First Meeting

[GQBlues]

Cool AJ, I didn't know you are/were a lower left coaster. Yes, San Diego's awesome. Even my in-laws will happily agree with you on that. I liked what they've done with the gas light district, too. Mission Bay's a fun place to be. Great lookin' women  I spend a bit of time between Delmar and La Jolla (Torrey Pines).

Have you ever glided off the cliffs of Torrey? Salty ought to take his girl and try this on with her (if she's willing). Looks awesome from the golf course...

http://flytorrey.com/cms/

[viking]

Boy, I'm here scratching my head. I'm just curious. When you guys were single and just met some lady, did you gave her the third degree? If not at your first meeting, when? The second? Third?

Boy you guys are tough.

LOL Muzh

I have seen guys talk to a woman for a month, hop a plane, meet her for a week, propose, file paperwork, get married and then...some worked and some didn't.

I know men who had relationships spanning years, multiple visits, finally got married and then...some worked and some didn't.

And a whole bunch of deviations in between.

The main reason for coming here and asking questions basically comes down to how to minimize risk. We try to answer from our own experiences. Sometimes our advice is spot on and some times not. But hopefully our responses some how give food for thought and the newbie begins to understand that ultimately he must decide on his own, but now has better data to judge how to move forward.

The OP here has given very little info to base any kind of firm decision. He is reluctant to provide more data for us to formulate a better response. He does not need to give this woman the third degree, but in the course of normal conversation I personally would be very interested in knowing why she came to the states? If she came strictly as a tourist..did you enjoy the Grand Canyon? New York City, and so forth would make for a great conversation and her responses would also help to enforce the fact that she was truly here. ( for example..if said she walked to see the Statue of Liberty..sorry..you need a boat to get there) If she came here to meet some other men and it did not work out, why? I had no problem talking to my wife about the other women I had met, why those relationships did not work out, and why I am glad we choose each other.

I suggested he go and visit her first. He does not understand the RW culture. To suggest a first class seat is an indication of this. I think spending a few weeks in her home town, meeting mom and dad, friends, seeing the family photos and even more from her trips would be very insightful.

[I/O]

Save the lamblasting for (if) he comes back describing how he was scammed.

That's dumb.

he asked some pretty basic stuff that reeks of inexperience.

Bingo.

[GoodOlBoy]

I suggested he go and visit her first. He does not understand the RW culture. To suggest a first class seat is an indication of this. I think spending a few weeks in her home town, meeting mom and dad, friends, seeing the family photos and even more from her trips would be very insightful.

I agree.

GOB

BTW....After all these years, I still don't completely understand the RW/FSU culture.

[GQBlues]

....I suggested he go and visit her first. He does not understand the RW culture. To suggest a first class seat is an indication of this. I think spending a few weeks in her home town, meeting mom and dad, friends, seeing the family photos and even more from her trips would be very insightful.

I would differ with you on this one Viking. Let's assume she's real for the sake of conversation, and given the choice between a FSUW coming to me, or me going to Russia - I'll choose the former.

[GoodOlBoy]

I would differ with you on this one Viking. Let's assume she's real for the sake of conversation, and given the choice between a FSUW coming to me, or me going to Russia - I'll choose the former.

OK.

No matter how "westernized" she is GQ, there is NO WAY Salty will be prepared for the "little" FSU idiosyncrasies that he will encounter with this lady.

With NO trips to the FSU, he is definitely at a distinct disadvantage here.

Agree?

GOB

[GQBlues]

I can agree with that GOB - BUT - if this trip determines they are not fit for each other, then FWIW Salty need not bother himself to any of her culture, families, etc...

And if they liked each other enough and found reasons to move further into a relationship, he can then plan for future trips to FSU and go through the motion...no?

[GoodOlBoy]

And if they liked each other enough and found reasons to move further into a relationship, he can then plan for future trips to FSU and go through the motion...no?

Yes, I agree GQ.

It is possible.

I just hope Salty can get through the initial "shock" of the brutal honesty of RW (NO beatin' around the bush).

I know it took me awhile to "adjust" to it.

GOB

[Saltheart]

Forgive me in advance for the ridiculously long post.. did it in a text file so I apologize for the poor formatting.  Before I respond to individual posts, I should state that for a couple of different reasons I can't disclose some items that would explain a couple of things.  I apologize for that too as it's not fair per se, but there isn't much I can do about it at the moment.  One day I hope to come back and shed some light on that, but this will all be forgotten by then, lol.  To put it another way, my situation is a little delicate....with that said, I will do my best to answer as honestly as I can.

Sia Wrote:
everything depends on what level of your communication with this lady. If you are passionate stage of love, for your Darling will be important to just spend time with you in everyday in usual situation..I think if she really really love you it is not important to have  tour of the country or have fun in nights party. For her will be much more pleasant and useful to spend time with you in your house, look at how you live, to see if she could live as you used to. In turn, you can also look at it in the usual life tempe.Maybe she could not fit into your understanding of family relation.Just imagine this woman you will see every day and every night .... therefore correct to hold time if you're a real family. Just think how great it is to wake up alone in the morning, cook breakfast together, laugh, talk about everything or just keep silent

The communication has been...fairly intense.  It's been 6 weeks, not a long time, the first 3 weeks were exclusively email and the occasional IM chat, the last 3 weeks has been phone/skype video and we talk quite a bit...she's 12 hours ahead so it's problematic but we talk twice a day, sometimes for an hour, sometimes for 2-3 between the morning and evening talks...adds up...one important note, I didn't really intend on finding someone, this was more of a selfish excursion into ..I don't even know what to call it.  When we started communicating, I was a little less than honest about a couple of things, well, more in the way of not sharing some things, but as I realized this was a pretty special lady, I came clean on a couple of things...she drilled me, hard, haha...and frankly, after week 1 of a bunch of initial emails, week 2 and 3 were spent exhaustively explaining some things ..frankly, it sort of forged a bond as I forced myself to be very open, very honest...I think it meant a lot to her and we've made really steady progress since.  I explained myself as much as I did because I recognized this was a pretty special lady...her level of communication was high, balanced, and very real.  I've learned a lot in such a short time through her demonstrated integrity and brutal honesty.

I/O Wrote:
Salty, on March 3rd, about a week ago, you wrote this..............
Quote
Hi there, quick question.  I've been corresponding with a lovely lady this last month.  It is proceeding quickly and so far so good.  We both seem to like each other very much and despite the short period of time there's been something like 50,000 words written, not to mention IM and Skype.
Then you write this ...................
Quote
someone who I feel like I've done a pretty good job of vetting
The two statements somewhat contradict each other if you step back and actually think about it. Good sense would dictate you spend a considerable amount more time vetting before you even flirt with the question of business class tickets to land someone you don't know stateside.

Hi I/O - well I suppose this is subjective and relative at the same time.  I personally feel like I have done due diligence to a level I am comfortable with.  As for the tickets, I have 2 comments on that... due to being an inexperienced newb, I didn't realize you could get a direct flight to LAX from Moscow in 12 1/2 hours when I wrote that... all I was seeing was these horrendous 22-24 hour flights and I just felt sort of bad.  I don't like to frivolously throw an extra $1,500 dollars away but I've done pretty well and it doesn't really hurt me.  Furthermore, I'm sort of just that type in general..for example, if I fire someone, I tend to go find them a job, haha.  Call it whatever, but it's worked very well for me and I am grateful to be in the position to lend a little support here and there.  In this case, here is someone that in a short 6 weeks has actually had a bit of an impact on me in a very positive way, if it's no sweat off my back and I can make a long flight more comfortable, than I don't see why I shouldn't.  If I was to know that might offend her sensibilities or cultural background than I would want to respect that and she can sit in coach...hence why I am here, to learn   I don't want to force generosity or anything else on someone who doesn't want it, that's not cool...and of course, it's a fine balance of when to lend a hand or not, for many people it hurts them more than helps them and I try to stay cognizant of that.  With that said, I am going to do the direct flight and have her fly coach.  She didn't realize it was a 12 1/2 hour flight either and she is thrilled.

FP Wrote:
It's been mentioned you seem to have a good grasp of the situation and feel pretty good about your visitor. You may very well be but, you're not out of the woods yet.Are you "that" much different from the dozens of others who have come here with your almost verbatim very same story? I'm not yet convinced but, we all hope that you are.

No idea FP.  I think some things might be unusual but I don't have a lot of context to really know.  I think her time spent out of Russia in western countries for 3+ years is very helpful, her English is just about perfect (minus the accent and that is nothing short of awesome sauce). her vocabulary is better than many native English speakers, very articulate...her writing is spot-on...Talking to her is interesting because she has such a good grasp on our culture, and then she patiently explains hers.  She definitely has the advantage in that regard and occasionally I feel like I'm being schooled, but not in a bad way, lol...just in the fact that she's a little more worldly then I am and I've done a pretty good amount of international traveling.  She impresses the hell out of me frankly.

FP Wrote:
Woman already had a visa, visited man in U.S. and lived happily ever after. I just don't ever recollect one. If Salty has the bawls and intestinal fortitude to absorb the monetary losses and mental stability to see it is him who allowed it to happen and not be bitter, power to him. Seldom is that the case. You have to be one serious live and let live kind'a dude to get suckered and scammed looking for love and end it with ca' sera sera

In truth, I am sort of like that.  I stopped trying to control all the outcomes in life a long time ago.. I'm responsible for the effort, not the results.  I do my best not to get suckered/scammed of course, and other than some insurance fraud people I deal with, I can't recall the last time I was.  I try not to keep my blinders on, but I'm not naive to the fact that I can't be taken advantage of.  I just do my best not to be and don't sweat the rest.

GOB Wrote:
Question - did you guys spring for First/Business class....it's about an extra $1,500...

NO!

Salty, this is WAY over the top thinking for someone you haven't even met in person.

There is this thing called "chemistry" and sorry, BUT...... neither of you know if it exists until you actually meet face to face.

BTW...You BOTH must have it (chemistry), or it is a no go.

Quote from: Saltheart on March 08, 2011, 11:53:08 PM
If you were to visit the states to see your potential partner, would you expect him to take that time off to spend it exclusively with you....

Salty, I am not trying to get personal here, but where is she staying?

The reason I ask, if she is staying with you, you almost have to clear your schedule for her. My wife did it for me when I visited her in Omsk and stayed at her flat (but we had already been on 2 trips together, Greece and Thailand).

If she is staying at a hotel or somewhere else, I would only set aside some extra "time off" from work for her.
Make sure you date and behave with this lady, as you normally do with any other AW (be yourself). 

Hola GOB - great post... read above re: tickets, I am going to go coach...didn't realize it was 12 1/2 hours.

Totally agree re: Chemistry -- if it's not there right out the gate it's a game-over.  It's weird because we really connected well through initial writing, then IM, and now Skype Video..which is a lot more "real" ..and we do really well with that and are both clearly excited to see each other each day...so, I wonder how that will translate in real life...we talk about that, and we know that the longer this goes on this way the more our expectations might become unmanageable and unrealistic, so we are pushing to get together ASAP to really know..if it doesn't work out, we move o.

She'll be staying at my house, in a guest bedroom - unless that changes

I will positively behave...she's earned nothing but my respect thus far, not to mention, I really do try not to be an asshat in that way anyway. 

GOB Wrote:
So what we might be saying here is that she is definitely not new to the AM dating game? Undecided

Nope - she is not new to it at all.  She has met more than a handful of AM.  As it appears that most RW are, she is exceedingly attractive, highly educated, and solid.  I didn't really think I had a shot frankly... she responded to an EOI I sent much to my surprise.  I was using EM, and I feel pretty good about that site...seems genuine...at least half my EOI's were responded with "Not interested" - which frankly, I appreciated as it made it more real.  In any event, she has been very open about the men she's met and didn't shy away from the questions at all.  I can only take her on face value, and I do... as I just honest to goodness haven't found a reason not to yet...she says this has been a very unusual experience for her personally, as she hasn't ever really gotten emotionally involved with someone she's never met.  She can be reserved, shes highly analytical (is that a russian thing?) and from what I can tell, very honest.  So, I believe her, I think this IS different for her and perhaps it was due to the trial-by-fire period I explained about earlier which really forced a bunch of things very fast and very early and was in all sincerity, pretty intense.

Gator Wrote:
Salty,

It is sweet of you to worry about her travel comfort.  Would you fly Business Class?  If not, why should she? 

Do not worry about her comfort.  I say that not because I am a hardass, but because  RW have a history of traveling for long periods (it is a big country).  A RW from Volgagrad rode the train for 36 hours to meet me in St. Piter.  A RW from Arkhangelsk rode train, ferry and airplane for over 36 hours to meet me in Spain.  Both of these meetings were the first meeting, and neither woman complained about the length of the trip.

For a RW to complain would actually be a bad sign in my opinion.  The women before these women dug trenches, worked double factory shifts, and endured years of siege in the Great Patriotic War.  The transition to a capitalist society had some brutal periods.  RW know hardship.  They are survivors.  Some did it as a single mother with no money from the father.  Most accept hardship without blinking, while in contrast their AW sisters would have crashed and entered therapy.

Based on what I have read, I would vote in a poll that your woman is sincere.  Much depends, however, upon what you have not told us.  I do caution you to Google her name and selected phrases from her first letters.   You should examine the steps that preceded sending her money (if you did).

Your personality is  evident in your posts.  I find you generous and romantic and a risk taker.  That is who you are, and that is how you should proceed.  It is  rare that a RW will come to America for the first meeting.  It saves you much time from making the trip to Russia, and even if (God Forbid) this does not work out, the time she saved you is worth whatever you spent on a ticket.

If it wasn't exorbitantly expensive I would fly business.  If I feel a pang of "ouch" then I wouldn't..you won't see me buying $10k tickets, that's retarded...for me anyway.  Yeah, I can't imagine her complaining about not getting business but then again, there is still much to her I don't know but from what I do know that would seem out of character. 

I do think she is very sincere..if anything, I think I had to do some catch-up on the honesty level to which I feel I've made adequate amends, not because she asked me to but because I was being a frikken tool and having "fun".

Thanks for the kind words, much appreciated.  Yeah, I am really digging that she is coming here first...reading what I've read here, the prospect of going there (which if it works out... I will of course) seems a little daunting in it's own way.  I love traveling but something feels different to me about this...so yes, at least out the gate, I am thankful she is coming here first.

FP Wrote:
Threads often morph into a life of their own. Even though they are borne from the OP they can help many others as well and often this is a result of beating that dead horse. Salty seems like his eyes are wide open to the possibilities. He has some sort of experience with scammer's from the FSU he says. While he does come across as an intelligent man, he asked some pretty basic stuff that reeks of inexperience. You have to admit her already having a visa, he buying her ticket in business class no less is the ingredients of a man thoroughly reamed at the end of the day. He's likely already got $3500 invested and that put's him on entirely another plateau if this woman is anything less than serious.

Guilty as charged..very inexperienced with this stuff.  All I know is AW.  If I implied I was experienced with scammers from FSU (don't think I did) I misspoke.  The only experience I would have with it is the reading I've done on different websites in terms of what to look for.  I saw some of it on EM, not a lot, but I didn't really invest a whole lot of time with any of them anyway, she was really the only one who sort of caught my attention.  I am experienced quite a bit with fraud/scammers stateside which is not exactly apples to apples I admit.

GQBlues Wrote:
Fantastic suggestions...

Dude - awesome suggestions, you are my hero!  As sad as this sounds, after living in the desert for 10 years and spending a mind numbing amount of time doing almost nothing but building my business, I didn't get out much to other parts of Cali so alot of these would be new to me as well...so again, thank you, post saved!

Viking Wrote:
GOB raises a good point. She has been here twice. Ok. Why? Tourist? Met another guy ( who took the photos?). What happened back then? What went right and what went wrong. I would ask these questions. You really need more information before you become ( maybe and I hope not) just another vacation for her and going home with some great gifts. Sorry, but I have seen this many times before.

And last question. If you have some deep pockets and are willing to shell out quite a bit, why don't you go and see her and spend some time on her turf first..experience her culture. It will tell you a lot about her and it will be a great experience for you.

I've addressed some of these above but I will add to it.  I have asked all these questions actually and more...she has unflinchingly answered all of them.  Her two visits were to AM..there was nothing "wrong" with them per se, and according to her they were nice men, good guys, respectful, very interested in her, etc...she just didn't feel the connection.  She's been through a couple of things which I can't really go into but she is committed to making sure she is with the person she really feels connected to and bonds with on lots of different levels...I don't want to say she is prudish, but she definitely has some boundaries which appear very healthy to me.  As for visiting Russia, if it works out, I definitely will...probably more times than I expect to

SMS Wrote:
No room for the nice guys in this game

Jeez, hope that isn't the case or I'm screwed

GQB Wrote:

Have you ever glided off the cliffs of Torrey? Salty ought to take his girl and try this on with her (if she's willing). Looks awesome from the golf course...

No but again, fantastic!


Viking Wrote:

The OP here has given very little info to base any kind of firm decision. He is reluctant to provide more data for us to formulate a better response. He does not need to give this woman the third degree, but in the course of normal conversation I personally would be very interested in knowing why she came to the states? If she came strictly as a tourist..did you enjoy the Grand Canyon? New York City, and so forth would make for a great conversation and her responses would also help to enforce the fact that she was truly here. ( for example..if said she walked to see the Statue of Liberty..sorry..you need a boat to get there) If she came here to meet some other men and it did not work out, why? I had no problem talking to my wife about the other women I had met, why those relationships did not work out, and why I am glad we choose each other.

I suggested he go and visit her first. He does not understand the RW culture. To suggest a first class seat is an indication of this. I think spending a few weeks in her home town, meeting mom and dad, friends, seeing the family photos and even more from her trips would be very insightful.

Pretty sure I've covered this in full now...and no doubt, I seriously lack any real understanding of the culture other than what I've been able to read on different sites (been putting some real time into that) and of course from talking with her...with all of that said it's just the tip of the iceberg and I clearly have much to learn.

GQB:
I would differ with you on this one Viking. Let's assume she's real for the sake of conversation, and given the choice between a FSUW coming to me, or me going to Russia - I'll choose the former.

Me too..

GoodOlBOy Wrote:
No matter how "westernized" she is GQ, there is NO WAY Salty will be prepared for the "little" Roll Eyes FSU idiosyncrasies that he will encounter with this lady.

With NO trips to the FSU, he is definitely at a distinct disadvantage here.

Agreed!  But I don't see it as a bad thing, I just find it makes her that much more interesting to me as she has a dual outlook which is kind of wild.  Now, I haven't seen any superstitions yet but I haven't probed about that yet either so we'll see  

GQB Wrote:
I can agree with that GOB - BUT - if this trip determines they are not fit for each other, then FWIW Salty need not bother himself to any of her culture, families, etc...

And if they liked each other enough and found reasons to move further into a relationship, he can then plan for future trips to FSU and go through the motion...no?

Agree again - if it doesn't work out with her, I'm not entirely sure I would do this again actually.  I think AW have some issues for sure, not all of course, but other than my "fun" excursion into looking into this it didn't occur to me to think of this as a real option for myself.  That's changing of course, ..if she is even representative of some of the women there, then it's definitely worth considering.  I really like what I've seen so far and even some of the other ladies on EM impressed me although I never took it far.

Good Ol Boy:
I just hope Salty can get through the initial "shock" of the brutal honesty of RW (NO beatin' around the bush). Wink

I'm sure it will be worse in person...but she certainly has shocked me a bit in this regard and I LOVE IT!  I can't think of many AW I know who have been as fearlessly honest as she's been...she has zero problems calling me on anything that might appear to be bullsh'it.  Keep in mind, I'm not intentionally trying to bullsh'it in a malicious way, but sometimes I can make off-the-cuff remarks that are not totally consistent with previous statements and she catches every one of them.  It keeps me in check and helps me take a look at myself which is fine with me.

------

Anyway, hope this sheds some light.  In closing, I really do think she is very sincere, every letter she wrote was completely custom and consistent with my questions.  It's been a short period of time and while I have nothing to compare it with in terms of how you guys interacted early on with your interests, it does feel like it's been a bit of an accelerated boot camp and we've covered  a lot of ground in such a short time.  I think there are genuine feelings being established and it's tempered by the reality that we haven't met and that we might be disappointed.  One question that came up was how long she should stay...most of the times she has met men were for 3-4 days and the ones she liked a bit more was for a week.  She feels a week is more than adequate to determine if they should meet again.   She has suggested that perhaps due to the unusual level of emotional connection she is feeling with me that perhaps 10-14 days might be better which is fine with me.  I find her interesting enough that if it didn't work out, I think I could just as happily spend a week talking to her as the conversations are great...which is a must for me in a relationship anyway.  So, I feel good about that.  The only catch thus far for me personally is that I am a little more involved than I would like to be.  I can roll pretty easily with things not working out, life is life, and I've had a really good share of ups and downs which I've come to expect...but I have invested a little more than is usual for me this early. Despite how open I can be, I can be fairly cautious in my own way as well.  When I was making comments earlier about if this was a scammed, it was well earned, I meant it, because frankly, she'll be getting a terrible ROI for putting in as much work with me as she has.  I just don't see it.  She seems like a great lass and I hope things work out.  We'll know by middle of April.

Ok - enough about me,...sheesh...how bout them Red Sox?

-Salty

[I/O]

We'll know by middle of April.

What if she doesn't front?

[Saltheart]

What if she doesn't front?

Her loss?

[Faux Pas]

Salty

You have a gut feeling that this is one and likely the most spectacular woman on the planet. You've done enough due diligence to suit yourself. The gut is often all you have to go on. And she may very well be said woman. But she may also be something completely different that what you feel she is. This can happen whether she visits you or you visit her. Her visiting you or suggesting that she'll visit you is cause for alarm. Not a deal maker or breaker all of itself but, in the percentages, very, very rare.

If she does indeed show up, I'd suggest the 2 weeks. You need as much face time as possible and if this is for you, you'll find that each trip, no matter who makes it, face time and experience with each other should be maximized. The other side of that is, if she isn't who or what you think she is you'll be stuck with an annoying woman for two weeks. Save your money on her ticket to see you. Let her buy her own ticket. You might wish to spend it more wisely to send her back early. If not, spend it following some GQ's trip tips.

Good luck guy. No matter how it turns out, we're all on your side and hope the best for you.

[Saltheart]

Salty

You have a gut feeling that this is one and likely the most spectacular woman on the planet. You've done enough due diligence to suit yourself. The gut is often all you have to go on. And she may very well be said woman. But she may also be something completely different that what you feel she is. This can happen whether she visits you or you visit her. Her visiting you or suggesting that she'll visit you is cause for alarm. Not a deal maker or breaker all of itself but, in the percentages, very, very rare.

If she does indeed show up, I'd suggest the 2 weeks. You need as much face time as possible and if this is for you, you'll find that each trip, no matter who makes it, face time and experience with each other should be maximized. The other side of that is, if she isn't who or what you think she is you'll be stuck with an annoying woman for two weeks. Save your money on her ticket to see you. Let her buy her own ticket. You might wish to spend it more wisely to send her back early. If not, spend it following some GQ's trip tips.

Good luck guy. No matter how it turns out, we're all on your side and hope the best for you.

Thanks man, appreciate it.  Question, and again, forgive my ignorance... other than the fact that it is unusual for a RW to be able to travel to the US, why is it so odd that she would offer to visit me?  A couple other things to share... she really enjoyed her time out of the FSU.  I think it was really eye-opening for her and she is certain that she would prefer to raise a family outside of it despite how much she would miss her family and friends.  She likes the openness of the cultures, the politics, the social issues, etc., and of course the people.  The US is not her first choice by the way, it's her third lol.   At first she thought people being so open and friendly were almost naive, but she realized they were not.  She isn't "down" on Russia, she loves her country, but there are aspects to it which she can't stand...the sexism, etc., although she states she is "definitely not a feminist" lol.

BTW - she has also equally suggested that I come to visit her first as well.  Due to some personal and work situations I currently have going on, it's making more sense for her to come here.  One final tidbit she is doing some career changing at the moment, and she is putting at risk a very good job opportunity to do this... I don't want to get into a lot on that but she's potentially taking a pretty good hit by coming in April...., I can't go anywhere until this summer.  Neither one of us wants to wait that long, but this job is something along the lines of 600-800 a month If I remember correctly which I understand to be pretty good money there?  Again, there is more to this which would explain some things but I can't go there.  I asked her if she could get another job like this, she says yes, but they aren't easy to get... and if she was to ultimately decide to stay in Russia, she would go back to being self employed where she was making something along the lines of 1000-1200 a month.

[chivo]

Thanks man, appreciate it.  Question, and again, forgive my ignorance... other than the fact that it is unusual for a RW to be able to travel to the US, why is it so odd that she would offer to visit me?

It's just not typical of a RW with honorable intentions to visit a man who she's met online at first. Which is why many are telling you not to go overboard with things at the moment. But if she's flipping for the ticket, I say why not.

this job is something along the lines of 600-800 a month If I remember correctly which I understand to be pretty good money there?

Not really, but if she's from a small town, then maybe. To give you an idea the starting salary at McDonald's in Moscow is $700 a month. If you've mentioned her city in this thread I missed it so I'm not sure where's she's from, so while not what I would call great money, considering where she lives and the availability of jobs it could be decent. 

Also just to echo what GQ said about LA and So Cal. I was there last September with my lady for 2 weeks and we did the San Diego (2 days)-Las Vegas (3 days)-Santa Barbara (1 day) thing including 7 days in LA mixed in between trips and it was all we could do given the time as we stayed in Mission Viejo with family and friends and did the Laguna-Newport Beach thing as well for a couple of days (we drove everywhere). She loved it all of course. She also wanted to see San Francisco and a few other places, but we just didn't have the time. Plan accordingly, 2 weeks will fly by.

[I/O]

Her loss?

Probably not. More likely would demonstrate her is only a front for him and you've been taken in by it all but hopefully none of this will be the case.

[Saltheart]

Probably not. More likely would demonstrate her is only a front for him and you've been taken in by it all but hopefully none of this will be the case.

To what gain?  It's not like I would send her cash to buy tickets, I can buy them myself yes?  I've had 3 experiences thus far that touch on finances to some degree or another ... First .. Early into this I sent her some pictures of my office... Had some interesting/amusing work stuff going on I was sharing with her and sent the pictures for context but she took that another way and quite correctly which was I was trying to impress her ... She called me on it.  The second was I indicated that because I wanted to not be tethered to skype in order to call her more freely and vice versa I floated the idea that maybe I could spring for a skype capable smart phone, she indicated she could take care of that herself and last I said well let me at least pay for a calling card or something and she refused that as well saying that she could pay for calls to her cell and/or that wasn't necessary.  She has never brought up finances at all and thinks that is my own business.  She has already figured out if shevwas to cone to the states what would be a reasonable profession where she could earn a modest salary in the 50-75k range... She didn't mention numbers but in the health field... Which is not her background btw those would be the numbers and it's a decent, not overly stressful career choice.  As ive tried to indicate she just appears very balanced and reasonable.  The only doubts I've had at all has come in the last week from here and while I am learning some things here one part of me feels like I'm unecessarily poisoning my own well ... Based not on anything she's actually done or said but through projected fears and/or  "learned caution" from some of you who have gone through the fire in your own ways.  I feel like I'm doing a bit of a diservice to her by engaging in this.  I do have lots of practical questions and would sincerely appreciate any help with that and hopefully I can meaningfully contribute to that and help others someday with my own experiences but I think I will try to avoid answering or feeding any other questions that impinge upon her sincerity or legitimacy as she hasn't warranted any of those suspicions in my book.  I'm sure many of you won't agree with that and I'm ok with that.

I do have 2 questions and of course maybe it's just her personality but I'll throw it out there anyway as i've found it a little unusual.

1 - She analyzes things very carefully, ..perhaps it's her trade, but was wondering if that is a common trait?

2 - My family calls me "The Word Generator" but this girl, on occasion (fairly frequently) answers questions or proposes her own with really long periods of dialogue - I've literally listened to her speak for up to 10 minutes without pause.  This isn't mindless blather, ... Just using the example of say, sexism in Russia and it's effects, she will respond in an almost editorial style way... And she nails it... And I'm left sitting there a little stupefied as I wouldn't be able to do that and I'm pretty good with conversing at length on many topics... Again, in instances like that it sort of triggers my own stuff as I'm feeling frankly a little outclassed which I'm not used to... Not trying to sound arrogant it's just not alot of people I meet where I feel schooled and my circle of people in my life are very succesful, intelligent, highly educated and she could probably shut down any one of them in a discussion.  This sh'it tickles me pink by the way as I spent ten years in a marriage where that level if discourse was severely lacking.  Again, my issues.  Is this somewhat common or did I just stumble upon an exceptionally intelligent woman who not only accesses her head but her heart at the same time which in my personal experience isn't always easy to do... Not for me anyway.

These are more the issues/discussions I would like to get some feedback on.

Thanks much!

-Salty

[Saltheart]

Last but not least and take it for what it's worth and I'm sure I'll suffer relentless abuse from some of you hah!  I'm an average looking guy in my opinion and a big guy at that - 6'2, 265 lbs, dark hair, blue eyes (fortunately it's weirdly evenly distributed so I pull it off a little better than most but I still very much need to drop another 50 LBS - by the way, only up until the last week she only saw whY I call my super fat pics haha, when I was 330 - trust me they were not very good yet she indicated she found me attractive despite the weight and that was my choice and she didn't feel it was her place to change me - shedid say that she enjoys eating healthy and would certainly encourage ne to do so as well if rhYs what I wanted to)... When I sent her recent pics with the weight loss she was thrilled and only said something to the effect that I further confirmed her opinion that I was a handsom man to her and that I had no reason to be so down on myself.  Very sweet and I don't hide that I have some self-esteem issues.  Being drastically overweight from some years of makig bad personal choices can do that.

According to her what has made this very different for her is she finds me different.  She says I can be "bossy" but that it's matched by a very open, sincere side that she feels is a very good mix and that she's never really encountered.  I don't think I'm unusual at all in that regard other than the fact that I resist my base impulses to feel like I need to be "super tough guy man" that's in control and constantly leading.  I think some women want that and that's fine - that's not the type of woman I want - Im turned on by self sufficient women who also know how to keep a balance between their own needs/wants/desires and still having strong family values.  Maybe I'm crazy but I think it's off to a very good start with a strong foundation thus far, or as well as I could expect at this point anyway.

-Salt

[GQBlues]

Salty-

Reply No. 65 has way too much life plan discussion to me, but that's just me....You're a bit deeper into this 'relationship' than you realize, dunno. Your mind is creating a whole universe with a woman you haven't met. It's only been a month for her to be the center of your world, dude. You're starting to sound like a typical FSU-bound AM.

Go out and get yourself a date. Tonight.

...I'm an average looking guy in my opinion and a big guy at that - 6'2, 265 lbs, dark hair, blue eyes (fortunately it's weirdly evenly distributed so I pull it off a little better than most but I still very much need to drop another 50 LBS - by the way, only up until the last week she only saw whY I call my super fat pics haha, when I was 330 -...

That's no laughing matter, man. Get yourself a trikke - today. If you need to use this woman as an inspiration, let it be so, just do it! That's the best and most fun exercise toy your money can buy.

I could never understand why there's so many people who fall into that abyss here in America. Especially in America where all the means and methods to pick any activity or recreational sports are so easily available to each and everyone of us. This really isn't about fast food, junk food, pasta-licious or how much of it you eat. It's about what you 'do' with what you eat. At your age, you shouldn't be in that state.

Not judging you, man. It's your life and body, you do with it as you please...IIWY, I'd shake those booties and sweat.

[Saltheart]

Well considering I've dropped almost 60 lbs in 6 months I'd say I'm on my way.

[Gator]

I do have 2 questions and of course maybe it's just her personality but I'll throw it out there anyway as i've found it a little unusual.

Everyone is different.   Whatever floats your boat...

I don't believe you need to get a date tonight, yet I caution you to put a governor on your expectations.  

As far as your weight, IMO most RW tend  to prefer husky men over skinny men.   However, that much weight is not good for your long term health.

[GQBlues]

Well considering I've dropped almost 60 lbs in 6 months I'd say I'm on my way.

That's good, man. 60 more to go. Get the Trikke, even Jimmy Carter will tell you that  

http://www.trikke.com/st01/JIMMY/carter.html

For the most part, anyone can go to FSU and 'find' a woman and bring her 'home'. That's the easy part.

Looking at you through the Skype screen won't be the same as looking at you surrounded by other 35 year old male in your neck of the woods. Tanned and in a much, much better shape.

[Chicagoguy]

I think you have done everything you need to do so now maybe quit speculating and start anticipating.

One thing about this whole endeavor is that in the U.S.-IMO-most people date a year or more before we marry. And with the Russian women we are pursing it might easily take us a year but we seldom have a whole year of continuous facetome together. Frequently the first time they see the U.S. is when they arrive on a fiance visa. So this can be a sort of condensed engagement.

But somehow this seems to work out. From what I have read about the same as regular marriages. Are we lucky ? I am not sure of the reasons.

Maybe I missed it but when is the ETA ? I am anxious for that first report.

[I/O]

I think I will try to avoid answering or feeding any other questions that impinge upon her sincerity or legitimacy

Denial isn't only a river in the Mid East.  Salty, in your response, notwithstanding your claim that money isn't an issue, you continually focus on that as being her only possible gain. It isn't about her (if her is her) gain as much as it is about your loss. Money, crap, $5000, one can earn that back in a heartbeat. It's your emotional investment is where I'm angling. You're in this way over your head and need to get a grip IMO.

Take a look at what could be the very best case scenario. She does actually front (a handful have over the years) and you have two blissful weeks together. What now? I'll tell you what now for the most part. If you've any sense, you'll plan a second period of time together and believe me, THAT IS when you really start to figure each other out. The euphoria is gone, the novelty is gone and it comes down to whether or not you actually like each other. People are easy enough to love but it isn't always so easy to like someone.

As for her analytical nature, yes, I've seen that in Russians but I wouldn't call it a trait. What you will find is the average Russian is better educated than the average American. At a higher level (say 2 degrees or masters or...) IME the disparity is not great generally and may even swing the other way. What is typical is the willingness to argue or present the case at length and often  rather dogmatically I might add.

As far as all her apparent comments about you, your attractiveness or otherwise, THAT does ring loud bells with me because I simply haven't met many, in fact I can't remember any, RW who'll go there at all, much less prior to meeting. But.......understand, they will discuss this with their peers or friends.

[viking]

But.......understand, they will discuss this with their peers or friends.

And that is true. They will discuss you...at length..with friends and family. My wife made up her own mind about me, but when I was there at a dinner with her and her friends, that is when her best friend came up to me and told me that " now that I see you, I am in agreement". I doubt if her friend's opinion of me, if it went the other way, would have stopped my then GF from taking the plunge, but I would think that if all her friends/family had a problem she might have had second thoughts.

A man I know visited  a woman twice and she came here twice ( business visa) and even then she took some time to make up her mind. Marriage.. period.. and to a man in another country should not be a one shot deal. Takes time and face time.

[Gator]

Salty,


As Viking and I/O suggest, take your time.   You are in an enviable position.  She has a tourist visa and a flexible work schedule, so she can come to America again and again.  And you seemingly have the money to pay for protracted international dating.  I assume she has a multiple entry visa.  When does it expire?

Personally I feel I/O's best case scenario will happen.  Given the differences in culture and language, you should have residual questions.    I have planned several first meetings with RW that required them to travel, and they all showed.   Only one meeting was a vacation from hell, yet she showed (I wish she hadn't).


Have you purchased her air tix yet?  I suggest you do that soon for an April meeting. When you purchase a ticket such as with Aeroflot (http://www.aeroflot.ru/cms/en), you will need her passport information.  So ask her to send you a copy of her passport photo page.   Different US airlines to consider are Delta  and United (connects at Dulles).