Advice for The Natural

[Misha]

Others mistakenly make a VO trip and don't meet "the one" on that trip...  but so what!  Hopefully your trip will be inspired by something other than just meeting a woman for marriage.

Treat it like a holiday...  

+1. Kuna is right, given that you can take a short trip to Ukraine, even if the first date flops, you can enjoy yourself and see all the tourist sites in the country on your own. There is more to any country than the women you can date 

[The Natural]

In your shoes I would go to Crimea simply to enjoy the nature there ,
and with many single women around, if you are open ,friendly , willing to chat a few up , you should have a good time regardless!
If more reserved, then you can contact someone like board member Jack,
who can get you in touch with some reliable agencies  and interpreters in most any area of the FSU.
(and certainly anywhere in Ukraine)

AJ, thank's for the beautiful photos. Yes, as you and others here say, if it doesn't work out, I can still have a nice time in these beautiful surroundings.

[The Natural]

The Natural, it seems to me relationship is such an individual thing for everybody! Things which work for some men and women don't work for others. Some people need long correspondence, some want to jump into the relationship at once. Why would you ask for any advice at all - you are an experienced person in this stuff yourself! Yep, your marriage finished in a divorce. Nevertheless, without any advice you were able to find a woman, marry her, have a decent life with her and even breaking up, still manage to end everything on good terms. My advice would be not to try to follow some stated schemes or rules, but just to be yourself, have a correspondence as long as you need to get to know a person, do everything in a moment when you feel like it, not when somebody thinks it's right - and you'll be able to find a woman who is your real match.

Yes, I must of course at the end of the day decide for myself what the best course of action is. But it is interesting to hear what other's think and there are differences of opinion. And even though I have done this once before, maybe I can pick up some points that I haven't thought of before, something that can save me a lot of problems.

[The Natural]

Your community way up there is not going to be attractive to most. It's a fact that you're going to have to seriously think about. Even the women that would think they'd love it, in retrospect after coming to live there, may realize that very far north, small community lifestyles just aren't for them. Even down here, way, way down south of you close to Oslo, we know of RW that come here from mid to south Russia and they find it "boring" and cold. One RW/WM couple we know is planning on emigrating because of her dislike for the climate.... So, although you may be very lucky finding someone further south I would think you would increase your chances by looking to the Northern regions.

Yes, it's a good point and something I will explain the her as good as I can. Must first visit her and if we hit it off, she will have to come here for a visit to see if this is a place she can settle down in. If I decide to go to the Crimea, it will definetely be a good place for us to go on summer holidays to, in the future.

[Muzh]

Hi Roy. I see you've been busy preparing for your quest. That's excellent.

The last few advices (Nat and Kuna) are spot on. Years ago I asked many questions and received many different answers. I took only one advice; do what comes "natural" to you. I broke every rule in the book but it just felt right because I got to know my wife through emails and phone calls (about 10 months before we met). That there were women more beautiful than my wife? Well, yes in the physical sense. However, we managed to link emotionally and spiritually. Still today, she is the most beautiful woman I've ever been with.

Enjoy your quest. For me, it was worth all the money in the world.

[The Natural]

Hi Roy. I see you've been busy preparing for your quest. That's excellent.

That there were women more beautiful than my wife? Well, yes in the physical sense. However, we managed to link emotionally and spiritually. Still today, she is the most beautiful woman I've ever been with.

Enjoy your quest. For me, it was worth all the money in the world.

Thanks Muzh, good feedback. Yes, although it is very interesting to see what other people say, and the opinions vary, at the end of the day (as the British always say), I will follow my own "instincts or feeling" or whatever one like to call it. And take responsibility for my own actions.

Just to give a small update of my quest so far, 10 days into it. Not much new has happened as of women writing in response to my add at Elenas Models. Some have declined my interest, some I have declined and some others that I wrote back to have not responded. I have a pretty detailed profile where I tell about myself and what I can OFFER.

I have done that consciously because I want to save time and effort for me as well as ladies who otherwise would perhaps be interested but who would not be comfortable living so far north and/or in a small place. The ladies don’t want time-wasters and neither do I.

The interesting thing is I have deep contact with one of them, the very first to contact me. She interested me at once, both her profile and her looks. We write to each other daily, several times daily often, and she write me back sometimes sooner than I expect. She’s not insistent or impatient in meeting me though, quite the contrary. In my ordinary stupid direct way of acting, I asked her if she wants to meet me. She replied she was surprised of such a question so soon and asked if I’m always this impulsive  She had thought about an eventual meeting but wanted us first to talk via Skype. She had mentioned before the importance of talking live so as to see the mannerism and so on. (I have ordered a high quality web-camera). I also made another mistake in sending her a photo of me bare-chested. She wondered why I did that. I said because of what I told her about my training and that I am dieting to lose bodyfat. She replied that women there never talk about such things and certainly not to men. If they have a problem, they solve it, she said. You gotta love that answer! That is CLASS and so natural.

Meanwhile we e-mail each other, not long letters but we ask each other questions about our lives. I can very clearly see that this is a woman who is intelligent and interested in who I am and if I’m right for her. She is not desperate to get away in any way, to find just anybody. She also ask the “hard” questions. She’s the real deal and I respect her for it.

Now, some of you might say I’m not contacting enough different women. Maybe so. But my personality is what it is and I can’t focus on too many things at once and that is as far as I know a typical male trait anyway. So my thinking at this point is I will go with this woman and talk with her live to see what happens. I will continue my add but am quite content to not be approached by many beautiful young women where it all runs out in the sand anyway. But what do I do if my contact with this woman continues to go great AND another great woman comes along and we get a similar report? Well, per now that is not an issue and I’m very content with writing to and receiving e-mails from my woman from the Crimea.
 
Perhaps I can get her to agree to visiting her. If it should go south for whatever reason, I will then make it a good holiday, get some sunshine and perhaps meet interesting people there. One thing’s for sure, I can really need to get away from the daily routine now. I’m sick and tired of all the snow 

[Aloe]

Hey Tha Natural, sounds like you found someone great, good luck
Now that you brought it up, i feel i have to tell to all the men around here: Do not send your topless photos if you were not asked for them Unless you look like this :


Otherwise, it's plain weird suddenly getting topless pics of strange men (after a week of talking you are still strangers)    But if you look like above, then by all means, do not be shy to send some. Send me some too, for aesthetical pleasure  

[AsH]

Real men have hairy chests


Metro men dont.

Who's with me?

[Aloe]

Real men have hairy chests


Metro men dont.

Who's with me?

Who cares about hair? It's about the muscles, silly

http://blogs.coventrytelegraph.net/thegeekfiles/Chris%20Evans%20topless.jpg

[AsH]

Righto.

good i cant stand these women who want skinny emo boys.

[chivo]

Well Aloe, I hope you were kidding about sending photos of himself EVEN if he looks like that. I think it would be strange regardless of one's muscles. Would you really think it normal for any guy to send you photos like this? Would you think you were the only one he was sending them to?

A woman will find out sooner or later and I think most can tell if you're in pretty good shape with your clothes on.

Yes, I must of course at the end of the day decide for myself what the best course of action is. But it is interesting to hear what others think and there are differences of opinion. And even though I have done this once before, maybe I can pick up some points that I haven't thought of before, something that can save me a lot of problems.

Natural the more you post the more level headed you seem. Of course it comes down to you and not doing things like spending more money than usual and such, but I think it's rather shortsighted to say that "just being yourself" is the only advice you should take.

You have received some very good advice from SeriouslyJaded, FP, Muzh and others that can help you at the "end of the day" that has nothing to do with just being yourself.

I think that all you've been through and what you're learning now will bode well in the future. Good luck going forward.

[Aloe]

Well Aloe, I hope you were kidding about sending photos of himself EVEN if he looks like that. I think it would be strange regardless of one's muscles. Would you really think it normal for any guy to send you photos like this? Would you think you were the only one he was sending them to?

A woman will find out sooner or later and I think most can tell if you're in pretty good shape with your clothes on.

Hey, a body like that requires consistent very hard work, i don't blame them for wanting to show it off a bit Although if you send a pic in a t-shirt it will also show. It's not a big deal if he sent it to other women. It's not like topless is something shocking. you go on a beach minimum topless and maximum in a swim pants and you show even more that way. Do you get annoyed knowing other men saw your woman in a bikini? No biggie, imo

[AsH]

If she genuinely is interested in you your body type wont be her biggest concern.

[Aloe]

If she genuinely is interested in you your body type wont be her biggest concern.

Nobody saying it is. I'm saying don't send unsolicited topless pics unless you are a hunk And if you are, then there is no harm in showing off a little bit.

[chivo]

I have no problem with guys or gals wanting to show off their bodies if they have put in the work. Yes it takes hard work, but I was talking about receiving a photo like that from a guy whom you just met on the internet with the possibility for romance leading to marriage. I'm sure there exceptions, but I think most women would have second thoughts about a serious relationship even if they enjoy the photos.

After you meet and get to know each other, no problem for sure. Maybe at that time she's already seen the merchandise and wants more to keep the memories fresh

Of course I don't care if other men look at my woman in a bikini. Unless they're gawking at her like vultures circling a carcass, I would take it as a compliment to my good taste. Not sure if I would feel the same way if she were sending photos of herself in a bikini over the internet to strange men though.

And yes I often go topless at the beach .

[The Natural]

I find it rather strange to see the word "topless" about men. For me, topless means a woman without her top or bra on. It's not important, but for me a man barechested is nothing. Many do it in the summer all the time. A topless woman is different though, that's just the way it is.

Being bottomless in a photo in such a circumstance however, would of course be very ille advised 

[Muzh]

The interesting thing is I have deep contact with one of them, the very first to contact me. She interested me at once, both her profile and her looks. We write to each other daily, several times daily often, and she write me back sometimes sooner than I expect. She’s not insistent or impatient in meeting me though, quite the contrary. In my ordinary stupid direct way of acting, I asked her if she wants to meet me. She replied she was surprised of such a question so soon and asked if I’m always this impulsive  She had thought about an eventual meeting but wanted us first to talk via Skype. She had mentioned before the importance of talking live so as to see the mannerism and so on. (I have ordered a high quality web-camera). I also made another mistake in sending her a photo of me bare-chested. She wondered why I did that. I said because of what I told her about my training and that I am dieting to lose bodyfat. She replied that women there never talk about such things and certainly not to men. If they have a problem, they solve it, she said. You gotta love that answer! That is CLASS and so natural.

Meanwhile we e-mail each other, not long letters but we ask each other questions about our lives. I can very clearly see that this is a woman who is intelligent and interested in who I am and if I’m right for her. She is not desperate to get away in any way, to find just anybody. She also ask the “hard” questions. She’s the real deal and I respect her for it.

Hey Tarzan 

Consider this regarding skyping. I would postpone the videochat until much further in your conversation. From what you described of this lady, I think it would work on your favor, both. Let her form a visual of you based of your conversations and you do the same. I can guarantee you that, unless she is a dog, picks her nose, stink, etc., mannerisms won't matter much. As a matter of fact, the visual you have of her and vise versa will become more appealing.

History is on my side of this explanation. Unfortunately we live in an era of instant gratification and we are losing our social skills.

Just my two Řre

[Jumper]

Well, here is one of many cases you'll get conflicting advice.
 


I'd always ,move to skype as soon as both are comfortable doing so.
It's much closer to an actual meeting experience than simply text or calls.
It doesn't make anyone a social retard to meet people in person as opposed to only writing or calling them , and if video/phone would hurt your chances, then they wernt much to begin with.

to try and build upon a fantasy of some "visual",  hoping its strong enough to overcome the reality ,instead of just seeing the reality , seems odd to me.

In my current situation one of the key elements was seeing those mannerisms,
they made a big impact.(in  a very positive way)
 As example: While you can tell on the phone when someone is in a good mood or not , or smiling or laughing, it is different in video where you can see not only when they smile ,but how ,, and they can see your reactions as well.

I'm not saying skype the first day ,
my point is once both have been speaking ,and are comfortable they should progress,
not hold back to keep  their "minds image " of  that person to build up things.


everyone has a different approach..
mine is to keep it as close to more natural dating as possible,,
considering the logistics.
Video is a tool to do so.

i wouldn't speak  on the phone for 3 months with some local woman to meet her.. she'd either want
to meet in a week or two, or we shouldn't bother.

Just because the commute  is longer, I personally try not to   change things.
I've never went to meet someone that i dint want to meet in the first 2 weeks,
and would have done so,and have.
its just  a date, a rather  long commute for one ,but neither of you know before  meeting,
you might build some " images " that turn out to be true , or they can be a wash in 10.3 seconds.

 Follow up communication may confirm you *want* to spend a week with them
or more , rather than a date,
and i think men with limited vacation often rely on this for a sense of security in not wasting their valuable off time.
It's a vetting process that would be done in person domestically,
 so i attempt  to keep that as close to natural as possible as well.

We are all different, if I lived as close as the natural does , I would go as soon as both felt they
were on the same page and wanted to meet,even if it as just a *day date*.
Granted i wouldn't be planning spending a week or two with her, it would just be a date , like  any local date.
To be blunt, if this women lived in his town, she'd either want to meet already, or there would be little point in pursuing.
The only reason either of them are vetting it further is the perceived investment of time together being more than *just dinner*.
 
Nothing wrong with that at all, but recognize it for what it is?
Circumstantial behavior built upon logistics.
It's removed from the normal *boy meets girl*, and i'd try to keep it as close to that in any means possible,video is just one tool to do so..
In the long run i think it wastes less time for both parties.

[The Natural]

Consider this regarding skyping. I would postpone the videochat until much further in your conversation.

I'm afraid that is not possible. Just now she wrote and said that she have learned a lot about me in such a short time. But that is just the first step, she wrote, now we must talk on Skype to see if f we want to move forward.

Just my two Řre

Wow, you impress me here 

[Patagonie]

In such a case, if she lives not so far from you, it's better to plan a short travel of  3 or 4 days no more (time travel include).
If possible with a backup plan.
In the worst case you will be free after one hour and you can visit and relax in her town.
You will not expense too much time (keep your precious vacations) and too much money let's hope the cost of the ticket is not too expansive.
Without indiscretion, where does she live ?

[The Natural]

Without indiscretion, where does she live ?

In the Crimea area. So I might very well go there in the summer for a vacation, even if the contact with her fails.

[Patagonie]

In the Crimea area. So I might very well go there in the summer for a vacation, even if the contact with her fails.

good it will be not too expansive.
So you can schedule one week. But in this case you must prepare as soon as you are sure to go backup plan.
Good agencies
And contact girls you like three weeks before : i'm coming, may we meet ? Here my little introduction (or contact them directly in the town).

[Jumper]

I'm afraid that is not possible. Just now she wrote and said that she have learned a lot about me in such a short time. But that is just the first step, she wrote, now we must talk on Skype to see if f we want to move forward.

I feel she's right. relationships  should progress, not stagnate.
 Like they should in person.

skype/video seems just  a natural progression from where you started from,
and she is quite typical in expecting things to progress towards that,
 many RW will do similarly.

[Speedbump]

I think Skype is a wonderful way to progress the relationship. I would add one other point. With Skype you can see in person and how she responds. You will see if she is focused on you and the conversation or if she is bored and distracted. Also look for body language to see if she is physically attracted to you. Does she play with her hair or jewelry? Does she give you coy looks?

Skype gives you many visual clues that you cannot get from letters or phone calls.

Congratulations! It sounds like you have found a sincere woman and I wish you well in your search.

[Aloe]

Also look for body language to see if she is physically attracted to you. Does she play with her hair or jewelry? Does she give you coy looks?

Lol i had a laugh at that one. It's a camera. Very many women will be VERY conscious of what they are doing in front of it and how they look doing it, 100% of the time. You do not do that in real life cuz you cannot see yourself from a side in real life, but when your image is projected in front of you live, as you speak, you WILL be 1000 times more conscious