Anti-USA propaganda ? Or just plain sick...

[Shadow]

The US show of Dr Phil made the Russian news today.

It showed a part of a show called "mommy's confessions" where a person who adopted a Russian boy made him drink hot sauce and put him under a freezing shower as punishment.

Perhaps if anyone saw the show they can tell if there were actions taken agiainst this woman... to do such a thing to a child is plain sick, regardless of the child being own or adopted.

As you may know there are negotiations to tighten the adoption requirements for U.S. citizens, and this is certainly building the case, whuch may be exactly the goal of showing it in the Russian news.

If any of you guys think this is a fitting punishment for any child, I have some suggestions,,,,

[Boethius]

http://www.babylovechild.org/2010/04/15/russian-adoptees-an-adoption-blogger-day-ah-how-special/

[GQBlues]

The US show of Dr Phil made the Russian news today.

The woman is just plain sick, Shadow. She's clinical. Shame.

Unfortunately, there are mothers like that here and/or anywhere. I hate to say it but this is no different than wife abusers and women beaters and very likely if legislations that would heavily restrict or regulate child adoption like IMBRA do to international marriage industry, guess what....people are going to cry about their rights of choice being taken away...

There are far more decent people involved in the MOB just as they do in international adoption, but it is the very few that put a damper into all of these...

Here's a point Dr Phil's wife made to this woman.

[erudite]

The so called "DR" Phil is just like Okra, I mean Oprah.  He has no real talent other than to schedule everything around something that is emotional.  The more "emotional" the program the better for them for ratings, money, power, success. Women being emotional creatures they naturally throng to have these strings plucked on their hearts and emotions.  Great success without any real contribution to the well being of mankind, only emotional heart string playing.  

Dr. Phil is a great bull sh*t artist and fertilizer salesman.  His credentials here in Texas had been revoked long before he ever went on Okra's show. He is a fraud and sham but seems to fool enough of the American public (easily done as always) to make a fortune.  I know this for a fact and actually know people who were his neighbors BEFORE he went on Okra's show.  Pompous, arrogant and full of himself as were his wife and kids.

His kind always resorts to journalism that is sensational for success.  

I feel sorry for the little boy, but this will only be used by the anti-US people in the FSU as a "common occurrence".   The same and worse happens to native born children daily at the hands of sick people.

[Boethius]

The emotional aspect means people will watch, and perhaps they will learn and take action. There have been numerous FSU children abused or murdered by their adoptive families.  Yes, thousands have great families, but there is less oversight in a foreign adoption than there is in adopting a pet.  That's the issue he is trying to address.

[Blues Fairy]

The emotional aspect means people will watch, and perhaps they will learn and take action.  There have been numerous FSU children abused or murdered by their adoptive families.  Yes, thousands have great families, but there is less oversight in a foreign adoption than there is in adopting a pet.  That's the issue he is trying to address.

Of course these stories are just sick, and of course there should be oversight.  However, the emotional response such publicity elicits among the simpler TV-watching public is: "Damn the Americans, keep them away from the Russian children!!" - precisely what the current regime wishes.  No surprise successful US adoptions don't make big news in Russia.  No surprise the stories of child abuse at the hands of the Russian adoptive parents don't make big news, either.

[Boethius]

It's apples and oranges.  There is more oversight for the adoption of American born children than there is of foreign borns.  So, individuals who would be rejected for the adoption of an American born child can adopt a foreign child.  And that is something governments in all FSU countries, as well as U.S. states, need to address.

[ECOCKS]

Yawn......No cure (or defense) from "crazy".

There are bad parents everywhere, France, US, Britain, Ukraine, Belgium, Russia, India, Pakistan, Canada, yada, yada, yada.

You find them, intervene and protect the innocent while containing or cleaning up the damage done by the individual.

[wicheese]

Since I know two couples who are in the middle of Russian adoptions, it's a shame that nutters like the lady mentioned are used as examples to influence opinion as they are good families.  Also, knowing a little about the conditions of the orphanages (from Russians who had worked with them) and the incidence of Fetal Alcohol Syndrome in the children, I would not enter into a Russian adoption lightly as there is a pretty good chance the kids might have problems.

A good movie to watch about life in an orphanage, which is available on Netflix, is "The Italian".

[GoodOlBoy]

...made him drink hot sauce and put him under a freezing shower as punishment.

Sounds like some of my GoodOl'Days at Parris Island!

GOB

PS...Yeah, she's sick all right.

[viking]

Some one needs to REALLY get into this womans face and BRUTALLY tell her what an abusive person she is. And make her get a taste of her own medicine. I wonder if she has any other kids? Where is her husband? whats his story?

[Shadow]

Of course these stories are just sick, and of course there should be oversight.  However, the emotional response such publicity elicits among the simpler TV-watching public is: "Damn the Americans, keep them away from the Russian children!!" - precisely what the current regime wishes.  No surprise successful US adoptions don't make big news in Russia.  No surprise the stories of child abuse at the hands of the Russian adoptive parents don't make big news, either.

A successful adoption  *should* not make the news, as there is no reason to allow adoption if the parents are not going to treat the children well. 
An adopted child already has had enough trouble in their lives not to be given to people who seem more interested in having a pet/trophy as in caring.

[Nat]

Well, of course such news do influence opinion of people about the USA in general, but I guess their point is that it's extremely difficult to adopt a child in the USA, and extremely easy to do that in Russia. So while there's a very well organised screening process in the USA, which allows to choose almost ideal family for an adopted child and then monitor this child, in Russia screening is absent as is, especially given corruption, so anybody can adopt a child and then nobody monitors their future life and the conditions of life they have in the USA.
So what TV actually claims is that until there's some agreement between Russian and US governments, which ensures at least monitoring of a child in a new family, adoption must be prohibited.

[possum]

Well, of course such news do influence opinion of people about the USA in general, but I guess their point is that it's extremely difficult to adopt a child in the USA, and extremely easy to do that in Russia. So while there's a very well organised screening process in the USA, which allows to choose almost ideal family for an adopted child and then monitor this child, in Russia screening is absent as is, especially given corruption, so anybody can adopt a child and then nobody monitors their future life and the conditions of life they have in the USA.
So what TV actually claims is that until there's some agreement between Russian and US governments, which ensures at least monitoring of a child in a new family, adoption must be prohibited.

I have been reading Russian adoption blogs, and I can tell you that the process is anything but easy.. The amount of paperwork that a prospective adoptive couple or parent has to gather is enormous- think a 5 inch tall stack of paper.. That's everything from the FBI clearance to homestudy reports to God knows what else.. Too many to remember.. In addition to that, there are multiple trips to Russia that every couple has to make.. One trip to register at the Ministry of Education and formally accept a referral.. At least one more trip for the court hearing, after which there is a 10-day waiting period, should adoption be granted. There are post-placement studies done at various intervals after the adoption is finalized, and this, according to some, is where the system fails.. The argument is being made that there's not enough supervision by US authorities, and the same holds true for all international adoptions: Chinese, Ethiopian, etc..

[possum]

Since I know two couples who are in the middle of Russian adoptions, it's a shame that nutters like the lady mentioned are used as examples to influence opinion as they are good families.  Also, knowing a little about the conditions of the orphanages (from Russians who had worked with them) and the incidence of Fetal Alcohol Syndrome in the children, I would not enter into a Russian adoption lightly as there is a pretty good chance the kids might have problems.

A good movie to watch about life in an orphanage, which is available on Netflix, is "The Italian".

Most American couples are looking to adopt in the 12-18 month range.. Those infants are still in "baby homes", which are not to be confused with orphanages where older children live.. Baby homes are generally in better shape than most orphanages, although you'd be hard pressed to find an orphanage where any considerable number of international adoptions takes place that would be truly awful.. Those orphanages enjoy a steady stream of donations both from foreign adoptive parents and local sponsors/donors.. If you look at the stats for international adoptions in Russia, you'll see that most foreign adoptions happen in all the same regions year in, year out, while most regions have a pretty low adoption rate by foreign parents, something like 0-2 per year.. It's a pretty safe bet that most adoptive parents end up at the same baby homes/orphanages. Now, I have yet to determine the reason for that as there haven't been any outright allegations of corruption.. It probably has to do with the court process. Incidentally, Ethiopian orphanages have seen a lot of improvements recently as well..

True, FAS is not always easy detect, but couples manage by getting a second opinion from a child physician they know back in their home country.. Medical information is sometimes confusing and incomplete, but that's hardly the fault of the orphanage officials, and they do try their best to explain the child's condition to the couple.. Most "cover-ups" occur at the MOE level, and AFAIK they're obligated by law to provide another referral if there's a problem with the original one.

[BC]

Digging deeply I believe one will find that the roots of the problem may lie in the quest for 'instant gratification'..

The wait time for American adoption is approximately 1 to 18 months. Now compare this with the wait time for China, which is 10-12 months, and Russia has a wait time of 6 to 12 months. So, there no much difference in the wait time.

http://www.newbiemommy.com/adoption/Child-Adoption-National-Vs-International.html

I am fairly sure there are some differences between domestic and international adoptions..

Probably some if not many of the same reasons AM search RW instead of going local.

Folks simply looking for an easier, softer way in an emotionally charged topic.

[mrs.Shadow]

It is the different thing.
Yes, there are everywhere mothers who treat their children bad. Yes the adoptive mother is worse then native, because she has no experience with children and taking them just like some pet to the house, thinking that she can just feed him and play with him, and when she does not want, he will just sleep somewhere on the cat's tree.

I personally was shocked that instead of involving the police and immediately removing this poor children (there are brothers as I understood) from that house Americans are making a show "look how we can treat Russian children!" I am not talking that all Americans think the same as she, but they do allow such shows, making money from TV projects on the blood of children.

Of cos the nationality here plays some part.

Yes you can take child from Russia easier then adopt him in USA (this is why I think that propaganda is exactly against adoption of Russian children: simply make scandals and show to Russians how Americans treat them bad, Russia is closing the possibility for Americans to adopt Russian children, Americans have to find other country for check or adopt own American children), but while its easy to adopt why do not check such families more careful?

I mean, if USA service would find out that this woman is mentally ill, why did they keep silence when she adopted a Russian children? Why did not they check her before allowing adoption in HER own country, not in Russia, and why not to keep monitoring this families?

I saw this part of show on Russian channel, yes, I am out of any possibilities to think easy and quiet. I am shocked, I am destructed. I saw it yesterday and I could not refuse crying. While feeding my child, my tears were running from my eyes.
The first my reaction was - Remove from her children immediately!

Instead of it Americans watch such shows and do not ask themselves why instead of prison, this woman sits in their monitors.
It is like put the killer, show the movie he recorded of killing, and lets all listen to him, making show for people.

There are many cases, its not the one, there are cases when adoptive parents kill Russian children. You will say - its everywhere.

No, it is not.
Russian women do not adopt American children and do not torture them and do not kill. That is why no any American will understand why Russians are THAT negative.
No any aggression is excused but aggression within confrontation between two countries make it double.

And I personally have opinion that Russia should block adoption for Americans. Not because they are bad, but because their adoption service does not care when American families adopt Russian children, as if children from Russia are much more lower in intellect and rights on a happy childhood.

Ps: And yes I am sorry for my straight words, but I am writing what I feel. I feel myself really bad.

[wicheese]

And I personally have opinion that Russia should block adoption for Americans. Not because they are bad, but because their adoption service does not care when American families adopt Russian children, as if children from Russia are much more lower in intellect and rights on a happy childhood.

Ps: And yes I am sorry for my straight words, but I am writing what I feel. I feel myself really bad.

It's easy to jump to conclusions, but before you ban all American adoptions one should take a much closer look at your own country and society and wonder why so many children end up in orphanages (why are Russian families not adopting them?) and then look closely at the conditions of these orphanages and maybe the homes they came from (BTW, you would be hard pressed to find an orphanage in America).  A former RW girlfriend who has worked with them has called it "scandalous", but then it's always easier to point a finger at others.

Now why do Americans want to adopt Russian children, well for the most part they do not as their  preference to adopt in our own country just like the VAST majority of men don't look for wives in Russia (I myself would advise against adopting in Russia as I hear too many stories about the children being damaged, due to the enviornment they come from).  The problem is, it's usually white families that are doing the adopting who want a white child and there is far more demand from GOOD families then white children available here in the USA (if you are an older white couple then it becomes extremely difficult).  Also, as possum correct wrote, it's not easy to adopt in Russia as the two families I know (co-workers) have gone through a full evaluation of tests and I would bet that it's much less likely that a Russian child adopted by an American would end up in an abusive home compared to the same Russian child if adopted by a Russian family, but it would not serve the Kremlin's goals to publish such statistics.  So go ahead and call for the end of American adoptions, but remember it's the children who will ultimately pay the price. 

[Blues Fairy]

And I personally have opinion that Russia should block adoption for Americans. Not because they are bad, but because their adoption service does not care when American families adopt Russian children
Ps: And yes I am sorry for my straight words, but I am writing what I feel.

This kind of emotional response is exactly what such TV stories are aiming to produce.  Forget the thousands of happy kids who found new families in the US; forget the tens of thousands of abused kids in Russian families.

[dbneeley]

It's easy to jump to conclusions, but before you ban all American adoptions one should take a much closer look at your own country and society and wonder why so many children end up in orphanages (why are Russian families not adopting them?) and then look closely at the conditions of these orphanages and maybe the homes they came from (BTW, you would be hard pressed to find an orphanage in America). 

I agree with most of what you have written, but there are indeed orphanages in America--although there is a much bigger preference for foster families than institutions. In every country, the older kids who are orphaned are far more difficult to place than the infants.

One reason for more orphanages in the FSU, too, is the higher incidence of early death, especially among men, coupled with the far lower average incomes. It is often extremely difficult for widows to support themselves and their children here, leading to many more kids winding up in them.

You are correct, too, that conditions in many of the orphanages are very poor--often in large measure because of the extremely limited funds available for them.

Once you understand how poorly medical professionals are paid here, for example, it is easy to understand how much worse most orphanage workers are paid and how little funds are available even for basics like food and utilities. The cases I have seen often have orphanage workers doing what they can with what they have--which is far too little.

It would indeed be a shame for the children if adoptions by foreigners were made more difficult or cut out entirely. Often, that is the only real chance some of these kids have in life.

David

[JR]

Russian women do not adopt American children and do not torture them and do not kill. That is why no any American will understand why Russians are THAT negative.

You are responding emotionally and irrationally. You are taking one sensationalized story and applying it to every situation. What about the "donor" nations responsibility to ensure the adoptive parents fitness to care for it's child citizen? What stopped Russia from protecting this child from the mother by an intense psychological review prior to allowing the adoption? Or from instituting many other safe-guards for the adopted child?  
Russians don't adopt American children because....who cares? If they did there would scandals galore, Americans can't spank their children and not be prosecuted for abuse. Is it this way in Russia? I think not...The vast majority of children adopted by American families are far better off then they would had they stayed in their previous situations, but that doesn't make good drama and drama sells. You are buying into the sensationalism.

Mother kills her children and infants develop Moscow : Russia | Sep 16, 2010 By ahmed ibrahem ibrahem Buray  1
0 Views: 126
 
their dismembered bodies on the balcony

According to agency "Interfax" quoted by Russian police spokesman said that a woman at the age of 37 years

And stay in the city of Dnipropetrovsk in eastern Ukraine has killed four children shortly after birth

And then left their dismembered bodies in the balcony.

Police said the mother killed her children four infants during the period from 1994 to 2010,

And that all births took place in the home and shortly after birth the mother to kill all births,

The police source said that the living conditions of the mother is difficult.

It is reported that the lady was dispose of the bodies by placing them in garbage bags

And leave the bags in metal buckets on the balcony of her apartment which is located in the upper floors.
ahmed ibrahem ibrahem Buray is based in Cairo, Kairo, Egypt, and is Reporter for Allvoices

Or another American scandal:
The first nine years in the life of John Lahutsky could be described as a nightmare after being placed in a state-run orphanage in Russia. His savior turned out to be a Mahanoy City native who adopted him and most likely saved his life.
Lahutsky, 20, told his story recently at a gathering hosted by the Mahanoy Area Historical Society at the Sen. James J. Rhoades Downtown Center. More than 50 people came to hear the story of a nightmare turned into a dream.
The story also is told in the book, "The Boy from Baby House 10," which is co-authored by Lahutsky and Alan Philps, a British journalist. Philps and his wife, Sarah, were also instrumental in helping Lahutsky, then named Vanya, while in the orphanage system and to eventually come to
America.
Born in Moscow in 1990, Lahutsky was a "preemie," weighing 2 pounds and measuring 12 inches long. He considers it a miracle that he survived, given the level of medical technology at the time.
Weber teaches at Freedom High School in the Bethlehem Area School District, where Lahutsky will be a senior this year. Weber spoke of his first meeting with him, having him in classes for the past four years, and learning there was a book in the works.
The presentation opened with a news piece from a local television station, followed by Lahutsky's talk, which was accompanied by a slide show of photos.
"I was born at 24 weeks with cerebral palsy," Lahutsky said. "Imagine a 2-pound baby trying to survive in 1990 in a Russian hospital. It is incredible that I made it."
When he was 18 months old, his birth parents abandoned him and his 6-year-old sister, Olga.
"We were stuck in an apartment for three days. It was not until my sister climbed up to the window and a neighbor noticed that we were alone and called the authorities," Lahutsky said.
When the authorities arrived, he was sent to a baby house, while his sister was taken to an orphanage. Later in his talk, Lahutsky said even though he has never seen his sister since the separation, he has found her, noting that she is 25 and has two children. He hopes to travel to Russia at some point to visit Olga and her family.
"During the years I was at the baby house, I spent my days either sitting in a chair or laying on a cot," Lahutsky said. "I was placed in a group called Section 2. I basically had no one to talk to. No one spoke to you. Along the way, I taught a friend of mine how to speak."
Weber said Section 2 was on the second floor.
"The blinds were closed and the shades were down," he said. "There would be 40 children tethered to their cribs and only one person taking care of them."
That person, Lahutsky added, worked a 24-hour shift.
"John has this knack of recruiting people into his life," Weber said. "That is how he survived over there. John sets friends up and they truly are his friends."
Lahutsky spoke of his encounters with the Philpses and a young Russian woman named Vika, all who did their best in trying to rescue him from the system that placed him into an adult insane asylum when he turned 6. The children, particularly those who had incurable medical conditions, were placed in those rooms with shaded windows and no communication with the caretakers.
"I didn't know what the sun was. I didn't know what a tree was," Lahutsky said. "All day long I was just sitting in a closed room, and that's all the staff expected you to do every day."
He showed photos of emaciated children that were taken in secret and smuggled out. He asked for guesses on their ages. Most guesses ranged from 4 to 5 years old, and there was an audible gasp when Lahutsky said they were around 14 or 15 years old.
"Part of what I learned from this is that nourishment to children is more than just food. It's the human touch," Weber said. "When these children are tied in these beds until their end, you're seeing the starvation of soul, spirit and body."
Weber noted that children with incurable medical conditions were usually placed in secluded areas, basically to die.
"When a child reaches the age of 5, an education commission comes in to decide where a child should go," Weber said. "They give him a test. John said they would ask questions like, 'What color of the streetlight lets you go?' Well, John had never been outside. What color is green? What color is the tree? What kind of tree is this? Although John was very verbal, and due to the fact that he had a physical handicap, he was then sent to an adult asylum. Those people that John became friends with saved him."
A handicapped child, Weber said, is "a stain on the family and the community. When his mother would try to get help at the hospital, they would say his place was in the institution. I've looked into some Russian communities and it's still the same."
Through a campaign organized by the Philpses, a notice appeared in the bulletin of St. Paul Antiochian Orthodox Church in Emmaus, the parish where Paula Lahutsky is a member, that there was a boy in Russia available for adoption. She adopted John at age 9˝ and he came to Bethlehem in 1999.
Lahutsky is an honor roll student. His favorite subject is history, and he enjoys giving presentations about his life and his book. He has told his story to students in small classroom groups, his experiences moving the students emotionally. He also has spoken to Kiwanis, the Salvation Army and church groups.
He is an active member of the Boy Scouts of America and its Order of the Arrow, is working for his Eagle badge and holds the rank of Life Scout. He is a big fan of the Philadelphia Eagles, Penn State Nittany Lions and New York Yankees, and enjoys golf. He plans to become a film director.

Yes, he would have been far better off staying there....

[ECOCKS]

As in so many situations, this could be run properly and deliver incredible benefits to the children and the parents. The orphans I met in Ukraine were usually healthy appearing and the facilities impressive relative to the general standards yet I couldn't help but think notice that there were so many orphanages and I never saw a handicapped child in any of them.

The good families are getting over there and doing the right thing at least some of the time. I remember sitting in the Maidan McD's one day and meeting a wonderful family which was adopting their second Ukrainian child, a 12 year old boy. Their previous adoption was a 6 year old girl who had grown to 9 when we met and they also had a 14 year old girl and 5 year old boy of their own. They had been in-country for six weeks doing their final paperwork, medical checkups and generally enjoying a Christmas vacation in Cherkassy and Kyiv. The father was a mortgage underwriter and the mother was a department manager for one of the department store chains in Arizona. The children, Ukrainian and American were all out-going and full of questions. The 12 year old was there and his new sister (the Ukrainian girl) was translating for him as we all chatted the afternoon away.

It's not all disaster and abuse. The screening should be tightened and post-adoption inspections are a good idea in ANY adoption situation. People everywhere do horrible things to kids (the guy in Austria who imprisoned his own daughter in the basement and had kids with her comes to mind as readily as the guy in California who kidnapped the girl and raped both her and the children they had together over a 17+ year period). Ending adoption, especially when a country cannot absorb them back into their own population, is a poor response compared to implementing proper screening procedures and focusing on finding good people to raise children to join society.

[GQBlues]

Most "cover-ups" occur at the MOE level, and AFAIK they're obligated by law to provide another referral if there's a problem with the original one.

  Is that Method of Evaluation, possum? I'm not sure what you meant with the last sentence. Who is required by 'law' and which side of the adoption's process, the US or Russia's?

I spoke with my wife about this yesterday and she seemed detached of the issue. She very slowly said that she isn't surprised it showed in Russia and very likely a subject hand-picked by affiliates to promote situations from both sides.

So I asked her to try not politicize this for now and tried to get her opinion on the video. Quickly she said, of course it's sad. These things are not easy to watch. Besides, if the lady was out of means how to properly handle the child in her own capacity (that's the crux on how she got to the hot sauce/cold shower treatment), she said she's aware there are hundreds, if not thousands, of professional centers in the US that likely would've been helpful in properly addressing  such matters. There are sad cases of children not getting the proper parental care and discipline anywhere. Every country have this problem, but they're not worth anything to Russian news and media. It's better if it's from the USA. It doesn't mean anything if it's from Turkey, Brazil, or even Canada. It needs to be from the USA. No drama if the child was in Germany. The majority of Russians will miss that this is 'made for TV' type shows and skip the real problems of these situations, huge orphanages...

She said they should spend more time exploring the problem why there are so many Russian children available for adoption in the first place, including and especially the government, instead of spending the time and money showing sensationalized shows in the same fold as Jerry Springer.

So there....Miss Siberia has spoken.  

[possum]

Is that Method of Evaluation, possum? I'm not sure what you meant with the last sentence. Who is required by 'law' and which side of the adoption's process, the US or Russia's?

No, MOE stands for Ministry of Education.. They provide all the referrals to adoption agencies.. It's the agencies' responsibly to keep coming up with referrals until the "customer" is satisfied, but they must go through the MOE.. The MOE is in turn responsible for the placement of orphans from the national database and is therefore obligated to provide a referral at the request of prospective adopting parents, or in the case of international adoptions, their representatives, i.e. accredited adoption agencies.. Hope this is clear enough..

[ECOCKS]

Maybe in Russia, but in Ukraine (at least 2 years ago), the church agencies were initiating matching kids and parents then fronting it over to the Ministry for review and approval.