RW and nerdy men

[Blues Fairy]

I frequently find mention about RW mostly being social creatures (maybe just part of the culture?), so I have been wondering if a guy like me would just be wasting his time and money.

If the particular RW you meet/court/marry wants to be social, nothing will prevent her from being so, unless you intend to restrict her communication with others.  My husband is not very social but doesn't mind my going out and meeting people, attending jazz jams, singing at clubs etc.  In turn, I let him do the thing(s) he likes to his heart's content.  We babysit in turns. 

I'd expect the question you'll more frequently have to answer is whether your hobbies bring any revenue, or are likely to do so in any near future.

[Shostakovich]

INFJ, eh.  INTJ here - might be the nerdiest of them all!

You know that INXXs can work miracles in their chosen field, therefore, choose M/F relationships as your point of focus: your intellect, not instinct will give you the key to your success.  Some nerd seeking girl may find you, but not unless your interests put you into the company of ladies. 

Also, if you like the Myers-Briggs, you might also like the enneagram.

[Ranetka]

Good looking man, looks like you tall as well? Not every RW is social, some are very happy to spend time together, just the two of you, rather than with lots of people. You are fixing cars!!!!!!!! that is my favorite hobby in men!!!

You will have no problem to attract an RW whatsover.


Any chance you like older women? (joke)

[Maxx2]

Nat,

I strongly suggest you again look at the definition of "sociopathic"--which the description was certainly not. Somewhat "antisocial" perhaps, but very very far from "sociopathic."

David

 

That's a relief to me. I was worried for a moment.

[Nat]

That's a relief to me. I was worried for a moment.

Why, do you also fit into the description?
May be I just used the wrong words. May be a sociopath isn't the right term (because it's negative, and there's nothing bad in not loving noisy companies) or is an exaggerated term. What I'm trying to say that "I don't like communicating with a lot of people on a permanent basis" or "I like sitting by myself doing what I like doing" - it's a feature of a lot of nerds, but this feature itself doesn't make a person a nerd.
For me nerdy people are those who prefer intellectual activities to common activities, who have a lot of hobbies and who know a lot about science and other stuff, who are sometimes even childish in their way of spending time (like reading sch-fi ). These are nerds, and it doesn't matter if they spend time in companies or by themselves.
So, answering the original question, can RW in general put up with may be a bit too educated people who play monopoly or watch sci-fi or talk about computers and stuff instead of watching football or dancing in a night club? I'd say they definitely can, if they share the same interests. Can RW put up with men who don't have friends (or who have few friends) and won't be able to engage their wife in noisy parties, going out every day and having fun hanging out with a crowd? Yes, those RW, who don't like doing all that themselves will be interested in such men.

[dbneeley]

Why, do you also fit into the description?
May be I just used the wrong words. May be a sociopath isn't the right term (because it's negative, and there's nothing bad in not loving noisy companies) or is an exaggerated term.

Nat:

"so·ci·o·path   
[soh-see-uh-path, soh-shee-] 
–noun Psychiatry .
a person, as a psychopathic personality, whose behavior is antisocial and who lacks a sense of moral responsibility or social conscience." from Dictionary.com

Note especially the second part about "lacks a sense of moral responsibility or social conscience." This isn't just "negative" it is a psychiatric problem; a true sociopath can easily be a murderer, for example.

To be an introvert is normally quite a benign thing that does not imply sociopathy in most cases.

Note, too, that sociopathy is a subset of psychopathic disorders.

David

[JohnDearGreen]

While I do follow your logic, just know that it's a personality trait of an INFJ to always assume the worst until proven wrong. We have a huge fear of rejection, and that fear is enough for us to avoid risk unless we are SURE we won't get rejected. It's why I made the thread.

So, fear strikes out again.  Reminds me of the old movie, Fear Strikes Out, where Anthony Perkins stars in the Jimmy Piersall story.  Jimmy has a nervous breakdown in the middle of a game,  climbs the screen behind home plate.  But after the breakdown, Jimmy makes a comeback with a more carefree attitude that baseball should be played for fun, and continues on as a star player.
[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DESm_jKmWEs[/youtube]

[I/O]

I have been wondering if a guy like me would just be wasting his time and money.

Most guys waste their time and money (if they have any real money to waste, which based on what I've seen, most don't) in this pursuit.

[defrag010]

Blues, I would be more than happy with a relationship similar to what you describe. I have no criteria for a significant other to be social or introverted.. I like all kinds of people, but my main concern mirrors what I have experienced my whole life: The majority of people I have met in my life are extroverted, and the majority of those extroverts think that introverted people are boring, dull, and un-interesting. If an extroverted socialite likes me and understands that I need my space, great!! I just have never experienced such a lasting attraction from such. And yes, what was once just a hobby has turned into a career. It's great, really, to enjoy how you make a living. I look forward to my work instead of dreading it!

Shosta, interesting point of view.. My intuition is what has gotten me where I am today, so I have to take a step back to think about what you advise.

Ranetka, thank you for the kind words!   Yes, I am tall - 6'6" or 199cm barefoot. Age doesn't matter so much, but I'll let you in on a little secret: The quickest way to my heart is through my stomach.  

JDG, I know I know.. Carpe Diem and what not.. There's just nothing I can do internally to change it. Any time I make a large purchase or an important decision, I spent insane amounts of time researching it intensively instead of diving in. I prefer to learn lessons through wise actions rather than bad experiences.

I/O, Yikes!! What's the point of it all, then? I guess if you are successful in your endeavor, then you might not consider it a "waste", thus I can only assume that what you really mean is that the majority of people who pursue a FSUW do not succeed, right?

[dbneeley]

I/O, Yikes!! What's the point of it all, then? I guess if you are successful in your endeavor, then you might not consider it a "waste", thus I can only assume that what you really mean is that the majority of people who pursue a FSUW do not succeed, right?

Defrag--

Unless I am mistaken, I/O is likely something like me--in the search for a mate, the sensible approach would be to do whatever has the greatest percentage chance of success. It is true that most who embark on this particular pursuit ultimately abandon it, usually without travel to the FSU at all. For them, it is often a vague dream which they are unwilling to take the somewhat extrarordinary steps to realize--the famous "fear of success" for many, I suppose.

Among those who travel, again the percentage of real success is smaller than these forums might suggest. The numbers who have been "looking" for two, three, four--even ten years in some cases--should tell you that this is not for everyone.

Then there are those who become quite captivated with what these ladies bring to a relationship. For these men, other options may become very unpalatable--so the pursuit of an RW is the only true remaining option for them. If they are wise and determined, it is quite possible--and, to them, well worth the effort.

(Of course, there are those like me who are wildly lucky--but that is certainly nothing to count on! Of course, it took me many years to be prepared for that luck, but that is another story entirely.)

Thus, unless you are quite determined and committed to the goal, it is often best to do something--perhaps anything--else.

Personally, I believe you are far too focused on yourself in a way that is ultimately non-productive. I believe you must decide on taking positive steps to overcome your self-described limitations--to make the proverbial silk purse from what you now regard as something of a sow's ear. Keep in mind that there is as wide a range of personalities among women as there are among men--and do some serious thinking about what characteristics in a lady would be essential as well as what positive things you could bring to such a relationship. The first will give you at least an outline of whom to seek; the second would give you a good start on a positive approach in selling yourself to such a lady.

In any event, even with an ideal lady there will be times when you must defer the "alone time" to the needs of the relationship. That's the nature of a relationship, after all. Not entirely by any means.

Consider, too, that if you do find such a lady and she emigrates to your home, for many months you will be her only support and lifeline as she becomes accustomed to the change of culture. During that period, true "alone time" must be extremely limited as her needs would frankly be far more pressing in the scheme of things. If you are not prepared for this period, then abandon this idea as it will bring immense heartache at a high cost to both parties.

As you begin to assess the situation realistically, only you can decide if it is worth the cost even if you are successful. All the Meyers-Briggs stuff, as always, is only of limited application in the real world--describing tendencies and not in any way an excuse for becoming more deeply set in your particular habit patterns.

In other words, you must be the captain of your own ship in life. If you aren't prepared for that, you're most definitely in the wrong pursuit.

David

[I/O]

the majority of people who pursue a FSUW do not succeed, right?

Anecdotally, yes.

[defrag010]

Personally, I believe you are far too focused on yourself in a way that is ultimately non-productive.

David, while I respect your assumptions and reply, know that I am still deep in the research stage of a FSUW as a possibility. I have been reading all over the internet about this since the latter part of 2009, and even so, I still haven't come to a conclusion yet. I am fully aware of everything you mention in your post. I am not even in my 30's yet (which, as I'm sure you know, most people will say that I am too young to embark on this journey) with a budding career and I don't plan on even thinking about acting on this for at least a few more years or until I am deep into my 30's. Nowhere did I mention that I am looking to set a plan in concrete any time soon. I am doing all of the research now so that I won't be wasting any time when I do reach the point in my life where I am ready to start looking at this as an option. My reply to I/O was a query as to the intent of his vague comment, but I can see how it can be misunderstood as sounding like I'm unaware of all aspects of this this journey. I posted this topic in this specific section [question for russian women (not American men), not starting out ] because of my concern about compatibility with my certain personality type, nothing more. Again, I appreciate the intent of the pep talk, but I am well beyond the "Intro to FSUW" class, and I am not interested in listening to you try and discredit any legitimacy of MBTI types.

Can we please stay on topic?

[chivo]

Yes you can find someone who will be compatible, and that's the key, if you're compatible. And it can be in other areas away from what you consider to be nerdy.

If you can make money off it as BF suggested all the better. Remember, if you can make a good to great living doing what you do most RW could careless if your blowing balloons out of your ass. OK, maybe I'm stretching it, but not by much . You can be compatible in many other ways. Most RW think of nerdy guys as people who can provide a good living for them and their families, and that is the bottom line.

You look fine, seem level headed, if it's truly what you want I say go for it. You'll only regret what you don't do in life, although a few here might disagree after their experience with a FSUW .

[Gator]

The majority of people I have met in my life are extroverted, and the majority of those extroverts think that introverted people are boring, dull, and un-interesting.

Odd to state "majority."  Of course, that is from your perspective and your reality, so I should not debate it.  I am extroverted, and the majority of people I have met seem at ease in social settings, yet I would not call them extroverted.  And I do not find introverted people dullards provided thay can talk; almost everyone has special knowledge that would expand my world.  Nevertheless, some introverts are shy and reticent, so how they be anything but boring.   Are the majority of people that way?  Far from it in my opinion.

The majority are probably in the middle (ambiverted?) and fluctuate with regard to social behavior dependent upon the people around them.  If so, you could be wrong to seek an introverted woman.  Quite possibly an extroverted woman would energize your hidden extroverted side and introduce you to a social world that you have heretofore shied from.  With time your behavior could lean towards a social side with others when your woman is not with you. So my suggestion is to look for an intelligent cheerleader.  She may not be the most beautiful, yet you would enjoy more from life, maybe.   At least give it a try and see how it feels.

[Muzh]

Defrag, every church has its priest.

Don't pay too much attention to what's been hurled at you. Basically, you know yourself. That there are RWs who would marry a man like you, I just counted 3 on this forum.

Nat, I had to comment on your choice of word: sociopath. This person's antisocial behavior is quite different from Defrag being antisocial. Defrag comes across as a person who would care what happens to his fellow human being, even in times of distress. The sociopath would consider a person is in constant state of distress and therefore a parasite.

[SomeGuy]

I wouldn't worry too much about this one; there are plenty of NFs in the FSU, and certainly people capable of being compatible with them, regardless of it you believe the MTBI opposites/complements, or other various theories.

The car/engine rebuilding will be more difficult to find someone directly interested in, but I don't see a huge challenge there, as long as you do have compatible views/personalities and at least some preferred activities in common.  Just be yourself, know yourself, have a reasonable knowledge of the sort of person that you're looking for, and don't be distracted by "simply" a pretty face.  There are a lot of available women out there, and a lot of them great for someone, you just need to find the one great for you (and vice versa). 

[Blues Fairy]

The majority of people I have met in my life are extroverted, and the majority of those extroverts think that introverted people are boring, dull, and un-interesting. If an extroverted socialite likes me and understands that I need my space, great!! I just have never experienced such a lasting attraction from such.

It boils down to what one defines as "interesting".  My introverted husband is one of the most interesting people I've ever met; he's able to converse eloquently on almost any topic; he possesses a wealth of knowledge about various aspects of life, universe and everything ; a fine sense of humor and excellent principles.  So what if he doesn't want to go places with me; I didn't marry him to drag him around and show him off to other people.  I'm content to have him all to myself.

Would you say you are an interesting, intellectually challenging kind of person?  Would you go out with you if you were an interesting, intellectually challenging kind of girl?  If you have answered yes to both, perhaps those extroverts who didn't find you interesting were just a bit too shallow?

[Rubicon]

I am a natural introverted person but learned to be much more extroverted by working in sales for years.  problem was that it was taking too much energy during the day talking to people and being patient with them to the point I did not have energy left for a social life, so I changed careers.  The right lady can drag me just about anywhere, I would probably go to the ends of the earth for her.  So I think that is the question defrag010--if you met the right lady, would you be willing to be a little more social on her behalf??

[Shostakovich]

The majority of people I have met in my life are extroverted, and the majority of those extroverts think that introverted people are boring, dull, and un-interesting. If an extroverted socialite likes me and understands that I need my space, great!!

In fact it is true that most people, in the US are extraverts. In fact countries are like people and there is a dominant personality type for the US.  If you follow the Myers-Briggs line, that type is ESTJ - the type portrayed by John Wayne in his movies.  George Bush is that type too: they have a law-giver, gauridan mentality, often perfectionist in style and not too keen on sweating the details, or even understanding them.  Myers & Briggs, and their devotees have compiled the stats: about 75% of the US population is extroverted.  Incidentally, about 25% are intuitives in contrast to the 75% that are with minds driven through the senses.  You can do the math here: 0.25**2 or about 6% of the population is INXX. My own type, INTJ, represents about 1% of the population.  That is significant because people tend to become dismissive of what they do not understand.  It is common to think introverts are somehow lacking in development - that is the extroverted view: In fact introversion and extroversion both have their healthy and pathological faces.  Extroverts have a healthy engagement with the world - their secret is that this is often driven by a pathological lack of center: they hang on you since they have no spark of their own.  Introverts may be that way due to a lack of social ability or perhaps due to some insult they have not assimilated, in a more healthy mode, introverts are full of spark and have a project in mind that does not find resonance in the social world at large, and thus find that world to be largely uninteresting. 

[OlgaH]

In fact it is true that most people, in the US are extraverts.  

Laurie Helgoe in her book noted that "Isabel Myers made this estimate when the MBTI  was being developed - prior to 1962" "The first large-scale population study of the MBTI revealed that introverts make up a good half (50.7%) of the population... in 1998.   ... MBTI Step II Manual - 57% introverts compared to 43% extroverts"
http://books.google.com/books?id=MJ0DpezRqtIC&pg=PR21&lpg=PR21&dq=Survey++US++MBTI+Manual+majority+of+the+population+are+introverts&source=bl&ots=GOKf_tTvQZ&sig=TVf7y_QlVq5J9VOJQUYtfM9FoT0&hl=en&ei=MTe6Td_6JoLu0gGDjN2VAQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CB8Q6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q&f=false

How Frequent Is My Type?
http://www.myersbriggs.org/my-mbti-personality-type/my-mbti-results/how-frequent-is-my-type.asp

defrag010, welcome to the forum.

[Shostakovich]

Laurie Helgoe in her book noted that "Isabel Myers made this estimate when the MBTI  was being developed - prior to 1962" "The first large-scale population study of the MBTI revealed that introverts make up a good half (50.7%) of the population... in 1998.   ... MBTI Step II Manual - 57% introverts compared to 43% extroverts"
http://books.google.com/books?id=MJ0DpezRqtIC&pg=PR21&lpg=PR21&dq=Survey++US++MBTI+Manual+majority+of+the+population+are+introverts&source=bl&ots=GOKf_tTvQZ&sig=TVf7y_QlVq5J9VOJQUYtfM9FoT0&hl=en&ei=MTe6Td_6JoLu0gGDjN2VAQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CB8Q6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q&f=false

How Frequent Is My Type?
http://www.myersbriggs.org/my-mbti-personality-type/my-mbti-results/how-frequent-is-my-type.asp

defrag010, welcome to the forum.

Interesting - my stats come from the landmark books by David Keirsey, with the plaintive title: "Please understand me".  The numbers in my post above check against what is in Kiersey.  That's social "science" for ya.  Kiersey and Helgoe seem to agree on the prevalence of intuitive types, however.

[OlgaH]

Interesting - my stats come from the landmark books by David Keirsey, with the plaintive title: "Please understand me".  The numbers in my post above check against what is in Kiersey.  That's social "science" for ya.  Kiersey and Helgoe seem to agree on the prevalence of intuitive types, however.

Shostakovich, What year was the book "Please understand me" written? before 1998?

[Misha]

The majority of people I have met in my life are extroverted, and the majority of those extroverts think that introverted people are boring, dull, and un-interesting.

A lot of introverts, however, develop coping skills. I, for one, am an introvert. However, I have developed some coping skills and though I do not like most social situations as it stresses me to no end, I do what I have to do for work. Thus, I will play the part when necessary for the sake of career, but I derive no pleasure from small-talk and being put in the middle of cocktail hour or the usual meet-and-greets  Likewise, there are a variety of types of extroverts as well. It is thus a bit to reductionist to simply talk of introverts and extroverts as if there are only two types of people instead of a multitude of different types of introverts and extroverts, different extremes and different ways in which people go beyond their natural tendencies.

[Shostakovich]

Shostakovich, What year was the book "Please understand me" written? before 1998?

'84.  The date of the study is not necessarily an indication of its accuracy or relevance.  Social science is notorious for sampling bias.  A poorly done study in 98 is much less use than a well conducted study in 84.  I don't have any information to indicate that Keirsey's study is more relevant than the one you posted.  I propose a Meta-Data analysis with study sample size used to weight the statistics.  We'll get to the bottom of this controversy yet.

[OlgaH]

Shostakovich, I really don't know if we can or cannot rely on MBTI studies and information posted on the website of the Myers and Briggs Foundation. They say: "The estimated frequency table was compiled from a variety of MBTI® results from 1972 through 2002, including data banks at the Center for Applications of Psychological Type; CPP, Inc; and Stanford Research Institute (SRI)" and in the total: E - 49,3%, I - 50,7%.