would go for it, especially those with a history of very bad relationships.

[Aloe]

And what others say about status symbols for FSU people is true.  Keep in mind that an iPhone costs $1000 in Ukraine.  I noticed all kinds of people looking me up when I brought mine out.  It is as much a token of wealth as an M3 is here. 

I don't know about Ukraine, but i can definitely say that an iPhone is not a symbol of wealth. First off, too many people have them, second, 99.99% of the people who got one spent their entire month's salary to get one. they aren't wealthy.

[neo]

Define status symbol?

Spending 1 months salary on a phone sounds like a status symbol to me.

If a professional westerner spent a months salary on a phone they would
probably have a 5000 USD+ Vertu which is very much a status symbol.

Almost every young RW/UW i know for the past 10 years has considered their
mobile as a status symbol and having "the right mobile" was as important
as having the right shoes/handbag.

Regarding the materialistic comment - obviously it depends on the girl but
consumerism novelty definatly hasn't worn off, not sure if its novy arbat
in Moscow but its now considered the most expensive shopping street in the world
- Gucci, Cartier et all charge 2x/3x the price they do in NYC/London and Russians
brag about how much they SPENT on something rather than how much they SAVED.

Case in point, friend in Ukraine recently bought a 2005 G55 AMG, bragged how it
had cost him 195,000 USD, I pointed out I had picked up a G55 in Arizona with
3K miles on the clock and saved 30K on list and only paid 99K USD.

"oh but you have a much cheaper car then".

despite it being 5 years newer than his, having all the options he still felt
superior for having spent 2x as much.

I don't think how "common" something is defines it being a status symbol,
as Mercedes are every 3rd car in many countries but still considered to be
status symbols - i Think the prestige of ownership is more the point, everyone
has a iphone but its still considered superior to say a nokia therefore by
design its a status symbol. (perhaps not so much as a diamond vertu but thats
another level again).

[HazyKnight]

These are very good questions. Listen to the wise Gator
Many women marry a good guy, hoping to grow in love with him after their wedding. Many women stay married in spite of the love never really appearing, they are just fond of their husbands and like them a lot, but not in love with them. They just want a good man, who will treat them well and who will take care of them (and they take care of him too), and they even have children with him, because they know they can count on this guy and he will be a good father. They are happy to have such a good man, i think, even if they never do grow to love him.
When i first started looking for a foreign guy, the first guy i met seemed like a very good man, i was very tempted to just marry him, because it would be a shame to lose a good guy, those are pretty rare I decided against it eventually, cuz i didn't feel in love, but i can see why many women would go for it, especially those with a history of very bad relationships.

I'm pretty sure this is what happened to me and the RW I met the first time. What was worse is that I think her Mother and Sister were putting pressure on her to marry me because I was a good man. But she just couldn't do it because she didn't love me. Thank God she decided on this, because I didn't know WHAT was going on! I still don't know, but I'm learning 

[Jumper]

giwaffe-

The greatest advantage and largest hurdle i see you have is time,

you are 21 young and have time to search.!!

however,
if your work takes you away two weeks per month,
I would not consider this venture.
That is an incredible hard thing to get past if bringing someone from another country here,
because initially the likelyhood is you are and should be the anchoring person. they have no friends or family here.. while some might be independent enough to get through , it isnt a good situation for a just begun relationship or marriage.  I'm sure it is possible ,but a cross cultural relationship in its infancy, with you being gone half the time , is going to be very very stressed.
  

In your case, i really  would  ,at least for now, stick to local RW (or yes lithuianian, latvian ,polish, eastern european if this is what appeals to you)
For now have a good time dating and see where it leads locally.. ??






a couple of notes i see touched on:

1.women are individuals ,, generalizations stink , but yes it is quite likely if you found someone who truly loved you fro mtha culture, that they would tend to s(mother) you more than you are accustomed too.
Up to you if this is viewed as annoying or welcomed...


2. it seems to me  a silly assumption to say if you treat her like a princess she wouldn't leave.
Decent men and women, in both countries leave each other daily for a million different reasons.
Come on folks! lol
 we are talking about  what would be  21 yo couples!!!!
 how many you know of , in any country, in any situation ,stay together even when things are  relatively good for both??
In this case we would be talking about a very young new immigrant in someone giwaffe   "might" be bringing here.
if she was not completely in love with him ,no amount of security or good treatment would keep her by his side.
the  relationship itself would,or it would not.

The - "if he only treats her well" mentality is akin to wishing for some type of guarantee.
There are none.

if he *only treated a young AW well*
 would not mean she wouldn't leave him ,it would depend solely on their relationship

While RW are different, those fundamentals do not change.
you need to establish a strong relationship, and acknowledge the risks involved,
and that there are no guarantees in human relationships..
other than they are unpredictable at best..

[tim 360]

What % of these women do you think just want to move to America and are just using any guy they can find as a way to get here and couldn't care less about them?

The % I am sure is quite small but can't put a % on it.  For many life is Russia or Ukraine is not as bad as it used to be and the USA is hardly the economic powerhouse it once was.  So why would many want to relocate here with just ANYONE.  To some Europe would be more preferable to relocate to since it is closer to home and friends and family.  The cachet of the USA just ain't what it used to be.    Good luck.

[JR]

The % I am sure is quite small but can't put a % on it.  For many life is Russia or Ukraine is not as bad as it used to be and the USA is hardly the economic powerhouse it once was.  So why would many want to relocate here with just ANYONE.  To some Europe would be more preferable to relocate to since it is closer to home and friends and family.  The cachet of the USA just ain't what it used to be.    Good luck.

I have more than one RW, long term Skype friends tell me that the "Green Card" effect is absolutely a part of the equasion, you won't get away from it PERIOD! It is something you must learn to deal with. Part of what woman looks for is economic stability/economic betterment when searching for a man. Sometimes "that" man is her goal and sometimes he's the stepping stone as in Avi's case.

[Doll]

Avi's case is an exception, it is not typical.

[TomT]

I don't know about Ukraine, but i can definitely say that an iPhone is not a symbol of wealth. First off, too many people have them, second, 99.99% of the people who got one spent their entire month's salary to get one. they aren't wealthy.

Yep, it never ceases to amaze me how people who don't own a car, a flat, have savings or any prospects for the future can rationize spending a month's (or more) salary for a piece of portable status that depreciates to worthlessness as soon as the next model is released. Not that the affliction is FSU-specific, mind you; there are millions of these duraks in the West.  

In any case, I can't envision very many girls marrying any loser unless she is extremely compromised herself. This gets around to another topic, though. The women who are most likely to seek out a foreign spouse are the ambitious, archetypal risk-takers. So are the girls who are always in the hunt for the bigger, better deal...

[GQBlues]

What % of these women will marry ANYONE just to get to America?

LOL. Loaded question.

If anyone was someone to begin with, they wouldn't be in places like Russia looking for wives, no? Think about that one for a while....

Besides...will any answer give you any semblance of comfort/caution at all?

Merry Christmas, Happy (C)Hannukah, WatUp Kwanzaa!

*********************************************

Aj is absolutely right when he said...

The greatest advantage and largest hurdle i see you have is time, you are 21 young and have time to search.!!

21. Youth! Sheeeshh, forget 'searching' for now. My biggest regret is I was in a generation that didn't catch the full gist of the present technology available for us today, so I started a bit late...with you OTOH, time and timing are perfect.

Get a world map. Plan a few places to go and people to see. Place a tack on a country to signify 'duking' a woman from that country. I don't mean paying prostitutes either, I mean dating, casual sex, etc...the mission is to have a tack in every country of the globe. The colors of each tack can signify some significance that matters only to you e.g.

Green tack, sex once; Blue, 2x, Yellow, 3x; Red, multiple times + her best friend or sister, etc...

When you get to the age, say, mid-late 30s, trust me, much of your Qs in life are answered automatically and you wouldn't have to rely on faceless individuals chiming on you what you should do with yours.

My map was heavily tacked though there are many glaring spots missing. Notably the African continent ( 2 tacks) / ME (obvious reason although I had a fling with one from Persia. She refuses to be called 'Iranian'. But no matter, I tacked Iran anyway despite the fact she was living in Sweden.). States in the US - complete, as most of SA & Western Europe. All of Asia...

Right now you are far closer to your beginning than you are to your end. Live it...

[tfcrew]

This percentage is quite big.

I agree but isn't there a current thread running already on this?
Umteen others in the archives?

[Blues Fairy]

Yep, it never ceases to amaze me how people who don't own a car, a flat, have savings or any prospects for the future can rationize spending a month's (or more) salary for a piece of portable status

You speak as someone who has never experienced the realization that no matter how hard you work, you can never earn enough to get an apartment, or a car.  The hopelessness I'm describing is hard to understand unless you live in such an environment.  Say, a single girl in Moscow who rents an apartment and realizes she can never own one, so she buys a $500 pair of shoes.  Why not pamper yourself with something you CAN afford, for a change. 

[tfcrew]

If anyone was someone to begin with, they wouldn't be in places like Russia looking for wives, no? Think about that one for a while....

I did and I still don't know what the hell that statement is supposed to mean.

 
 
 

[TomT]

You speak as someone who has never experienced the realization that no matter how hard you work, you can never earn enough to get an apartment, or a car.  The hopelessness I'm describing is hard to understand unless you live in such an environment.  Say, a single girl in Moscow who rents an apartment and realizes she can never own one, so she buys a $500 pair of shoes.  Why not pamper yourself with something you CAN afford, for a change. 

You make a reasonable argument but I never wrote anything about shoes.

[Aloe]

Yep, it never ceases to amaze me how people who don't own a car, a flat, have savings or any prospects for the future can rationize spending a month's (or more) salary for a piece of portable status that depreciates to worthlessness as soon as the next model is released. Not that the affliction is FSU-specific, mind you; there are millions of these duraks in the West.  

In any case, I can't envision very many girls marrying any loser unless she is extremely compromised herself. This gets around to another topic, though. The women who are most likely to seek out a foreign spouse are the ambitious, archetypal risk-takers. So are the girls who are always in the hunt for the bigger, better deal...

I think we've been over this already. FSU has no culture of saving, because at least several financial crises occured in every FSU persons lifetime. And that taught them that all your money may become worthless tomorrow, so spend it all today.

[Aloe]

You speak as someone who has never experienced the realization that no matter how hard you work, you can never earn enough to get an apartment, or a car.  The hopelessness I'm describing is hard to understand unless you live in such an environment.  Say, a single girl in Moscow who rents an apartment and realizes she can never own one, so she buys a $500 pair of shoes.  Why not pamper yourself with something you CAN afford, for a change.  

A single girl in Moscow may have chances if she finds a partner. I've looked at starting programmer's salary in Moscow, it is 55 thousand roubles, that is the same money as a starting programmer gets in Belgium, but in Belgium you pay a lot higher taxes, in Moscow only 13%. So, say her partner is a programmer, and she is a secretary (20 to 30k roubles), that is already 75-85k roubles a month. Minus rent 30k, they have 45-55k roubles leftover every month. Minus food they have 25k-35k, so if they save plus-minus 800 bucks every month,  they will have 10k saved every year, that's 100k in 10 years, then they can take a loan in the bank and buy their own place.
I just looked up programmer job ads again, 30 to 100k roubles variants, many ads say like 50 to 70, so the ads with 30 are the minority. Vacancy with 1 year experience required offers 65-75k, 3 yrs experience 70-80, etc.
The single girl in Moscow can also be a programmer, altho i suspect she will have greater difficulty finding a job as a programmer than a man would, because of prejudice against women's logical/technical abilities (one of the ads i quoted above outright states that they are hiring a man, not a woman, but maybe other companies would hire her).
So the single girl may very well afford her own place(on a loan) in 10-20 years, given that she saves a big part of her money.
But like i said, there is no culture of saving in Russia. 10 years ago this salary was unthinkable.

[possum]

Yep, it never ceases to amaze me how people who don't own a car, a flat, have savings or any prospects for the future can rationize spending a month's (or more) salary for a piece of portable status that depreciates to worthlessness as soon as the next model is released. Not that the affliction is FSU-specific, mind you; there are millions of these duraks in the West.

Saving money in the FSU is the epitome of durakness.. Like Aloe said, Russians prefer to spend their hard earned money while it still has some buying power. An Iphone will last a person a good 2-3 years, possibly longer, while a $1000 investment will become more like $700 over the same period of time with the current rate of inflation.. Not to mention, most of these popular gizmos have good resale value in the FSU.. A car loses 25% of it's value as soon as it leaves the dealership..NOT!

[possum]

So, say her partner is a programmer, and she is a secretary (20 to 30k roubles), that is already 75-85k roubles a month. Minus rent 30k, they have 45-55k roubles leftover every month. Minus food they have 25k-35k, so if they save plus-minus 800 bucks every month,  they will have 10k saved every year, that's 100k in 10 years, then they can take a loan in the bank and buy their own place.

Minus clothes, hygiene products, transportation costs, etc, etc. They'll be lucky if they can put aside 5,000 rubles every other month..

[Gylden]

I think there is a BIG difference in regard to personal economy between the last three generations in the FSU.

The older people, say 60's and up are for the most quite frugal. (for example my wife's parents are living on pensions and still manage to save)

Their children, say 40's maybe 35ish to 60's have for the most inherited or gotten apartments given to them in the beginning of their working lives.

The youngest generation is caught in a bad situation, because the housing prices have addopted a more western place in society (investment speculation) and as the government is not handing out apartments anymore, will make it VERY difficult for the young who will not inherit an apartment.

[possum]

I think there is a BIG difference in regard to personal economy between the last three generations in the FSU.

The older people, say 60's and up are for the most quite frugal. (for example my wife's parents are living on pensions and still manage to save)

Their children, say 40's maybe 35ish to 60's have for the most inherited or gotten apartments given to them in the beginning of their working lives.

The youngest generation is caught in a bad situation, because the housing prices have addopted a more western place in society (investment speculation) and as the government is not handing out apartments anymore, will make it VERY difficult for the young who will not inherit an apartment.

Very insightful post, Gylden.. I predict in a few years the young will start offing their parents for a chance to have a place of their own..

[chivo]

I have met quite a few young women with their own apartment (25-40), or one that was given to them by parents who each had their own with the son/daughter getting the worse of the two after marriage. I also know of many who's parents will help them get an apartment once they marry and settle down by giving them the money they need.

To answer the question of women marrying to move to America. Well, for whatever reason the number is extremely small even if it's for love, now factor in moving for less than noble reasons and you have something almost negligible as far as percentages go.

Here's an article recently posted about the rise in scams though. Seems kind of dated as most here have known about this for years. Maybe the rest of the world is just catching up .

 http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/interpol-warns-of-rise-in-marriage-scams/427650.html

[Blues Fairy]

A single girl in Moscow may have chances if she finds a partner.
So the single girl may very well afford her own place(on a loan) in 10-20 years

A single girl with a partner is no longer single, by definition, and a single girl in 20 years is no longer a girl.

When I was a well-paid single professional in Moscow, I researched the issue of real estate purchasing through and through and came to a conclusion that even with my salary, it was unfeasible, given the current interest rates and required down payments.  So I opted for the shoes.  And saved the rest, yes.

[TomT]

I think we've been over this already. FSU has no culture of saving, because at least several financial crises occured in every FSU persons lifetime. And that taught them that all your money may become worthless tomorrow, so spend it all today.

Yes, I am aware of the currency devaluations (and the tendency for bank officials to steal their depositor's funds). I wasn't referring to a phobia about cash positions, though. I was alluding to people who buy the trappings of wealth (portable status) that are way beyond their means, often sacrificing necessities (food, medical and dental care) to do so.