K1/K3 stats, states of well being, etc...

[Boethius]

Also, do you agree or disagree with the survey that Russian and Ukrainian people tend to be unhappy, and could this negative approach to life be affecting their ability to be successful in marriage, whether in FSU or in a western country??
There have been several posters who said that no matter what they did for their FSUW she only complained and criticized and never appreciated anything, obviously leading to divorce and good riddance!!

Life in these countries, especially Ukraine, is tough.  They are ruled by corrupt politicians, abused by corrupt authorities, and have few avenues to complain.   As one example, the scandal du jour in Ukraine is how municipal authorities in Kyiv sold public lands illegally and pocketed millions of dollars. 
 
People are usually unhappy if they feel powerless.
 
I won't speak for Russia, but life in the West is very different than Ukraine, especially Central/Eastern Ukraine.  People have lived on that land for centuries.  The pace of life, and the way they live, is different.  It is not unusual to just drop in, unannounced, on friends.  It often takes immigrants a huge amount of time to adjust to a different life, a different approach, and some can't, or never do.  As for women being unhappy, I blame the man.  Either he:
 
1. Chose unwisely.  He chose a woman most FSUM would reject. 
 
2.  Expected her to "fall over" because of all the consumer goods he bought her.  But she was looking for what she considered a more "normal" family life.

[Rubicon]

Gator alluded to that in one of his posts.  There is a reason some FSUW cannot find a Russian man.  The Russian men pass over women who are inherently negative or unhappy--not to belittle how tough life is there, I believe it!!

As Gator says, many of these women are simply not saints!!

[Rubicon]

Life in these countries, especially Ukraine, is tough.  They are ruled by corrupt politicians, abused by corrupt authorities, and have few avenues to complain.   As one example, the scandal du jour in Ukraine is how municipal authorities in Kyiv sold public lands illegally and pocketed millions of dollars. 
 
People are usually unhappy if they feel powerless.
 
I won't speak for Russia, but life in the West is very different than Ukraine, especially Central/Eastern Ukraine.  People have lived on that land for centuries.  The pace of life, and the way they live, is different.  It is not unusual to just drop in, unannounced, on friends.  It often takes immigrants a huge amount of time to adjust to a different life, a different approach, and some can't, or never do.  As for women being unhappy, I blame the man.  Either he:
 
1. Chose unwisely.  He chose a woman most FSUM would reject. 
 
2.  Expected her to "fall over" because of all the consumer goods he bought her.  But she was looking for what she considered a more "normal" family life.

Addressing #2.

Money does NOT buy love, although many posters here imply that it does.  If she is the right woman for you, she wants your empathy and support to her in a new foreign land more than cold material possessions.

[Daveman]

...
 
  As for women being unhappy, I blame the man.  Either he:

 
1. Chose unwisely.  He chose a woman most FSUM would reject. 
 
2.  Expected her to "fall over" because of all the consumer goods he bought her.  But she was looking for what she considered a more "normal" family life.

and

Gator alluded to that in one of his posts.  There is a reason some FSUW cannot find a Russian man.  The Russian men pass over women who are inherently negative or unhappy--not to belittle how tough life is there, I believe it!!

As Gator says, many of these women are simply not saints!!

Which goes back to

...


 People considering this endeavor should consider that and try to overcome that possibility by living with the lady in her home country for as long as possible prior to marriage, or at the very least make several trips and get to know her over a long period of time.

...

The longer two people are in close proximity the less likely either one is to rationalize away warning signs which are usually present early on.  Seems the NiceAssometer rings much more loudly than the DanteFutureResidencyAlarm.

[Turboguy]

I just spent the last 45 minutes or so doing a little research project.  As far as a high percentage of K-1's and K-3's returning I think my little research project convinced me that this is not at all the case.
 
This is what I tried.  I went to the K-1 section of Visa Journey.  I went to the next to last page which was from 2005.  I checked on 20 different posters on the last pages and looked at their timelines and any information I could find on them.  I eliminated one poster who only ever made one post.  Of the 20 I checked 18 married their fiancee.  There were men and women in the group.  Only one from Russia but they were from all over the world.  Of the two remaining there was no evidence of marriage, one posted nothing after the approval of his K-1 (which could be that he just never updated his info) and one had no info at all.
 
I know some woman go back.  My first fiancee did but I now think the percentage is smaller than I thought it was before.   
 
It wasn't a large sample but I do think it blows a whole in the concept that lots of K-1 applicants go back. 

[Faux Pas]

Addressing #2.

Money does NOT buy love, although many posters here imply that it does.  If she is the right woman for you, she wants your empathy and support to her in a new foreign land more than cold material possessions.

Yet being a cheap bastid and a tightwad will get you label as greedy and marital bliss will elude you by most women and especially FSUW. Being tight fisted with your money and saving your way to happiness might work for you. Make sure you find a compatible likewise woman or both your lives will be hell FWIW


There's nothing wrong with being frugal if that is what floats your boat. It's just merely a way of life some people live. Rube you elude to money and possessions quite often on the forum. When you choose love over money or money over love, you will lose one or the other. Sometimes both.


 

[Rubicon]

Life in these countries, especially Ukraine, is tough.  They are ruled by corrupt politicians, abused by corrupt authorities, and have few avenues to complain.   As one example, the scandal du jour in Ukraine is how municipal authorities in Kyiv sold public lands illegally and pocketed millions of dollars. 
 
People are usually unhappy if they feel powerless.
 
I won't speak for Russia, but life in the West is very different than Ukraine, especially Central/Eastern Ukraine.  People have lived on that land for centuries.  The pace of life, and the way they live, is different.  It is not unusual to just drop in, unannounced, on friends.  It often takes immigrants a huge amount of time to adjust to a different life, a different approach, and some can't, or never do.  As for women being unhappy, I blame the man.  Either he:
 
1. Chose unwisely.  He chose a woman most FSUM would reject. 
 
2.  Expected her to "fall over" because of all the consumer goods he bought her.  But she was looking for what she considered a more "normal" family life.

3.  The man is not worthy of her!!  As GQBlues and others have noted, some of us men need to look in the men and take inventory, and make improvements.  whether it be diet and exercise, improving attitude towards women, improving understanding of cultural differences, trying to learn at least a few words in her language if not some conversational phrases, improving ones education, etc.

[Rubicon]

Yet being a cheap bastid and a tightwad will get you label as greedy and marital bliss will elude you by most women and especially FSUW. Being tight fisted with your money and saving your way to happiness might work for you. Make sure you find a compatible likewise woman or both your lives will be hell FWIW


There's nothing wrong with being frugal if that is what floats your boat. It's just merely a way of life some people live. Rube you elude to money and possessions quite often on the forum. When you choose love over money or money over love, you will lose one or the other. Sometimes both.

Per forum rules immediately stop calling me Rube.  you know very well that that has an entirely different meaning. 

[Faux Pas]

Per forum rules immediately stop calling me Rube.  you know very well that that has an entirely different meaning.

 


As you wish. How about Ruby or Rubi?

[Rubicon]

I am not going to reply directly to a constant harasser, I will only say that there are many members here who were frugal in their approach (Misha, DNeely) and who are happily married.  David Neely has pointed at several times that his wife is frugal.  Of course this does not change the fact that the man needs to show generosity in the appropriate situations and times. A man who saves his money so he can generous at the appropriate times with his close people is not cheap.

[Rubicon]

 


As you wish. How about Ruby or Rubi?

No Faux Pas, how about Rubicon.

[Faux Pas]

I am not going to reply directly to a constant harasser, I will only say that there are many members here who were frugal in their approach (Misha, DNeely) and who are happily married.  David Neely has pointed at several times that his wife is frugal.  Of course this does not change the fact that the man needs to show generosity in the appropriate situations and times.  A man who saves his money so he can generous at the appropriate times with his close people is not cheap.

A constant harasser? My statement was a general one if it struck a chord, maybe you should think about that.


You are posting on a forum Rubi, people will reply and respond to what you post. Put your big boy panties on and deal with it.

[Admin]

Let's veer back on topic guys.

- Dan

[Rubicon]

I just spent the last 45 minutes or so doing a little research project.  As far as a high percentage of K-1's and K-3's returning I think my little research project convinced me that this is not at all the case.
 
This is what I tried.  I went to the K-1 section of Visa Journey.  I went to the next to last page which was from 2005.  I checked on 20 different posters on the last pages and looked at their timelines and any information I could find on them.  I eliminated one poster who only ever made one post.  Of the 20 I checked 18 married their fiancee.  There were men and women in the group.  Only one from Russia but they were from all over the world.  Of the two remaining there was no evidence of marriage, one posted nothing after the approval of his K-1 (which could be that he just never updated his info) and one had no info at all.
 
I know some woman go back.  My first fiancee did but I now think the percentage is smaller than I thought it was before.   
 
It wasn't a large sample but I do think it blows a whole in the concept that lots of K-1 applicants go back.

Thanks Turboguy, excellent post.  If you do not mind me asking how much time did you spend courting your current wife prior to marriage??

[Admin]

Thanks Turboguy, excellent post.  If you do not mind me asking how much time did you spend courting your current wife prior to marriage??

ROFLMAO . . . .


It was a WHHOOOOOLLLLLLLLEEEEEEEEE lot longer than he wanted, intended, or planned.

- Dan

[Rubicon]

Read this part carefully FP.  Try to read and comprehend the message.  Stop attacking the messenger.

there are many members here who were frugal in their approach (Misha, DNeely) and who are happily married.  David Neely has pointed at several times that his wife is frugal.  Of course this does not change the fact that the man needs to show generosity in the appropriate situations and times. A man who saves his money so he can be generous at the appropriate times with his close people is not cheap.

[Admin]

Read this part carefully FP.  Try to read and comprehend the message.  Stop attacking the messenger.

there are many members here who were frugal in their approach (Misha, DNeely) and who are happily married.  David Neely has pointed at several times that his wife is frugal.  Of course this does not change the fact that the man needs to show generosity in the appropriate situations and times. A man who saves his money so he can generous at the appropriate times with his close people is not cheap.

Please allow Misha and dbneeley and others to speak for themselves. They seem to be quite capable.

As for Faux Pas' primary point, I think he made the point quite nicely in this post, when he wrote:

When you choose love over money or money over love, you will lose one or the other. Sometimes both.

- Dan

[Rubicon]

yes that part makes perfect sense.  The relationship needs to be based on love.  And both partners need to clearly understand what the parameters are.  A man and a woman need to have balance in their lives, and have similar expectations.

[Rubicon]

ROFLMAO . . . .


It was a WHHOOOOOLLLLLLLLEEEEEEEEE lot longer than he wanted, intended, or planned.

- Dan

All's well that ends well!!  If it took a long time, it must be worth it now!!

[Turboguy]

ROFLMAO . . . .


It was a WHHOOOOOLLLLLLLLEEEEEEEEE lot longer than he wanted, intended, or planned.

- Dan

That's for sure.  We spent a total of about 4 months together.  One trip to Barnual and then Egypt, Thailand, Sochi and a summer together in Grenada and Barbados.   We spent about 5 months in administrative review which slowed our visa down a lot.  We had another 2 months together in the USA from the time she arrived until our marriage and we have now been married for 3 1/2 years.  It's been a great 3 1/2 years.   She is on her way back home for a visit tonight and should be passing the NE part of Canada right about now. 

[Daveman]

All's well that ends well!!  If it took a long time, it must be worth it now!!

And that seems to be supported by what empirical evidence we have... this is the data chart for length of courtship.  This doesn't indicate the amount of face time (the earlier assertion up thread) but does indicate that time of courtship does make a little difference.

[Boethius]

LOL.  Just yesterday, my better half was telling me how "North Americans are obsessed with money.  When did this society change," he asked,  "so that your relations are built on money?"

I really think you need to worry a lot less about money, and more about the soul that inhabits the body you want to spend your life with.

[Rubicon]

Please allow Misha and dbneeley and others to speak for themselves. They seem to be quite capable.

As for Faux Pas' primary point, I think he made the point quite nicely in this post, when he wrote:
- Dan

I believe I have similar outlook to dbneeley, and nobody is calling him a cheap bastid.  Faux Pas needs to stop misinterpreting some of my posts.
exact quote from dbneeley:

Aloe, it seems clear you are quite different from my wife. As it happens, Ira has spent the last few nights perusing various websites for various beauty items. Her favorite lipstick, for example, is by the firm Clinique. Here, the only shop in Donetsk who sells the high end cosmetics charges about $25 for it--and Ira has spotted the same thing on the Internet in America for $6. We will soon arrange for a modest shipment of a couple of those along with some other things that are either very hard to get here or extremely expensive.

Irina is much like Neo's description of his former Russian wife--she is incredibly frugal in her outlook although she also has outstanding taste and an appreciation for quality. She simply refuses to pay the very high prices and finds methods of getting what she wants as inexpensively as possible. (The Clinique lipstick, by the way, was a gift from a friend of hers who works in the expensive shop.)

As it happens, I had an interesting visit some years ago to a cosmetic formulation lab. I saw a machine that was heating and mixing some sort of cosmetic cream. The owner of the facility asked how much I thought the ingredients in the mixing vat cost. I suggested perhaps a couple hundred dollars--and he agreed that was extremely close to the actual cost. Then, he asked me what I thought the resulting product would retail for. I was somewhat flabbergasted when he told me the total was many thousands of dollars. He laughed and said that for most cosmetics, the container cost much more than the ingredients.

Any woman who is spending two thousand dollars for "six months" of cosmetic items is something of a fool, IMHO.

David
 

[Daveman]

I believe I have similar outlook to dbneeley, and nobody is calling him a cheap bastid.  Faux Pas needs to stop misinterpreting some of my posts.
...

Rubicon, honestly, I read that as FP writing in general terms and not as directly calling you, personally, a cheap bastid...  at any rate, let's *all* move back on topic or at least a related tangent of interest 

[Rubicon]

Rubicon, honestly, I read that as FP writing in general terms and not as directly calling you, personally, a cheap bastid...  at any rate, let's *all* move back on topic or at least a related tangent of interest 

It's no accident that he has used this exact same sort of language after several of my posts on other threads.  it's a personal attack, and not welcome.

keeping the thread on topic:  I see that dbneeleys wife is "happy".  she does not rank at the bottom for "subjective well being" as other women do, no matter where they come from.

How do the veterans who have been successful at this endeavor think that they were able to attract a woman who could be happy with the life offered to her in America, the West, Ukraine, Russia or other planned country to live in which was discussed with her prior to marriage??