Expensive gift question...

[Daveman]

33-20 not an overwhelming age gap, but she almost certainly has much growing up yet to do. 

and now, you need to sacrifice a chicken to the Goddess of Fortune... so that she doesn't use that computer to find you here.  :evil:

That would probably spawn some interesting posts on her RW forum! 

[Faux Pas]

I am 33, I live in Milan.
She told me about him from the first days we met. How? The mobile phone rang and they spoke on the phone. She was very cool, I couldn't see a sign of special talk. Plain talking with man using also a cool voice (I could hear). They spoke in English, I got surprised. I asked her, she told me it was a friend she met before me, he is now back in Australia, they exchange emails and he calls her once a week over skype at her mobile...
Just a friend... But I was curious. So every time we met, I asked her if she still communicates with him and she said yes, he is only a friend for me, it's not bad to communicate with him etc. I indirectly asked her to stop communicating with him and she refused like I ask her to stop talking to a real innocent friend...
All days I were in Kiev and she was in Milan, she didn't have any strange calls...
After I met her mother and after she told me about the gift, she eventually told me that she would stop next day communicating with him. She assured me in a way that I believe she did so.
Here is my understanding so far: she either is a very bad person doing very bad things, strange behaviours, lies etc that I can't grasp or control OR she is a rather good person (nobody is perfect...) that received a strangely expensive gift from a person that aims to have some action with her next time he visits Ukraine...
 

She is aware (no pun intended) that to him, she is much more than just a friend. She may tell you something different and even believe it herself to a degree but, the brass tacks is Ozzie dude likely isn't hanging around because they became such good friends. He is in the picture in more than a casual friendship way. Have you spoke of or talked about any long term plans with this err (I use the term lightly) woman?

[awarerwd]

I don't think she is a member here..
And instead of discussing this with friends that will always know something I maybe regret I let them know in the first place, it's better for me and her to discuss this with e-friends that also have some understanding of Ukr culture...

[GoodOlBoy]

Here is my understanding so far: she either is a very bad person doing very bad things, strange behaviours, lies etc that I can't grasp or control OR she is a rather good person (nobody is perfect...) that received a strangely expensive gift from a person that aims to have some action with her next time he visits Ukraine...

Ciao awarerwd!

First....thank you for not being a 60 year old man (who thinks he looks 45 ) chasing 20 year old FSUW.

Me personally, I think you probably deserve better than either of the 2 scenarios you described above, BUT...It is up to you to decide how much cr*p you will tolerate in a relationship (and with 18-20 year old girls, you are going to get a lot of immature of cr*p).

You obviously have a good deal of money and emotional feelings invested in this "relationship", which makes it even harder to walk away.

It would be very interesting to know how she really feels about you (where is "Muddy" and his "keylogger program" when you really need him? ). http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=9640.msg189599#msg189599

All I can say at this point is keep your eyes open and if something seems wrong, it probably is.

Good Luck!

GOB

PS....Don't make excuses for Bad Behavior.

[Steamer]

She told me about him from the first days we met. How? The mobile phone rang and they spoke on the phone. She was very cool, I couldn't see a sign of special talk. Plain talking with man using also a cool voice (I could hear). They spoke in English, I got surprised. I asked her, she told me it was a friend she met before me, he is now back in Australia, they exchange emails and he calls her once a week over skype at her mobile...
Just a friend... But I was curious. So every time we met, I asked her if she still communicates with him and she said yes, he is only a friend for me, it's not bad to communicate with him etc. I indirectly asked her to stop communicating with him and she refused like I ask her to stop talking to a real innocent friend...
All days I were in Kiev and she was in Milan, she didn't have any strange calls...
After I met her mother and after she told me about the gift, she eventually told me that she would stop next day communicating with him. She assured me in a way that I believe she did so.
 

It sounds like she kept her options open until she got a commitment from you. She doesn't sound like the most tactful person on the planet but she didn't lie.

[awarerwd]

Have you spoke of or talked about any long term plans with this err (I use the term lightly) woman?

We have talked about long term plans and we are both discussing seriously about having some future if we try first to live together for a rather long period of time... We started talking about this after she received the gift (from what she tells me) but she announced to me the strange gift after I met her mother and asked about the laptop (but as I said she could stay with her initial answer which wasn't true)...

It sounds like she kept her options open until she got a commitment from you. She doesn't sound like the most tactful person on the planet but she didn't lie.

BTW, this guy is married so what open options? Also (so many details that need clarification) she said to me that when they met for 2 days, she didn't know he was married because she lied to her. But she found out later when he sent a picture with his wedding ring visible by mistake... All these were information given to me at our first meeting which was for both of us more like a "first and last meeting ever"...

All these weird complications exhaust my mind, if you can understand me...

[Daveman]

BTW, this guy is married so what open options? Also (so many details that need clarification) she said to me that when they met for 2 days, she didn't know he was married because she lied to her.
...
All these weird complications exhaust my mind, if you can understand me...

ah HA! and the thot plickens!

a married transgender prevaricating hermaphrodite!  I knew this would get really interesting!!  :evil: :evil:

Man, really... just relax and let it be. Date the girl and see where it goes from here. Press the reset button, cast out the internal demons, shed ANY colored glasses (rose or poop) and view the progress from this point with normal "aware" eyes. You're still in the early phases anyway, during the time where you are learning about each other.  What have you learned so far?  As someone once said to me - just keep that information in your back pocket for future reference if necessary. 

[Lily]

 I asked her why she told me, she said "consciousness"...  

Now I am confused after reading that  

Sometimes I heard that Russian speakers try to use verbatim Russian words in order to tell something in English. In real situation, she may want to reply the question 'why' with a Russian 'Сознательно' = [consciously] which would mean 'purposedly', like 'I told you this with a purpose'. In this case, the Gator's interpretation about her hint for you to top that gentlemen on spending may be right.

In case the word 'conscience' was used, then I just don't know what a person may mean by using it in that place...

[Steamer]

BTW, this guy is married so what open options? Also (so many details that need clarification) she said to me that when they met for 2 days, she didn't know he was married because she lied to her. But she found out later when he sent a picture with his wedding ring visible by mistake... All these were information given to me at our first meeting which was for both of us more like a "first and last meeting ever"...

All these weird complications exhaust my mind, if you can understand me...

Wow, these are details that change the picture.
If you knew at the first meeting that things were not good why are you still persuing this woman?

[tim 360]

I don't think she is a member here..
And instead of discussing this with friends that will always know something I maybe regret I let them know in the first place, it's better for me and her to discuss this with e-friends that also have some understanding of Ukr culture...

She can read here without being a member and so can he....did you say that he's married?  Hey,  maybe HE is a member here?

ps:  Maybe she is smart enough to tell you they did not have "sex" because she probably rightly thinks that could possibly be a dealbreaker.

[Misha]

Here is my understanding so far: she either is a very bad person doing very bad things, strange behaviours, lies etc that I can't grasp or control OR she is a rather good person (nobody is perfect...) that received a strangely expensive gift from a person that aims to have some action with her next time he visits Ukraine...

The problem is that many (most?) enamored men, in spite of all evidence to the contrary, will convince themselves that the first type of woman you described is really the second type and will then wonder why she "changes" at some point down the line....

[Muzh]

I would like to know who on this forum has ever sent any money to Ukraine hidden in a card and the money got there. Chances against the money getting there are astronomical.

Also, a 20 yo girl getting a big chunk of money from a stranger??
And you are still asking questions?

[tim 360]

I would like to know who on this forum has ever sent any money to Ukraine hidden in a card and the money got there. Chances against the money getting there are astronomical.

Also, a 20 yo girl getting a big chunk of money from a stranger??
And you are still asking questions?

Or just how does one HIDE $600 in a postcard from OZ to Ukraine?  Maybe a greeting card in an envelope?  Maybe 6 $100 bills?  I dunno.  I'm trying to think of a guy just putting $600 into the UA mail system and thinking it will arrive intact.  I hate to say this but sometimes one little lie leads to another little lie and soon things are pretty obvious.  This girl is probably not very skilled at lying--so thats a good point.

[Jumper]

I would like to know who on this forum has ever sent any money to Ukraine hidden in a card and the money got there. Chances against the money getting there are astronomical.

Also, a 20 yo girl getting a big chunk of money from a stranger??
And you are still asking questions?

There are a lot of possibilties..
to me it wouldn't be worth the effort.


As mentioned the odds that she is telling you the entire truth now seem slim to me.

1. sending $600 USD in a card through the postage isn't something the man would naturally do?
If he has money to send her, he would far more likely used another method . its not likely she'd receive it otherwise and most rational people would worry over that.
 It really doesn't matter how she received the money from him ,but it bothers me that the story she came up with seems contrived or unlikely.

2. Its more than likely he wants to stay in the picture ,
and likely believes he is still in the picture, he could be imagining it,
but it seems likely she is allowing him ,or even encouraging this thought in him.

3.she got $600 in the mail   then instead of buying just *anything* ,or using it for living expenses,   she bought a laptop. Allegedly  this was his intent for the money?
If so this would seem a very typical thing to do if they together wanted to communicate further,and its not very likely as "only friends".
Its extremely unlikely he sent her money, explicitly for buying a laptop,
 for her to communicate with you better.
Her acceptence of the money and following through in purchasing the laptop ,
to me shows she wanted to communicate with him and keep her options open.
Not  a bad thing at all,
 but it would depend on the timing of when you felt you two were exclusive

4. some random photo he sent with a wedding ring doesn't mean much at all,
 he could be married , it could simple be an older photo.
from her stories so far, as presented ,I would  believe less than half..lol
generally i'm a trusting person ,there just seems t be a lot of oddness and muddy water.

She could with details, by now,
 have made the situation clear to you ,she hasn't.
She knows it would be  a concern ,and if she was going to bring it up at all , i'd think she would explain it better,, and certainly not be surprised if you asked her to break communication off with him
You were not asking her to ditch some long term male friend , this was a man she hardly knows

For a 20yo ,the situation does seem typical though if it's any consolation.
My guess is she told you to engender a little jealousy,or to see if you cared enough to be jealous.
 
  Overall it isn't an unusual situation to have a few suitors , or  a man to have a few women he is pursuing in the initial scenarios.

Only you know where you feel you stand as a couple now, and then.
 

[awarerwd]

All these are VERY valid concerns and the issue is not something you can sleep with easily.
I have lost my sleep many nights now and for me the most annoying thing is not being able to assemble a puzzle, even a not pleasant one...
Also the 600 dollars in a post card is a fool's move, I agree but again if it's a lie why then she didn't tell me that he sent by let's say western union?
Also the laptop was sent to her to help with her studies because even after she got hold of it, she still sent emails from mobile phone since she didn't have internet.....

You are suspicious, you are worried, imagine me...

In case the word 'conscience' was used, then I just don't know what a person may mean by using it in that place...

She showed me in dictionary the word conscience as a meaning in English of a word she wanted to use in Russian, if this may be of any help...

[JR]

Hi all,
I often visit this great place to get knowledge about Rus/Ukr girls but now I need to ask something that is a headache for me for a long period of time...
So the story goes like this:
My Ukrainian girlfriend (5 months relationship, Italy-Ukraine, 32 days being together only...) told me to my surprise that a guy from Australia (that according to her: she met him for 2 days before I meet her and with whom she had a little affair BUT didn't have sex) sent her two months ago 600 dollars hidden in a post card so she can buy a laptop she needed...
My worry, my headache, my problem is: Why on earth someone sends such a big amount to a girl so far from him?...
BTW, I suspect he isn't a millionaire but again 600 dollars is big....

All answers are more than welcome...

He's fat, ugly and old? She young and hot?

[Gator]

I have lost my sleep many nights now and for me the most annoying thing is not being able to assemble a puzzle, even a not pleasant one...

To lose sleep over a small mystery suggests that you really love this woman.  Does she know the depth of your feelings? 

As this story unfolds, my guess is that a) she does not know you love her or b) she knows but is not feeling "big love" for you.   

I hope it is not the latter, yet I believe sadly that is the case because I don't have any experience with RW who mention other men.  How does she treat you? 

My experience with a mature RW in love is that you will know it.   She will claim you like a miner filing a claim on a gold deposit he discovered.  Every day she will remind you of her love in words, tender touches and actions.   A 20-yo RW would be even more demonstrative IMO,  behaving as if she were in "crazy teenage love."   And a RW wants to be reassured of your love.   She does not want to think there is another woman, and she will become very upset if you mention another woman, even from the past.   It follows that she will not mention other men, even those from the past.

Every RW is different and I am sure that there are some RW who are more reserved.  And of course some of their behavior depends on how you behave.  Awarerwd, you do not have to answer this post.  Yet please think about it and your situation.

[Gator]

In case the word 'conscience' was used, then I just don't know what a person may mean by using it in that place...

She showed me in dictionary the word conscience as a meaning in English of a word she wanted to use in Russian, if this may be of any help...

Wiki definition:  "Conscience is an aptitude, faculty, intuition, or judgment of the intellect that distinguishes right from wrong.... In psychological terms conscience is often described as leading to feelings of remorse when a human does things that go against his/her moral values...."   A person with a conscience will do what is right even though no one will ever know if he/she did something wrong.  Having a conscience means you could not sleep at night if you wronged someone.

Lily, is there a Russian word for such noble  integrity?

[SANDRO43]

I am 33, I live in Milan.

Ciao concittadino, lassa stà, l'è propri minga giűsta .

[Lily]

Wiki definition:  "Conscience is an aptitude, faculty, intuition, or judgment of the intellect that distinguishes right from wrong.... In psychological terms conscience is often described as leading to feelings of remorse when a human does things that go against his/her moral values...."   A person with a conscience will do what is right even though no one will ever know if he/she did something wrong.  Having a conscience means you could not sleep at night if you wronged someone.

Lily, is there a Russian word for such noble  integrity?

Suppose "благородство" (appr. 'noble intention') or "великодушие" ('generousity') if someone using Russian-English dictionary would want to express meanings that you mentioned.

'Сознательность' that would also come to my mind would probably be used by Russian people who use verbatims in a different context, not the one described here.

[Gator]

Suppose "благородство" (appr. 'noble intention') or "великодушие" ('generousity') if someone using Russian-English dictionary would want to express meanings that you mentioned.

'Сознательность' that would also come to my mind would probably be used by Russian people who use verbatims in a different context, not the one described here.

If I understand this correctly, awarerwd's UW used an English word (conscience) in its correct context, yet the word has no Russian counterpart.  That sugggests she is very competent in English.  Perhaps she continues to talk with the man from Oz simply to practice with a native English speaker.  If so, it is harmless fun with no romantic drama.  She is young and exploring the world.

I find it interesting that there is no Russian counterpart to conscience.  Integrity is close in meaning to conscience.

[Aloe]

  No no no, of course there is a russian counterpart: СОВЕСТЬ.

[Aloe]

I am 33, I live in Milan.
She told me about him from the first days we met. How? The mobile phone rang and they spoke on the phone. She was very cool, I couldn't see a sign of special talk. Plain talking with man using also a cool voice (I could hear). They spoke in English, I got surprised. I asked her, she told me it was a friend she met before me, he is now back in Australia, they exchange emails and he calls her once a week over skype at her mobile...
Just a friend... But I was curious. So every time we met, I asked her if she still communicates with him and she said yes, he is only a friend for me, it's not bad to communicate with him etc. I indirectly asked her to stop communicating with him and she refused like I ask her to stop talking to a real innocent friend...
All days I were in Kiev and she was in Milan, she didn't have any strange calls...
After I met her mother and after she told me about the gift, she eventually told me that she would stop next day communicating with him. She assured me in a way that I believe she did so.
Here is my understanding so far: she either is a very bad person doing very bad things, strange behaviours, lies etc that I can't grasp or control OR she is a rather good person (nobody is perfect...) that received a strangely expensive gift from a person that aims to have some action with her next time he visits Ukraine...
 

Am i the only one with alarms going off TWICE while reading this one post?
It is ok to ask to stop communiating with him if you are mutually exclusive, i suppose, BUT !!! It is never ever ever ever ever ok to try to control someone, is that what you want, someone to control?

[Aloe]

Now I am confused after reading that  

Sometimes I heard that Russian speakers try to use verbatim Russian words in order to tell something in English. In real situation, she may want to reply the question 'why' with a Russian 'Сознательно' = [consciously] which would mean 'purposedly', like 'I told you this with a purpose'. In this case, the Gator's interpretation about her hint for you to top that gentlemen on spending may be right.

In case the word 'conscience' was used, then I just don't know what a person may mean by using it in that place...

I find it difficult to believe that you don't know what is meant by conscience  Perhaps a quick check with lingvo is in order http://lingvo.yandex.ru/conscience/%D1%81%20%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B3%D0%BB%D0%B8%D0%B9%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%B3%D0%BE/
She told him because her conscience was telling her that it's wrong to lie, what could possibly be unclear about that?  

[Aloe]

I am 33, I live in Milan.
She told me about him from the first days we met. How? The mobile phone rang and they spoke on the phone. She was very cool, I couldn't see a sign of special talk. Plain talking with man using also a cool voice (I could hear). They spoke in English, I got surprised. I asked her, she told me it was a friend she met before me, he is now back in Australia, they exchange emails and he calls her once a week over skype at her mobile...
Just a friend... But I was curious. So every time we met, I asked her if she still communicates with him and she said yes, he is only a friend for me, it's not bad to communicate with him etc. I indirectly asked her to stop communicating with him and she refused like I ask her to stop talking to a real innocent friend...
All days I were in Kiev and she was in Milan, she didn't have any strange calls...
After I met her mother and after she told me about the gift, she eventually told me that she would stop next day communicating with him. She assured me in a way that I believe she did so.
Here is my understanding so far: she either is a very bad person doing very bad things, strange behaviours, lies etc that I can't grasp or control OR she is a rather good person (nobody is perfect...) that received a strangely expensive gift from a person that aims to have some action with her next time he visits Ukraine...
 

So on your very first meeting she already told you that she met this guy before you. So it's not like she is meeting with 2 guys at the same time. Unless she lied to you in advance that she already met him while she still had yet to meet him, which i doubt. So chances are, she is telling the truth that she met him before you, so she isn't sleeping with 2 people at once. So relax and stop trying to control her.