Men are from Mars, women from Venus.Society for those who want to understand

[Daveman]

I have no doubt Sia is a *sweet* woman, Dave. LOL. But I bet that isn't *really* the adjective you wanted to use, yes?

Anyway, be honest, what do you think of the post I quoted above?

Purely emotional expressions of someone seeking something greater not yet attained ... the greater dream.. a deeper connection

High maintenance? possibly, but in a different way... more along the lines of being highly involved in the relationship, sometimes intense communication, emotional expression, etc., rather than the typical meaning of High Maintenance.  Of course, I could be completely off base..

[Muzh]

I think some guys here are confusing the term "character" with brute force.

A man of character can be sweet and loving to a woman. Also, he can and will care for what his woman needs not expecting anything in return.

This alpha male vs beta male BS is nothing more than excuses not to man up to the responsibilities of a man of character.

Don't confuse the testosteron-laden macho man with being a man of character.

[JR]

Purely emotional expressions of someone seeking something greater not yet attained ... the greater dream.. a deeper connection

High maintenance? possibly, but in a different way... more along the lines of being highly involved in the relationship, sometimes intense communication, emotional expression, etc., rather than the typical meaning of High Maintenance.  Of course, I could be completely off base..

I think it means she is not well suited for the typical Neanderthal man (I include myself in that category). We are not well suited for such dramatic changes in so short a time frame. My ex could do this in a half hour time period: go from screeching banshee to happy and calm, then back to pissed when I didn't make the change with her...

[Nat]

Sia, interesting that a few hours ago I was thinking about Miss O Hara and wondered if you knew about the book "Gone With The Wind" or "Scarlett" as the Russians call it. The reason I thought of it was on account of the character Rhett Butler, the perfect Alpha male that women are so easily attracted to. How sensitive was Rhett to Scarlett's emotions? Did he soften himself and become her plaything bowing to her every emotion and whim and being careful not to get her upset? No, he told her hard truths in no uncertain terms and set limits. She hated him for it.  She had met Rhett when she was young and had her head filled with all sorts of silly notions of what kind of man she needed. Later as she matured she realised he was a MAN and someone whom she could count on unlike her pathetic beta male Ashley Wilkes.

Maxx, it seems to me that your perception of alpha males is a bit clouded by the fact that you're a man A lot of women are "easily attracted to alpha males", as you put it, not because they're rude and insensitive, but because they are confident, usually tend not to be scared by women's character, they are able to be around strong women without having complexes about it, and because you can count on them even in the situations which won't be very comfortable for them personally. So women who love them, do it not because of the disadvantages they have, but for the advantages which go with this package, and just put up with the disadvantages because everybody has them. But if there are only disadvantages left, who will possibly tolerate them? So being insensitive and rude isn't an alpha-male thing, and it doesn't attract women, being self-confident and brave - that's it

Oh, for the record - I didn't read the whole 6-pages topic, I just commented on this message, just in case there are some plot lines I'm missing here

[GQBlues]

This is a good example how a cute pair of legs can *affect* a person's honest perception. These free-wheeling self expressions had been exercised by the likes of Gothman, KevinN, and heck even Duke Maxwell...and look what happened to those dudes...

Taking the post solely in it's context, and at the risk of having to face an attacking band of avenging Lotharios, honestly to me it reads as though it came from someone who is either:

a) Moody, or
b) Self-Centered, or
c) Bi-Polar, or
d) Depressive, or
e) Manic-Depressive

Even the writer's associate is befuddled with the constant swing in state. Had anyone even noticed that?

[Gator]

Anyway, be honest, what do you think of the post I quoted above?

Sia's mood swing between her prior posts and the post you quoted suggest that something is troubling Sia.  Something happened.  Maybe it was bad and significant.  Without information, we do not know.  Yet, you jump to conclusions and dismiss it as trivial.  We do not know what happened to Sia, so why do you use this post as a basis to say she is a blood sucker (vampire) and mentally unstable????

GQ, your recent sour attitude continues.  As I asked in another thread, what has happened to you?  Are you okay?

None of us know Sia.  Yet her words impress me as a romantic soul with an abundance of creativity and energy.  Yes, you and I both think “energy.”  You viewed her energy as a negative, yet I consider her "live wire" energy a positive (personally, I abhor boredom). 

Sia feels and expresses her emotions.  I consider that the height of openness, a trait I adore.  I much prefer that over a reticent, cold woman who keeps her emotions inside.   She is the type of person with whom deliberation would not follow a straight line.  If a man is a "one minute manager," he should avoid Sia.  However, if a man would like to take a convoluted  journey to a new world, she may be the woman. 

[GQBlues]

I'm in a sour mood (?) because...? a) I don't believe it's fitting for men to send women they have not met flowers to gain their favors? Or, b) because I commented on the post's context, much in the same manner people had towards those previous posters had in the past with those I mentioned?

Gator, it's good to know you feel enamored to a woman who possess such mood swings..honestly, I don't. I can't even begin to imagine having to live with someone like that for any duration of time e.g. JR's recounting of his experience with his ex-wife.

But, I am aware one man's hell is another man's heaven, no? Simply because we're on the opposite side of this spectrum doesn't easily classify me as someone with a sour mood, or is it really to you?

[Daveman]

This is a good example how a cute pair of legs can *affect* a person's honest perception. These free-wheeling self expressions had been exercised by the likes of Gothman, KevinN, and heck even Duke Maxwell...and look what happened to those dudes...

Taking the post solely in it's context, and at the risk of having to face an attacking band of avenging Lotharios, honestly to me it reads as though it came from someone who is either:

a) Moody, or
b) Self-Centered, or
c) Bi-Polar, or
d) Depressive, or
e) Manic-Depressive

Even the writer's associate is befuddled with the constant swing in state. Had anyone even noticed that?

I'm not really sure how a perception can be DIShonest, after all, it's a perception which is always colored with the brush subjectivity. Plus, I prefer dark-eyed brunettes. 

I don't disagree with you or JR... but I can't agree either. IMO, there's not enough information *for me* to understand if the post would be a portent of living hell or merely a metaphorical musing of a romantic dreamer.  I can't tell as the English involved in the majority of her posts, at least for my feeble mind, still requires more than a modicum of further translation as is the case with a person becoming more adept yet still grappling with grammar and the nuance of a second language.

She could be a complete wack job.  She could be the finest lady who ever lived. She's probably, like most everyone, somewhere in between. She could be a man posing as a woman to screw with everyone (figuratively of course, hopefully though, not somewhere in between on THAT one).  This could all be a dream and I'll wake up and wonder why in the world I had such a bizarre dream about RWD... What I don't really understand, is why is it necessary to seemingly go on the offensive?  It seems this thread is turning very personal very quickly.

Of those others you listed, I seem to remember the Goth guy who, IIRC, was writing of being suicidal in more than one post.  Yeah, I suppose the connecting extrapolation can be inferred, yet it's still a stretch. 

[Muzh]

Maxx, it seems to me that your perception of alpha males is a bit clouded by the fact that you're a man A lot of women are "easily attracted to alpha males", as you put it, not because they're rude and insensitive, but because they are confident, usually tend not to be scared by women's character, they are able to be around strong women without having complexes about it, and because you can count on them even in the situations which won't be very comfortable for them personally. So women who love them, do it not because of the disadvantages they have, but for the advantages which go with this package, and just put up with the disadvantages because everybody has them. But if there are only disadvantages left, who will possibly tolerate them? So being insensitive and rude isn't an alpha-male thing, and it doesn't attract women, being self-confident and brave - that's it

Oh, for the record - I didn't read the whole 6-pages topic, I just commented on this message, just in case there are some plot lines I'm missing here

I'll begin with you, Nat.

Amen to that.

Read what I wrote earlier.

Now to the others.

[Muzh]

This is a good example how a cute pair of legs can *affect* a person's honest perception. These free-wheeling self expressions had been exercised by the likes of Gothman, KevinN, and heck even Duke Maxwell...and look what happened to those dudes...

Taking the post solely in it's context, and at the risk of having to face an attacking band of avenging Lotharios, honestly to me it reads as though it came from someone who is either:

a) Moody, or
b) Self-Centered, or
c) Bi-Polar, or
d) Depressive, or
e) Manic-Depressive

Even the writer's associate is befuddled with the constant swing in state. Had anyone even noticed that?

So it would be more appropriate if she would be gulping down beers at the local bar asking for respect, is it?

Yes, I noticed she is a woman. If you prefer to be with the guys, by all means.

BTW, choice "b" aplies to what you wrote.

[Muzh]

I'm in a sour mood (?) because...? a) I don't believe it's fitting for men to send women they have not met flowers to gain their favors? Or, b) because I commented on the post's context, much in the same manner people had towards those previous posters had in the past with those I mentioned?

Gator, it's good to know you feel enamored to a woman who possess such mood swings..honestly, I don't. I can't even begin to imagine having to live with someone like that for any duration of time e.g. JR's recounting of his experience with his ex-wife.

But, I am aware one man's hell is another man's heaven, no? Simply because we're on the opposite side of this spectrum doesn't easily classify me as someone with a sour mood, or is it really to you?

Boy, so much anger.

First, if a man sends flowers to a woman he has never met has a million better chances that you to "score." Score one for the "pansy."

Second, Gator may or may not be enamored with her, however, he is being a perfect gentleman showing manners, which apparently have disappeared from this country. Your comments, to me, border on the misogynist.

Finally, you are NOT on the other side of the spectrum. This spectrum would relate on how to treat (as in show affection) a woman, not how to berate them. If you feel extremely comfortable in degrading the opposite sex, I'm not one to tell you how to change your ways. HOWEVER, do NOT try to convince others that women are garbage and should be treated as such.

I'm just waiting for the "Who me?"

[GQBlues]

I'm not really sure how a perception can be DIShonest, after all, it's a perception which is always colored with the brush subjectivity. Plus, I prefer dark-eyed brunettes. 

Rats! You're absolutely right about that, Daveman...maybe the dishonesty is in the manner in how each shared them? Sort of like the (dis)honesty behind every bouquet of flowers we give to women.

I don't disagree with you or JR... but I can't agree either. IMO, there's not enough information *for me* to understand if the post would be a portent of living hell or merely a metaphorical musing of a romantic dreamer.  I can't tell as the English involved in the majority of her posts, at least for my feeble mind, still requires more than a modicum of further translation as is the case with a person becoming more adept yet still grappling with grammar and the nuance of a second language.

She could be a complete wack job.  She could be the finest lady who ever lived. She's probably, like most everyone, somewhere in between. She could be a man posing as a woman to screw with everyone (figuratively of course, hopefully though, not somewhere in between on THAT one).  This could all be a dream and I'll wake up and wonder why in the world I had such a bizarre dream about RWD... What I don't really understand, is why is it necessary to seemingly go on the offensive?  It seems this thread is turning very personal very quickly.

Of those others you listed, I seem to remember the Goth guy who, IIRC, was writing of being suicidal in more than one post.  Yeah, I suppose the connecting extrapolation can be inferred, yet it's still a stretch. 

Of course we don't know Daveman. AFAIK, there isn't an injustice done towards Sia anymore than what was done for DJGothman and others. After all, comments made are pointed on posts shared anyway. We don't know any of them (personally) to any extent beyond these corridors anyway. However, DJGothman was hounded on multiple pages in his thread quite agressively IIRC. So far *I* made 'a' comment on one post in this thread.

So, what we have so far is, to some, Sia's post is a metaphorical musing of  a romantic dreamer, while DJGothman was a confession of a suicidal maniac.

So it would be more appropriate if she would be gulping down beers at the local bar asking for respect, is it?

Yes, I noticed she is a woman. If you prefer to be with the guys, by all means.

Sorry..I didn't hear the thumping of the chest and the yoddelling that comes after...

BTW, choice "b" aplies to what you wrote.

So just to reiterate, you're saying the post was written by someone likely to be self-centered, yes?

[GQBlues]

Boy, so much anger.

Dang...first I'm in a sour mood, next thing I have so much anger. Have you encroached the fight / flight sphere so early already?

First, if a man sends flowers to a woman he has never met has a million better chances that you to "score." Score one for the "pansy."

Second, Gator may or may not be enamored with her, however, he is being a perfect gentleman showing manners, which apparently have disappeared from this country. Your comments, to me, border on the misogynist.

Finally, you are NOT on the other side of the spectrum. This spectrum would relate on how to treat (as in show affection) a woman, not how to berate them. If you feel extremely comfortable in degrading the opposite sex, I'm not one to tell you how to change your ways. HOWEVER, do NOT try to convince others that women are garbage and should be treated as such.

I suggest you remove the froth out of your lips as it's starting to cover your eyes. Start paying better attention to what is being written. It will serve you better. LOL.

[Muzh]

Dang...first I'm in a sour mood, next thing I have so much anger. Have you encroached the fight / flight sphere so early already?

I suggest you remove the froth out of your lips as it's starting to cover your eyes. Start paying better attention to what is being written. It will serve you better. LOL.

But there's no froth. And my eyes were examined recently and my interpretation accumen is up to par.

I just have a little difficulty when men berate a female they haven't met for no apparent reason except that she's a woman. That's all.

No froth.

[GQBlues]

But there's no froth. And my eyes were examined recently and my interpretation accumen is up to par.

I just have a little difficulty when men berate a female they haven't met for no apparent reason except that she's a woman. That's all.

No froth.

Consult another doctor and get a second opinion, then. 

If anyone is 'angry', froth and all, in these exchanges hero, it isn't me   

[Muzh]

Consult another doctor and get a second opinion, then. 

If anyone is 'angry', froth and all, in these exchanges hero, it isn't me   

My little son is at a school play today doing the Wizard of Oz. His favorite character is the STRAWMAN.

[GQBlues]

My little son is at a school play today doing the Wizard of Oz. His favorite character is the STRAWMAN.

...and I will bet with a poppa like you to show him the ropes, he played that pretty role well, eh? LOL.

[SMS60]

I smell a masked troll

[Muzh]

I smell a masked troll

Dude, something smells bad and is not a troll.

Later boys, I'll see you tomorrow.

[Daveman]

Rats! You're absolutely right about that, Daveman...maybe the dishonesty is in the manner in how each shared them? Sort of like the (dis)honesty behind every bouquet of flowers we give to women.

are we really so dishonest? .. she knows I think they're a ridiculous gift. I honestly told her.  But that doesn't really go into the equation because they're HER gift, which would probably be better than giving her tickets to a Braves game.  Though the baseball tickets would be a more honest gift for me to give as I LIKE to give that, and really don't give a hoot about flowers. But of course, we're not talking preferences but rather impetus behind the gift... ok...  On special days, I honestly give them to avoid negative emotions and other such extraneous bs - if I'm not in a romantic kind of mood - and, that I remembered her, as well as the gesture makes her feel good. win/win.  I avoid bad/ she feels good - selfishness at its finest.  Or am I part of the PW crowd for not being more true to myself and then telling her to f'off if she's disappointed?    There are times I don't tolerate some things, even from a woman I adore, but I do know which battles to choose and which would be borderline insanity. This one would be meaningless for me but huge for her... so I succumb to PWness on that day for her sake.  On other days I surprise her because I want to make her feel good.  I have an expectation of her reaction because I do know her.  Yeah, that's different than trying to win a woman with gestures or throwing money at her, but still, I can understand a guy who is communicating exclusively (not having met) with one woman honestly wanting to give her flowers to both avoid disappointment and to make her feel good on a special day, or even surprising her for no reason (my personal favorite).  I'm in the camp of "it ain't really real until it's REAL", but hey, that's my opinion..

...However, DJGothman was hounded on multiple pages in his thread quite agressively IIRC. So far *I* made 'a' comment on one post in this thread.

This could be true, I don't actually remember, but I'll take your word on it.  I don't *think* the new moderator system had been put into effect at that time...

So, what we have so far is, to some, Sia's post is a metaphorical musing of  a romantic dreamer, while DJGothman was a confession of a suicidal maniac.

Interesting context, at least if you are referencing my post with "some" as my comments seem to be the only ones linkable to those phrasings. What I indicated are possibilities and that I personally don't know.  And I can't say whether DJGothman's posts were labeled as confessions of a suicidal maniac or not, but even if true that scenario is highly unlikely to be repeated under the current moderator system.

[Misha]

Taking the post solely in it's context, and at the risk of having to face an attacking band of avenging Lotharios, honestly to me it reads as though it came from someone who is either:

a) Moody, or
b) Self-Centered, or
c) Bi-Polar, or
d) Depressive, or
e) Manic-Depressive

Even the writer's associate is befuddled with the constant swing in state. Had anyone even noticed that?

Who is the writer's associate?

As for your multiple choice question, you forgot to include f) none of the above.

A simple explanation, quite often in Russia and the FSU, being highly poetic is valued. This is seen in seen in a variety of ways from some toasts given by older men or in the writings of young women on dating sites. Expressing a thought with great passion and wordplay is seen by some as a demonstration of their culture and education. However, when transferred to another context and translated into another language, it can easily be misinterpreted. 

[GQBlues]

Above and foremost, to me, this thread is aptly named...so I'm certain we are hardly out of topic here...I can only add, differences doesn't cut between genders only.

are we really so dishonest? .. she knows I think they're a ridiculous gift. I honestly told her.  But that doesn't really go into the equation because they're HER gift, which would probably be better than giving her tickets to a Braves game.  Though the baseball tickets would be a more honest gift for me to give as I LIKE to give that, and really don't give a hoot about flowers. But of course, we're not talking preferences but rather impetus behind the gift... ok...  On special days, I honestly give them to avoid negative emotions and other such extraneous bs - if I'm not in a romantic kind of mood - and, that I remembered her, as well as the gesture makes her feel good. win/win.  I avoid bad/ she feels good - selfishness at its finest.  Or am I part of the PW crowd for not being more true to myself and then telling her to f'off if she's disappointed?    There are times I don't tolerate some things, even from a woman I adore, but I do know which battles to choose and which would be borderline insanity. This one would be meaningless for me but huge for her... so I succumb to PWness on that day for her sake.  On other days I surprise her because I want to make her feel good.

I believe, having had the chance to discuss this on that other thread, we largely agree more on this matter than otherwise. So maybe further elaboration of points in this matter is moot.

 I have an expectation of her reaction because I do know her.  Yeah, that's different than trying to win a woman with gestures or throwing money at her, but still, I can understand a guy who is communicating exclusively (not having met) with one woman honestly wanting to give her flowers to both avoid disappointment and to make her feel good on a special day, or even surprising her for no reason (my personal favorite).  I'm in the camp of "it ain't really real until it's REAL", but hey, that's my opinion..

...and this is where we slightly depart with our opinions. Going into that specific thread, a question was posed as to what was appropriate for the cause. If anyone took the time to read and digest that thread it isn't difficult to note two of the 'more' informed posters regarding this day and it's customary observation (not including the ladies for obvious reasons of course) are Chivo - who lives IN Russia, and Mendeleyev, who is about as native as one can get. Both, offered their opinions and, for all intent and purpose, both were largely ignored, or offerring unheeded.

This could be true, I don't actually remember, but I'll take your word on it.  I don't *think* the new moderator system had been put into effect at that time...

Interesting context, at least if you are referencing my post with "some" as my comments seem to be the only ones linkable to those phrasings. What I indicated are possibilities and that I personally don't know.  And I can't say whether DJGothman's posts were labeled as confessions of a suicidal maniac or not, but even if true that scenario is highly unlikely to be repeated under the current moderator system.

I didn't mean to infer you're a representative of the 'some' although I understand how you can take it like that. My bad. FWIW, it's more pointed at the likely masses who had, or may, take an exception to my take on things.

I'm not sure why emotions evoke so easily in this venue (MOB). Like differences in opinions are often times construed as an attack in their wisdom, or worst, manhood. dunno. It's been said fight/flight syndrome is the first sign of old age. Considering the average age involved in this saga, that's likely true.

In the specific post I quoted, reading it for the way it was posted, I stand behind my original comment. Despite knowing that ducks that fly out of line are often times the ones that get shot, so quack...At least I'll get bucked with nary a brown stain upon my nose.

[GQBlues]

Who is the writer's associate?

...One friend of mine told me. Yulia  *you are foolish*,you do not see how lucky you are ... You're a clever young and beautiful, you have no children, no responsibilities, and live for your pleasure and receive pleasure, even in bad times because I just felt something you live . And I can not live the same way.Ineed to worry about someone, I need to strive for something to someone, grow, change, love and give love ... God, how am I tired

[tim 360]

I do not belong to the category of women who see this as a product of propaganda of feminism. On the contrary, a wonderful book, wonderful story, not soap snot, but a reality such as it is, rather was sorry. For myself, I learned a different lesson than the situation with the choice A-man.For my revelation was another, better today than yesterday and tomorrow will be better than today. Faith, hope, love-the three main pillars that can change a person beyond recognition and turn your home into a real kitten lioness If the question of the protection that is so valuable, such as close friends and family.
There is another truth, written by Mitchell, but it is more profound in content and I would not like to write about it on forume.Mnogie can join the debate and to distort the meaning.

Sia,  Thanks for clearing that up.  I feel much better now.  These revelations?  Are they frequent?   

[Shostakovich]

Ya, this is bound to be popular -- a lady in the men's room: I've seen how that normally goes here.  Good luck.

Shosty shoots, and scores!