Operation White Panther

[Patagonie]

So guys, 
Do you have any idea that can explain that she cannot meet me even 10 minutes (because I have even offered her the cocky funny hug service special delivery in any location of her city) 
Knowing that she has 2 children and a job. And even if she lives with a guy, and worse even if she works with him, any normal woman I met under this condition, has found some time to meet me. Even the jealous guy, they find a way.   
 
Any idea?
 
more information: she is searching for a serious relationship. She wants me to cuddle her, to hold her hand (we did), I can touch her to the point that I have validate entirely the whole physical attraction threshold, all of this is validated FULLY. I touched her nose and she didn't wink an eye. 
   
I thought about facial surgery and so a woman possibly would avoid you for some time. (Likely Botox, so popular) but of course this explanation looks like shit.

[krimster2]

have you considered asking her directly? what's her response?
if it's clear, that you both want different things, then it means you're NOT REALLY "sympatico"
therefor...time to move on....
say "au revoir mon cherie"
I know it squeezes yur poor French heart, but in the end, you will suffer less this way

if your campaigns of l'amour end up like the Battle of Dien Bien Phu
then yur fighting the wrong way
ya wanna be a guerilla fighter, hit and run
until you get "captured" by the enemy
that's how I played it

[Patagonie]

have you considered asking her directly? what's her response?
if it's clear, that you both want different things, then it means you're NOT REALLY "sympatico"
therefor...time to move on....
say "au revoir mon cherie"
I know it squeezes yur poor French heart, but in the end, you will suffer less this way

if your campaigns of l'amour end up like the Battle of Dien Bien Phu
then yur fighting the wrong way
ya wanna be a guerilla fighter, hit and run
until you get "captured" by the enemy
that's how I played it

   
Fortunately, I didn't move on
I should have move on. I should have move on many times, according to the common sense, to the laws of the psychology, to the game. But I didn't. 
 
But today more code has been cracked. A LOT more 
And the reason of all this?
   
It's because you need to build an emotional connection.And an emotional connection needs time to be built. 
And it needs time to fuel this woman day after day.
So you start to have some momentum in her head. You are not 15 and she is not 15 anymore.
And one of the law of attraction provided that the physical attraction test is passed with flying colors, is a woman is giving you more attention because you chase her. She rewards you. Part of the theorem is that you show confidence. And they love confident men, there is surely less and less of this specie now.
 
I also have changed my way through the VAKOG diagram to focus more on vocal messages, understanding that I have more weight doing this way. It's also that my voice is helping.

[Patagonie]

So for all guys here, especially newbies, and we will include the guys who have few travels on their belt.
 
For example here we have a European who meets Russian women and he is saying that they order the most expansive meals (he choose the restaurant) and often they order some Champaign.  He seems to have several campaigns under his belt.
    Did it happens to me? NEVER. Sometimes they choose sushi, because they like it very much, or some fish, or some meat. And generally it comes when you already go to the second or third meeting. But champaign NEVER.   So this guy thinks that he is going well with Russian ladies but I do believe that he retrieves the bottom of the barrel.   I don't know any detail about HOW he's communicating, what he says, and what he puts on his ad.
   So somewhere he emplies that Russian ladies are expensive bitc...   
 
While most of the senior members of this board are likely to have a quite different opinion of this. Probably the opposite. An honest FSU woman will respect you wallet. Especially during the first meetings as she wants to make a good impression. That's more where the truth is here compare to what our European guys chasing in Asia suffered IMHO.     
   
  So I come back to the point(s). 
   
The first point is essential and the gate of everything.   
How was the first meeting?   
We don't care about the number of plates on the table, if there was a nice terrace, if she has lovely boobs. We speak about her and only her.
We speak about knowing and counting the signs of her interest, that validates a possible physical relationship in the future. Because you need it anyways.
And the old school is saying that, apart the real signs of interest which belongs to her manifest, that (your role) you need to work to make her landing in a comfort area.
At this point, in Europe, you should start the sexual escalation, but in FSU that's not a good rule, if you are searching especially a LTR or a marriage you don't need to emphasize too much on this ladder. 
   
 The second point to validate is:   
How many husband, fiancees, fuck friends, does she have in her gravitational sphere? 
More than the number of dicks that visit her, the most important is not the speed and the size of this poles, but the EMOTIONAL dependency she has with those men or this man. To this you need to also bring the guy(s) who support(s) her financially because it could jeopardize your dating.   
What's the real importance of any contender in the ring?
   
  So it's only when you have clear picture of these that you can go forward more quietly in the journey.



 

[krimster2]

so what is your "lingua franca" with this woman?
you do understand that "emotionally" Russian women are "wired different from you"
and the one thing you never, never, never give a Russian woman is STRESS
like the way you're feelin now
what a Russian woman needs is a man to take care of her
so...that's what ya do
find out what she wants...and show her the path towards getting it with YOU

how I handled expensive meals, etc
I put her in charge of food, gave her however much she needed to feed the two of us
and forgot about it
I was in charge of big things, passports, air tickets, 5 star hotels
from each acoording to their ability
and you both need the same thing

since you have an NLP framework
think also of a behavioral modification one

how I used to roll with girlfriends
I would use rewards as a way to learn mutual cooperation
if we cooperated, she'd get to go to Istanbul, and I'd take her shopping for clothes in Istanbul
after a couple of days of escalating intimacy, they're literally eating out of my hand, and would do ANYTHING for me
then I give them the best oral sex they ever had in their life
after I'm done I have to wrestle with them to get them to let go of me

now I'm too old to care about that, Willy Wonka retired from the Candy Factory
but...
my wife makes me COOKIES!!!!!
I'd honestly maintain our relationship just for the food...
plus, she kinda looks like Elizabeth Hurley but with some kinda European accent instead
and she's big and strong, and can protect me from the other Russian women
which is good, because I've been fighting my entire life and want to stop now and do something else instead

I...I...
want to be a Ballerina

haha just keeding

[ML]

Pat, I must say I don't understand much about your recent experiences with the Russian woman.

And were/are you actually considering making a trip into Russia ?

Who will they trade you for ?

If I am reading your story correctly, your most recent gal is sort of stonewalling you.

If this is true, I am surprised an experienced guy like you is putting up with it.

Say it's not true Red Ryder..

[Patagonie]

so what is your "lingua franca" with this woman?
you do understand that "emotionally" Russian women are "wired different from you"
and the one thing you never, never, never give a Russian woman is STRESS
like the way you're feelin now
what a Russian woman needs is a man to take care of her
so...that's what ya do
find out what she wants...and show her the path towards getting it with YOU

how I handled expensive meals, etc
I put her in charge of food, gave her however much she needed to feed the two of us
and forgot about it
I was in charge of big things, passports, air tickets, 5 star hotels
from each acoording to their ability
and you both need the same thing

since you have an NLP framework
think also of a behavioral modification one

how I used to roll with girlfriends
I would use rewards as a way to learn mutual cooperation
if we cooperated, she'd get to go to Istanbul, and I'd take her shopping for clothes in Istanbul
after a couple of days of escalating intimacy, they're literally eating out of my hand, and would do ANYTHING for me
then I give them the best oral sex they ever had in their life
after I'm done I have to wrestle with them to get them to let go of me

now I'm too old to care about that, Willy Wonka retired from the Candy Factory
but...
my wife makes me COOKIES!!!!!
I'd honestly maintain our relationship just for the food...
plus, she kinda looks like Elizabeth Hurley but with some kinda European accent instead
and she's big and strong, and can protect me from the other Russian women
which is good, because I've been fighting my entire life and want to stop now and do something else instead

I...I...
want to be a Ballerina

haha just keeding

To be frank, I got some results by putting stress on her, from a situation I was going to nowhere, . The stress to loose me. Of course that only works if there is some mutual emotional ground.                         
What does she wants? A destiny, a fate. And she believes I could be her destiny. That's damned powerful.                                                         
As I haven't, and never hadn't, your incomes Krim, I have never play to reward a woman with money or gifts. Of course when I was married I helped her financially and offered some gifts. But that was because we were already in relationship. I never use money as a bait to bed women.   
   
About NLP. I know some stuff about this. The next post will come around, even if it's not exactly NLP, but close

[Patagonie]

Pat, I must say I don't understand much about your recent experiences with the Russian woman.

And were/are you actually considering making a trip into Russia ?

Who will they trade you for ?

If I am reading your story correctly, your most recent gal is sort of stonewalling you.

If this is true, I am surprised an experienced guy like you is putting up with it.

Say it's not true Red Ryder..

Dear ML.
Sorry. 
The action takes place in Asia. Where I am actually. 
You are right about this stonewalling, and I am close to go through this wall. 
I would say that I am not actively chasing women and when I have a crush it happens not often so I am ready to allocate more resources until my opinion is done
We will see. 

[Patagonie]

That the menu of the second meeting. French speakers will appreciated the romanticism. 
For the others a translation is needed. 
This text is associated with a link to some music. 
So we can say that is a projection and used as an anchor. It also sexualizing. Sorry for the neologism, but it's explicit.

                                               
  Notre deuxième rendez-vous : 
Quand tu vas arriver je vais te soulever doucement dans mes bras pour fêter ta venue           
Ensuite, par dessus la table, nos mains vont s'unir et nos regards, intenses, vont se chercher comme si 10000 ans s'étaient écoulés Je vais alors te demander de venir près de moi. 
Tu seras penchée contre moi, je vais te dire des mots doux, dans la langue de l'amour, ma bouche pressée contre tes cheveux dorés. 
Tu sentiras les battements de mon coeur sous tes doigts et tu auras envie que nous ne fassions plus qu'un, comme si nous n'étions jamais nés.
Je déposerai un baiser sur tes lèvres mouillées pour les sécher et tu me serreras contre toi comme si tu me voulais pour toujours

[Patagonie]

Normally no woman searching for love would miss this meeting. 

[ML]

Pat, I have said the same things to women in English, as below.

Our second meeting:
When you arrive I will gently lift you in my arms to celebrate your arrival           
Then, across the table, our hands will join and our gazes, intense, will seek each other as if 10,000 years had passed. I will then ask you to come close to me.
You will be leaning against me, I will say sweet words to you, in the language of love, my mouth pressed against your golden hair.
You will feel the beat of my heart under your fingers and you will want us to become one, as if we were never born.
I'll kiss your wet lips dry and you'll hold me like you want me forever.

[krimster2]

ewwwww....what is wrong with you guys and all this "romance" stuff
that's for WOMEN and not for MEN
don't you believe in gender roles?
men like cookies and sex...in that order
give me cookies or give me sex

is it noble to suffer?
I don't think so
while you are threatening to withold yur affection from her
she...already is witholding hers from you...
so yur both trying to manipulate each other's response
this ia bad sign
it means there is something FUNDAMENTAL that is NOT right in yur relationship

and becuz she's a woman, she knows she's the spider who has you trapped in her web
you romantics ALWAYS "get hoisted by your own petard"
Don Quixote would advise you to stop "tilting at windmills"

to get what you want,
you first, have to NOT want it
so that instead of you "getting it" "it gets you"
you WANT it to come to you on it's own, istead of "forcing it"

maybe this is not your main problem
maybe your main problem, is that you would never want to date the women who are attracted to you
so you only pursue women who aren't

don't search for the answer to this problem within her
the answer is NOT there
look inside yurself mon ami

also, I advice you to "accept what is" instead of "what you wish"
then ya can be the zen master, who "wishes for nothing"
becuz whatever he has, is all that he really wishes for, and not what he doesn't have
this way, the life that you LOVE
will be yur own life

[Patagonie]

Pat, I have said the same things to women in English, as below.

Our second meeting:
When you arrive I will gently lift you in my arms to celebrate your arrival           
Then, across the table, our hands will join and our gazes, intense, will seek each other as if 10,000 years had passed. I will then ask you to come close to me.
You will be leaning against me, I will say sweet words to you, in the language of love, my mouth pressed against your golden hair.
You will feel the beat of my heart under your fingers and you will want us to become one, as if we were never born.
I'll kiss your wet lips dry and you'll hold me like you want me forever.

ML thank you so much, that's first class English
So tell us which kind of reaction have you retrieved from the women with this sort of text?

[Patagonie]

ewwwww....what is wrong with you guys and all this "romance" stuff
that's for WOMEN and not for MEN
don't you believe in gender roles?
men like cookies and sex...in that order
give me cookies or give me sex

is it noble to suffer?
I don't think so
while you are threatening to withold yur affection from her
she...already is witholding from you...
and she knows she's the spider who has you trapped in her web
you romantics always "get hoisted by your own petard"
Don Quixote would advise you to stop "tilting at windmills"
   
to get what you want,
you first, have to NOT want it
so that istead of you "getting it" "it gets you" instead
you WANT it to come to you on it's own, istead of "forcing it"
   
maybe this is not your main problem
maybe your main problem, is that you would never want to date the women who are attracted to you
so you only pursue women who aren't
   
don't search for the answer to this problem within her
the answer is NOT there
look inside yurself mon ami

   
I have never threatened her Krim. I talked her as an adult who makes conclusion and asking her if a future was possible. Because no futur is possible if a woman cannot give time to a man. At this moment she started to fear that I will never come back to see her.That's quite different.
   
Yes I do agree, you want it to come to yo on it's own, "instead of forcing it".
It's true that I am now attracted to a limited number of women, but as I have no desire to make effort for women I am not attracted my life is smooth, additionally I have barely stop the chase.
   
Attracted enough she is.
But now women need more time than men to warm up. It seems to be that she has just started a new business and has 2/3 children, so that doesn't help.

[Trenchcoat]

  back Pat

I've been reading with interest but thought it better to say nothing until more information emerged.

You are a MGTOW and I am a Passport Bro lol

I get what the MGTOW scene can be about though. A guy wanting to be independent and not burdened down by traditional conventions of society, Marriage & Children, keeping your independence and ability to do as you choose.

All of that is very lovely but to most women it offers nothing. If you are looking for a LTR with a Woman and she is holding out on you perhaps the offer is not good enough in her eyes. Not you but what you are offering, a long term relationship with no commitments.

Companionship is one thing but women tend to want commitment from a man. She already has 2 kids (possibly more?) so she is probably wanting Marriage from a guy. Anything else might not do it for her. Paying for a nice meal at a nice restaurant to try and get your leg over Roosh style may not be what she wants. Plutonic companionship may not be what she wants also.

Her work/business plus children may keep her very busy (I assume the children are youngish?) so not much time to be distracted by guys not offering her much in return for a lot term relationship. There is of course the old 'sponsorship' approach of money for a long term involvement together. I think trying for a long term relationship where you just pay in for stuff as and when needed might not be what she is interested in but rather more a commitment if Marriage. From her point of view she will be spending valuable years with you in a long term relationship but if you are saying you are not committed to her and might leave at any time (when she gets old & not looking so good, when she gets argumentative, etc) she may see it as she doesn't want to be in that position some years from now and likely with her options diminished if any of finding another guy. That potentially does nothing for her but land her in a bad lonely place.

The MGTOW Scene fits a bit into the Western Dating Scene but in the FSU dating scene might be more of a difficult fit. She might just not be sure what to make of you and is waiting for you to make her an offer of something more committed that you already are. My impression is that many MGTOW in the FSU would tend to go for short term relationships, hookups over dinner dates, sponsorship or just plain out having a girl on by dangling commitment in her face but never quite getting there (unfortunately some men do that).

I possibly think that maybe you are hoping to break with this and possibly it is not impossible but very difficult to find. I know if one woman in the FSU who is interested in getting with a wealthy guy for a LTR without Marriage or Children but for companionship, sex and him paying for stuff for her. However she is in her forties and risks aging out and I don't think she sees that coming.

[krimster2]

if she has too much baggage for her to move to live with you
then that path is not going to happen
so, the two of you are a "vacation fling" in Phukut
and what happens in Phukut, stays in Phukut
that's the phuqueing problem with Phukut meetings, n'est pas?
so meet her in her home, and see what changes
if nothing changes...
then walk down any ulitsya in Ukraine, and proposition EVERY single woman you meet, be the boldest sex tourist who ever drew a breath in Ukraine
I know this sounds INSANE
but in Ukraine, this ACTUALLY WORKS!!!!
it just takes awhile
Ukraine ALWAYS blows my mind

instead of living a life of quiet desperation
you could approach single Ukrainian women, and desperately beg them for sex
9 out of 10 will say "phuque you" but not the way YOU WANT
then when the magic #10 appears
and she listens to yur spiel with arms across her breasts
and then nods her head and ends up taking you home with her

probability of success per social contact multiplied by the number of contacts
lower probability of success, as you get older, means you have to increase the frequency of effort, to maintain the same flow rate

be like a magnet fisherman on the bridge
and drag your self some place where there are lots of women
and see if any of em got stuck to you
I'm too lazy to chase after wimmin, this is the easy way

Phukut is a bad pickup spot for Russians on Vacation
now you see why
it's like Las Vegas in the USA, same thing, you don't go there
she chose this for a reason

here's what I'd do, if I were you
ask to come vist her
what's her response
if the answer is "non"
well, then you KNOW she's hiding something from you
nobody trusts Russians
especially other Russians
as a westerner, you need to think this way

an alternative path
if I were you, I'd be in Ukraine, "doin stuff" and it should be trivial for you to get a room mate with benefits there, especially NOW
a safe shelter in the storm for some poor Ukrainian girl who is in need of a protector and provider
what is it a 2 - 3 hour flight for you, you can even take the train

what kinda hobbies do you have?
what can you do with these hobbies in Ukraine

avec moi, you see the right path mon ami
becuz I see that now you are on the wrong one

you must be as a carpenter
and only cut "with the grain"
and never "against it"
if you feel like yur cutting against the grain, then yur doin it wrong
and it ain't the wood's fault

I thought you French were supposed to be the "master carpenters of amour"
so if even you're having problems, that doesn't sound good for the Anglos, now does it
man, they're REALLY gonna be in trouble soon

well...how sad...

PS

in a big city in Ukraine
go into a busy cafe, with a lot of women
order something and sit

take out an unopened letter
open it and read it
and start crying
then put on sun glasses and scan people's faces
what kind of reaction did you get

PS
my wife likes Edith Pilaf's voice, but not french men
I think Pilaf is too nasal...NOOOOS SOOOOOMES sounds like she's warning ships to me
no, I love Pilaf, I really liked Toulouse, a mixture of a medevil cathedral and silicon valley

c'est question?
ok...yur urinating in a Pissoir, and for some reason, it doesn't block the view completely
there's a 30 cm gap at the bottom
where people walkin buy can see yur shoulders and the last 12 inches of yur urine stream
ok...
so while yur "busy"
a group of women walk by and look at ya, and then start whispering and laughing
WTF?
and NO, I wasn't peeing on my feet

all I'm saying is I'd just think there should be rules about that sort of thing
in Russia, it's the opposite, I musta accidentally run into a couple of dozen Russian women squatting to take a leak
some of them I scared really badly, scared the shit out of them, which came flyin out as they jumped in the air and screamed

who flung dung?
that woman there!!
and all I was trying to do was walk home, taking a shortcut through the weeds
when all of a sudden I see this woman's butt jump out at me
and she farts...then I yell and she screams and runs away with her pants down
and in the summer, this happened at least once per month

PS
if I were a european and in posession of a penis
I'd be spending as much time as I could in Western Ukraine right about now
you'd be a lucky son of a bitch, if you were in Lvov the day when a truce is declared

I figured out 100 hustles to make money in Ukraine
for example, I'd buy stunning Ukrainian folk art work from top artists i'd find at these outdoor markets and get 500% markup re-seliing in the USA shipped via DHL

real estate in western ukraine is dirt cheap, you could for example build a micro-brewery for the price of two new luxury cars
and you have a pub in the front, and a penthouse on top
for that price, which is CRAZY

you make beer, you sell beer and you have a place to live
every woman who lives nearby will know who you are and will have tried some of yur beer or will want to

la pooty tang will all come to you mon ami
cuz that's what it's been programmed by a million years of evolution to do

disclaimer: i'm trying to get my wife to go buy a place in the carpathian mountains...a small cottage for $75,000
she's a former Ukrainian citizen, I have 2 Ukrainian grandparents, and can apply for residency and/or citizenship
I like FINALLY being TOO OLD for ANYONE to conscript!!!
you all took enough of me already
and for what?
for what?

it's why i'm sympathetic to the poor saps on both sides in Russ/Ukr
sucks to be them, I know

[ML]

ML thank you so much, that's first class English
So tell us which kind of reaction have you retrieved from the women with this sort of text?

Pat, I have never sent such a message to women that I was going to meet.

What I did was at end of message 3, I typed: Kiss to your left ear.
Next message Kiss to your right ear.
Next Kiss to your left cheek, then kiss to right cheek, then kiss to chin.

Most women had no comment.

Some said something like:  I wonder where you will kiss next !?
Some said:  I am looking forward to your actual kisses!
Some said something like:  Your words are a provocation; I hope you can follow through!
With these last three categories, I typed increasingly sexy sentences in my last couple of emails before meeting.
Only a very few women had a negative reaction.

I always tried to identify at least one woman who I would meet first based on her seeming like a sure fock.  I was never wrong in my educated guess.

[krimster2]

I'd eat a peach
and lick the juice off my lips
and not say a word
you do this right, and she'll get a little clit bulge in her shorts just like you would

je viens pour ton amour
dis-lui ça

you either get what you wanted
or leave empty handed and feel defeated

but tis better to have loved and lost, and all that...
but no more incertitude that must be tortuous
your love either lives or dies after that meeting in her territory
I would rather it be all or nothing
but not something in between

do you want me to predict the outcome, or can you already guess on yur own?
I can cast the I Ching for you
I have a special one that came from Poland
it helped me find Genizas all over Ukraine and I dug 'em up

if you were able to seek the Oracle
what question would you ask the Oracle?
the one question to ask, whose answer would show you how to solve this problem
what is the SMARTEST question a pensée personne can ask the Oracle?

eh?
quest que c'est?

what kinda cookies do you have?
ou eh le fig newtons? ya got anything like that?

I never ate any cookies in France
not a one

I feel like I missed something
can you imagine the freakin cookies they must have had at Versailles???  OMG!!!!!!!
what bothers me, is that i'm sure there's some place in France I could had it, but didn't know

no food in Moscva worth while
but you should go to Rasputin's
and see totally naked young Russian women, who on the proverbial scale of 1-10, would average 9.5+ and up
and they will sit in your lap
and wave their genitals in front of your face
for $100

it just so much reminds me of when I was a kid
and I got girls to play doctor with me
by giving them candy
and they would pull down their undewear and show me their miiror smooth "junk"
it really feels kinda the same
so it's kinda nostalgic in a way
I have a certain kind of affinity for viewing female genitalia
the way a florist appreciates roses
for me, it has a saluatory and calming effect as well as arousing

don't judge, it's just for entertainment purposes only (and it was expensible)
i'm not lookin for love in all the wrong places
cuz I was never, never, ever lookin for love

I wanted something other than that
and like most dreamers, will never find it
maybe like you, mon frere

sometimes the journey is the destination
and the medium is the message

one can never find one's dream in the real world
it will always allude you
you're chasing after shadows
in the growing darkness

ask the oracle the one question to light yur path
before the night comes




 

[Patagonie]

if she has too much baggage for her to move to live with youyes then that path is not going to happen
Yes   
so, the two of you are a "vacation fling" in Phukut 
no, me yes, her living here                         
and what happens in Phukut, stays in Phukut yes 
that's the phuqueing problem with Phukut meetings, n'est pas? so meet her in her home, and see what changes               
she is at home             
if nothing changes... then walk down any ulitsya in Ukraine, and proposition EVERY single woman you meet, be the boldest sex tourist who ever drew a breath in UkraineI know this sounds INSANE
but in Ukraine, this ACTUALLY WORKS!!!!
it just takes awhile
Ukraine ALWAYS blows my mind
 
instead of living a life of quiet desperation             
I don't live at all in desperation, far from this, I already explained that trading women for MGTOW and vice et versa gives a lot of versatility. When you have options you are not desperate.                     
you could approach single Ukrainian women, and desperately beg them for sex     I don't beg for sex, never                   
9 out of 10 will say "phuque you" but not the way YOU WANT                       You are right it works, a guy my father met in his prime time was doing this stuff in any party. He was proposing sex to any girl, when he was approaching a certain statistical number he was retrieving a positive answer.                 
then when the magic #10 appearsand she listens to yur spiel with arms across her breasts
and then nods her head and ends up taking you home with her

probability of success per social contact multiplied by the number of contacts
lower probability of success, as you get older, means you have to increase the frequency of effort, to maintain the same flow rate     
absolutely agree, more contacts, better your chances are 
be like a magnet fisherman on the bridge
and drag your self some place where there are lots of women
and see if any of em got stuck to you
I'm too lazy to chase after wimmin, this is the easy way

Phukut is a bad pickup spot for Russians on Vacation
Bad pickup for lonely westeners yes. Because there are mainly families. You don't want to pickup a lonely woman who is in vacation.I think it's far better to meet her in Russia.  But you have now a large growing FSU community here. And that's not the only place in the world. I was in Georgie, that was the same. You can add Armenie, Kazakstan and few others. 
now you see why
if I were you, I'd be in Ukraine, "doin stuff" and it should be trivial for you to get a room mate with benefits
what is it a 2 - 3 hour flight for you, you can even take the train             
Actually you don't want to be in Ukraine, that's a modern high intensity warfare and the level of risks is high on a daily basis. So you need good reasons to be there and I don't think that chasing ladies is a good one enough for the moment.However, when a political solution will be found, that's an option to consider. I was in Odessa at war time and I really liked the city. 

what kinda hobbies do you have?
what can you do with these hobbies in Ukraine   
an tell you more about this in private PM.  avec moi, you see the right path mon ami
becuz I see that now you are on the wrong one     
Thank Krim for your kind words, we will see, but definitively having a winter season in the southern hemisphere is one strategy I consider.
you must be as a carpenter
and only cut "with the grain"
and never "against it"
if you feel like yur cutting against the grain, then yur doin it wrong
and it ain't the wood's fault
it's yur lack of carpentry experience

I thought you French were supposed to be the "master carpenters of amour"
so if even you're having problems, that doesn't sound good for the Anglos

well...

PS

in a big city in Ukraine
go into a busy cafe, with a lot of women
order something and sit

take out an unopened letter
open it and read it
and start crying

50/50 you get laid that night   
interesting  
PS
my wife likes Edith Pilaf's voice, but not french men
I think Pilaf is too nasal...NOOOOS SOOOOOMES sounds like she's warning ships to me
no, I love Pilaf, I really liked Toulouse, a mixture of a medevil cathedral and silicon valley
yep really too nasal, nothing to do with French lovers
c'est question?
ok...yur urinating in a Pissoir, and for some reason, it doesn't block the view completely
there's a 30 cm gap at the bottom
where people walkin buy can see yur shoulders and the last 12 inches of yur urine stream
ok...
so while yur "busy"
a group of women walk by and look at ya, and then start whispering and laughing
WTF?
and NO, I wasn't peeing on my feet

all I'm saying is I'd just think there should be rules about that sort of thing
in Russia, it's the opposite, I musta accidentally run into a couple of dozen Russian women squatting to take a leak
some of them I scared really badly, scared the shit out of them, which came flyin out as they jumped in the air and screamed

who flung dung?
that woman there!!
and all I was trying to do was walk home, taking a shortcut through the weeds
when all of a sudden I see this woman's butt jump out at me
and she farts...then I yell and she screams and runs away with her pants down
and in the summer, this happened at least once per month

[Patagonie]

Pat, I have never sent such a message to women that I was going to meet.

What I did was at end of message 3, I typed: Kiss to your left ear.
Next message Kiss to your right ear.
Next Kiss to your left cheek, then kiss to right cheek, then kiss to chin.

Most women had no comment.

Some said something like:  I wonder where you will kiss next !?
Some said:  I am looking forward to your actual kisses!
Some said something like:  Your words are a provocation; I hope you can follow through!
With these last three categories, I typed increasingly sexy sentences in my last couple of emails before meeting.
Only a very few women had a negative reaction.

I always tried to identify at least one woman who I would meet first based on her seeming like a sure fock.  I was never wrong in my educated guess.

 
Yep of course this type of message is not suited to a first meeting       
You were doing good with this strategy of kisses

[krimster2]

my probability of getting carjacked cuz I drive a luxury car
puts me more at risk in Houston, Texas
then it would be in the area maybe 20 km West of Lvov from Russian drones
you'd hardly know the war was happening there, mainly just by the news
giving you the luxury of living in a bubble, if you want to, I wouldn't
i'd be "involved"

and if you're surrounded by large trees that block drones and you aren't near targets
yur good

America is a much more terrifying place to live in than Ukraine
way, way more civilians die here from homocide then die in Ukraine (not counting military deaths) from the Russians
it's hard to believe, but True, France is "civilized" compared to this place
even my gun has a gun

and everyone here is PARANOID
and i'm starting to think they're ALL up to SOMETHING!!!

Americans are savages compared to Ukrainians, more comparable to low life Russian Gopnick gangsters but with WAY more guns
wait until Russian and Chinese intelligence services help rival drug gangs infiltrating the USA

I will have to hide somewhere again
FBI will be useless against cartels, since billionaire oligarchs do their banking, so they have political "cover"
and FBI is mainly lookin for anti-Trump people
CIA will fire all counter-intelligence Russian experts
and all Federal Accounting WatchDogs

All Hail Musk!!!

[Patagonie]

back Pat

I've been reading with interest but thought it better to say nothing until more information emerged.

You are a MGTOW and I am a Passport Bro lol

I get what the MGTOW scene can be about though. A guy wanting to be independent and not burdened down by traditional conventions of society, Marriage & Children, keeping your independence and ability to do as you choose.
correct   
All of that is very lovely but to most women it offers nothing. If you are looking for a LTR with a Woman and she is holding out on you perhaps the offer is not good enough in her eyes. Not you but what you are offering, a long term relationship with no commitments.
She works and have a good insight of what I earn. I hided nothing. So I think she goes forward for the moment

Companionship is one thing but women tend to want commitment from a man. She already has 2 kids (possibly more?) so she is probably wanting Marriage from a guy. Anything else might not do it for her. Paying for a nice meal at a nice restaurant to try and get your leg over Roosh style may not be what she wants. Plutonic companionship may not be what she wants also.

Her work/business plus children may keep her very busy (I assume the children are youngish?) so not much time to be distracted by guys not offering her much in return for a lot term relationship. There is of course the old 'sponsorship' approach of money for a long term involvement together. I think trying for a long term relationship where you just pay in for stuff as and when needed might not be what she is interested in but rather more a commitment if Marriage. From her point of view she will be spending valuable years with you in a long term relationship but if you are saying you are not committed to her and might leave at any time (when she gets old & not looking so good, when she gets argumentative, etc) she may see it as she doesn't want to be in that position some years from now and likely with her options diminished if any of finding another guy. That potentially does nothing for her but land her in a bad lonely place.
She has already spent most of her valuable years, and so do I. 
The MGTOW Scene fits a bit into the Western Dating Scene but in the FSU dating scene might be more of a difficult fit. She might just not be sure what to make of you and is waiting for you to make her an offer of something more committed that you already are. My impression is that many MGTOW in the FSU would tend to go for short term relationships, hookups over dinner dates, sponsorship or just plain out having a girl on by dangling commitment in her face but never quite getting there (unfortunately some men do that). 
It's important to not mixup MGTOW and FSU dating scene. 
 
I possibly think that maybe you are hoping to break with this and possibly it is not impossible but very difficult to find. I know if one woman in the FSU who is interested in getting with a wealthy guy for a LTR without Marriage or Children but for companionship, sex and him paying for stuff for her. However she is in her forties and risks aging out and I don't think she sees that coming. 
 
Trench all relationships are not ENTIRELY about transaction. Do you understand this concept and explore it?

[Patagonie]

my probability of getting carjacked cuz I drive a luxury car
puts me more at risk in Houston, Texas
then it would be in the area maybe 20 km West of Lvov from Russian drones
you'd hardly know the war was happening there, mainly just by the news
giving you the luxury of living in a bubble, if you want to, I wouldn't
i'd be "involved"

and if you're surrounded by large trees that block drones and you aren't near targets
yur good

America is a much more terrifying place to live in than Ukraine
way, way more civilians die here from homocide then die in Ukraine (not counting military deaths) from the Russians
it's hard to believe, but True, France is "civilized" compared to this place
even my gun has a gun

and everyone here is PARANOID
and i'm starting to think they're ALL up to SOMETHING!!!

Americans are savages compared to Ukrainians, more comparable to low life Russian Gopnick gangsters but with WAY more guns
wait until Russian and Chinese intelligence services help rival drug gangs infiltrating the USA

I will have to hide somewhere again
FBI will be useless against cartels, since billionaire oligarchs do their banking, so they have political "cover"
and FBI is mainly lookin for anti-Trump people
CIA will fire all counter-intelligence Russian experts
and all Federal Accounting WatchDogs

All Hail Musk!!!

Interesting. I understand the point.   
France starts to go south about violence and gangs. 
That's a mess. 

[Patagonie]

To make it short. 
I got this appointment.  3 hours left.

[Trenchcoat]

I've heard the same that the level of warfare is of high intensity in Ukraine. Ukrainian cities have tended to be hit daily although loses of civilian population tend to be of low figures from these strikes. If taking sensible precautions and decisions the risk is possibly fairly negligible.

The good news may be that Ukraine will become less risky to be in as we move through 2025 and towards 2026. This recent article is very good at explaining Russia facing a big problem with its front line Armaments shortfall in 2025:

http://theins.ru/en/politics/278468

It is likely that will have a big impact on Russia's ability to terrorise cities in Ukraine as it will likely be forced to focus more on it's front line warfare issues. So potentially 2025 may become the year to travel to Ukraine and find Ukrainian cities in relative peace. Maybe worth a thought Pat.