Advice for The Natural

[The Natural]

After reading around here I am very impressed by the level of experience some of you have, the ability to offer advice and willingness to help those that ask for advice.

So if it`s alright, I would like to have my own tread here where I ask for advice and opinion as I progress in my search for a woman.

First, a little about what I`m looking for. I am quite aware that the more limitations I put on the women I want to pursue, the less is the number to choose from. But I would rather not compromise too much because that makes it less likely to succeed over time. I`m talking about finding a woman for mutual love and respect and marriage for the rest of my life (I suppose I will die before she does  )

I admit that the first thing I look at on the profiles are the photos. That`s just the way men are and I am a man. So appearance is important to me. I don`t go for model looks but she has to be attractive to me at the risk of breaking rule no. 6.

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?pid=2

I have other criteria that must also be met, like: no children or children grown up, must speak and write good english, have a profile with at least a few sentences, be willing to get to know each other by e-mail for a while before meeting.

It is still very early in the process but I have a profile at Elena`s Models. So far I have received a few messages of interest. Most of them I have declined for different reasons. I have sent messages of interest to some and most were declined. But there is one woman from Ukraine that I have written to daily. She writes very good English, is lovely and intelligent. We are now corresponding via e-mail, later on Skype as soon as get it installed. I also got another letter, a very long one,  from a lovely woman, I wrote her back but haven`t yet received an answer. So to put it short, there is one, possibly two women that stand out for me.

Now, I know that people advise one to write to many women to begin with. I like to write long letters and get to know a woman well and with the limitations put, I won`t get a lot of requests either. My age is also a factor here (46).

So what kind of advise would the seasoned here give? There is also the dilemma that most women do not wish to keep on a correspondence too long because it so often comes to nothing in the end. I can understand that. But at the same time I have to make sure that I`m doing the right thing before visiting her.

[Misha]

The same advice that I gave you in the other thread. I would advise you not to limit yourself to Elena's but also try to a free Russian dating site: http://www.singles.ru Caveat emptor: Russian dating sites are a numbers game. The prostitutes and women looking for sponsors should be easy enough to avoid, but you will have to send out large numbers of messages and winnow down the women who do answer to a manageable number.

I, personally, would seek out women from the Russian North. Women from cities such as Murmansk, Arkhangelsk and Vorkuta will have a much easier time IMHO adjusting to life in the Arctic than women from southern Russia or Ukraine. 

[The Natural]

I went to that site yesterday Misha. Was contacted by a black girl from Bronx!

[Misha]

I went to that site yesterday Misha. Was contacted by a black girl from Bronx!

Generally, I was a bit more cautious with the women who contacted me  You have to be the one sending hundreds of messages to women if you are going to be successful 

[Faux Pas]

Roy,

You want what you want. You have a criteria for the ladies at your starting point. That is not a bad thing by any means but, it is limiting. My only suggestion to you is at this point don't get in a rush to "find a woman". Write to and respond to the women that interest you be that just the 1 Ukrainian currently or add another 6 or 12. Don't try to force anything into happening. WOVO guys tend to be drawn to one woman. If that is your case communicate with her until you just can't wait to meet her, then go visit. If you are communicating with several or many and many are interesting and none pull you away from the others you may do a WMVM. There are other variations and likely you'll figure those out as well. Go at your own speed.

The pretty pictures are nothing more than flags that get your attention. Chances are great that even though you like a woman's photo, she'll be nothing in person as you perceive her on that first sight. Keep that in mind. You've already traveled this road and your instincts are much more in tune than many who come asking questions. Go with those. Good luck.

[The Natural]

Thanks for that, wise words. But what does WOVO and WMVM mean?

No, I won`t rush it too much. But a trip in August sounds appealing. Also as a combined vacation and getting away for a while as I haven`t done that in 7 years!!!

[SANDRO43]

Thanks for that, wise words. But what does WOVO and WMVM mean?

When stumped by our acronyms or other mysterious terms, have a look at the RWD Glossary in the Main Menu at top left .

[The Natural]

When stumped by our acronyms or other mysterious terms, have a look at the RWD Glossary in the Main Menu at top left .

Oh, thanks, that`s brilliant. You guys think about everything don`t you!

[Muzh]

Roy,

You want what you want. You have a criteria for the ladies at your starting point. That is not a bad thing by any means but, it is limiting. My only suggestion to you is at this point don't get in a rush to "find a woman". Write to and respond to the women that interest you be that just the 1 Ukrainian currently or add another 6 or 12. Don't try to force anything into happening. WOVO guys tend to be drawn to one woman. If that is your case communicate with her until you just can't wait to meet her, then go visit. If you are communicating with several or many and many are interesting and none pull you away from the others you may do a WMVM. There are other variations and likely you'll figure those out as well. Go at your own speed.

The pretty pictures are nothing more than flags that get your attention. Chances are great that even though you like a woman's photo, she'll be nothing in person as you perceive her on that first sight. Keep that in mind. You've already traveled this road and your instincts are much more in tune than many who come asking questions. Go with those. Good luck.

+1

Good advice for such an old babushka. 

Thanks for that, wise words. But what does WOVO and WMVM mean?

W = write
O = one
V = visit
O = one

W = write
M = many
V = visit
M = many

[Daveman]

Oh, thanks, that`s brilliant. You guys think about everything don`t you!

Yep, and argue about every aspect thereof(s) 

 

Good luck!

[BC]

My only suggestion to you is at this point don't get in a rush to "find a woman". Write to and respond to the women that interest you be that just the 1 Ukrainian currently or add another 6 or 12. Don't try to force anything into happening.

Roy,

Listen to these very wise words.

I come from the camp of che sarą, sarą.

Look at the beautiful nature around you.  All took time but little effort on your part.  Look at this venture more as an extension of your horizons and not one you try to make yourself.

You will succeed more by natural attraction than you will with construction.

Hobbies, interests, dreams.. chase them anywhere on this planet and you will find like minds, maybe one interested in a bit more.  The venue does not have to imply marriage.. instead it's all about exposure.

[GoodOlBoy]

Hey The Natural.

GOB is the new guy here, so I can't add much to what has already been suggested.

However, I do have one suggestion, try to read BillyB's thread if you can and do not (under any circumstances) follow any of his advices.

Good Luck!

GOB

[Muzh]

I come from the camp of che sarą, sarą.

Is that Italian?

The one I know is Que serį, serį

[The Natural]

Roy,

Listen to these very wise words.

I come from the camp of che sarą, sarą.

Look at the beautiful nature around you.  All took time but little effort on your part.  Look at this venture more as an extension of your horizons and not one you try to make yourself.

You will succeed more by natural attraction than you will with construction.

Hobbies, interests, dreams.. chase them anywhere on this planet and you will find like minds, maybe one interested in a bit more.  The venue does not have to imply marriage.. instead it's all about exposure.

Natural, that`s me, hehe. But yes, this advice makes perfect sense to me. I think Im more of that WOMO type or perhaps not that extreme. But I feel like I can`t do justice to the women or myself if I write to too many. I want to know as much about the women as possibly before visiting and also let them know all they want of me. I just don`t see how that is possible if one keeps on a correspondance with dozens of women.

I will not press the issue, just let our correspondance develop naturally. By the way, the other of the two women just wrote me. Both of my two favourites are nice and smart ladies close enough to my age. They are 38 

[BC]

Is that Italian?

The one I know is Que serį, serį

I think Sandro will be able to set us straight.. LOL

Proper Italian might be 'Quello che sarą, sarą'

Sadly I have never really 'mastered' a language.. I just use (or maybe better, abuse) them.

[BC]

I will not press the issue, just let our correspondance develop naturally. By the way, the other of the two women just wrote me. Both of my two favourites are nice and smart ladies close enough to my age. They are 38 

At least something in common.. look for more.  As disparate as these relationships tend to be, the more interests and goals you have in common, the better IMHO.

Keep your feet on the ground; think above the belt line and you'll do just fine.

[I/O]

Nothing wrong with seeking attractive, nobody wants to wake up with a "pig". I would drill down on the English thing to be sure they are writing by their own hand and not using translators of some sort. If they are and you wish to continue, keep your letters short. It's seriously hard work figuring out letters in another language you aren't confident with. Furthermore, whilst I've always been an advocate of the "written" method of developing the initial stages, it has been with the caveat of having visited these parts of the world first. I would very strongly urge you to pack a bag and go for a visit, even a few days, meet one or two of these pen friends and then reflect. You'll be way better prepared for the real deal and...............if you can't afford (time or money or both) a "spare" trip , you're wasting your time with the whole process.

[The Natural]

Both of the women are actually English teachers among other things. It`s amazing how well educated many of these women are.

I will go and visit if things proceed well. But not just yet, need to know and trust them completely first. But then it is the question of who to visit if I have several women I really like very much.

[Aloe]

I really hope that kind of romantic behavior works out for you (writing only to one you've never seen before). Personally after having wasted years writing to only one guy at a time, building illusionary relationships in my mind, only to have the guy never come over to visit(in spire of repetitious saying they will, and never doing so), after that i find writing to one person at a time a waste of time. And deluding yourself into thinking you are actually getting to know a person while there is a million things you will not and cannot possibly find out while corresponding and even talking in real time over a distance is also a waste of time. Easy for me to say, but it really seems to be so, that as soon as you establish basic compatibility of world outlook, interests and future plans, it's best to meet in real life as soon as possible, without wasting any time on further correspondence.

[SANDRO43]

Proper Italian might be 'Quello che sarą, sarą'

Or Sarą quel che sarą .

[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9h8fKXcnlQ&feature=related[/youtube]

Che sarą, sarą is an adaptation from the ungrammatical Spanish (should have been Lo que sea serį) used in Alfred Hitchcock's 1956 film The Man Who Knew Too Much:

[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZbKHDPPrrc[/youtube]

[I/O]

need to know and trust them completely first.

Virtually impossible to do that remotely without knowing their surrounds.

[The Natural]

I really hope that kind of romantic behavior works out for you (writing only to one you've never seen before). Personally after having wasted years writing to only one guy at a time, building illusionary relationships in my mind, only to have the guy never come over to visit(in spire of repetitious saying they will, and never doing so), after that i find writing to one person at a time a waste of time. And deluding yourself into thinking you are actually getting to know a person while there is a million things you will not and cannot possibly find out while corresponding and even talking in real time over a distance is also a waste of time. Easy for me to say, but it really seems to be so, that as soon as you establish basic compatibility of world outlook, interests and future plans, it's best to meet in real life as soon as possible, without wasting any time on further correspondence.

Thank you for your input. Your experience was from the woman`s perspective though. I understand that many write and write with guys and they never visit. I can`t speak for others than myself though, and if I say I will visit, then I will visit. If not, I will say so. It`s just a value that I have, never to consciously lie. Of course the women can`t know for sure and I will not keep on a correspondence for too long before making a decision.
One can never really know a person totally by writing or talking. How can one, as I don`t even know everything about myself. But what I mean are the basics, different areas I want to know about before visiting.

[Patagonie]

Aloe is right, for a lot of woman, those who are experimented (one or two years of international dating) they are reluctant to spend their time to write letters.
In fact serious things begin as the western guys are in the town. They show therefore that they are real.
I met one who had met dozens and dozens (hundred and hundred ?) guys and even being in her town she was very picky.
The problem is physical chemistry. Nothing, so far, can give you answer about this issue.
You need to live it and to date.
I have done a sort of WMVO last summer in sweden. I lost three days and money. No regrets i did what i wanted. But i don't really to start again such way.
Things are simple, chances that you have a physical chemistry with her is no more than 1 or 2 chances per 10. And for her the same... (depends on how you are attractive, it's the way to work to enhance her attraction)
Patagonie.

[chivo]

I will go and visit if things proceed well. But not just yet, need to know and trust them completely first. But then it is the question of who to visit if I have several women I really like very much.

Just to add to what Aloe and I/O have said. Don't wait until you're positively sure with tons of emails and phone conversations, etc.

These women like to move quickly in a relationship IMO, so your best bet is to go and see a few ASAP once you've established that they are real, then proceed from there. Yes, take your time to be as sure as possible before taking the plunge (marriage), but don't take your time in meeting a few who you think have potential. You do live in Norway which gives you a big advantage over most.

Remember, they can also visit you quite easily after you meet and further establish the relationship.

I would very strongly urge you to pack a bag and go for a visit, even a few days, meet one or two of these pen friends and then reflect. You'll be way better prepared for the real deal and...............if you can't afford (time or money or both) a "spare" trip , you're wasting your time with the whole process.

Bingo!

Natural I'll take this time to welcome you to the board. I know you've been through an unpleasant situation already, so learn from that experience. I think you have.

Couple of things, your age is fine, stop thinking you're too old for this. I would lower my age limit to 30 and would even consider 28 depending, just to give you a wider playing field and increase you numbers game with women without kids. Many I've talked to in the 28-35 age group consider 46 to be acceptable, even if it's at the back end of their limit. This is especially true in the areas Misha recommended or similar areas throughout Russia/FSU.

I know you can't change who you are completely, but I think we all evolve over time. You are no doubt a very nice man, I get the feeling maybe too nice . I would suggest a little more edge to yourself if possible. A little more forceful with your suggestions to them. A man with a plan that includes them.

I'm of the mindset that lasting chemistry builds over time, even though it does have to be there initially. And much of that has to do with the man being what they call a "real man". One who knows what he wants and will go after it...strongly and firmly, but fair. FYI, this doesn't mean being a jackass or jerk, well OK sometimes

Good luck, I think you'll do fine this time around.

[Aloe]

Thank you for your input. Your experience was from the woman`s perspective though. I understand that many write and write with guys and they never visit. I can`t speak for others than myself though, and if I say I will visit, then I will visit. If not, I will say so. It`s just a value that I have, never to consciously lie. Of course the women can`t know for sure and I will not keep on a correspondence for too long before making a decision.
One can never really know a person totally by writing or talking. How can one, as I don`t even know everything about myself. But what I mean are the basics, different areas I want to know about before visiting.

The purpose of my post was to point out HOW many women may feel. Because there are so many (I'd go as far as say 90-99%) male liars out there, the women may not really perceive you as serious unless you visit. The other jerks are ruining it for the honest men. There are tons of guys who simply chat and build dream castles over the internet, preying on women, while a real actual relationship is the farthest thing from their intentions