First Meeting

[Saltheart]

I/O - dude, I can appreciate where you are coming from, truly, I can.  It's probably sound, sage advice - I'm just of the opinion in this case that much of it doesn't apply.  I wish I could share why, but I don't feel it's appropriate to do so, so I won't.  I didn't really come on the forums to discuss the intimate or personal details of my pursuit, or to get advice on how to conduct my affairs (in regards to how much to trust, or not trust, to be overly cautious, etc.)  with someone I think I could come to care about very much...I think I am more than capable of being the judge in that matter and willingly suffering any consequences if I turn out to be wrong.  That's my problem and I'm a big boy.  I'm not trying to be smart-assy, or know-it-all, but conversely, the judgment/opinions expressed are sometimes not very nuanced or balanced so it's hard to take some of them seriously.  As always, appreciate the viewpoint, ..don't always agree, but I appreciate it nonetheless.

-Salty

[Ade]

I/O - dude, I can appreciate where you are coming from, truly, I can.  It's probably sound, sage advice - I'm just of the opinion in this case that much of it doesn't apply.  I wish I could share why, but I don't feel it's appropriate to do so, so I won't.  I didn't really come on the forums to discuss the intimate or personal details of my pursuit, or to get advice on how to conduct my affairs (in regards to how much to trust, or not trust, to be overly cautious, etc.)  with someone I think I could come to care about very much...I think I am more than capable of being the judge in that matter and willingly suffering any consequences if I turn out to be wrong.  That's my problem and I'm a big boy.  I'm not trying to be smart-assy, or know-it-all, but conversely, the judgment/opinions expressed are sometimes not very nuanced or balanced so it's hard to take some of them seriously.  As always, appreciate the viewpoint, ..don't always agree, but I appreciate it nonetheless.

-Salty

A very good response IMO. It can be sometimes too easy for people on these types of forums to read far too much into far too little. I dare say that the majority of us that are very happily married can point to at least one thing that could have been interpreted as a serious "red flag" by the more paranoid of people when not viewed in the full context of the newly forming relationship; a context I might add, that only the participating persons are truly privy to. Of course, there are occasions when they are right and they are usually quick with the "I told you so" but even a broken clock is right twice a day.

And, FWIW, anyone needing the relationship advice doled out by the average member here is probably better off staying at home anyway if you ask me. This forum and ones like it are far better at giving advice on the practical aspects of international dating, including travel arrangements, visa issues and cultural differences. IMO of course.

Your attitude seems to be very level headed to me. You're not going into this blind and you fully accept that if everything goes south you'll have (acceptable) losses. Like you, I'm the type of guy that doesn't think life is worth living if you have to doubt everything first. Best to assume the best until proven otherwise while accepting the reasonable losses if things go wrong as a result; with the qualification that you never bet your life or something you can't afford to lose of course. It leads to a much happier state of mind and much more enjoyable relationships too.

[Sia]

again will write my Blondie opinion.
everything depends on what level of your communication with this lady. If you are passionate stage of love, for your Darling will be important to just spend time with you in everyday in usual situation..I think if she really really love you it is not important to have  tour of the country or have fun in nights party. For her will be much more pleasant and useful to spend time with you in your house, look at how you live, to see if she could live as you used to. In turn, you can also look at it in the usual life tempe.Maybe she could not fit into your understanding of family relation.Just imagine this woman you will see every day and every night .... therefore correct to hold time if you're a real family. Just think how great it is to wake up alone in the morning, cook breakfast together, laugh, talk about everything or just keep silent in the divine silence, because you are so comfortable with each other, then you walk through the streets holding hands.In the everning you pick up her for a romantic dinner at the nice place.Awesome! on weekends you go see the neighborhood, but without fanaticism! Just a simple walk two people in love,without brain games pls))), without the gold dust in his eyes that the girl did not work out is not the right impression about you. Russian appreciate the sincerity and frankness in the mens thoughts(no sexual I mean).Sometimes we like to think out (its silly I know but its a fact).
Thats why better and more clearly explain their desires, fears, doubts, expectations, questions ....)))

wish you a good time!

[I/O]

Salty, on March 3rd, about a week ago, you wrote this..............

Hi there, quick question.  I've been corresponding with a lovely lady this last month.  It is proceeding quickly and so far so good.  We both seem to like each other very much and despite the short period of time there's been something like 50,000 words written, not to mention IM and Skype.

Then you write this ...................

someone who I feel like I've done a pretty good job of vetting

The two statements somewhat contradict each other if you step back and actually think about it. Good sense would dictate you spend a considerable amount more time vetting before you even flirt with the question of business class tickets to land someone you don't know stateside.

I can appreciate where you are coming from, truly, I can.

Salty, from what you've written in a couple of threads here, I don't think you have a clue where I'm coming from and frankly, it's not really that important to me but it may become important to you in due course. As I said before, hopefully not. If the lady turns up on cue, even business class, nobody'll be happier for you than me.

I didn't really come on the forums to discuss the intimate or personal details of my pursuit, or to get advice on how to conduct my affairs

That's actually rather common, most who come to these forums usually do so to have their ideas confirmed. Even more common is their objection if or when that doesn't happen.

[Faux Pas]

I/O - dude, I can appreciate where you are coming from, truly, I can.  It's probably sound, sage advice - I'm just of the opinion in this case that much of it doesn't apply.  I wish I could share why, but I don't feel it's appropriate to do so, so I won't.  I didn't really come on the forums to discuss the intimate or personal details of my pursuit, or to get advice on how to conduct my affairs (in regards to how much to trust, or not trust, to be overly cautious, etc.)  with someone I think I could come to care about very much...I think I am more than capable of being the judge in that matter and willingly suffering any consequences if I turn out to be wrong.  That's my problem and I'm a big boy.  I'm not trying to be smart-assy, or know-it-all, but conversely, the judgment/opinions expressed are sometimes not very nuanced or balanced so it's hard to take some of them seriously.  As always, appreciate the viewpoint, ..don't always agree, but I appreciate it nonetheless.

-Salty

Any advice you get here is worth every penny you paid for it. I don't know how much you've read in the archives but there are a number of threads where the newbie pops in and asks the type questions you are asking. One of the more recent ones was pretty much the same as yours, the lady already had a visa. Many including myself warned the guy that there's likely no visa and don't send money.

 He went against all of that wisdom and sent the money anyway. To my surprise the lady did have a visa and she did show up. What happened essentially is after a week he was back on the forum describing her shopping trip to America. (which he financed) Their daily trips were to every Mall within a daily driving distance and he was footing the bills. His explanation was he felt beholden to her, she had traveled all that way to visit him and he had some money and could afford it. Once she left he was on the forum stating how glad he was that she was gone but, how much he learned and how grateful he was from the experience.

Salty, only you truly know what is going on. We can only make off the cuff advice based on the information you have provided. The woman making the first trip and the man paying for it is very much "out of the norm" and very few (I can think of any) did it result in a happy ending.

It's been mentioned you seem to have a good grasp of the situation and feel pretty good about your visitor. You may very well be but, you're not out of the woods yet. Are you "that" much different from the dozens of others who have come here with your almost verbatim very same story? I'm not yet convinced but, we all hope that you are. 

Good Luck

[Ade]

He went against all of that wisdom and sent the money anyway. To my surprise the lady did have a visa and she did show up. What happened essentially is after a week he was back on the forum describing her shopping trip to America. (which he financed) Their daily trips were to every Mall within a daily driving distance and he was footing the bills. His explanation was he felt beholden to her, she had traveled all that way to visit him and he had some money and could afford it. Once she left he was on the forum stating how glad he was that she was gone but, how much he learned and how grateful he was from the experience.

Dudes like that have "Scam Me Please!" tattooed on their forehead.

Seriously, people are scammed because they let themselves be. I paid for a flight for my wife to meet me for the first time and I had absolutely no worries about that and, if she hadn't turned up, I would have put it down to experience; sometimes to reap great rewards you have to trust a little and take a leap of faith. Admittedly, it was a flight to SPB not the US and it was cattle-class not Business/First class but if he has money to burn, the mode of transport is his choice. If, when she gets there, she starts to demand him to pay for shopping sprees, then that is when he's likely find out if he's capable of resisting a scammers charms.

[Faux Pas]

Dudes like that have "Scam Me Please!" tattooed on their forehead.

Seriously, people are scammed because they let themselves be.

Agreed. However, one man's scam is another man's "cost of doing business".

I paid for a flight for my wife to meet me for the first time and I had absolutely no worries about that and, if she hadn't turned up, I would have put it down to experience; sometimes to reap great rewards you have to trust a little and take a leap of faith.

Also agreed. The nuance here is, some men can afford to buy/lose the required ticket and some can't. I'm not suggesting either way what your situation is but, for those who can't afford it and they get scammed, it likely turns them off to FSUW forever. Probably even many that can afford it. The problem with flirting with this scenario even though it worked out well in your favor, this particular scenario/request is very attractive to scammers. Those who actually make the trip and those that don't.

Admittedly, it was a flight to SPB not the US and it was cattle-class not Business/First class but if he has money to burn, the mode of transport is his choice. If, when she gets there, she starts to demand him to pay for shopping sprees, then that is when he's likely find out if he's capable of resisting a scammers charms.

There may be some of these scenarios that worked out. Woman already had a visa, visited man in U.S. and lived happily ever after. I just don't ever recollect one. If Salty has the bawls and intestinal fortitude to absorb the monetary losses and mental stability to see it is him who allowed it to happen and not be bitter, power to him. Seldom is that the case. You have to be one serious live and let live kind'a dude to get suckered and scammed looking for love and end it with ca' sera sera

[GoodOlBoy]

Question - did you guys spring for First/Business class....it's about an extra $1,500...

NO!

Salty, this is WAY over the top thinking for someone you haven't even met in person.

There is this thing called "chemistry" and sorry, BUT...... neither of you know if it exists until you actually meet face to face.

BTW...You BOTH must have it (chemistry), or it is a no go.

If you were to visit the states to see your potential partner, would you expect him to take that time off to spend it exclusively with you....

Salty, I am not trying to get personal here, but where is she staying?

The reason I ask, if she is staying with you, you almost have to clear your schedule for her. My wife did it for me when I visited her in Omsk and stayed at her flat (but we had already been on 2 trips together, Greece and Thailand).

If she is staying at a hotel or somewhere else, I would only set aside some extra "time off" from work for her.

Make sure you date and behave with this lady, as you normally do with any other AW (be yourself).

Good luck.

GOB

[GoodOlBoy]

That's actually rather common, most who come to these forums usually do so to have their ideas confirmed. Even more common is their objection if or when that doesn't happen.

I completely agree with I/O on this.

"The Emperor's New Clothes"...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Emperor's_New_Clothes

GOB

[Muzh]

Guys, why don't we take a deep breath and put away the tarot cards. No one can see what is going to happen, even Salty. HOWEVER, he made it VERY clear that he heard all the "advice" and is proceeding with the plan. And to me this is more than fine.

Save the lamblasting for (if) he comes back describing how he was scammed. IF that ever happens. I believe he is a grown man and can take care of himself.

Carry on.

[Faux Pas]

Guys, why don't we take a deep breath and put away the tarot cards. No one can see what is going to happen, even Salty. HOWEVER, he made it VERY clear that he heard all the "advice" and is proceeding with the plan. And to me this is more than fine.

I haven't seen the tarot cards and certainly am not reading any. You are correct, nobody knows what is going to happen. I however, would be remiss if I didn't relay to Salty some pertinent information that I have on the subject. He's going to do what he's going to do, he's a big boy. IMO, he should do it with all the available information he can find. That is why he is here, no?

Save the lamblasting for (if) he comes back describing how he was scammed. IF that ever happens. I believe he is a grown man and can take care of himself.

Carry on.

Why then? That's a bit late to do him any good, isn't it? 

[Muzh]

I haven't seen the tarot cards and certainly am not reading any. You are correct, nobody knows what is going to happen. I however, would be remiss if I didn't relay to Salty some pertinent information that I have on the subject. He's going to do what he's going to do, he's a big boy. IMO, he should do it with all the available information he can find. That is why he is here, no?

FP, I didn't say to hold back on more advice. What I meant was that part of the topic was discussed ad nauseam and you may have noticed he stopped responding to the specific topic.

Save the lamblasting for (if) he comes back describing how he was scammed. IF that ever happens. I believe he is a grown man and can take care of himself.

Why then? That's a bit late to do him any good, isn't it? 

Is it doing any good to him now after he said "thanks but no thanks?"

Just saying.

[GoodOlBoy]

  She's in a position where she can take as much time as she likes from her profession as well. 

She's been to the States twice.. Midwest and East coast.

Yes, I have pictures of her in the states, places I recognize and no they aren't photoshopped lol. 

So what we might be saying here is that she is definitely not new to the AM dating game?

GOB


Hint: It takes at least 2 people to make a picture.

[Gator]

Salty,

It is sweet of you to worry about her travel comfort.  Would you fly Business Class?  If not, why should she?  

Do not worry about her comfort.  I say that not because I am a hardass, but because  RW have a history of traveling for long periods (it is a big country).  A RW from Volgagrad rode the train for 36 hours to meet me in St. Piter.  A RW from Arkhangelsk rode train, ferry and airplane for over 36 hours to meet me in Spain.  Both of these meetings were the first meeting, and neither woman complained about the length of the trip.

For a RW to complain would actually be a bad sign in my opinion.  The women before these women dug trenches, worked double factory shifts, and endured years of siege in the Great Patriotic War.  The transition to a capitalist society had some brutal periods.  RW know hardship.  They are survivors.  Some did it as a single mother with no money from the father.  Most accept hardship without blinking, while in contrast their AW sisters would have crashed and entered therapy.

Based on what I have read, I would vote in a poll that your woman is sincere.  Much depends, however, upon what you have not told us.  I do caution you to Google her name and selected phrases from her first letters.   You should examine the steps that preceded sending her money (if you did).

Your personality is  evident in your posts.  I find you generous and romantic and a risk taker.  That is who you are, and that is how you should proceed.  It is  rare that a RW will come to America for the first meeting.  It saves you much time from making the trip to Russia, and even if (God Forbid) this does not work out, the time she saved you is worth whatever you spent on a ticket.
  

[Faux Pas]

FP, I didn't say to hold back on more advice. What I meant was that part of the topic was discussed ad nauseam and you may have noticed he stopped responding to the specific topic.

We could both sit here and surmise why he has stopped responding and both be wrong  My guess would be that he didn't like like what I/O had to say on the matter and now he might be giving the matter much more thought than he did previously and all at the same time, some of what I/O said has made a bit of sense to him even though he felt it was a challenge to his thought process or sincerity.

Is it doing any good to him now after he said "thanks but no thanks?"

Just saying.

Threads often morph into a life of their own. Even though they are borne from the OP they can help many others as well and often this is a result of beating that dead horse. Salty seems like his eyes are wide open to the possibilities. He has some sort of experience with scammer's from the FSU he says. While he does come across as an intelligent man, he asked some pretty basic stuff that reeks of inexperience. You have to admit her already having a visa, he buying her ticket in business class no less is the ingredients of a man thoroughly reamed at the end of the day. He's likely already got $3500 invested and that put's him on entirely another plateau if this woman is anything less than serious.

[Muzh]

We could both sit here and surmise why he has stopped responding and both be wrong 

You are so absolutely correct!!

The way a read Salty was totally the opposite of what you said.

Therefore, I'll agree to disagree. 

[Ade]

So what we might be saying here is that she is definitely not new to the AM dating game?

GOB


Hint: It takes at least 2 people to make a picture.

Actually, no, it doesn't.

And anyway, even if she were visiting another dude at some time in the past what does this say other than she visited anther guy in the past? Or are you saying that every dude that has "visited" more than one RW is somehow a scammer or undesirable? I guess a lot of guys tend to have double standards.

[GoodOlBoy]

Or are you saying that every dude that has "visited" more than one RW is somehow a scammer or undesirable? I guess a lot of guys tend to have double standards.

No SJ, I am not really saying any of that.
I guess all I am saying is: There's a lot more out there in the dark than just Santa Claus.
Tread carefully Kemosabe (Salty).


GOB

[GQBlues]

Well Salty, in the event she is actually Olga Genuineova and not Anna Fakerova, here are my suggestions...

1. Flights coming in from Moscow to Los Angeles is likely your best option as it is a direct flight both ways. Aeroflot.

2. Buy a kettle like this. Chances are you don't have one and chai is normally a staple for all FSUWs I know. Then shop Lupicia. If you know what type of tea she likes, I assure you Lupicia have at least 20 variation of it. Pick up a box of See's candies.

As for things to do, well, being from SoCal I reckon you pretty much know many POEs so I won't burden you with the usual. The only thing I'll say is unless she's into winter sports - keep off the Sierras this time of the year.

Unless you'd like tips in and around the LA basin, let me know but for now I'll keep the list to just simply 'ideas'....

1. The whales are migrating. A day trip to the Catalina Islands would be kewl. They have watersports, good hiking trails, ziplines, snorkeling (cold), or even rent a moped/golf cart to cruise the island.

2. Fly out of Burbank, to a) Vegas (40 minutes) and stay at Bellagio. Go see 'O', or...

3. b) fly to Frisco. Stay at Westin St Francis on Union Square. Spend the day at Golden Gate Park, take the ferry to Alcatraz, hike across the GG bridge, drive to Napa's wineries...

4. If driving along the coast is an option for the two of you...I would suggest renting a convertible and plan the PCH drive from Sta Monica to Monterey for at least 2 days. So many wonderful places in between you can hunker down in for the evening. Sta. Barbara, Cambria, Pismo Beach (great sand dunes), Big Sur, etc...she may 'hate' highway 1 because of the monotony, but if you do find yourselves on this path - stay at Ragged Point Inn. Very romantic.
The area between Cambria - Monterey have a lot of stops for hiking...each trail is both secluded and romantic.

5. Spend at least a full day in San Diego. My wife loves that city.

I'm being a bit 'general' here but as you are also from SoCal, I know you're likely aware of some if not all of the cool places to hit and do. The one thing that would be fun to do if you're in LA is try to hook a pass and watch film crews do some shoots. On any given day, somewhere/someplace they're shooting either movies or TV show skits or even on those soundstages. The better the connection you have, the better the experience.

I've done this twice before and I have no regret having done it and neither did the femmes...it's a bit nutty, costly, and whatever...Take 3-4 days out of the schedule and jet to Hawaii. 4 hour flight from LA. Hit just one island, either Oahu or Maui. Rent a jeep and drive the island. Attend a luau. If in Maui, the road to Hana is very cool but make sure to stay in Kaanapali. If in Oahu, Waikiki is cool because of the 'city' feel and still be in an island. North shore is very romantic, while Maui's sunset along the beaches of Lahaina/Kapalua/Kaanapali is enchanting. Eat lychees and jackfruits...

Kali have far more to offer for the 2.5 weeks she'll be here, but an island experience thrown in between even for a couple of days will be cool as wel.

Good luck.

[viking]

Salty

GOB raises a good point. She has been here twice. Ok. Why? Tourist? Met another guy ( who took the photos?). What happened back then? What went right and what went wrong. I would ask these questions. You really need more information before you become ( maybe and I hope not) just another vacation for her and going home with some great gifts. Sorry, but I have seen this many times before.

And last question. If you have some deep pockets and are willing to shell out quite a bit, why don't you go and see her and spend some time on her turf first..experience her culture. It will tell you a lot about her and it will be a great experience for you.

[Muzh]

Boy, I'm here scratching my head. I'm just curious. When you guys were single and just met some lady, did you gave her the third degree? If not at your first meeting, when? The second? Third?

Boy you guys are tough.

[SMS60]

Boy, I'm here scratching my head. I'm just curious. When you guys were single and just met some lady, did you gave her the third degree? If not at your first meeting, when? The second? Third?

Boy you guys are tough.

No room for the nice guys in this game

[Saltheart]

Lots of good questions.  Need to jet for a bit but will try to reply at length later today...might shed some light on some things...with that said, I also need to draw the line in terms of what's appropriate to share and what isn't but I'll cross that bridge soon enough.  Appreciate the insights and the time you guys are putting into this.

-SH

And no...haven't spent a dime other than the flowers.

[Muzh]

No room for the nice guys in this game

Is that so? You married? Why don't you ask your wife?

[Jumper]

GQ-
 all great idea's.

dang now you have me missing SoCal.
(and Norcal too)

Catalina's awesome ..
and of course you know i'm partial to SD, (well north county actually) but
mission bay and SD are great.