K1/K3 stats, states of well being, etc...

[Rubicon]

Look closely at the emboldened and colored text and let me know if you see the contradiction.

- Dan

IMO the facts are that a higher percentage of FSUW cancel marriages to AM than AW cancel marriages to AM.  It may be difficult to back this up...


It is important for people to consider this when considering marriage to FSUW.  This is why I plan to live with a woman for minimum of 3 to 6 months either in Ukraine or possibly in Thailand or Equador prior to commitment for marriage.

[Admin]

IMO [shorthand for 'In My Opinion'] .....  the facts are that a higher percentage of FSUW cancel marriages to AM than AW cancel marriages to AM.  It may be difficult to back this up...


It is important for people to consider this when considering marriage to FSUW.  This is why I plan to live with a woman for minimum of 3 to 6 months either in Ukraine or possibly in Thailand or Equador prior to commitment for marriage.

So you are saying you do NOT see the contradiction, or . . .

- Dan

[Rubicon]

So you are saying you do NOT see the contradiction, or . . .

- Dan

Nope!!

the official statistics from the US government (uscis.gov) for the year 2003.

3889 K-1's (fiancée) entered the USA
 54.0% left the USA within 6 months
 28.2% left between 6 months to one year
 17.7% lasted more than one year
 
 1546 K-3 (spouse) entered the USA
 70.3% left the USA within 6 months
 22.6% left between 6 months to one year
 7.1 % lasted more than one year

[Rubicon]

 
 
 

[Rubicon]

Perhaps we should look for women from Georgia and Armenia.
from divorcemagazine.com:

Percentage of New Marriages which End in Divorce, in Selected Countries (2002) Country Divorces (as % of marriages) Sweden  Belarus  Finland  Luxembourg  Estonia  Australia  United States  Denmark  Belgium  Austria  Czech Republic  Russia  United Kingdom  Norway  Ukraine  Iceland  Germany  Lithuania  France  Netherlands  Hungary  Canada  Latvia  Moldova  Slovakia  Portugal  Switzerland  Bulgaria  Slovenia  Romania  Poland  Singapore  Greece  Croatia  Spain  Israel  Albania  Azerbaijan  Italy  Georgia  Armenia  Turkey  Bosnia and Herzegovina  Macedonia  Sri Lanka  India 54.9  52.9  51.2  47.4  46.7  46  45.8  44.5  44  43.4  43.3  43.3  42.6  40.4  40  39.5  39.4  38.9  38.3  38.3  37.5  37  34.4  28.1  26.9  26.2  25.5  21.1  20.7  19.1  17.2  17.2  15.7  15.5  15.2  14.8  10.9  10.3  10  6.6  6  6  5  5  1.5  1.1 [/t][/t][/t][/t][/t][/t]

[/td][/tr][/table][/td][/tr][/table]

[Rubicon]

This is a very interesting chart...
Notice that in the chart for "subjective well being" people from Russia and Ukraine are at the bottom--which begs the question--Are some people simply not capable of being happy??  And will this propensity for being unhappy lead to divorce??  In the case of Russians and Ukrainians that is far more true than in the case of people from Georgia.  I have no idea why that is the case!!

<blockquote>

 World "Happiest" Countries vs. Countries with the Highest Levels of "Subjective Well-Being"

The University of Michigan's World Values Surveys (WVS) has compiled data on the happiest countries in the world for over twenty years. Their results are considered the most authoritative by happiness researchers.
 
 WVS measures the happiness of individuals by two different means. The first is to simply ask them how "happy" they are. The second is to ask them how "happy" they are, and also how "satisfied" they are.  The results are then combined to arrive at a measure of their "subjective well-being," a term generally considered synonymous with happiness.
 
 Because of these two different ways of measuring happiness, some confusion arises in determining which countries in the world are happiest. There is support for the the validity of both measures. For example, former president of the American Psychological Association, Dr. Martin Seligman, uses the "happiness only" measure in his book Authentic Happiness.  However, Dr. Ron Inglehart, director of World Values Surveys, considers the "subjective well-being" measure a more accurate indicator of personal happiness.
 
 Therefore on this page I present the international rankings using both measures.

When individuals were asked:    "Taking all things together, would you say you are: 1. Very happy, 2.  Rather happy, 3. Not very happy, or 4.  Not at all happy?" countries achieved the following rankings (Dr. Inglehart has not released the complete list):

 

Ranking of the World's Happiest Countries[/t][/t][/t][/t][/t][/t]

</blockquote>

<blockquote>  1. Nigeria  2. Mexico  3. Venezuela  4. El Salvador  5. Puerto Rico  </blockquote>

 

<blockquote> <blockquote>

Ronald Inglehart et al. (eds.) HUMAN BELIEFS AND VALUES:  A CROSS-CULTURAL SOURCEBOOK BASED ON THE 1999-2002 VALUES SURVEYS (Mexico City: Siglo XXI, 2004).

</blockquote> </blockquote>

 
 

When individuals were asked the above "happiness" question and the results were combined with the  following question: (On a scale of one to ten) "All things considered, how satisfied are you with your life as a whole these days?" a ranking of "subjective well-being" for the following countries was achieved.

  <blockquote>

Ranking of Countries by Level of "Subjective Well-Being"[/t][/t][/t][/t][/t][/t]

</blockquote>
  1. Puerto Rico
 2. Mexico
 3. Denmark
 4. Colombia
 5. Ireland
 6. Iceland
 7. N. Ireland
 8. Switzerland
 9. Netherlands
 10. Canada
 11. Austria
 12. El Salvador
 13. Venezuela
 14. Luxembourg
 15. U.S.
 16. Australia
 17. New Zealand
 18. Sweden
 19. Nigeria
 20. Norway
 21. Belgium
 22. Finland
 23. Singapore
 24. W. Germany
 25. France
 26. Argentina
 27. Vietnam
 28. Chile
 29. Indonesia
 30. Philippines
 31. Taiwan
 32. Brazil
 33. Spain
 34. Israel
 35. Italy
 36. Portugal
 37. E. Germany
 38. Slovenia
 39. Japan
 40. Czech Rep
 41. S. Africa
 42. Croatia
 43. Greece
 44. Peru
 45. China
 46. Morocco
 47. S. Korea
 48. Iran
 49. Poland
 50. Turkey
 51. Bosnia
 52. Uganda
 53. Algeria
 54. Bangladesh
 55. Egypt
 56. Kyrgyzstan
 57. Hungary
 58. Slovakia
 59. Jordan
 60. Estonia
 61. Serbia
 62. Tanzania
 63. Azerbaijan
 64. Montenegro
 65. India
 66. Lithuania
 67. Macedonia
 68. Pakistan
 69. Latvia
 70. Albania
 71. Bulgaria
 72. Belarus
 73. Georgia
 74. Romania
 75. Moldova
 76. Russia
 77. Armenia
 78. Ukraine
 79. Zimbabwe [/td][/tr][/table][/td][/tr][/table]

[Admin]

this one has different stats--not a surprise.

The Difference between a K-1 Fiance and K-3 visa. 

What's better, a K1 Fiancee visa or K3 Spouse Visa?
On the downside, petitioning for a K-3 visa requires the following:
 

• You must marry outside the U.S. unless the foreign person is already in the U.S. In that case, there is even a possible better way to go.
• A Relative visa petition must be filed first. The K-3 visa petition is filed upon proof of that filing.
• Bringing a child along is more of an expense and hassle.
• There's more paperwork and hassles in preparation for a foreign marriage.

On the upside - The K3 visa advantages:
 

• The divorce rate is much lower with the K-3 visa. (Over a 10 year average), the K-1 visa cases demonstrate a 32% failure rate while K-3 visa cases demonstrate just 12%.
• The processing time for a K-3 visa is no longer than a K-1 Fiance visa. The process is much the same for a K-3 petition.
• Marriage in the presence of the family creates a bond between you and the family that cannot be equaled, because the family sees you as a true, legal member of the family. Why? Because they were a part of your marriage.
• When your spouse arrives in the U.S., he/she (especially a woman) feels family supported "destiny." This is not the case with a K-1 visa, since he/she married outside the family. See more.....
• Adjustment of status not needed for 2 or more years. When he/she arrives in the U.S., he/she is on a 2 year, non-immigrant visa. This means that an adjustment of status is not required to stay in the U.S. The bloody "Green card" is not needed.
• The K-3 visa is extendable for another 2 years. The K-1 visa is NOT.
• No adjustment of status ( "AOS" or "COS" ) required for work permit. A work permit can be applied for immediately. A K-1 visa requires an adjustment of status filing to get a work permit.
• No travel documents are required to leave AND return to the U.S. on a K-3 visa. The Fiance visa requires an Advance Parole/Reentry permit application to be approved before completion of adjustment of status. This is difficult and expensive!
• No commitment in having to file an Affidavit of Support along with application for adjustment of status, since the AOS is not required for up to 2 years (minus 30 days)..... and remember, the visa is extendable. Also consider, you can go through time in the marriage, after arrival, to decide whether or not it's worth committing to the ten year legal bindings of this affidavit of support!
• The high fees now required, can be offset by the time required to pay for the adjustment of status. The fees don't have to be paid almost immediately after your honey's arrival. Both can work and save to pay these fees. Can wait for up to 2 years!!

Before you leap to contusions on which way to go, K-1 or K-3 visa, give these things serious consideration. Yes, it cost's a lot of money and takes time to go through the immigration process. Most people simply see only one thing. "HOW SOON CAN I GET HIM / HER HERE !"  That's a major mistake.
 We know how you feel. Don't think I didn't also feel that way. Letting your hormones hijack your brain can be very costly. There's not many things as devastating as having gone through all that and end up in a costly divorce. That's losing twice!!
New foreign spouse trauma:
Our experience from chatting and polling many past visa beneficiaries indicates an emotional tolerance in assimilation you must reckon with. Ladies in particular, who have left their country and family behind, find it extremely stressful in following their husband's "teachings."
These "teachings" are things the husbands do to help their wives assimilate into our society and culture. Most importantly, marriage in American society. The lady in particular, is like a fish out of water here. Naturally she will tend to believe other fish rather than "this new husband." Men generally can't get this through their heads. So she will ask other fish how to do things. Many of these other fish are also in the same boat (no pun intended) and act as experts (human tendency) to advise the new arrival on how to deal with her husband.
The husband is off to work, she's told to "watch TV" and wait 'til he gets back. The husband can't fathom what's going through her head.
 

• What do I cook him for dinner (supper)?
• How do I work this stove?
• Where is the cabbage? What? No rice?
• How do I wash my clothes? I only have 2 suitcases of belongings.
• How do I work this #%&$* machine?
• What part of the bathroom do I use?
• How can I cook the kind of food I like?
• Where can I even buy it? And HOW can I buy it?
• How do I ask him for anything that involves money?
• Etc....... Watch TV? Is he nuts? I'm bored to tears of frustration!

Frustration like this makes the lady very sensitive to her husband's comments after he comes home from work. He's tired, want's to eat, do some lovey-dovey, and all she thinks about is answers to these questions, but is afraid to ask. When she hints at a few, he sounds a little terse. Damn. What do I do?
She feels trapped and not at all like he does.
At various times, she gets to the point of wanting to go home. To heck with it. He has no idea what's going on in my mind, and doesn't seem to care. I can't tell him without looking bad. What do I do. Go home...... That thought, and often the advice of the other fish lead her to do very wrong things. He gets angry and the problems snowball. Okay, I'll go back home.... but I can't. I'm trapped.
She calls Momma or Daddy. They advise that she be patient. He's family. K-3 visa proves it. He married into the family. So she thinks, "Okay, I can go home any time. I have a K-3 visa. I'll give it another day." And another day, and another. Ultimately they talk. She can go home anytime. She's not trapped. She has a K-3 visa. Two years.... Another day. They talk. It gets worked out and the marriage blossoms.
I've talked to many men in such situations who claim they "got it" and DON'T. "Time heals all wounds." Right? Wrong! Not all. Time can also fester frustration, bordom, and anger. Each begets itself. Marrying into the family and going with a K-3 visa is a valuable choice for the many reasons given above. The trauma example just given shows just some of what ALL foreign brides go through. No American husband of such, can really imagine what a shock it is for a woman, who isn't well versed in Engish, American idioms, culture, and appliances, really experiences. It's major TRAUMA, and he is oblivious to it. He only "thinks" he understands, and she will not admit she's totally lost, frustrated, and yes, angry. So she keeps her mouth shut and tries to be patient.
The K-3 visa has proven to be a major factor in this assimilation. That's why the divorce rate is so much lower. There's far less pressure to adjust - it allows the time.....
Some women prefer to come over on a K-1 visa, just to have the 90 days to check out the ranch. I can't argue with that. But remember, the IMBRA law only allows you to file 1 (one) K1 visa petition in a 2 year period. Lose this one and you have to wait 2 years to file another. Do it right the first time. Get to know the person first. Then a K-3 visa greatly reduces risk from a ten year financial commitment until you are sure the marriage isn't a scam or she has ulterior motives. See USCIS memo on K-3 visa petition regarding these limitations.
 
Section 832 (D)(2)(A) of the IMBRA Act reads as follows:
 Subparagraphs (B) and (C), a consular officer may not approve a petition under paragraph (1) unless the officer has verified that- ''(i) the petitioner has not, previous to the pending petition, petitioned under paragraph (1) with respect to two or more applying aliens; and
 ''(ii) if the petitioner has had such a petition previously approved, 2 years have elapsed since the filing of such previously approved petition.
 
 (B) The Secretary of Homeland Security may, in the Secretary's discretion, waive the limitations in subparagraph (A) if justification exists for such a waiver…." (Emphasis ours).
Flaw in the Law.... a consular officer may not approve petitions! USCIS officers do!
 
  A July 21st, 2006 USCIS memo, states: "B. Filing Limitations
 IMBRA imposes limitations on the number of petitions a petitioner for a K nonimmigrant visa for an alien fiancé(e) (K-1) may file or have approved without seeking a waiver of the application of those limitations. If the petitioner has filed two or more K-1 visa petitions at any time in the past, or previously had a K-1 visa petition approved within two years prior to the filing of the current petition, the petitioner must request a waiver. These limitations do not apply to petitioners for a K nonimmigrant visa for an alien spouse (K-3)."  (Emphasis ours).
Note - the law says, "....with respect to two or more applying aliens;"
The USCIS memo only says, ".... two or more K-1 visa petitions..."
Congress is saying 2 separate aliens, while USCIS is saying 2 petitions for SAME alien OR more aliens, by substituting "petitions" for "applying aliens." Such finessing of words is called "coloring the law" and is a federal crime!!
Back to top of page
 
 

>>this one has different stats--not a surprise.<<

I guess that is your entire point. If so, it is not necessary to copy and paste another webpage simply to make that point. If you continue, RWD will be littered with such tripe.

If you looked at that page you copied from, you might have noticed this comment:

the architect of Apex Visa Service which evolved from Life-Mates Introduction Service

It should not surprise anyone when they see an IMB site spouting statistics sans basis.

- Dan

[Rubicon]

Nope!!

the official statistics from the US government (uscis.gov) for the year 2003.

3889 K-1's (fiancée) entered the USA
 54.0% left the USA within 6 months
 28.2% left between 6 months to one year
 17.7% lasted more than one year
 
 1546 K-3 (spouse) entered the USA
 70.3% left the USA within 6 months
 22.6% left between 6 months to one year
 7.1 % lasted more than one year

Dan-

so what is your take on this information??

[Admin]

Nope!!

the official statistics from the US government (uscis.gov) for the year 2003.

3889 K-1's (fiancée) entered the USA
 54.0% left the USA within 6 months
 28.2% left between 6 months to one year
 17.7% lasted more than one year
 
 1546 K-3 (spouse) entered the USA
 70.3% left the USA within 6 months
 22.6% left between 6 months to one year
 7.1 % lasted more than one year

Welllll . . . let's return to your earlier assertion and see if/how they are supported, or not, with the stats you found.

Your earlier quotation was:

IMO the facts are that a higher percentage of FSUW cancel marriages to AM than AW cancel marriages to AM.  It may be difficult to back this up...


It is important for people to consider this when considering marriage to FSUW.  This is why I plan to live with a woman for minimum of 3 to 6 months either in Ukraine or possibly in Thailand or Equador prior to commitment for marriage.

Allowing for imprecise wording in your assertion, I will re-state it as I believe you intended it, which is -- planned marriages (K-1) between FSUW and AM are cancelled at a higher rate than planned marriages between AM and AW.

To support that assertion (assuming I re-stated your position correctly), you cite the fact that many/most of the foreign fiance(e)s that enter the US on a K-1 visa will exit the US within one year.

Does the cited statistic (focusing only on K-1 for now - we can move on to K-3 later) support your earlier assertion?

BTW - my post and question about your earlier assertion did not dispute that there are a large number of K-1 recipients who leave the country - I merely asked if you see the contradiction in your statement about holding an OPINION that you later refer to as FACT. I presume you DO recognize that contradiction, so have moved on to address the substance of your assertion.

- Dan

[Rubicon]

Dan-

Yes my assertion is that planned marriages between FSUW and AM are canceled at a much higher rate than planned marriage between AW and AM.  People considering this endeavor should consider that and try to overcome that possibility by living with the lady in her home country for as long as possible prior to marriage, or at the very least make several trips and get to know her over a long period of time.

What is your opinion on my assertion, and on my assertion that men should consider to live with the lady 3 to 6 months prior to commitment for marriage?

Dan said:
Does the cited statistic (focusing only on K-1 for now - we can move on to K-3 later) support your earlier assertion?

Please answer both if possible, Dan.

[Admin]

Dan-

Yes my assertion is that planned marriages between FSUW and AM are canceled at a much higher rate than planned marriage between AW and AM.  People considering this endeavor should consider that and try to overcome that possibility by living with the lady in her home country for as long as possible prior to marriage, or at the very least make several trips and get to know her over a long period of time.

What is your opinion on my assertion, and on my assertion that men should consider to live with the lady 3 to 6 months prior to commitment for marriage?

My opinion is that your opinion is  in this thread, and I encourage you to start another.

- Dan

[Maxx2]

Dan-

so what is your take on this information??

Could this include return home for visits? I do not see that high of a permanent return rate on the K-1s I've seen. If was to estimate it it would be about 10-20%

[Rubicon]

My opinion is that your opinion is  in this thread, and I encourage you to start another.

- Dan

please move my posts to a new thread.  please include my posts about divorce rate, and especially my post about subjective well being.  thanks.

[Daveman]

okay, split off...  actually this will be an interesting discussion.

[Daveman]

Dan-

Yes my assertion is that planned marriages between FSUW and AM are canceled at a much higher rate than planned marriage between AW and AM.  People considering this endeavor should consider that and try to overcome that possibility by living with the lady in her home country for as long as possible prior to marriage, or at the very least make several trips and get to know her over a long period of time.

What is your opinion on my assertion, and on my assertion that men should consider to live with the lady 3 to 6 months prior to commitment for marriage?

Dan said:
Does the cited statistic (focusing only on K-1 for now - we can move on to K-3 later) support your earlier assertion?

Please answer both if possible, Dan.

Of course you are asking Dan specifically, but aside from any statistics, I absolutely agree with this.  Spending as much time as possible face to face BEFORE applying for a K1 can only be beneficial.  Not everyone is in a situation to pull this off, but I think for those who can, the benefit of being able to grow the relationship face to face is invaluable.

[Turboguy]

Those stats were published here a few years ago and we had a big discussion about them.  They are meaningless.  That includes everyone who went home for any reason including on a A/P or after getting their green card.  I have never seen a stat on how many people come on a K-1 and then return within the 90 days instead of getting married but if I were to guess I would say about 30%.  I would not be surprised that another 10% or so get divorced quickly and the gal (or guy) returns. 
 
There is no way to tell the success rate of K-1's and K-3's from those numbers.

[Admin]

Those stats were published here a few years ago and we had a big discussion about them.  They are meaningless.  That includes everyone who went home for any reason including on a A/P or after getting their green card.  I have never seen a stat on how many people come on a K-1 and then return within the 90 days instead of getting married but if I were to guess I would say about 30%.  I would not be surprised that another 10% or so get divorced quickly and the gal (or guy) returns. 
 
There is no way to tell the success rate of K-1's and K-3's from those numbers.

As well, there is no comparison to any corresponding statistic for cancellation of marriages amongst domestic fiance(e)s.

While one may intuit that many, many engagements fail to materialize into marriage, I suspect it will be virtually impossible to arrive at any firm statistic of engagement failures.

- Dan

[Rubicon]

I would like to welcome those who are expert at finding relevant stats (as I am not good at this) such as GQBlues and Boethius to join this discussion and post some current stats which show how many women either on a K1 or K3 visa leave The USA without getting married to the man.  ie.  how many planned marriages fail.  if there is any way to compare that to stats of how many planned marriages between AM and AW fail (they cancel the wedding and do NOT get married).

I believe a very high percentage of women on K1 and K3 visas leave within first few months, maybe up to a year, without getting married.

[Rubicon]

I also wonder if there is a correlation between low "subjective well being" (a measurement of happiness) and high rates of divorce.  Russian and Ukrainian people are ranked as being very unhappy, and also have high rates of divorce.  Could this inability to be happy also correspond to a high failure rate in relationships between FSUW and AM??

[Daveman]

I would like to welcome those who are expert at finding relevant stats (as I am not good at this) such as GQBlues and Boethius to join this discussion and post some current stats which show how many women either on a K1 or K3 visa leave The USA without getting married to the man.  ie.  how many planned marriages fail.  if there is any way to compare that to stats of how many planned marriages between AM and AW fail (they cancel the wedding and do NOT get married).

I believe a very high percentage of women on K1 and K3 visas leave within first few months, maybe up to a year, without getting married.

I'm not quite sure what that means... the K-1 has a 90 day limit, and with the K-3, well, you're already married.  You are referring to those who leave either during hte 90 day period or divorce within the first year?   Of course, there is another category of divorcing/not getting married and remaining in the USA. 

I also wonder if there is a correlation between low "subjective well being" (a measurement of happiness) and high rates of divorce.  Russian and Ukrainian people are ranked as being very unhappy, and also have high rates of divorce. Could this inability to be happy also correspond to a high failure rate in relationships between FSUW and AM??

I hate to begin referencing the Divorce Survey again after the debate in the other thread, but the numbers don't show a higher failure rate than domestic ones, though that does seem to be the common opinion.  AND, it is also common wisdom/opinion that unmet expectations are directly related to many failures, which could relate to your question.  Of course, "unhappy people" is an ambiguous phrase and "inability to be happy" I take it are those who are never satisfied regardless of the situation (in any country/culture).  Yeah, those would certainly affect failure rates as marriages with those people purportedly have extremely high failure rates.


That being said, a closer look at the statistics would show a trend that the "richer" countries have a higher divorce rate than the "poorer" countries.  Options, religion, necessity play roles, but so do values, expectation, and IMO, an easier ability to live in the NOW which is where the states of happiness, satisfaction and contentment actually exist.  No statistics to back it up, but those who live in richer countries seem (to me) to have a tendency to put off happiness - i.e., look to the future or dwell in the past whereas those in poorer environments tend to truly focus on "today" and live it fully.  Like I said, this is MY observation and opinion, but it does seem to be so.


Anyway, kinda rambling, but perhaps something to get the discussion rolling...


I know of no statistics (though I haven't actually looked) related to canceled domestic engagements though off the top of my head I can think of several.  My guess would be that there is a higher percentage of cross cultural cancellations due to the nature of the beast, but it's only a logical assumptive thought which could be completely off the mark.

[Rubicon]

Daveman,

I enjoy your rambling observations, keep em coming!!
I noticed that people from Mexico are rated as being very happy, and also have a low divorce rate.  But people from Georgia are rated as being unhappy, but still have a low divorce rate.  it must be taboo still to get divorced in Georgia, regardless of whether or not someone is happy.

And there are women or men, who no matter how much they are blessed with good fortune, just whine and moan and never appreciate anything.

I look for a woman who is happy with what she has, and does not habitually think that she can only be happy if she can only get those expensive designer clothes, that Mercedes Benz, etc etc.  Because it never ends.  People do not own material possessions, the material possessions own people (that is to say, those who spend their life slaving away for more and more material possessions, instead of stopping to smell the roses!!).

[Admin]

I know of no statistics (though I haven't actually looked) related to canceled domestic engagements though off the top of my head I can think of several.  My guess would be that there is a higher percentage of cross cultural cancellations due to the nature of the beast, but it's only a logical assumptive thought which could be completely off the mark.

I hesitate to say (write) it, but, I think this is one of those areas where simple common sense would suggest that engagements, generally, *fail* at a rate far greater than the divorce rate - and applicable to domestic engagements or cross-cultural engagements. The simple reason being that marriage creates some impediment to divorce, whereas with an engagement, there is no legal commitment made and essentially no detriment when the engagement fails. As I am writing this I am reminded that an engagement that would result in a decision to NOT marry can hardly be considered a 'failure.' In fact, I would consider it a resounding success - though possibly painful.

FWIW

- Dan

[Rubicon]

I hesitate to say (write) it, but, I think this is one of those areas where simple common sense would suggest that engagements, generally, *fail* at a rate far greater than the divorce rate - and applicable to domestic engagements or cross-cultural engagements. The simple reason being that marriage creates some impediment to divorce, whereas with an engagement, there is no legal commitment made and essentially no detriment when the engagement fails. As I am writing this I am reminded that an engagement that would result in a decision to NOT marry can hardly be considered a 'failure.' In fact, I would consider it a resounding success - though possibly painful.

FWIW

- Dan

It is very expensive to fail at an engagement to a FSUW, probably much more than failing at an engagement to an AW.  What actions would you suggest to take so that an AM does not spend major bank and time pursuing an FSUW, only to bring her here on a 90 day visa, and than have her cancel and go home??

Also, do you agree or disagree with the survey that Russian and Ukrainian people tend to be unhappy, and could this negative approach to life be affecting their ability to be successful in marriage, whether in FSU or in a western country??
There have been several posters who said that no matter what they did for their FSUW she only complained and criticized and never appreciated anything, obviously leading to divorce and good riddance!!

[GQBlues]

Nope!!

the official statistics from the US government (uscis.gov) for the year 2003.

3889 K-1's (fiancée) entered the USA
 54.0% left the USA within 6 months
 28.2% left between 6 months to one year
 17.7% lasted more than one year
 
 1546 K-3 (spouse) entered the USA
 70.3% left the USA within 6 months
 22.6% left between 6 months to one year
 7.1 % lasted more than one year

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As TG said, this has been discussed before and I believe it was Maxx who first brought it to the table.
 
All those returning numbers you see are mostly (I am saying mostly "anecdotally". If you would like hard and factual numbers, I'm sure you can requisition DHS for this info under the FIA. I'm not being facetitious here either) beneficiaries returning home under the Advance Parole programs (for K1s recipeints), or simply travelling back home for K3ers.
 
If and when you get married with your FSUW (u poor guy), you'll appreciate the legitimacy of this information a little better. Most of the ladies, if not all of them, are aware of AP as much as they are of 129F  .
 
The fact the numbers have a lower percentages for those 'lasting over 12 months' really only means USCIS are a little more 'efficient' in handling these paperwork than the spoiled US citizenry give them credit for.
 
You can trust me on that one, LOL.
 
Sure, 'x' number of those returning (K1s) may well be some disgruntled FSUWs who didn't continue with the fiance visa for whatever reason. But you'll do yourself a disservice if you assume those numbers represent Miss Disgruntled entirely.
 
Always remember one thing if nothing else...FSUWs LOVE their vacations..   

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"you poor guy"


LOL!!