Elena's Models.... Are they the "lessor of all evils" in the search?

[FredC]

I think that she is talking about Zoosk.com which is affiliated with facebook.

[Jack]

Dave, I find Russia is not so American friendly, not so foreign friendly. The Russian police, unlike the Ukraine police, have no problem screwing with American men.  Having to get a visa, not so big a deal, but you just can't go to Russia anytime you want like you can Ukraine, because you have to have a visa to enter Russia.  Anytime you want to go, tomorrow, in three days, in three weeks, anytime you want to go to Ukraine, you go. 

Myself and most guys going to Russia prefer to stay in flats, and moving around, different cities. Having to register within 72 hours, not counting weekends, in each city, in each city, well, it's another thing that takes time, takes money, and another reason for the Russian police to stop us.

I would still be going to Russia if their were guys wanting to go. So few men are traveling to Russia, so few have interest to go, compared to the men wanting to go to Ukraine, that from a business point of view Russia's just not so cool today.  I was the last American tour company that took men to Russia. AFA, Anastasia, stopped taking men to Russia sometime ago.  Why?  Not enough interest from enough men. 

I have replaced Moscow for Kiev.  If you know anything about Kiev, Khershatyk, look at where I spend a good portion of the year. The view from my flat.

 

[Jack]

 

[ML]

The view from my flat. 

Jack, it seems most of those photos are from the post office side of the square. But then one is looking toward post office . . . so not all a 'view from your  flat' right?

[Jack]

But then one is looking toward post office .

......  and my flat.

[chivo]

Dave, I find Russia is not so American friendly, not so foreign friendly. The Russian police, unlike the Ukraine police, have no problem screwing with American men.

Not my experience. Americans are still considered favourably by the locals especially in the provinces. The police only screw with AM who are gullible. They are not a problem for me. If you know what you're doing and have your paperwork in order, you'll have no problem either. Matter of fact I have mentioned on numerous occasions for men to carry the American Embassy's phone number with them just in case. I suggest calling them (or merely threaten to call) next time you have a "BS" problem with police and see what the police do, you'd be surprised. Most likely it won't even get that far. I was stopped today because there has been an alert for possible terrorist attacks after the one year anniversary of the last one. I just told him I was an American, flashed my passport at him and he waved me on without even looking inside it.

Having to get a visa, not so big a deal, but you just can't go to Russia anytime you want like you can Ukraine, because you have to have a visa to enter Russia.  Anytime you want to go, tomorrow, in three days, in three weeks, anytime you want to go to Ukraine, you go.

A 1-year multi-entry business visa takes care of that.   

Myself and most guys going to Russia prefer to stay in flats, and moving around, different cities. Having to register within 72 hours, not counting weekends, in each city, in each city, well, it's another thing that takes time, takes money, and another reason for the Russian police to stop us.

They've change that law. That is not applicable anymore so it's not problem either. Again, the police roust people very seldom now, especially in the provinces. There is a one time registration now and you have up to 7 working days before you have to register so if you want to come to Russia for less than a week, you don't have to register.

I would still be going to Russia if their were guys wanting to go. So few men are traveling to Russia, so few have interest to go, compared to the men wanting to go to Ukraine, that from a business point of view Russia's just not so cool today.  I was the last American tour company that took men to Russia. AFA, Anastasia, stopped taking men to Russia sometime ago.  Why?  Not enough interest from enough men.

I know you have had some success with clients, but it's easy to see why most fail. Most look for the easy way.

Jack it's old hat why most go to Ukraine, and you do what you have to do for your business. Yes, the market for your business is most definately there as opposed to Russia but, I still think a man's odds are better in Russia. Most of the men who go to Ukraine IMO are looking for easy and cheap, and that's why many fail, even if the problems start when the women arrive in the states.

P.S. for the guys who went to Ukraine and found your lady there don't take what I said as an attack on your character. It's just a general statement of my opinion overall on the men whom I've seen there. And for the record I've been to Ukraine on many, many occassions FWIW.

[Aloe]

Elena and family live about 100 miles from me. No association.

Just curious, how big is her mansion? EM must bring in some amazing profits

[Gator]

Just curious, how big is her mansion? EM must bring in some amazing profits

Just my guess, but I imagine she makes much less money than Anastasia Web and those agencies of that ilk.  No peddling of flesh, no pay by the letter, no tempting solicitation by hot babes, etc.  Perhaps those with a good understanding of the agency business can draw a comparison.

[The Natural]

Just curious, how big is her mansion? EM must bring in some amazing profits

Gator, how about driving there and take a look at the mansion? Aloe will pay for the gas, hehe.

[Kuna]

Just curious, how big is her mansion? EM must bring in some amazing profits

Well,  you made me curious Aloe...  so a little quick searching can find her married name (not Petrova) and her home address.  I'm close to I/O and her (geographically) and know the area she lives in... nice,  but not spectacular... and using the web even found her house... in a nice area...  but not spectacular.  Certainly not the biggest house in her street either.  

There are areas on the coast with street after street of genuine mansions...  but she doesn't live there.

I'd imagine she's doing well...  but they don't seem to spend all their money on their residential property.

Here are some listings of houses NOT in her area...  hahaha
http://www.realestate.com.au/property-house-qld-sovereign+islands-107285638
http://www.realestate.com.au/property-house-qld-sovereign+islands-107159282

btw... very interesting doing the searching.  One of the disadvantages of being so successful is obviously becoming the target of the many men that fail to find love (after using her service).  I'm really surprised how many times she's listed on internet scam sites.

[Aloe]

http://www.realestate.com.au/property-house-qld-sovereign+islands-107159282

sold!!! Wrap it up and ship to belgium plix plox thx. You never see such houses here. Here all the big houses are so ugly Not like this one 

[ML]

The police only screw with AM who are gullible.  If you know what you're doing and have your paperwork in order, you'll have no problem either. Matter of fact I have mentioned on numerous occasions for men to carry the American Embassy's phone number with them just in case. I suggest calling them (or merely threaten to call) next time you have a "BS" problem with police and see what the police do, you'd be surprised.

But as Devil's Advocate:  Why put up with a country where you have a higher chance of this happening?  We want to be carefree when visiting, not having to worry about all these precautions.

Most of the men who go to Ukraine IMO are looking for easy and cheap, and that's why many fail, even if the problems start when the women arrive in the states.

Again as DA:  These men who you suggest might do better in Russia than Ukraine . . . they will be the same ones you deride in your comment.  And, these women who arrive in the states . . . they are virtually the same whether from Russia or Ukraine.  The eastern part of Ukraine is virtually all of Russian ancestry, and many of the rest are mixtures of Russian and Ukrainian.  I have dated many pure Ukrainian or pure Russian and all mixtures between.  Couldn't tell a whit of difference.

[Gator]

I have dated many pure Ukrainian or pure Russian and all mixtures between.  Couldn't tell a whit of difference.

You are not qualified to judge.  Only people born in Moscow can distinguish a difference.     (throwing salt in old wound)

[I/O]

Just curious, how big is her mansion?

Kuna summed it up very well IMO, nice, very nice but not outlandish. BTW, on the profit thing, yes I suspect it does quite well these days but understand, her husband was not a poor man in the first instance. Point being, people who really know how to make real money (there are very few in this business) tend to know how to make more money.........................

[GoodOlBoy]

A 1-year multi-entry business visa takes care of that.

It has been a few years for GOB chivo.
They still have the (monkey) "Business" visa for Russia?
I used it back in 2005-06.

GOB

[chivo]

But as Devil's Advocate:  Why put up with a country where you have a higher chance of this happening?  We want to be carefree when visiting, not having to worry about all these precautions.

You're really reaching here. You can be as carefree in Russia as you can in Ukraine. It's a myth to think otherwise. I've been stopped 3 times in the last 3 or 4 years. The last 2 times because I was carrying a good size gym bag inside the metro and use the metro quite often. This in Moscow where they stop people in the metro much more often because of the terrorist attacks in case you've forgotten. Americans, Brits, Euros, etc. have no problem with the police.

I wasn't stopped once in 9 months of living in the provinces.

Again as DA:  These men who you suggest might do better in Russia than Ukraine . . . they will be the same ones you deride in your comment.

Please show me where I've derided someone for having a bad experince with a lady. I have never, will never rub someone's nose in a bad situation. Not my style. I'm more of the your opinion is idiotic type .

With this in mind I'm assuming DA in the comments above and below is leaning more to dumb ass 

And, these women who arrive in the states . . . they are virtually the same whether from Russia or Ukraine.  The eastern part of Ukraine is virtually all of Russian ancestry, and many of the rest are mixtures of Russian and Ukrainian.

OK, and did I say they weren't? No.

What I said was that many men who choose Ukraine because of cheap and/or easy (which I think many of them do) are of a certain mindset that more than likely will lead to failure or being schooled by these ladies, if not the long run, the short run. Doesn't matter.

 

It has been a few years for GOB chivo.
They still have the (monkey) "Business" visa for Russia?
I used it back in 2005-06.

GOB

Yes. You just can't stay year 'round like in '06. They have the 90 days in 90 days out rule now. Should suit GOB just fine. Thinking about a visit to the район?

[Jack]

chivo I have also spent a lot of time in Moscow, have had many clients to do so as well, although not nearly as many the last few years.  The degree that many of these man, including myself, have been hassled by the police is a lot more than what I see in Ukraine.

I am glad you have had a good experience with Moscow police.  I have not.  And let me tell you, as long as I am legal, and I almost always am, I give it to the Moscow police. I throw it in their face, when I'm 100% legal.  But I have to think about the clients who are far more intimidated by the police than I am.  They do not stand up well to the interrogation of two policemen, one with Uzi machine gun hanging over his shoulder.

And the stories these men tell me, the large percentage getting hassled in Moscow airports, the various amounts of money they have had to pay, chivo, these guys are not making up these stories.  The police look for anything not right with their paperwork.   "ahh, where were you on these 8 days" a policeman will ask. The man could not prove where he was for these 8 days.  $150.  Or miss his flight which would cost a lot more.

And one last thing chivo, many men who choose Russia because of cheap and/or easy are of a certain mindset that more than likely will lead to failure or being schooled by these ladies, if not the long run, the short run. Doesn't matter.

[Maxx2]

Thank you Jack for answering my question and for your photos. I'm Dave to the rest of you that Jack addressed in his above post.

I hope someday to get back there and see the sights. I was so focused on my pursuit to get a wife I didn't get the chance to see all the things in Russia I wanted to see. Frankly I would go back without the objective of meeting any RW/UW this time. But if I happened to meet someone and it clicked who knows where that would lead. It would be fun to have a sexy tour guide.

[chivo]

chivo I have also spent a lot of time in Moscow, have had many clients to do so as well, although not nearly as many the last few years.  The degree that many of these man, including myself, have been hassled by the police is a lot more than what I see in Ukraine.

Jack I've been in and out of airports too many times to count. Nobody is getting harassed, I've have never seen anyone even remotely being harassed. Yes I'm sure it has happened, but not a big deal, come on. Don't blow it out of proportion.

I am glad you have had a good experience with Moscow police.  I have not.  And let me tell you, as long as I am legal, and I almost always am, I give it to the Moscow police. I throw it in their face, when I'm 100% legal.  But I have to think about the clients who are far more intimidated by the police than I am.  They do not stand up well to the interrogation of two policemen, one with Uzi machine gun hanging over his shoulder.

Try being a bit stronger or threaten to call the Embassy and see what happens if it even gets to that point (and I seriously doubt it will). What do you think they're going to do, shoot you for not being registered, or worse yet, being registered? Put you in jail? At the airport? Jack please, don't insult the board's intelligence, or mine.

Some police have played up the reputation that Americans are gullible in the past, but with Medvedev really cracking down on bribes, those days are over BTW. Know your rights while in Russia (you have them), I've said this a hundred times, or be a fool and pay.

And the stories these men tell me, the large percentage getting hassled in Moscow airports, the various amounts of money they have had to pay, chivo, these guys are not making up these stories.  The police look for anything not right with their paperwork.   "ahh, where were you on these 8 days" a policeman will ask. The man could not prove where he was for these 8 days.  $150.  Or miss his flight which would cost a lot more.

Sure

Come on brother, the police don't check your paperwork at the airport. The registration is sent back to the sponsor through the mail before you even get to the airport. Actually they could care less if they get it back. All you will have is a stamped immigration card (with no information about where you've been or when you registered) when you entered and your passport with your visa. What could possibly happen, seriously? Russia has no national data base computer system still and no information about registering or your movement is known other than the office it was registered at. This isn't America.

And as I mentioned earlier the visa has a one time registration now. You're free to travel whenever and wherever you want.

If you have an expired visa or no immigration card then that's different, but it's on you for not taking care of some simple business. If that's the case and these men are the competition for ladies, then everyone should come to Russia . The hell with cheap and easy.
 

And one last thing chivo, many men who choose Russia because of cheap and/or easy are of a certain mindset that more than likely will lead to failure or being schooled by these ladies, if not the long run, the short run. Doesn't matter.

Thing is no one is choosing Russia over Ukraine because it's cheap or easy because it's not, plain and simple.

Jack you don't need to perpetuate the myth about Russia, and don't worry, what I say isn't going to affect your business. This stiff competition of men will still head to Ukraine.

Bottom line, if a man cannot navigate the police and his personal business while in Russia, he has absolutely no chance to be successful with the women here or Ukraine for that matter.

[Gator]

chivo I have also spent a lot of time in Moscow, have had many clients to do so as well, although not nearly as many the last few years. The degree that many of these man, including myself, have been hassled by the police is a lot more than what I see in Ukraine.

I have made about 20 trips to Russia over 9 years.  I have never been harassed by the police.   

I must add that the Russian police are not model citizens.  I went inside two police stations where my girlfriend wanted to file a report, and she received little help and was otherwise treated rudely.  I have asked for directions from a couple of Moscow policemen on the street, and was told something in a sour face and gruff voice that was the equivalent of "feck off." 

To be fair, I have made maybe 3-4 trips to Ukraine, and I was not harassed there either.  Jack, maybe you need lessons from me on how to walk around in the FSU.     (just kidding, I assume you venture to nightlife spots that I avoid).

And one last thing chivo, many men who choose Russia because of cheap and/or easy are of a certain mindset that more than likely will lead to failure or being schooled by these ladies, if not the long run, the short run. Doesn't matter.

Russia is not cheap.  Ukraine is easier for travel, although the upgrades at SVO have helped.

[BillyB]

I try to avoid any layover in Russia if there's other options. I traveled on Aeroflot and landed in Moscow. Passport control was rude and said I arrived a few hours early and wouldn't let me on to Novosibirsk. Aeroflot security had me stand for 10 hours before releasing me so I could go and buy another ticket since I missed my flight. I found out later for $50 I could buy another visa right in the airport.

When waiting for my flight to Novosibirsk, I seen two police officers poke at a man sitting down with their batons. I don't know what they did with him after they removed him.

One thing is fact. If you ask taxi drivers or almost anybody in the FSU if they like the cops, the answer is no. The cops there didn't get their reputation for nothing.

[LAman]

I have made about 20 trips to Russia over 9 years.  I have never been harassed by the police.   

 

Well if you have ever been harassed, you look at things differently. Call it lucky or call it not looking like a foreigner. It was nearly every block I was stopped and asked for my papers (it looked bad at times if I was walking with a girl) but after seeing them I was let go quickly only to be stopped again down the street. Not sure if that is hasseled or harassed.
Being a bit stronger or threaten to call embassey would do little if constantly stopped.
In 5 years going to ukraine I have never been stopped by any police for anything, seen only taxi driver's stopped for 'bribe' money.

[TwoBitBandit]

I have to echo Gator's experience.  I've been to Moscow, Tver, Volgograd, Sochi, Omsk, Novosibirsk and Irkutsk.  I was only ever asked to show my passport once when I was stuck in the airport in Volgograd for twelve hours and was wandering around aimlessly.  They just looked at it and gave it back, no problem.  I've never been shaken down for a bribe.

[chivo]

Well if you have ever been harassed, you look at things differently. Call it lucky or call it not looking like a foreigner. It was nearly every block I was stopped and asked for my papers (it looked bad at times if I was walking with a girl) but after seeing them I was let go quickly only to be stopped again down the street. Not sure if that is hasseled or harassed.

I work right in the center of Moscow, in the Izvestia building which is across the street from McDonald's by Pushkinskaya Square. I'm Mexican/Irish but most take me for an Italian. I'm light skinned but have dark features like my hair and eyes. This is why I get stopped on occasions, a select few mistake me as being from the Caucasus. I can walk up and down Tverskaya (and often do) without seeing a cop much less be stopped by one and you were stopped at every corner? Most policemen congregate around the metro there at Pushkinskaya, so I see them there, but they have never stopped me, not once and I pass by them daily.

I haven't ever been stopped on Tverskaya in almost 7 years of living and working here and I have walked up and down that street hundreds of times at all different times of the day and night, but the few days/weeks you were here you were stopped on every corner of some area in some city (Moscow I assume). As I mentioned, the metro is where you'll most likely be stopped, if at all.

Being a bit stronger or threaten to call embassey would do little if constantly stopped.

This is if you are being shaken down for a bribe, not merely asked for your documents. It works, trust me. Did you know you can ask for the officer's name (kak vas zavut?) and he has to give it to you? If not called the Embassy and see what happens. I'm also assuming that you're in a populated place.

Now if you're in some obscure place by yourself and a carload of drunk officers ask you for some money, pay them and move on. Chances of this happening to a foreigner; slim to none.

Well if you have ever been harassed, you look at things differently.

On my second trip to Russia back in 2000 I spent 3 months in Nabrezhnye Chelny. I came to see a Tatar girl named Guzel.

One day I went down to an internet cafe and while I was there I meet a nice RW who spoke English. We decided to go somewhere to have some tea and talk some more and while we were standing outside the cafe Guzel happened by and caused quite a scene. So much so that I started to get nervous since she threatened me not only with her "mafia" friends, but with the local police saying she would call them and tell them I was in my flat with drugs and guns.

Afterwards as Guzel stormed away, Tanya (the RW) invited me to come to her work and hang out. Tanya worked the 7pm-11pm shift as a DJ for a local radio station. So still shaken by what happened earlier with Guzel, I elected to accompany Tanya to her job. As we sat in the studio of her work and talked, I couldn't get what happened out of my head as I thought Guzel just might do something crazy. I told Tanya I needed to get back to my flat. I should mention that Guzel helped me arrange the flat, somewhat of a no-no all things considered.

When I arrived back at my flat the landlord was there waiting for me because Guzel had called her and told her that she wanted me out of the apartment. Thing was, the landlord liked me because I kept the flat much cleaner than the previous guest and I had said I might stay for 3 months, so she wanted the sure money.

Unfortunately, the landlord didn't speak English and my Russian was almost nil at that time. I called another RW I met on another day to translate for me and things seemed OK until Guzel decided to come to the flat.  As the 2 women talked (actually Guzel was 22) I could see that Guzell was extremely upset because the landlord basically told her that she would not ask me to leave. After about an hour the landlord said she had to leave somewhere on business.

Now I was stuck alone in my flat with Guzel, who was ready to kill me. Matter of fact she attacked me in the flat in front of the landlord and scratched my face hard enough to draw some blood. I quickly grabbed her to stop her as the landlord sat in horror .

Finally Guzel calmed down and wanted to leave, but I wouldn't let her because while this was going on she continued to threaten me with her "mafia" friends and the police. I wanted to keep her in my sight so she could do neither, even if she was bluffing out of anger. Guzel asked me to get her some water and as I was getting the water she ran out of the flat.

5 minutes later she called me from her mobile to tell me that I was in "beek trouble" and that she was going to call her "mafia" friends and the police. I called Tanya and told her I was not comfortable staying in my flat that night. Tanya told me that her mom would be stopping by her work to walk her home and they would come by later. At 11:30 that night Tanya showed up with her mother at the same time the landlord, worried about me, dropped by with her daughter (who spoke English). I explained to everyone that I thought Guzel might do something crazy.

Tanya's mom offered me to stay at their flat for a couple of days until things blew over and I quickly accepted. I packed my things and all of us exited the flat. As we came out of the dark entrance with very little light to be found anywhere we were suddenly surrounded by 6 "OMON" officers with guns out and aimed at me. Luckily I had these RW with me as they handle these guys like they were crosswalk attendants . I was somewhat nervous of course as Tanya told me "Dan, there are 2 types of police in Russia, the regular police and the serious police". These guys were the serious ones. Guzel actually called them and told them there was an American with drugs and guns living in my flat.

After they ransacked my things they were satisfied I had no drugs or guns and let me/us go.

This did not change my opinion of Russia one bit, only the way I went about my business . I couldn't wait to return . I ended up moving here, feel safer here overall than in LA and getting stopped for a document check is child's play as far as I'm concerned.

Understand your rights, the reality of being a foreigner in another country, and what is real in your head compared to the reality of the situation. Also remember things are much better today with documents and the police than even 2 years ago mainly because Russia is jockeying to get into the WTO. Bribes are becoming a thing of the past especially with foreigners NOT from the Caucasus. The stops for documents are mostly a precaution because of terrorism. Russia is NOT the bogeyman and your life or time is yours to control if your situation is in order.



 

[Anotherkiwi]

...Come on brother, the police don't check your paperwork at the airport. The registration is sent back to the sponsor through the mail before you even get to the airport. Actually they could care less if they get it back. All you will have is a stamped immigration card (with no information about where you've been or when you registered) when you entered and your passport with your visa. What could possibly happen, seriously? Russia has no national data base computer system still and no information about registering or your movement is known other than the office it was registered at. This isn't America...

I beg to differ slightly, Chivo.  On both my trips the registration details on my immigration card very clearly showed where and when I had been registered.  On my first trip I (like you) spent time in Naberezhnye Chelny, although my lady was a lady!  I arrived on Saturday evening, went to register on the Monday and found that the registrations could only be done at another police station (at the opposite end of the city).  There wasn't time to get there that day, and on both the Tuesday and Wednesday we were away out of town by bus before 7 a.m.  On the Thursday we went to the correct office to register, and the officer on duty nearly had apoplexy when he saw I hadn't registered within the three days (it didn't need an interpreter to suss out his feelings towards stupid foreigners!), and that I hadn't been registered for the previous week either (I had been in St Petersburg, and my apartment manager had assured me that I didn't need to register - I assumed that someone in his position was more au fait with the regulations than I was).  He refused to register me and threatened that I would be fined 1500 RUR when I left Russia.

Needless to say I wasn't thrilled by this news, but when I did leave all that happened was that the gorgeous immigration officer at Domodedovo looked at the card, looked at me, looked at the card again, stamped everything and said "I hope you enjoyed your visit to Russia!"

...And as I mentioned earlier the visa has a one time registration now. You're free to travel whenever and wherever you want...

Something which everyone will be grateful for.

As far as being stopped by police, I haven't had a problem.  I've had police in various parts of Moscow pose for me when I wanted to take their photo (apart from a mounted officer on a beautiful horse in Revolution Square, who refused point-blank), and I've also had no hassles when asking for directions.  Maybe I look more Russian than I thought - I couldn't believe the number of people who asked me for directions in every city I visited!