What is it about russian women

[edgeoface]

OK there is a forum dedicated to finding relationships with Russian women what is it about Russian Girls that makes men seek them? There must be something right? It must be quite major if there is a forum full of members dictated to the subject.

Please give me your insights 

[Sky_Blood]

As my fiancee says, Russian girls are way less demanding compared to western girls and more family-oriented.
Personally, i think many men are attracted to Russian girls looks
So like killing two birds with one stone - pretty+family oriented

[ML]

This thread will be almost identical to the one:  "Do I have the right idea about RW."

So I will put my same post here.

= = = = = = = = = = = = = =

You have a completely wrong idea about RW.  Although as others have written that you can find a variation  of women in every country, in general, RW will be MORE materialistic than western  women.  They will be MORE obsessed with designer clothes, etc.  And they certainly will use MORE make up and cosmetics.

And RW (much  more than your English gals) do think they are very special.  This is the other side of the agency hype coin.  i.e.  Beginning men read the agency hype and believe these women are special.  The RW are also reading this crap and come to believe that they are special.

And very importantly, romancing a RW will cost you much more than romancing an English gal.  Western gals are often willing to share expenses with the man on dates, trips, etc.  Not so with RW.  It is built into the culture that the man must pay for everything; even in situations where the RW might have just as much or more money than the man.

If you want to read some about the cost of trying to attain a young supposedly top notch RW then read Neo's story here: 
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=13138.0

Now, what you want to try to do is find one of the minority of RW who is not materialistic, and not obsessed with designer clothes, cosmetics, etc.  You could also try to find such a woman in England.

The major difference in your search for such in FSU vs England is that you can generally trade up in the FSU.  Trade up in terms of general looks, slenderness, education, culture, etc.  This trade up possibility exists solely because of economic conditions.

Note:  This is not saying that RW are better looking, more educated or more cultured than English gals.  It just means you can trade up to higher levels in FSU.

The only true advantage the RW gals have is in the slender category.  But then you must consider how long this lasts when they move west.

But this trade up potential will cost you a lot in terms of money (for trips and no cost sharing), time and frustration.

And, even when you think you have found your ideal FSU woman, you will come face to face with some major cultural differences including their ideas about spending money; both yours and theirs. 
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=13276.0

Is all the hassle and cost worth it.  Depends on how successful you are.
For me, the answer is yes because I have been able to spend quality time with several FSU women in their 40s who are 5 feet 6 to 5 feet 10 weighing 115 pounds or so (for the 5 feet 6 inch gals for example), who are physicians, dentists, professors, scientific researchers, middle management types, etc. and who are  not materialistic, obsessed with designer clothes, cosmetics, etc. 

But I have to do a ton of weeding to find these gems.  And still, most situations do not work out for the long run for the same reasons found in relationships in any country of the world.

[Vincenzo]

RW will be MORE materialistic than western  women.  They will be MORE obsessed with designer clothes, etc.  And they certainly will use MORE make up and cosmetics.

What's wrong about the desire to look like a woman, nicely dressed and wearing some perfume?

What about French women? Are they Western or not? They spend a lot on clothes, perfume, and makeup.

[Sky_Blood]

  They will be MORE obsessed with designer clothes, etc.  And they certainly will use MORE make up and cosmetics.

And RW (much  more than your English gals) do think they are very special.

Whats so wrong about being obsessed with designer clothes? Or do u mean they wanna make u to get them designer clothes? If so, it's different. There'r girls who don't know/realize value of things and take u for granted.
I realize how money is made. And I know that if say i have 2K in my pocket i can go get designer shoes but i will have to eat noodles, or I know i can save 300$ every month and get what I want, or just forget about it and get PayLess shoes. what I mean is that there's no equal sign between being obsessed with designer clothes and taking advantage of u.
Next, no offence but there r many girls who dream about their Wall str.CEO who d get her red Bentley and penthouse in Theatrical District(cars vary, locations vary - but for the most part LA NYC and Miami). When in Texas i met many hispanic girls like that, who dream really big but do nothing but seeking for a sugar daddy to make dreams come true. It doesn't make them good or bad, it's just their choice and their attitude towards life. No offence to hispanics, i just tried to say it's not only our girls
And last but not least...u seem to с it all from very um...business-like perspective. Like u wanna make good purchase without wasting money...but if u take girls as goods and marriage as market...what makes u think u can get different attitude back? what goes around comes around

[Rubicon]

Very good points, SkyBlood.  Many white American girls are also "Gold Diggers" as are Asian women.  In each society there will be those type of women and the men who will go for them.  I think most of us here are just regular guys, hoping to find true love with an attractive yet regular girl.  We want mutual respect.  How would you suggest that a man looks for a woman within his economic means, without it seeming like he is trying to "buy" a woman?? 

[Sky_Blood]

How would you suggest that a man looks for a woman within his economic means, without it seeming like he is trying to "buy" a woman??

Well...'buy' is vague. Like i know girls who think guys try to 'buy' them only if guy pays for dinner.Cuz i was surprised to discover that many girls r sure that foreigners are all about money and if they ask u out and pay it means they expect some nite-time pleasures back.
It all depends on girl's background, finance and experience with men.
Different girls...different conduct...different attitudes...some just wanna be bought, thats y become to suspicious and paranoic about it.
When in States , my Russian friend thought guy was trying to buy her after he paid for her at IHOP or smth of that kind...cuz she didn't feel right 'to let almost a stranger to pay for u'
The other girl was given a 5K car as a gift and she felt she totally deserved it cuz she s so freakin awesome
Well its a huge topic to discuss I mean I can ramble upon it for too long, so if u specify, I ll try to bу focused on few aspects so that it could be helpful or at least interesting not just blahblahblah

[chivo]

You have a completely wrong idea about RW. Although as others have written that you can find a variation of women in every country, in general, RW will be MORE materialistic than western women. They will be MORE obsessed with designer clothes, etc. And they certainly will use MORE make up and cosmetics.

I don't agree with this at all. Yes RW like designer clothes, last time I checked AW were quite OK with it too. I also don't see them wearing any more make up than usual. Who are you dating BTW?

And RW (much more than your English gals) do think they are very special. This is the other side of the agency hype coin. i.e. Beginning men read the agency hype and believe these women are special. The RW are also reading this crap and come to believe that they are special.

This just isn't true IMO. At least compared to AW whom I have known. I don't date agency girls, but I did many years ago and my experience hasn't been the same as yours. I'm sure they exist obviously.

And very importantly, romancing a RW will cost you much more than romancing an English gal. Western gals are often willing to share expenses with the man on dates, trips, etc. Not so with RW. It is built into the culture that the man must pay for everything; even in situations where the RW might have just as much or more money than the man.

If you throw out the flight and accommodations this also isn't true. I have had many RW pay for me or pay their own way.

If you want to read some about the cost of trying to attain a young supposedly top notch RW then read Neo's story here:
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=13138.0

Special case with Neo targeting a known gold digger from a notorious agency. Not any different than trying to get the same in America. Matter of fact having lived in LA I can tell you the women in Moscow are much more down to earth and real. I've dated many in both cities and much prefer the ones in Moscow. Did I mention MUCH prefer .

Now, what you want to try to do is find one of the minority of RW who is not materialistic, and not obsessed with designer clothes, cosmetics, etc.

All/most people like nice things. The minority behaves like this and it's a myth to think otherwise. Then again I'm not dating or meeting agency girls/women.

The major difference in your search for such in FSU vs England is that you can generally trade up in the FSU. Trade up in terms of general looks, slenderness, education, culture, etc. This trade up possibility exists solely because of economic conditions.

No again, the trade up can happen for other reasons like eligibility of good men for one, which I happen to think is the #1 reason.

The only true advantage the RW gals have is in the slender category. But then you must consider how long this lasts when they move west.

No their vagina's smell better too . Come on IMO there are other reasons like their femininity and demeanor around men, interests, frankness, etc., again making comparisons to AW in general.

But this trade up potential will cost you a lot in terms of money (for trips and no cost sharing), time and frustration.

You do live in another country, what did you expect?

And, even when you think you have found your ideal FSU woman, you will come face to face with some major cultural differences including their ideas about spending money; both yours and theirs.

Agree with cultural differences which I think is one of the biggest hurdles.

Is all the hassle and cost worth it. Depends on how successful you are.

Agree, and whom you meet of course.

For me, the answer is yes because I have been able to spend quality time with several FSU women in their 40s who are 5 feet 6 to 5 feet 10 weighing 115 pounds or so (for the 5 feet 6 inch gals for example), who are physicians, dentists, professors, scientific researchers, middle management types, etc. and who are not materialistic, obsessed with designer clothes, cosmetics, etc.

I've done it with RW in their 20's and 30's as well. Kind of goes against what you've said earlier and why I don't agree with much of the above.

And still, most situations do not work out for the long run for the same reasons found in relationships in any country of the world.

True

[Sky_Blood]

obsessed with designer clothes, etc.

I forgot to ask what u mean by designer clothes - like Tommy Hilfiger or YSL and Chanel?
just interesting 

[Rubicon]

Well...'buy' is vague. Like i know girls who think guys try to 'buy' them only if guy pays for dinner.Cuz i was surprised to discover that many girls r sure that foreigners are all about money and if they ask u out and pay it means they expect some nite-time pleasures back.
It all depends on girl's background, finance and experience with men.
Different girls...different conduct...different attitudes...some just wanna be bought, thats y become to suspicious and paranoic about it.
When in States , my Russian friend thought guy was trying to buy her after he paid for her at IHOP or smth of that kind...cuz she didn't feel right 'to let almost a stranger to pay for u'
The other girl was given a 5K car as a gift and she felt she totally deserved it cuz she s so freakin awesome
Well its a huge topic to discuss I mean I can ramble upon it for too long, so if u specify, I ll try to bу focused on few aspects so that it could be helpful or at least interesting not just blahblahblah

Most American guys do NOT think that if they pay for dinner they are going to get their way with the lady on the first date.  That is just ridiculous if a guy thinks that.  But on the other hand it could be a cultural thing.  One time my older brother invited a French lady to dinner.  After dinner she was all over him and went home with him for sex.  She had already packed an overnight bag.  Apparently at that time if a French women accepted an invitation to dinner she also was accepting an invitation for sex. 

On the other hand I think if a guy gives a girl a $5,000 car he is expecting sex in return.

So I think a man wants to be considered "generous" with Russian women, otherwise he might get labeled "greedy".  How can a man politely discuss with a lady how much he can afford to spend on dinner and other things, to gauge her expectations, without appearing to be cheap??

[Sky_Blood]

Most American guys do NOT think that if they pay for dinner they are going to get their way with the lady on the first date.  That is just ridiculous if a guy thinks that.  But on the other hand it could be a cultural thing.  One time my older brother invited a French lady to dinner.  After dinner she was all over him and went home with him for sex.  She had already packed an overnight bag.  Apparently at that time if a French women accepted an invitation to dinner she also was accepting an invitation for sex. 

On the other hand I think if a guy gives a girl a $5,000 car he is expecting sex in return.

So I think a man wants to be considered "generous" with Russian women, otherwise he might get labeled "greedy".  How can a man politely discuss with a lady how much he can afford to spend on dinner and other things, to gauge her expectations, without appearing to be cheap??

If a woman wants to sleep with a man it doesnt matter if he pays for her. If she doesn't - same thing. Pretty simple
All depends on lady and her background...like if its glamorous chick from Moscow or simple girl from smaller cities. So pick those whom u can afford.
Well, and as I ve already mantined, many ppl think that Americans are super wealthy, cuz opinion is based on Hollywood movies. next, even if woman knows u r say middle-class and make idk 60K(as an example) she most likely doesnt know how much are taxes, insurance, bills, retirement savings, loans u pay off. So it seems to her that u have 5K a month in ur pocket so she makes conclusions out of this. And of course if u dont eat out every now and then in expensive restaurants u may seem greedy...If she doesn't know stuff it's really difficult to figuire things out. I d be offended if i thought my date has 5K in his pocket, but takes me to McDonalds.
So its a good idea to let her know how things work...not directly, but idk there r thousands way to explain that its not like they show it in movies. To my mind, honesty is best policy.
It's better to let her know u arent Wall str. CEO(unless u r  ), and u don't have money tree or money forest right in ur backyard. Most women wouldn't ask for too much, but they may expect too much simply cuz they have no idea how things work - thats what I mean.
And my advice is again to have clear  idea of who u r and what kind of girl u tr to attract. It includes looks, background, finance, education..oh, and location. Girls would prefer West/East Coast to for example Southwestern states.
I wouldnt go for super hot pampered bitches unless I were super hot ripped tanned Californian dream guy with Ivy League degree. I wouldn't go for girls from big cities.
And well I wouldn't be concentrated on money issues that much...if girl seeks for sincere relationships its not her main concern. Get her flowers if u can afford, ask her out and pay if u can afford(at least few times, if she refuses to accept tell her u r a man and very persistant one so she has no choice but let u be a gentleman, as an option u can tell her she can pay for both of u next time and that its no big deal), get her small gifts. If its about u, not ur pocket, its attention that counts, not how much things cost.

[Rubicon]

Thanks Sky Blood, very good analysis.  That is a big problem I think for western men--that is to explain that we are not hollywood actors with multi million dollar salaries.  And some of us only make 2 or 3K after taxes, so Russian women do not seem to understand that we have to pay taxes, pay for medical insurance, pay for student loans, pay for credit card bills if we were foolish enough to run them up, and of course maybe pay for a mortgage note which is for 30 years.

So I think many of "US" are simply not qualified to marry Russian women because of the large expenses involved.  And because of the problem that FSU women have a really big misconception of western cost of living, bills, and desire to save for a retirement as opposed to being a Babushka selling flowers and horrible fish for pennies just to grind out an existence.  The only way some of us can meet a Russian or Ukrainian woman and marry her is probably to live there in FSU or move to some cheap place to live like Equador. 

Of course I insist on paying for dinner and I like to open doors, give chocolates and flowers.  But my budget might be just $50 to $75 for dinner, where some guys like to throw down $200 and up to almost $500 (like Neo--see his Trip Report--a risky proposition, an Anastasia girl in Odessa).  So how do we avoid the pro daters and good time girls and find a down to earth woman who can appreciate a conservative budget??  I have read that there can be just as many "Gold Diggers" in a small town as a big town; maybe more because they are desperate to get out.  Any more thoughts on this subject??

[Misha]

But my budget might be just $50 to $75 for dinner, where some guys like to throw down $200 and up to almost $500 (like Neo--see his Trip Report--a risky proposition, an Anastasia girl in Odessa).  So how do we avoid the pro daters and good time girls and find a down to earth woman who can appreciate a conservative budget??

One easy way is to not use an agency such as AnastasiaDate or whatever agency Neo used, and to not use money as the bait to lure women 

[Rubicon]

That goes without saying, yet I have heard that there are some Pro Daters on Elenas Models as well; and EM seems to be the most recommended agency on this site.  I wrote to one lady that I felt a Mercedes Benz was a waste of money because it's like buying two cars--you pay too much for the car to begin with, and then you pay enormous sums of money for the mechanic and insurance.  I told her I liked Honda.  She said Honda is a perfect car, so I think she understands my budget.  I would like to hear more from Sky Blood because I like her perspective, especially since she still lives in Russia.

[Misha]

That goes without saying, yet I have heard that there are some Pro Daters on Elenas Models as well; and EM seems to be the most recommended agency on this site.

I am sure there are many there as well. As for the prodaters, the solution is simple IMHO: don't spend the money. If you are inviting a woman out, and if you are the one paying, then you have the final say as to where you eat. If a woman wants to eat at the most expensive restaurant and there order the most expensive bottle of champagne, it is your right to say no. Likewise, it is also your prerogative to not buy expensive gifts.

[chivo]

I am sure there are many there as well. As for the prodaters, the solution is simple IMHO: don't spend the money. If you are inviting a woman out, and if you are the one paying, then you have the final say as to where you eat. If a woman wants to eat at the most expensive restaurant and there order the most expensive bottle of champagne, it is your right to say no. Likewise, it is also your prerogative to not buy expensive gifts.

Quite simple isn't it.
 
 
 
 

[Sky_Blood]

  I would like to hear more from Sky Blood because I like her perspective, especially since she still lives in Russia.

Well I really liked and appreciated when I and my fiancee went to eat out to sushi bars. We had like 30 bucks budget and I was more than happy. I belong to lower middle-class, and for me it's just what I m used to. But if I belonged to upper middle class, I would prolly have had different view on dinner budget. Its also very likely that many ladies make like 500$ a month so they cant even afford Burger King Meal, so they would appreciate anything better than that. And I should say many girls are like that...when it all begins, but later...its like a snowball the more u give, the more she demands. Especially when men try to impress...like u say spending 200$ for a dinner...what should a girl think if u spend 200$ for regular dinner( i mean not special event)? She thinks that u r either insane or wealthy. So showing off isn't a good idea.
For Russian girls 50$ for dinner is OK and most of girls cant afford it, so it would be appreciated
As for small and big cities, I can't agree. No doubt there r different people everywhere...but...in small cities if one has 20-30K car he s considered to be cool, so its like what girls think is  beyond their wildest dreams. And if big cities...well I am in Ekaterinburg now, and while I was waiting for my bus(7 mins) one Bentley passed by, 3 Porsches Cayennes, 1 Infinity XF 45, 1 BMW X6 - does it make my point clear? Girls from big cities see more luxury around them, so luxury becomes something u think u do deserve too...and then u start thinking that BMWX6 isn't luxury, while Bentley is luxury...and then Bentley loses its cahrm and u start thinking about Maybach. same with clothes, houses...
yes girls from small cities sometimes r kinda desperate about getting out, but they d be more than satisfied with ur Honda

[Muzh]

And last but not least...u seem to с it all from very um...business-like perspective. Like u wanna make good purchase without wasting money...but if u take girls as goods and marriage as market...what makes u think u can get different attitude back? what goes around comes around

Not singling out ML but, that was absolutely beautiful. 

[Muzh]

Most American guys do NOT think that if they pay for dinner they are going to get their way with the lady on the first date.  That is just ridiculous if a guy thinks that. 
 

You must be the exception to the rule. I hate to tell you this but EVERY guy I know who is doing the dating scene will bitch all day long if he took a date out to dinner and all he got was a kiss. They'll bitch about how much they paid. Actually, they'll bitch about this first. They'll bitch about a waste of good manners. They'll just bitch because they didn't get laid after dinner.
 
Now, if he got laid, get ready for Penthouse letters. What a slut.
 
 

So I think a man wants to be considered "generous" with Russian women, otherwise he might get labeled "greedy".  How can a man politely discuss with a lady how much he can afford to spend on dinner and other things, to gauge her expectations, without appearing to be cheap??

Do not discuss anything and don't think about it. If you are not greedy she'll know right away. A leapord cannot change his spots.

[Muzh]

If a woman wants to sleep with a man it doesnt matter if he pays for her. If she doesn't - same thing.
 

That's a given.
 

Well, and as I ve already mantined, many ppl think that Americans are super wealthy, cuz opinion is based on Hollywood movies. next, even if woman knows u r say middle-class and make idk 60K(as an example) she most likely doesnt know how much are taxes, insurance, bills, retirement savings, loans u pay off. So it seems to her that u have 5K a month in ur pocket so she makes conclusions out of this. And of course if u dont eat out every now and then in expensive restaurants u may seem greedy...If she doesn't know stuff it's really difficult to figuire things out. I d be offended if i thought my date has 5K in his pocket, but takes me to McDonalds.
 

Oh boy, this brings back memories. When I was courting my wife we talked about everything, including my job and she knew about my salary. On my first visit I was considered exotic. This was 12 years ago. They asked me a million questions and eventually asked how much I made. When I told them all I could see were open mouths. I knew I was in trouble. I proceeded to explain the taxes I pay, the insurance, the mortgage (that was another one), the machina, the price of groceries, etc. They just simply could not understand that spending $20 for lunch was NOT a miillionaire's act. That was then.
 
Now they know better.

[Muzh]

Especially when men try to impress...like u say spending 200$ for a dinner...what should a girl think if u spend 200$ for regular dinner( i mean not special event)? She thinks that u r either insane or wealthy. So showing off isn't a good idea.

Sky, here's first lesson in American 101.
 
Depending on the region, $200 for dinner for two is the norm. For mother's day I took my wife to an Italian restaurant for dinner. Cocktail, appetizer, bottle of wine, entree, dessert in that order and the bill came to almost $200.
 
There are other areas, even in the same state, where the exact same succulent meal would be under $100.
 
We are just middle-class.

[Rubicon]

You must be the exception to the rule. I hate to tell you this but EVERY guy I know who is doing the dating scene will bitch all day long if he took a date out to dinner and all he got was a kiss. They'll bitch about how much they paid. Actually, they'll bitch about this first. They'll bitch about a waste of good manners. They'll just bitch because they didn't get laid after dinner.
 
Now, if he got laid, get ready for Penthouse letters. What a slut.
 
 

I really don't know any guys like that anymore.  Maybe it's an East Coast thing.  Sure guys here would like to feel like they are making progress after the 2nd or 3rd date.  but wanting to get laid after the 1st date??  absurd.

[Rubicon]

Sky, here's first lesson in American 101.
 
Depending on the region, $200 for dinner for two is the norm. For mother's day I took my wife to an Italian restaurant for dinner. Cocktail, appetizer, bottle of wine, entree, dessert in that order and the bill came to almost $200.
 
There are other areas, even in the same state, where the exact same succulent meal would be under $100.
 
We are just middle-class.

It's not the norm here where I live.  I took my mother to a very nice restaurant here, and the bill was $65 total.  Now she does not like to have an entire bottle of wine either, she just likes to have either one drink or one glass of wine.  I don't drink alcohol at all, and neither one of us likes to have desert.  So of course the bill would have been much higher if we had everything that Muzh had. 

[Muzh]

It's not the norm here where I live.  I took my mother to a very nice restaurant here, and the bill was $65 total.  Now she does not like to have an entire bottle of wine either, she just likes to have either one drink or one glass of wine.  I don't drink alcohol at all, and neither one of us likes to have desert.  So of course the bill would have been much higher if we had everything that Muzh had.

So it would be similar if we compare apples to apples?

[Rubicon]

Quite simple isn't it.

Quite simple that will also be your last date with her, if she does not get her way!!  But I guess that should also be fine with the man, if she is making him feel uncomfortable.  Some guys just have a hard time saying No.