Dr. Phil Show Attacks International Marriages Friday

[Admin]

That part is honorable. There's just the little part that is NOT honorable, and that is humiliating them in front of the entire world.

Yeah BUT - as Olga pointed out, these people are making what appear to be informed decisions. It is difficult for me to imagine anyone going on ANY televised program - especially a major network - and NOT expect they are there for the sole reason to boost ratings for the program/network. Then, any thinking person is going to ask themselves; How is MY appearance likely to boost THEIR ratings? If the honest and unvarnished answer is that the show intends to make a mockery of you or your lifestyle or your whatever - and you CHOOSE to go ahead and make the appearance - more power to you. That would not be MY choice - but I respect that it is the prerogative of others to make that choice. There appears to be no shortage of people willing to go on any number of programs knowing they will be held up to ridicule.

- Dan

[Daveman]

Some points that stood out to me in Mark's blog posting

We were coached that our part may not be long since there was no original plan for having a “successful couple” being represented in this segment on “Mail Order Brides”.   That should have been my first clue pointing to where this was headed..
...
Anna and I had less than one minute and I said, “Dr. Phil, although I appreciate the entertainment value of what has been presented here, there are a vast majority of us who met our wives overseas are caring and devoted men.” Anna simply commented that we’ve been married for more than three years and that we’re very happy together.  That was it and the show moved on.

And then from one of the comments from a guy who said he was there:

I was amongst the audience during this show, and witnessed some of the confusion of getting you two seated! I also now realize they failed to do a lot else- include you in the show! you actually had to jump in with the rest of the audience to put in you and your wife’s input on being a successful couple!...

So it would appear that they really didn't want a successful couple anywhere near.. what should have been a program of psychological anomalies of the human mind was instead psychosemantically superimposed on international relationships/marriage. 

To quote from the video beginning at about 01:55:

Dr. Phil: "Rachael says that men who go overseas for a wife.. she worries that they're just looking to get a subservient woman... Rachael what do you have to say about that?"

Rachael (to the man): "I think that you are controlling, bossy, a misogynist... I think there's a myriad of problems going on"

Little doubt in my mind that the show had an agenda to make such links from its conception. 

[OlgaH]

I'm not a fan of Dr. Phil. Honestly, I don't take such shows seriously and I don't watch them usually. Reading through the comments I posted I got a slight idea what kind of people participate in such shows, and I agree with Boethius "who obviously needed psychological help".
I have not seen his show on MOB, but just have read on his website and watched some episodes
http://www.drphil.com/shows/show/1647/?preview=&versionID=

But again I tend to agree with Boethius regarding the participants, and I think Dr. Phil was not harsh at all and I don't see it as an attack. (but again I have not seen the whole show)

Why would people go on public to laundry their problems? For some it could be a lack of attention among others motives. But actually shows are made on people starving for attention and some kind of fame even 5 minutes.

[OlgaH]

Little doubt in my mind that the show had an agenda to make such links from its conception. 

Daveman,

There is only one agenda - to make a show! People with problems in Dr. Phil's show are a rating for his show and nothing more. Happy people and couples are not interesting to public who loves such shows, and he must keep his audience.

Do you remember even Leo Tolstoy said in his novel "Anna Karenina": "Happy families are all alike; every unhappy family is unhappy in its own way."

[Rubicon]

I'm not a fan of Dr. Phil. Honestly, I don't take such shows seriously and I don't watch them usually. Reading through the comments I posted I got a slight idea what kind of people participate in such shows, and I agree with Boethius "who obviously needed psychological help".
I have not seen his show on MOB, but just have read on his website and watched some episodes
http://www.drphil.com/shows/show/1647/?preview=&versionID=

But again I tend to agree with Boethius regarding the participants, and I think Dr. Phil was not harsh at all and I don't see it as an attack. (but again I have not seen the whole show)

Why would people go on public to laundry their problems? For some it could be a lack of attention among others motives. But actually shows are made on people starving for attention and some kind of fame even 5 minutes.

I've been a guest on a major TV comedy show, and I will admit that I did it because I wanted my 5 minutes of fame.  And I had to be very persistent, I did not make the cut the first time they had me visit, I had to make a new video and submit again and made the cut the 2nd time.  I was also surprised as how much the show was controlling and in my opinion had a very "liberal" type of control to it, but I still enjoyed the experience very much.

[Rubicon]

Yeah BUT - as Olga pointed out, these people are making what appear to be informed decisions. It is difficult for me to imagine anyone going on ANY televised program - especially a major network - and NOT expect they are there for the sole reason to boost ratings for the program/network. Then, any thinking person is going to ask themselves; How is MY appearance likely to boost THEIR ratings? If the honest and unvarnished answer is that the show intends to make a mockery of you or your lifestyle or your whatever - and you CHOOSE to go ahead and make the appearance - more power to you. That would not be MY choice - but I respect that it is the prerogative of others to make that choice. There appears to be no shortage of people willing to go on any number of programs knowing they will be held up to ridicule.

- Dan

When you go on a TV show you are asked to sign a waiver.  And you are kind of overwhelmed by the whole experience, and I don't think anybody reads or completely understands the entire waiver. 

[Daveman]

  (He forgot to mention "fat")

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qB025a4_RNs[/youtube]

Why, he surely did forget! 






Dr. Phil himself is actually a capable therapist. I used to enjoy watching his early appearances on Oprah.  Seems though that the competition for ratings along with an 'entertaining' narcissistic element in his approach (note the facial expressions playing directly into the camera, not present in his nascent appearances) molded Dr. Phil the show into its current form - for which the bottom line, obviously, is and always will be advertisement dollars. 


I'm just not really sure I care (to be frank) about the impressions anyone has about whether or not I marry a foreign woman.  I pretty much accepted from the beginning that many/most will think something is wrong with me (of course they're correct) and/or her (there must be)...  removing stigma serves no monetarily advantageous purpose so why would anyone (other than us) actually want to reveal a more realistic picture?

[milesaweek]

Many good points raised..are they going to be addressed?
 
From the "commercial members" is there some perspective?

[Ade]

In general, when I've caught a Dr. Phil episode, which admittedly is quite rare, I've liked the guy. Sure, he comes across as a bit "larger than life" in that quintessential American way but from what I've seen he's fair and pretty much impartial. As for the content, well, as Boe mentioned, this isn't a documentary show trying to present both sides of an issue, it's a pop therapy show with broken individuals as participants; if the [generally dumb] viewing majority take this as evidence that all/most MOB participants are like this then they are just doing what the dumb majority usually do - generalize and extrapolate hyperbolically from a very small data sample. And, TBH, I'm not even convinced that most MOB participants aren't dysfunctional in some way. Yes, perhaps among the married couples there's a more normal distribution of people but as we know, the numbers that get married in this game are incredibly tiny. What about the rest of them? Perhaps it's not such a stretch to portray the majority as dysfunctional individuals....

I haven't seen the show but I will try to get hold of it and perhaps I will revise my opinion.

PS - gotta be careful, I am going to have to change my moniker to "MoreJaded [than SeriouslyJaded]". 

Dan, do you have any tools in this funky new forum of yours to change my display name?

[Admin]

Dan, do you have any tools in this funky new forum of yours to change my display name?

Yes, indeedy. Send me a PM and let me know what you want it to be - AND - then I'll have to find another interesting user ID to use as a foil for my admittedly clunky attempts at humor. I hope my earlier effort did not offend you.

- Dan

[Ade]

Yes, indeedy. Send me a PM and let me know what you want it to be - AND - then I'll have to find another interesting user ID to use as a foil for my admittedly clunky attempts at humor. I hope my earlier effort did not offend you.

- Dan

No, I'm not offended. It's time to change though; I'm a little tired of people projecting too much into this SeriouslyJaded name I have and making all sorts of [incorrect] assumptions as a result.

[Anotherkiwi]

No, I'm not offended. It's time to change though; I'm a little tired of people projecting too much into this SeriouslyJaded name I have and making all sorts of [incorrect] assumptions as a result.

Is changing from Norway to Wales another part of this reinvention? 

[BC]

You gotta be kidding . . .

You acknowledge that what Dr. Phil *CHOSE* to show was; "a bunch of old, overweight, bald and stupid behaving goats chasing 20-30 year old FSUW and making fools of themselves," and follow that by saying you; "definitely did not see any kind of "set up" or "ambush" on Dr. Phil's part."

I guess it follows the old adage that people see ONLY that which they WANT to see.

Dan,

On the other side of the coin I have often pondered what the motivation is for asking to go on one of these shows.  I don't hold such folk in high regard.  Surely they picked those where the couple were most disparate.


I wonder what the pool of 'volunteers' consisted of..  May not have been much to choose from.


I did not see the program.
 

[Ade]

Is changing from Norway to Wales another part of this reinvention? 

I'm Welsh (actually, 1/2 Cornish on my father's side) but I've just not lived there for a few decades. I guess one Western European place is much like another to those across the water anyway.

[GoodOlBoy]

There's just the little part that is NOT honorable, and that is humiliating them in front of the entire world.

Those jokers were not victims.
They humiliated themselves on national TV.
Dr. Phil's only "guilt" in this debacle was providing a public platform for them to do it on. 
 
GOB

[GoodOlBoy]

GOB's 'hot button' for age gaps combined with his frequent oppressive cynicism....

Are you a Jerry Springer fan GOB?

It is comforting to know that there is a "little bit" of GOB in all of us.
 
GOB
 
 

[GoodOlBoy]

Even the two old silly goats looking for young RW....

Amazing, Marina used the same terminology to describe them last night.
 
GOB

[Bruce]

The only "Dr. Phil" I ever watched and enjoyed is the Sesame Street Dr. Feel vs Dr. Fill e.g. Haeye, eye'am Dr. Feel - No, eye'am Dr. Fill   .........enough said
 
Any network television program portrays American men and Russian women inappropriately.   Any network television program looking at overseas marriages has an anti-American man agenda.   Any man who participates in a network sponsored program is making a mistake both for himself and his family.
 
Now, if a bunch of us got together and had our own Youtube program that would be accurate.............................
 
For me, low profile is best for my family but perhaps the next time there is a new years cruise a video could be made for youtube and then the truth may really filter out.   Then again, perhaps Russian Women and American Men marriages should continue to be the best secret to long term family happiness !

[OlgaH]

Why, he surely did forget! 

Dr. Phil himself is actually a capable therapist. I used to enjoy watching his early appearances on Oprah.  Seems though that the competition for ratings along with an 'entertaining' narcissistic element in his approach (note the facial expressions playing directly into the camera, not present in his nascent appearances) molded Dr. Phil the show into its current form - for which the bottom line, obviously, is and always will be advertisement dollars. 

IMO Dr. Phil is a good showman, I find his facial expressions he plays to be natural, so he is not a bad actor and he looks pleasant (of course to me). I really cannot say if he is fat or not or how much he is fat.
Though for 60 y.o. man he looks good, but I actually agree with him, for the sake of what cucumbers a young Eastern woman would be dieing to be with him. 

[Daveman]

IMO Dr. Phil is a good showman, I find his facial expressions he plays to be natural, so he is not a bad actor and he looks pleasant (of course to me). I really cannot say if he is fat or not or how much he is fat.
Though for 60 y.o. man he looks good, but I actually agree with him, for the sake of what cucumbers a young Eastern woman would be dieing to be with him. 

Agreed, and that's the key point.  His facial expressions are all part of that.  My challenge is not as to whether the guys on the show are "silly old goats", or even men with serious problems. What I challenge are the inferences the show made (as quoted up thread), which he, as a licensed psychologist, left unchallenged, i.e., the men on this show are representative of all men who marry a foreign woman.  Even something as simple as "these are individual cases and are not representative of all men and women doing this but a small sample in a group thousands of normal relationships and marriages"..  any psychologist worth his credentials would have clearly made that distinction.  This is why I think part of their agenda (along with ratings) was to exacerbate the negative impressions when he/the show could have taken an easy, simple step to mitigate them - a step which it would appear they purposefully made a decision not to take.

[Boethius]

What I challenge are the inferences the show made (as quoted up thread), which he, as a licensed psychologist, left unchallenged, i.e., the men on this show are representative of all men who marry a foreign woman.  Even something as simple as "these are individual cases and are not representative of all men and women doing this but a small sample in a group thousands of normal relationships and marriages"..  any psychologist worth his credentials would have clearly made that distinction.  This is why I think part of their agenda (along with ratings) was to exacerbate the negative impressions when he/the show could have taken an easy, simple step to mitigate them - a step which it would appear they purposefully made a decision not to take.

Dr. Phil never mad the inference that the men on his show are representative of all men who marry foreign women, just as when he treats a teen drug addict he never states they are representative of all teens. 

However, let's face it.  There are a disproportionate number of men like those represented seeking foreign women from economically disadvantaged countries (compared to the numbers at home).   

[Doll]

 .  I am so grateful for all of the comments we got when we posted this article "Dr. Phil Show Mail Order Bride Disaster" last February when I lamented over this production. If you haven't already, PLEASE READ THAT ARTICLE and Share it to your social networks.


 



 

Mark, I guess the audience needs to know that you deleted some comments by a Russian woman on your site.
I read them, then they disappeared.
People are trying to "share" like you asked.
So, it only proves that there is "his truth, her truth and the truth".
There is a discussion on a Russian forum, women agree to Dr. Phil.
The divorce rate in these marriages is extremely high.

[Daveman]

Dr. Phil never mad the inference that the men on his show are representative of all men who marry foreign women, just as when he treats a teen drug addict he never states they are representative of all teens. 

However, let's face it.  There are a disproportionate number of men like those represented seeking foreign women from economically disadvantaged countries (compared to the numbers at home).

No but he did leave the inference by Rachael unchallenged, which for a man in his position, is the equivalent of saying it himself. 


As for "There are a disproportionate number of men like those represented seeking foreign women from economically disadvantaged countries (compared to the numbers at home). "   I'm not really convinced that is backed by the numbers in the divorce survey.  If that were true, it would seem that the divorce rate would be much higher rather than ten percent lower than the national average.   I would say that our forum here is more indicative of the cross section average players.  Sure, guys are seeking "more attractive" than most can get at home, and even younger, but that's a far cry from what was represented on the show.  IMO, it's the attractiveness of the women involved which causes most of the animosity.  Envy is an insidious monster lurking behind the curtain.

[OlgaH]

Daveman,

Honestly, I care less about an image of MOB. 

If I were a "Dr. Phil" running my show I would care less about some kind of fairness and representing 50/50 I would care about the show itself where the commercial part is the most important. "Cute old goats" and "manlymen" with their dreams and views are more entertaining like a comedy to public giving rise to controversy than "happy couples"  Image of "happy MOB couples" is the agencies' business.

[Doll]

Where did you get this statistic, Daveman?
Well, the "trick" is mostly about the stipulations regarding Green Card. Women often stay married till they can get it.
How are the numbers in 5-8-10 years marriages? After they get GC? Even if they are married (many of them) , it is because of kids to share (custody) and some economic issues.
Seriously, read this Russian forum- it is stuffed with sad stories.
Dr. Phil is really close to the reality.