Operation White Panther

[Patagonie]

And to tell you how the life is crazy, You remember that my ex french/ukrainian mistress absolutely wanted to book me the week i wanted to leave to Ukraine? And this crazy week three days ago in Kiev?

And now my ex wife is IN my city.

Yes her mother had been operated urgently.
Finally part of the money i gave for the compensatory alimony saved a life ... 



I love Ukraine
I love my life     
NB : The plan is not to meet my ex wife.
 

[Patagonie]

[Patagonie]

3D panoramic for dentition 13€ 
IRM 60€ 
Heart operation 5000€

[Patagonie]

So i think about a lot of guys who come here.
95% are not registered and we don't even know who you are.

The life i propose you if you are 25, 35, 40 is probably one of the most brilliant ifyou love very much women, love, beauty, emotions and raise a family.

If you are in IT and in any remotely business the plan is to prepare you move to FSU, to get a long stay visa (aim directly 3 years in Ukraine, needed to be renewed). Before get some courses of russian/ukrainian as much as possible.
Put a double condom on your dick the first three years so you have time to really understand what happens in such country. And after if you decide that the way to go, if you want to setup a family it will be time to find the mother of your dreams.

 Or to have a long and interesting dating life or anything like a relationship with a woman you love.
The best is, with your remote business, to not bring your family in the west to avoid the hassle of the immigration/cultural move for your wife and also to protect yourself from the mafia civilian court that is working in the western countries now. There are many things that are worthy, like avoiding false accusations and so on in case you disagree with your GF or wife and many other things...
Of course being outside european community and USA has some advantage you have to dig in.

You will have the possibility to your family to leave in a double culture and if one day you are sure that's worth it to come back in your native country one day.

[Boethius]

I've not known one expat who has lived in Ukraine long term, who has not been beaten, robbed, burgled, or swindled.  The only ones I know of who have not had that occur were married to locals, but even some of them suffered these fates.  Many of those learned from those lessons and continued on, but it's a very common occurrence.


Just pointing to one of risks.


This post was composed without the aid of google.

[Patagonie]

Bo
The paradise where no offences are commited doesn't exist

homicide rate per 100000 inhabitants source wikipedia
10.8 Russia
6.3 Ukraine
 5.4 USA
 1.7 France
For example in France rare are the people who didn't need to go one day or an other in a police station.

[Boethius]

Yes, but as a foreigner, you will be targeted.  That's not the case for a French national living in France.


This post was composed without the aid of google.

[Patagonie]

Yes, but as a foreigner, you will be targeted.  That's not the case for a French national living in France.


This post was composed without the aid of google.

Yes a little more, like in every country who has more poverty than the others.

[Patagonie]

I've not known one expat who has lived in Ukraine long term, who has not been beaten, robbed, burgled, or swindled.  The only ones I know of who have not had that occur were married to locals, but even some of them suffered these fates.  Many of those learned from those lessons and continued on, but it's a very common occurrence.


Just pointing to one of risks.


This post was composed without the aid of google.

But i think that here we face an over generalization however

[BillyB]

Bo
The paradise where no offences are commited doesn't exist

homicide rate per 100000 inhabitants source wikipedia
10.8 Russia
6.3 Ukraine
 5.4 USA
 1.7 France
For example in France rare are the people who didn't need to go one day or an other in a police station.

I don't think a lot of bad stuff in the FSU get reported. Much of the bad stuff are caused by the cops anyway. I've never lived there but when I did visit, trouble found me. A few people who lived there and post here had stuff happen to them. Docete's wife been a victim of sexual harassment. Andrew had someone bash him on the back of the head and knocked him out. He woke up hours later in a in a pool of blood and snow minus a wallet. I can't remember a name but a guy came here and said while walking down the street, he flipped off an aggressive driver. The car stopped and they shot him with a rubber bullet. I'm sure there are more stories but this is what comes to mind right now.

[Patagonie]

Yes life in Ukraine is not necessary the most comfortable and you need to be flexible and have good humour,
So for example since yesterday morning we don't have water anymore, it was supposed to be retablished this morning but, that's Ukraine 
The heater is still off, in all the whole city : it's too hot still 8 degres. 

[Patagonie]

My life is superb,
I am listening music with professional headphones, so i have a studio qualitY, depending of the quality of the music of course. I have my own flac pack but i also explore a lot. 

I mainly correspond with the woman i like more and more hours after hours, i really think that she is out of the crownd for many reasons. 

And i manage also during this time the others incoming meetings while i send time to time a meeting proposition to any women i like, mainly on Badoo. 

THere is a slow stream of new girls now. 

The problem is i am very very picky, so i don't bombard the site of messages.i run time to time and manage some dental health with my favorite dentist here.
i often land in coffees and try to avoid restaurants too much to keep my weight low.
Logistical problems have been sold prior ma venue. 

I have no time sleep or to wake up, i can cut my sleep by two, don't eat for hours, all stay flexible, the only priorities are dentist and romance, the rest has no importance or secondary importance.
i access to an upper emotional state who allows me, to how to stay, to be clearly better connected with women.   

I try new things too push higher the connection, but sometimes, like last summer, you do almost nothing special and the lady is doing the work by herself and find any reasons to idealize you, probably because i have a strong frame, a mix between masculinity vs feminity toughness vs sensibility caring vs unleashed

[Trenchcoat]

I've not known one expat who has lived in Ukraine long term, who has not been beaten, robbed, burgled, or swindled.  The only ones I know of who have not had that occur were married to locals, but even some of them suffered these fates.  Many of those learned from those lessons and continued on, but it's a very common occurrence.


Just pointing to one of risks.


This post was composed without the aid of google.

I think it's important to be aware of the dangers you point out Boe and prepare accordingly.  I would only go to live in Ukraine etc if/when I get an independent income stream going in the UK. Hopefully that should be mid way through 2020 onwards. That will keep the main bulk of my money outside Ukraine only to draw upon it as and when. Any form of wealth should be minimised as far as possible in Ukraine I have come to learn.

I carry cheap Motorola Mobile's around with me now when out there as travel phones and leave my main mobile at home. I would do the same if out there long term. I also use two wallets, one that holds my passport that goes into a safe once in Ukraine accommodation and another with which I carry a bank card and a low amount of cash in it.

Learning Russian/Ukrainian, not standing out too much, awareness, keeping oneself moving, gym fitness and a martial art or some idea of how to defend oneself successfully is also good stuff to do.

From my past travels the thing I most learnt that being able to be as Independant as possible is the most valuable thing out there to avoid ill events happening.

Of course there are other factors. Living in the city centre of most cities is likely to lessen risk as they tend to be more civilized particularly if they are a bit touristy.

If one really wants to reduce the risk of criminal acts then Minsk could be a good option, the state apparatus surpresses a lot of criminal activity out there. One of the big advantages to Minsk and it's still somewhat Communist government, a nice secure environment

[Patagonie]

I had personnaly never had a trouble. I came here more than 20 times (lost the exact countdown now), walk and run a lot, including by night. My ex french buddy in Kharkov, who lives here permanently never reported me a problem and he travels regulary in the country.

I don't say it's absolutely safe. I don't get drunk, i don't let my stuff in the flat, i block the door if i am in an hotel i am not sure, i will be suspicious if a man enter in the building with me. I never pay with a credit card, i don't show and don't bragg about my money.

I have also an height and a mafia look that probably are not encouraging a lot of people.

I don't go in strip bar or in bordel, i avoid suspicious coffee or dancing.

I will bail out if i don't feel people.

In the train, lux coupé, i always say hello to the passenger with me, always check the door to be blocked and protect my stuff even when i sleep.

I had been used to live abroad, maybe it helps.

[Trenchcoat]

Sounds to me like you are good on that stuff Pat.

I tend to get the impression those that get done over tend to stand out or/and look weak targets. Guys that are obviously overweight or look puny. Looking too puny may even be worse hence why some FSW may not like guys that looks too puny, ie skinny with no obvious muscle.

Other guys may make displays off their wealth all too openly without realising it or may speak too loudly in their native tongue, others may look unsure of themselves.

In general though I think you're right Pat, those of us that keep our head down and keep to our business don't have any problems. I get amount some elements of Ukraine there is a prey mentality and so it makes sense to be guarded and not leave yourself open. I think for those that get to know the scene and act right, Ukraine is as safe as anywhere and a paradise to be for dating the women

[Patagonie]

So now we have an other interesting thing that happens, or could happen. Nothing is proven for the moment. It should go on further verification.

Summary :  to help you and avoid to reread all the topic.
Two years ago approximatively i recruited a terp to help me to tell me to the father of the teenager who had lived with me that's her mother has messed up our marriage and i was filling a divorce.
As i have always respected this man i had considered of the highest importance to inform him as clearly as possible, so i recruit a terp, to avoid any misunderstanding. So he can take the best decision in the interest of this young girl, as i am not the father.

During our following exchanges i learnt ex wifey had on her side did some marketing to let believe that i had become mad. And she extracted some money of the father of this young girl by pretending she was starving. I had a complete file with hundreds of proofs with me. But i think that he knew my ex wife enough to not ask them to be seen.

So to make it short the terp was a solid 8 blond. I asked also to provide me some russian lessons. There was also a solid attraction. We hold hand in a coffee, nothing more because i was not ready. I never betrayed my ex wife. I dated my first GF five months after she left home.

Finally i saw her again (the terp), the attraction was still there. And she repeatidily talked me about marriage, three times. I explained her that was out of question, at this moment i was alone, even divorced, but still waiting the documents. And absolutely not in the mood to remarry.


This year in february i noticed her on Fdating. I did anything, that's her life. But before this she contacted me, i have the proof on Viber, i answered but nothing came along.

And when i met her this summer she finally dropped me that she was going to marry to a guy of Canada.

Strangely when i first met her two years ago, hiring her as a terp and also russian teacher, she had just came back from ... Canada.

éh éh éh, to be continued

[Patagonie]

Sounds to me like you are good on that stuff Pat.

I tend to get the impression those that get done over tend to stand out or/and look weak targets. Guys that are obviously overweight or look puny. Looking too puny may even be worse hence why some FSW may not like guys that looks too puny, ie skinny with no obvious muscle.

Other guys may make displays off their wealth all too openly without realising it or may speak too loudly in their native tongue, others may look unsure of themselves.

In general though I think you're right Pat, those of us that keep our head down and keep to our business don't have any problems. I get amount some elements of Ukraine there is a prey mentality and so it makes sense to be guarded and not leave yourself open. I think for those that get to know the scene and act right, Ukraine is as safe as anywhere and a paradise to be for dating the women

I globally think the same, however chance can came along... you can be at the bad moment with the bad people and boum
I have already missed to die 3 or 4 times, very close (i don't speak about being assaulted)

[Patagonie]

The water is back, viva Ukraine 

[Patagonie]

So let me explain my version :

She put some pression on me but she put also a lot of pression on this other man. It came flat both sides.
So she has to restart things from scratch (fdating episode). Ffinally don't know why but canadian guy decided to give his vote, something like this.
So she told me about this ongoing marriage this very few months ago. This was a very emotional diner, even if his lovely daughter was there we could felt the sparks in our eyes back and forth. I was happy for her. 
I think she largely had prefered me and always consider me as a good father for her daughter.
 
She also grateful towards me because i helped to take the decision that has changed her life the most.
I helped her to  drop her job of teacher (i think it's 120$ per month) and setup her own business, an english school. And she has no regret.

Tw o days ago we spendone hour and half together. We are rarely alone, but we were alone this time. She is very conservative but she was dressed and had some make up above her usual daily life. She likes me guys, nothing has changed, that's simple, why to write a roman. 

I had been always curious how pushing a man like she did could work, i was, i am curious about the afterward of this story, i know how it's difficult to go through such whole immigration story. 

I have to tell you that she hates Ukraine more and more and the plan, you have guessed, is to leave Ukraine, you understand why i never wanted to become the Ukraine International Airlines PLUS k1 shelter
 
So we have daily messages since i saw her two days ago, and tonight she is upset and tired because she works like crazy, no water and she is writing me this : i am not moving to Canada. 

Surprisingly she made no, none, allusion to Canada, the husband, and anything this last month even under my questions or hints

She also last meeting sent me several hints about all the possible girlfriends i could have. A way to know if i am landed     
 
So, we will squeeze the shit out of the box i think next meeting.

 

[Patagonie]

She told me one time, i remember "i know my price". 

No,  her price depends exclusively of external parameters that are totaly out of her control and so she couldn't know her price because it can vary between 0 and 1, staying in Ukraine or getting the card.
The way is very very very long before getting a card.
The way is closer to stay in Ukraine because she has already two feet on this ground every minute. 

She has also two daughters, from two men. One is grown and the other is still quite young,  i like her very much. All i can say is that they deserve a better life. She works like crazy and maybe she starts to make some money. I say this because she was so proud to drive me in her car last time, because she has bought a little car recently and it gives her some joy. It's a big sum for her, and i don't know from how this money came. Not sure that her business has provided all. 

SO as you see what is interesting is to share time to people, understand the details and guess the dynamics behind, with empathy but without shooting a bullet in your feet furthermore.

[Patagonie]

Why i met her two years ago?
Because with her salary as a teacher, she couldn't survive. Therefore she was a terp during her time free and additionnaly gave me few russian lessons.
 
She wanted to keep up with the teacher job because after a certain time she could get a pension, increased after a certain period of time. I told her : so you are tying your hand all your life to get 60$ in 20 years, considering that this sum will be nothing with the inflation and anyway how do want to survive with such shit?In conclusion she left school one year ago and start her business. 
 
 I think that she works between 60 and 70 hours per week. An old man from Canada (not the "husband") was part of the business in the very beginning but i guess that he wanted more than setup an english school with her.
 
She is a hard worker, pro ukrainian, she is smart, respects the law (doesn't mean that she necessary declare all her money to the taxes, i won't if i was her), raised her daughters, probably mainly the youngest as the father don't take care about this girl unfortunately. And she is honest.Yes you can not like what i wrote about her but she still has certain qualities. So now how a woman like this can have a dating life? 
 
I don't even know how she managed to start something with this man. Ok don't be a fool, write this on your fridge : when a woman wants she always find a way to give time to a man whatever is the situation.
BUT
Really that a shitty life. Now her life seems better because she seems to have cranked an other level but what you have to understand, is when you date such woman, and from the first hours, you have to help her financially. 

Let me take an other example.
I made some friendship with a taxi guy 10 years ago. He never told me but he had a big credit because he stupidly bought a big SUV (that bring him to bankrupcy). So when he was spending two hours with me, does he have to share the bill? NO, i have to pay all the bill because during those two hours a lot of money didn't get into his pocket.

So for those women who have a private business, the fact that they are not into the business has bad financial consequences. Respect them, not only by paying any restaurant, coffee, taxi bills but also you should help them when you start to date them repeatedly

[Patagonie]

For many people, in Ukraine, the field of actions is very narrow. For many it's zero. they have few or no chances their destiny.
You should understand this quiet loudly, because YOU are the price.
I want to make it crystal clear, in almost all cases you are the price.

[Patagonie]

An other example.
I spent last years several days with a young lady in her maximum mid thirties. SHe was speaking a decent english so we had a good level of communication.
She spent ten years to try to land and get a job doing different things. She couldn't approach a big city because her parents were poors and couldn't help her to pay a rental. See the problem no flat no job, no job no flat and additionnaly the rent is so expansive considering the paychek. For example in a little city a waitress got 100$ and if she is lucky a tip of 10 grivnas from time to time.

So at the end she contracted a job with the city hall in the  ity where her parents live, they let her the city flat while they live in the datcha now because they are retired.

She now has some life. But that's a poor life, like many many ukrainian people. But decent on an ukrainian standard.

So when you pass by, a guy like me, and she don't step in the adventure, and i respect her, that's her loss, not mine.

[Patagonie]

Solid 7 waiting in the most luxuous supermarket of the city :

[msmob]

Ah the 'danger' of marking ladies out of ten .. VERY subjective

NOT a fan of the footwear. either  !