Fascinating excerpt from The Exile

[groovlstk]

For the past week, I've been reading The Exile, a book written by two American men who launched an alternative newspaper with the same name in Moscow. I highly recommend it to anyone looking to understand Russia and Russian women.

Here's a very mean-spirited but funny excerpt from the book about the difficulties American women face when they move to Moscow because of their jobs:

All American women, and practically all the European women, are socially and sexually devastated by Russia. They're at a massive disadvantage for the first time in their lives. They didn't expect it at all. None of us did… Eventually, all the expat women abandon this city bitter and frustrated, deeply Russophobic and devoted to the Brzezinskian doctrine of containment and dismemberment of the Russian beast… because sexual strategies that they have been used to employing cannot compete against the Russian dyevushki. 

For Russian girls, the stakes in sex are pretty simple: money, and/or self-destructive adventure. When American women try to tell their Russian sisters that they have it all wrong, that in fact they're being oppressed and demeaned, Russian girls invariably assume that the amerikanka is a frustrated spinster. Dyevushki value the surface far more than deluded Americans. They judge each other by how beautiful they look, how much makeup they wear, how high their miniskirts are cut… under those criteria, any American feminist's ethos is immediately undercut. Russia's a tough crowed, tough crowd. [A feminist from Canada] told me, after a doomed tour of Moscow and St. Petersburg, that Russians were "primitive" and "hopeless." The feminists' main problem is that they were marketing a less attractive alternative to the wildly flawed but never-boring local sexual narrative. For Russians, there is no greater sin than a boring, safe life. Everything else is negotiable. 

I don't know of a single American couple who came to Russia together and didn't split apart after six months. Nearly every Westerner who comes here--male and female--is shocked by the beauty factor. It takes awhile for the brain to trust the eyes. I started dating my expat girlfriend, Suzanne, about a month after I moved to Moscow. Then she left for Belgium, and when she returned to Moscow a year later, she didn't like the new me. I used to be shier and clumsier. I was more likable before. Expat women like my old girlfriend get hit with a double-whammy of bad luck in Moscow. First, they're physically outclassed by the Russian girls; and secondly, the Russian men are slouched, pasty, unkempt, and in most Western women's eyes, the ugliest men in Europe. And yet… even the Russian men don't want expat women. Which leaves--exactly no one wanting expat women. That's right: no one.

In order to survive, American women in Moscow try to adapt. Some start pouring on makeup and dressing slutty, but somehow that makes them even more pathetic. They survive by casing certain expat-only bars where they prey on fresh-off-the-boat expat men who don't speak a word of Russian--they're the only ones with whom she has a chance of building a relationship. Many just give up, focus on their jobs, sock away the hot dough, and return home to America where she's back in the driver's seat. She's comforted only by the fact that when Biff shows up at JFK passport control, he's going to have an ego-slashing time readjusting to America's dry, flat, sexless narrative. It's just one way that Russia, pretending to be overrun by the West, is quietly poisoning it's "conqueror." The same way that other "conquerors"--Sweden, France, Germany--limped out of here squeaking in shock, emasculated forever.

We published an article in the Exile spelling out these unpleasant truths. To this day, nearly the entire female expat community won't talk to us.

 

 

[KenC]

Wow!  What a great read!  Thanks for sharing!

KenC

[Photo Guy]

[size="3"][color="navy"]Groov, that was excellent. Where can I get more?
[color="black"](Doug, go to the bottom of this page:
http://www.exile.ru/  ....$11 at Amazon)[/color]

It all makes sense and reaffirms how desirable RW are. (Is a Fiancee listening?) This really struck a chord with me:
[/color][/size][size="3"][color="navy"][color="blue"]'For Russians, there is no greater sin than a boring, safe life. Everything else is negotiable.' [/color]
Now doesn't that also characterize the guys who venture out into that world, searching for the ideal RW?[/color]
[/size]

[jb]

Ho Hum,,, I read the Exile all the time... :D:D

[coco]

So we have a commun point:)

[andrewfi]

If you actually read the Exile, particularly from the days when the piece was written, you would see that what the Americans (and often foreigners in general) are revelling in is simply bad behaviour - the knowledge that they can buy what they could not attain before. Most Russian men would not behave in the same way as most Americans do when let off the leash. This is not a reflection of Russian womanhood, except in so far as that which they will (or did) accept than the boorishness of the men who met them. The picture painted is/was accurate, but perhaps some readers here got the wrong end of the stick.

What many Americans, but not the writers if Exile, I think, did and do is revel in what they see as freedom, the freedom to be 'naughty'. Russian guys treat women differntly to American expat or visitoing guys in that the Russian men know the rules and do not see anything wrong in certain types of relationship. Russian guys treat women, even as they objectify them, with respect. Teh American guys, becasue they make a moral jusgement, even when they decdie to break their inbuilt rules, do not treat the women with respect. Ther is a huge difference.

Fortunately things are changing and have changed a lot, but the incomers have yet to catch on to the new situation.

THe status of expat women is difficult in most palces inthe world, becasue around the world, there are manby more men than women as expats and in most places the guys behave the same as they do in Russia. The expat women are marginalised, one sees this all the time. I do not agree with the writers that all American women are ugly and unpleasnat, I have met too many who are not to agree, but whe nthe guys are in the US, they do seem to bottom feed, but then they do in Moscow also. In Moscow, poor stupid women are thin, in America they are fat.

[Photo Guy]

[size="3"][color="navy"]Andrew, the authors of the eXile are meant to be read in a spirit of humour and irony. They are irreverent. It's a mistake to view the material in the same way that you would read a dry textbook.

In my opinion this is a bone-headed generalization about AM and RM:
[/color][/size][/b][size="3"][color="black"]'Russian guys treat women, even as they objectify them, with respect. Teh American guys, becasue they make a moral jusgement, even when they decdie to break their inbuilt rules, do not treat the women with respect. Ther is a huge difference.'[/color][/size][size="3"][color="navy"]
Maybe too much vodka?  -doug[/color][/size][/b]

[KenC]

'Russian guys treat women, even as they objectify them, with respect. Teh American guys, becasue they make a moral jusgement, even when they decdie to break their inbuilt rules, do not treat the women with respect. Ther is a huge difference.'

Andrew,

I understand and agree with the first part here regarding RM and their respect for RW.  At least in the beginning of a relationship.  But I have to disagree with your assessment of AM.

I am sure there are some AM that take the sensual nature and sexually stimulating attire of a RW in a disrespectful way, but I am also quite sure that the majority of AM just respectfully accept that this is just normal behavior for a RW.  I have seen too many AM try in vain to explain that although RW dress in a much more seductive manner and are more open minded to sexual ideas than what is typical here in America, they are not necessarily sluts or low class women.  Give us a little credit for being able to indentify that the standards are just a little different in Russia than America.

KenC[/size][/font]

[andrewfi]

The article was written about a particular group of men. Please read it and what I wrote then perhaps a fuller understanding will take place.

[KenC]

Andrew,

Perhaps you should re-read what you wrote because you address Americans through out your post without specifying American expats.

KenC

[Oosik]

Actually, the most slutty men that I have seen over there have not been AM, they have been Brits. LIke someone said, it is too easy to fly over for a weekend pissup. Maybe Andrew can take a break from his anti-american rants and discuss the behavior of his own countrymen.

It seems Andrew is advancing the argument that ammoral men treat women with more respect than moral men do. Do we live in bizzaro world? I know we all don't like it when people pretend to be moral holy rollers and then we hear about them getting caught in bed with hookers or whatever, but don't use those examples to slam the majority of Christians who try to do right and be right, and feel that there are certain codes to live by that improve the human condition. That's better than to be one of the many who figure that would cut into their fun, and prefer everyone turn a bind eye to their failings, selfishness and depravity in the name of "not judging".

Psychology moment:
People who are hyper sensitive to value judgements or people with morality usually just know they could not bear examination. When you find a group of people who join in to condemn those with morality or clear values, it is just a version of a mutual-admiration club. They have an unspoken agreement to shield each other from judgement, because they know when they judge themselves they find themselves wanting. The think they can keep the secret from getting out. Lately, it seems many of them are so desperate that in order to keep Christians from judging them, they even defend Islamic extremism, hoping the muslims will keep Christians so distracted that we won't have time to scrutinize them.

[latstaley]

If you actually read the Exile, particularly from the days when the piece was written, you would see that what the Americans (and often foreigners in general) are revelling in is simply bad behaviour - the knowledge that they can buy what they could not attain before. Most Russian men would not behave in the same way as most Americans do when let off the leash. This is not a reflection of Russian womanhood, except in so far as that which they will (or did) accept than the boorishness of the men who met them. The picture painted is/was accurate, but perhaps some readers here got the wrong end of the stick.

What many Americans, but not the writers if Exile, I think, did and do is revel in what they see as freedom, the freedom to be 'naughty'. Russian guys treat women differntly to American expat or visitoing guys in that the Russian men know the rules and do not see anything wrong in certain types of relationship. Russian guys treat women, even as they objectify them, with respect. Teh American guys, becasue they make a moral jusgement, even when they decdie to break their inbuilt rules, do not treat the women with respect. Ther is a huge difference.

Fortunately things are changing and have changed a lot, but the incomers have yet to catch on to the new situation.

THe status of expat women is difficult in most palces inthe world, becasue around the world, there are manby more men than women as expats and in most places the guys behave the same as they do in Russia. The expat women are marginalised, one sees this all the time. I do not agree with the writers that all American women are ugly and unpleasnat, I have met too many who are not to agree, but whe nthe guys are in the US, they do seem to bottom feed, but then they do in Moscow also. In Moscow, poor stupid women are thin, in America they are fat.

 

 

Andrew, I think you would possibly have more credibility if your home page didn't have articles with titles such as "How to find other swinging couples in the UK". Granted, I'm just an unenlightened American rube that doesn't possess your rapier wit, but I am under the impression that wife swapping is not well respected in any corner of the Globe. In fact, I would guess that it underlies a real lack of respect for your spouse if you would ask her to go along with such behavior.

[Bruno]

Andrew, I think you would possibly have more credibility if your home page didn't have articles with titles such as "How to find other swinging couples in the UK". Granted, I'm just an unenlightened American rube that doesn't possess your rapier wit, but I am under the impression that wife swapping is not well respected in any corner of the Globe. In fact, I would guess that it underlies a real lack of respect for your spouse if you would ask her to go along with such behavior.

Yeeek :hairraising: Latstaley, you really search the details... the site of Andrew is a news feed with various article... from various author... and in these case, the author is a woman ( Julia )

When you buy a usual magazine, you have article over everything... some can speak about relationship problem between homosexual... this don't make the owner of the magazine someone who promote homosexuality... the goal is give information for the more people...

If you take a look, you can find some interesting article for people of these forum :

Dating Women From Russia. Important Tips The Marriage Agencies Never Tell You : http://www.this-way.org/content/view/311/31/

Russian Brides - Who Are They? : http://www.this-way.org/content/view/387/31/

In my case, i have like the too much short section over gardening

 

 

[latstaley]

I realize that is a link to a news feed, Bruno. I also realize it was written by what appears to be a woman. That doesn't change the fact it is still an instructional article for finding other people that share a sexual fetish. I'm far from a person that claims to hold the moral high ground. I wouldn't, however, endorse that type of life style.

 

I have also seen people that had home pages with various links to articles that were written by a member of the North American Man Boy Love Association or NAMBLA and another that had an informative article for people wanting to use steroids for bodybuilding. I can't endorse either one of those activities, either.

[TigerPaws]

 Over the years I have only met 2 American women who were working in Russia, both were in their late 20's or early 30's, both were fairly attractive but by no measure beautiful. I would say the both women were typical professional American business women, well educated, intelligent and independent, they were also single and found out very quickly the local Russian men would have nothing to do with them.
 
 While I had only limited contact with these women over the year they were stationed in Moscow from what I understood they worked 14 hours a day socking away the cash because their social life outside of the office was all but nonexistent, they simply could not attract the local men for anything other than a one night stand.
 
 The article in the Exile paints a fairly accurate picture of what American and in most cases western European women face while working in Russia.

[Admin]

Over the years I have only met 2 American women who were working in Russia, both were in their late 20's or early 30's,both werefairly attractivebut by no measure beautiful. I would say the both women were typical professional American business women, well educated, intelligent andindependent, they were also single and found out very quickly the local Russian men would have nothing to do with them.

While I had only limited contact with these women over the year they were stationed in Moscow from what I understood they worked 14 hours a day socking away the cash because their social life outside of the office was all but nonexistent, they simply could not attract the local men for anything other than a one night stand.

The article in the Exile paints a fairly accurate picture of what American and in most cases western European women face while working in Russia.

Just goes to show - there are ALWAYS exceptions to every rule.

Some here may remember 'Amerikanka' from the P-L board. She is an AW who worked in Ukraine and developed a great love for the country. She met a UM and they married, are living in the Detroit area (KenC gave her some restaurant recommendations IIRC), and have a baby.

I also am closely connected to an AW who spend about half her time in Ukraine for her business. She was previously an ex-pat there working for American MNC's. She does just fine with the local guys.

FWIW

- Dan

[dostogirl]

and when she returned to Moscow a year later, she didn't like the new me.

Mmm..very pathetic...but true. Russia is a male-oriented society and, as far as I know, a lot of foreign men there turn into " a Russian guy" in a way. Something that definitely won't attract me, but I can see how nice it is for an American man to live in Russia.. Makes me laugh when I read articles like that. Somewhat similar to articles about foreign guys going to Asia, divorcing their American wives because Asian girls are so much more "feminine"..C'mon, guys.. 

[TigerPaws]

 I can see how nice it is for an American man to live in Russia.. Makes me laugh when I read articles like that. Somewhat similar to articles about foreign guys going to Asia, divorcing their American wives because Asian girls are so much more "feminine"..C'mon, guys.. 

dostogirl,

 What you fail to understand is that in (very) general terms a man will not be looking to replace his current wife if he is happy with her and their relationship. On the other hand if there are problems with the relationship and a man has the ability to attract a prettier, younger, nicer and more compatible woman then why not dump the old bag for a better newer model?

 Lets be honest dostogirl in general men age better than women and if over time the woman has let herself go (become fat and no longer interested in keeping up her appearance) or has simply become an ugly old bag then like anything else in life why not trade up to a newer and nicer model?

 You say "C'mon, guys" I say so what such is life.

 

[Bruno]

Lets be honest dostogirl in general men age better than women and if over time the woman has let herself go (become fat and no longer interested in keeping up her appearance) or has simply become an ugly old bag then like anything else in life why not trade up to a newer and nicer model?

True if you have marry a body without any feeling... when you consider a woman like a object that you use and drop when it is used...

But don't you think that serious relationship between human is something more that only the body side... on the biologic side, men age not better that women... men begin age more early that women... unfortunaly, women begin age very fast after menopause, due to the change in hormone... it is a natural process, not a reason to drop your "ugly old back"....

Seem that you are in very romantic mood the day before St-Valentin...

 

[KenC]

Bruno,

Oh how "metro-male" of you to think in such ways!  And just how has "wearing your heart on your sleeve" been working for you so far?

Although Tigerpaws may be too blunt for your sensitivity, he does speak the truth.  The only thing I would question is that aging is more acceptable on men, and not that they age better.  But that is a small difference of opinion.:dude:

KenC

[Bruno]

Wedding vows are promises made by the bride and groom to each other during a wedding ceremony. In Western culture, these promises have traditionally included the notions of unselfishness ("love, comfort, keep"), faithfulness ("forsaking all others"), unconditionality ("for richer or for poorer", "in sickness and in health"), and permanence ("as long as we both shall live", "until death do us part").

Never forget that a marriage is not a business act and will never be... it is promise between two partner for share a life... people who already think about reason for divorce before problem appear are people who are ready to break promise, people without honor... money can allow you to BUY a wife but all money of the world cannot buy honor... you win it by your act...

Really, i am not surprised of the high divorce rate in our western country... the fact that people are ready to divorce at the first minor problem is one of the explanation...

 

[KenC]

KenC

[TigerPaws]

[color="#0000ff"][size="4"]Bruno,[/size][/color]    [color="#0000ff"][size="4"]

 Ah! Romance is wonderful and all too  often over rated, life is short so why not get the most out of life as is  possible, if a relationship is working for you then by all means stay with it  but if things are not going well and you are unhappy why should you suffer?  [/size][/color]   [color="#0000ff"][size="4"]

 Bruno I know a very respectable  gentleman who's wife of 10 years had a blood vessel break in her head (aneurysm)  which left her brain dead, yet her body continued to function, she could be fed,  have her diaper changed and cared for, the body was there but no one was home  anymore.
 Now tell me Bruno what would you do? Stay married or get a  divorce and move on with your life?

 Things in life change, people change and as I said life is to short to be unhappy, things happen and sometimes it is better to cut your losses and move on to bigger and better things.
[/size][/color]

[dostogirl]

What you fail to understand is that in (very) general terms a man will not be looking to replace his current wife if he is happy with her and their relationship. On the other hand if there are problems with the relationship and a man has the ability to attract a prettier, younger, nicer and more compatible woman then why not dump the old bag fora better newer model?
Lets be honest dostogirl in general men age better than women and if over time the woman has let herself go (become fat and no longer interested in keeping up her appearance) or has simply become an ugly old bag then like anything else in life why not trade up to a newer and nicer model?

There are two who make the relationship happy. So if your relationship fails, it's not only your wife's fault, cos she just didn't use make up or gained weight.. I am truly upset about your point of view. Through a lot of posts of yours I get the idea that you care more about woman's body then the rest of the person. But, it's for you to live your life like that.
As for reasons why AM leave their wives for RW while living in Russia, I do not think that using make up, wearing sexy clothes, etc. has a lot to do with that. I see a lot of AW here who dress well, wear make up and generally look much better than RW. I think the problem is much deeper and has to do with power in most areas of our life.  I have seen a lot of similar cases while living in Asia. I knew some AM who had great wives: they looked (and were) young, they dressed wll, they used make up, were great housewives, but...those AM would leave them for Asian girls saying that Asian girls are much more fminine...I think it's total BS...They just use this reason in most cases to cover up the real problem: power..

[TigerPaws]

There are two who make the relationship happy. So if your relationship fails, it's not only your wife's fault, [color="red"][size="3"]There are ALWAYS two sides to every story![/size][/color] cos she just didn't use make up or gained weight.. I am truly upset about your point of view. [color="red"][size="3"]Ok you see the word differently, I am a realist and in a relationship for my happimness, if I become unhappy with the course the relationship is going then it is time to leave and try something different, you do not have to like it but that is the real world dostogirl.[/size][/color] Through a lot of posts of yours I get the idea that you care more about woman's body then the rest of the person. [color="red"][size="3"]Yes it is all part of the package body and mind if either goes bad it is time to move on. [/size][/color] But, it's for you to live your life like that. [color="red"][size="3"]While you might want to believe I am different than other men you are sadily mistaken.[/size][/color]
As for reasons why AM leave their wives for RW while living in Russia, I do not think that using make up, wearing sexy clothes, etc. has a lot to do with that. I see a lot of AW here who dress well, wear make up and generally look much better than RW. I think the problem is much deeper and has to do with power in most areas of our life.  [color="red"][size="3"]Ok so what is the problem, if the man is unhappy for any reason why should he stay in a relationship?[/size][/color] I have seen a lot of similar cases while living in Asia. I knew some AM who had great wives: they looked (and were) young, they dressed wll, they used make up, were great housewives, but...those AM would leave them for Asian girls saying that Asian girls are much more fminine...I think it's total BS...They just use this reason in most cases to cover up the real problem: power.. [color="red"][size="3"]Again so what is the big deal if the man wants to be in control no one said the woman has to stay or that the man must share power, if either peoson does not like the relationship they are free to go elsewhere.[/size][/color]
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