Re: Why FSUW Look Abroad

[Jooky]

Although the motive may be flippant, stated or unstated, which one of us whether male or female haven't at one or more times in our life thought about being swept off our feet by a handsome/beautiful mate and carried on a winged horse to some tropical paradise.

And what's the motivating factor in that fantasy, the handsome mate (prince) or the tropical paradise?

[BC]

And what's the motivating factor in that fantasy, the handsome mate (prince) or the tropical paradise?

From my POV the woman (girl) at that time and paradise..  Or maybe indeed paradise with a beauty.

[Jooky]

Ok. I've never had a 'swept away' fantasy, so I don't relate.
 
Just as a girl doesn't end up on a bride site for a specific man, she also doesn't sign up for a specific location.
 
So if the question is prince or paradise, based on women I've met, I'd say the motivating 'dream' is prince. Maybe you say paradise. Not what I've seen. I'll stick to most of the time it's just a whim (or the money).

[BC]

So if the question is prince or paradise, based on women I've met, I'd say the motivating 'dream' is prince. Maybe you say paradise. Not what I've seen. I'll stick to most of the time it's just a whim (or the money).

Quite OK Jooky!

[GoodOlBoy]

Just as a girl doesn't end up on a bride site for a specific man, she also doesn't sign up for a specific location.

Sorry Jooky, but that is not true.

I have seen to many FSUW advertise for a specific region (Europe only) and sometimes a specific country (Greece, Spain, Italy, The GoodOl' USA only, etc.)
 
Hell, GOB has even seen specific states mentioned (NY, CA, FL, and my all time favorite "NO villages").
 
It is only rank speculation on my part, but I believe these particular women have a personal agenda (and it ain't "pure love").
 
Which, IMO, also goes hand in hand with what GQ is saying and what others here in this thread are trying to deny.
 
GOB

[CanadaMan]

Take the same whole sentence, with same emphasis you added to different parts:

Quote<blockquote>Women in marriage agencies aren't 'doing it for anyone' (moving to another country) except themselves when they decided to make themselves available on the international marriage scene.</blockquote>
Quote<blockquote>Women in marriage agencies aren't 'doing it for anyone' (moving to another country) except themselves when they decided to make themselves available on the international marriage scene.</blockquote>

BC I read that paragraph very carefully before I replied to GQ.
I looked at all the possible ways to place emphasis in it.

I looked at your last suggestion too.

That is why I added a *second factor* that women who sign up at agencies (and those who search on their own) also consider.

I conceded, using the emphasis that you have highlighted, that women signing up at agencies are in fact "doing it for themselves' when they decide to make themselves available.

But then comes the second factor.
The factor that GQ conveniently omitted.
Certainly the more important of the two.

Almost all women who sign up at these agencies will NOT emigrate from their country until and unless they find someone they love and who loves them.

[Faux Pas]

.

I conceded, using the emphasis that you have highlighted, that women signing up at agencies are in fact "doing it for themselves' when they decide to make themselves available.
.

Almost all women who sign up at these agencies will NOT emigrate from their country until and unless they find someone they love and who loves them.

That is an interesting take, twist and a torpedo to the generalization in GQ's statement. That is until you made the same "type" generalization.


IMO, the women's reason for signing up are so widespread and varied it couldn't possibly be covered by such generalizations

[Jumper]

Some are motivated by location, others by a person, and others by something else entirely.
 
I know RW and AW , or RM and AM ,that fit all of those scenarios.
 
In my experience to make any general assesment regarding women signed up in agencies in particular,
 i'd second Jookys notion that the motivation was often sprung by a whim or a friend doing so as well,a "well,why not" process.. or for immediate $$ being paid .A quick way to make some spending cash in some agencies..
 
often quite  secondary was the thought they might actually meet someone special, as indeed most are fairly jaded and feel the odds are slim at best at ever meeting anyone, much less someone they would fall for.
  I would say that most , when confronted with actually meeting a man they might have dreamed of, are not prepared at all,and had never really considered the realities of actually relocating.
Normally caught completely off guard ,and totally unprepared.
 
 
Now i'm sure some women are prepared, may even have a game plan.
Some do have a prefered locatiion, as GOB mentions i've seen m them list prerferences in thier profiles.
This could be simply a preference, or some darker motivation.
 
In my experience, far more have no clue regarding relocation, are either merely *working*, or if sincere , have such little faith or belief it could ever actually occur ,
that they havnt given actusal relocation to another country  more than 2 minutes of real thought.
Now that may sound odd signing up with a marriage agency.. but in reality is it?
Should they have? (with the realistic odds in place?) perhaps yes, perhaps no..
 
To think most have some initial game plan, seems very opposite of my real life experience with FSU women in this context.
For each one that had thought it through to conclusion,
(with whatever motivation,good bad or ugly)
 50 others simply wouldn't have given it any more thought beyond the remote possibilty that a man *might*  come to see them.
 
Your personal mileage of course may vary.
 
 
 

[Gator]

I simply do not see what you see...  He did not mention anything about desperation, basket cases etc which you did mention.  Just hits me like you'r trying to put words in his mouth that's all.

Sheeesh, it seems we are using a scalpel and microscope to dissect  GQ's words.  If so, I will zoom out and consider the broader context:
 
 
Salty wrote:
 

It must be very scary to move to another country not knowing anyone, not having a job lined up, no friends, etc....* jesus I feel for her...takes a lot of courage.*

GQ responded:
 

Don't get caught up on that silly hype, myth and silliness. ..... Sure folks get homesick, but they get over that real soon. There's absolutely NO TRAGEDIES in moving to another country you always hoped to move to. Don't be a wuss about this just because men chasing FSUW are. DO NOT even begin to think, if she in fact married you and move to the US, that she's doing this specifically for you. LOL, NO. She always planned on doing it and you simply became the wanton person that enabled that plan. Period. Women in marriage agencies aren't 'doing it for anyone' (moving to another country) except themselves when they decided to make themselves available on the international marriage scene.

I am not sure what GQ means by wanton person as wanton has many meanings, none of them confused for loving or noble.  Whatever, I had the impression that GQ wrote that FSUW move to America not for the man but to relocate to America.  GQ complained he was misinterpreted, yet he obfuscated his explanation and never stated that what he wrote was not clear.
 
As can happen here, everyone focused on GQ's  concept of "marriage for the country not the man" when GQ's point was that a RW's period of adjustment is no big deal.   And this  dissection is no big deal either.
 

[GQBlues]

- I hope a moderator can cut and splice sections of this thread 'out' of Salty's thread. IMO, the issue being discussed here is important enough that I believe it should be sent over to the Newbie section. Newbies need to understand how the thin line between reality is from fantasy and the people that makes this dictinction. It would be a service for the folks to know who they are taking opinions and advice from -

So anyway, lol the sleepy hallway for the neighborhood Moose Club all of the sudden came alive, didn't it?....
 
How many RWD members does it take to redefine reality other than what it is? Likely the same amount of RWD members who's been neck deep in the delusional muck they've been propogating on these boards for years. You folks are so drowned down into your own delusional world you could no longer make the distinction between what is said to what you *think* is being said, or worst.
 
I will ask again, how many amongst you can HONESTLY tell me your wife, gf, fiancee, inamoratas personally knew you and thus, YOU ARE the very specific reason why she (they) decided to sign herself up in an international marriage venue?
 
bullsh!t here: _____________________________
 
(I honestly didn't realize this was in fact a very difficult question to get a straight answer for, so yes indeedy, so please take your time)
 
You folks really do need to understand what is actually being said instead of huffing yourself up to what YOU THINK is being said.
 
In the meantime...

Do you know the law of holes?   In case you don't, the law is when you find yourself in a hole, stop digging.

So please Gator, as soon as you're able to heave yourself up from down there, share this juicy tidbit with everyone, will you?
 

We simply have seen different "realities."

LOL, that is more than obvious Simoni. Thank you very much for explaing yourself. LOL.
 

*I will be specific now in what I am taking issue with*. First off, who mentioned marriage agencies? Saltheart didn’t. Why did you bring it up out of the blue?

Read your first post in this thread: Reply #37 on: June 02, 2011, 08:06:34 PM. I thought that was your 'specific' issue, man? Is your sense of specifics a little bit off kilter? How many 'specific' issues are you personally stricken with, CanadaMan?
 
LOL! Look, let me ask you this question: how can you possibly understand what anyone is talking about when you don't even know what YOU'RE talking about? The rest of your post is nothing but irrelevant banter..
 

Most of the women i communicated with in my agency had NOT decided to relocate abroad. Their decision was to take a chance with international relationship or to give it a try and see what would happen and if they meet someone good.

Yeah. And most of the men I know who bought tickets to Russia had NOT decided to go to Russia...mostly they did it on a whim, or to see if there will be a reason to go...(RWs are pragmatic and matured, eh?) Try a little harder understanding what I* actually stated, please.
 

With a few exceptions (women who believe in predetermined destiny may assume that they enroll in an agency specially for a man), almost everyone else had clear understanding that their decision is about extending their chance to meet the right one, not about relocation although they certainly could foresee that if they met a right person, the question of relocation would arise.Certainly, i suppose  there are women who care only about relocation by any means, but i personally have not met such women yet.

LOL. Then tell me vwrw, did YOU specifically KNEW TurboGuy personally the day you walked into an international agency/service, and that specific fact is the SPECIFIC reason WHY YOU decided to sign yourself up to (that) an international marraige agency/service? (Is this what you told TurboGuy? ).
 
If your answer is 'NO', will you kindly help explain this simple reality to your hubby please?
 

Personally I think GQ is all wet.  I will say that in some cases past and present he is right on.  I think the women who attended the tour sessions back in the 90's when Russia was virtually a basket case probably generally would fit GQ's description.  Times were desperate, women were desperate and they were looking for a mule to get them to a better place and better life.

LOL. Well, it doesn't surprise me how well you know that time in Russia pretty well Turbo. I need not even ask, as I'm sure you were there doing church missionary work for the Sisters of Mercy.
 
btw, did that gal (who was 50 (?) years your junior) you filed a K-1 for, and came to the US, did so because the two of you were just madly in love? How long did that 'love' last? 60 days, maybe 89?
 

...Some do search for the reasons GQ mentioned.

...and what exactly were those I mentioned?
 

...Some may be set on an foreign man because they see it as an adventure.  Personally I believe, contrary to GQ's theory...

Huh? What 'theory' was that?
 

...that they search because they can't find a good man at home for whatever reasons or because they think they can find a good man and a better life elsewhere and they would be quite happy, even prefer to find that at home if they could, but they can't.

WTF? Where the heck are you getting all these from? LOL, It's little wonder you're having a hard time digesting the reality of what I ACTUALLY said in this discussion.
 
Boy-oh-boy! Pretty darn funny!

[GQBlues]

It's fascinating to me the hype and the myths being layed out from this endeavor by these so-called 'veterans'. This latest discussion clearly illustrates this nonsense.
 
What's the type? Well, a little gem by a relatively newcomer's perception of this endeavor.
 

Not simply relocating, I also think one must have in mind that many women on these sites search for western men because they have better values than most FSU men that are available to them.

Western men have better values than Russian men? WTF!
 
TG's kneejerk reaction to my statement was to use the word 'desperate'. Simoni didn't come too far away from the same in how he interpreted my statement (used the word 'mule' instead). Gator had always define FSUWs as 'survivors'. Man, they sure blurt these out like a bad case of soupy diarrhea every chance they get.
 
Now marry The Natural's quoted thought to other people's 'desperate' 'mule' 'survivors' thought bank and...presto! Welcome to the Wonderful World of the MOB!
 
 Then they try to make me 'own-up' to this stupidity? LOL. Spreading whipped creme over a pile of bullsh!t is still a pile of bullsh!t.

C'mon in all ye Newbs!!! Wisdom for 5 cents from your dulling knights in creeky armors!
 
Like Simoni said, it's painfully obvious 'we have different realities'...Yes, I agree beyond the shadow of doubt. Yup! yes indeedy! Every person's reality is indeed shaped by each person's perception of how they view the world.
 
Isn't it peculair how this seem to be foremost in men's minds when they attempt to discuss relationships/FSUWs surrounding the MOB? Even more peculiar is the implication or suggestion of the word need not even appear in the discussion at all for it to become a core focus of their debate.
 
Men act like Overlords for these 'desperate' 'survivors. I guarantee you, Overlords are an unpredictable lot. More times than not, Overlords will be the very same lot who'll likely deny the very process (marriage agencies/service) how they met their wives if ever asked in public. There are threads that exist in this board (and others) about this very subject to support that statement.
 
And you folks wonder why there's stigma in this endeavor? LOL.

[Jooky]

Sorry Jooky, but that is not true.

I have seen to many FSUW advertise for a specific region (Europe only) and sometimes a specific country (Greece, Spain, Italy, The GoodOl' USA only, etc.)

Hell, GOB has even seen specific states mentioned (NY, CA, FL, and my all time favorite "NO villages").

It is only rank speculation on my part, but I believe these particular women have a personal agenda (and it ain't "pure love").

Which, IMO, also goes hand in hand with what GQ is saying and what others here in this thread are trying to deny.

Sure, some women seek the location not the man, and some prefer a country or region. My comment was in relation to the comment about a specific man, which is silly in the first place.
 
Yeah, a gal doesn't sign up with an agency because of a specific man (Saltheart, Turbo, GOB, Me, whoever). Of course not. It's a goofy idea and that's why most posters here didn't take it as a literal comment but a general one about a woman's intentions (like I said, prince or paradise?).
 
But neither does she sign up for a specific location (Carson City, Bakersfield, Laramie or wherever she ends up).
 
So, taken literally it was a silly comment. Taken to imply that most women sign up with an agency with deliberate intentions to immigrate (as many did), it's not something I'd agree with.

[CanadaMan]

  Read your first post in this thread: Reply #37 on: June 02, 2011, 08:06:34 PM. I thought that was your 'specific' issue, man? Is your sense of specifics a little bit off kilter? How many 'specific' issues are you personally stricken with, CanadaMan?
 

My 'specific' issue is what you wrote in post #18

• "DO NOT even begin to think, if she in fact married you and move to the US, that she's doing this specifically for you. ..."
  
  
  You are trying to escape somehow from a corner that you painted yourself in.
  
  
  
  
  Gator it's very clear what GQ was saying.
  
  In post #56 he makes these points:
  
  1. Women signing up at international marriage agencies have made a decision to relocate abroad before they have met any specific man. ie. she's doing this for herself (signing up).
  
  That is pretty cut and dry.
  No one can have confusion about what he is saying here.
  
  
  2. A woman telling her partner that she "did this" (signed up at these agencies) specifically for him is bullshit.
  
  Again this is pretty cut and dry.
  No one should have any confusion about what he is saying.
  
  
  But he doesn't address what he said in post #18, namely ""DO NOT even begin to think, if she in fact married you and move to the US, that she's doing this specifically for you."
  
  
  THAT is the contentious statement that I and everyone has issues with GQ!
  
  You are trying to dance your way around it now by saying "Tell me that when she signed up at the agency she had you specifically in mind".
  
  Why would she sign up at an agency to find someone when she already had someone?
  Is that logical GQ?
  
  
  
  That contentious statement is a whole different kettle of fish!
  We are no longer talking about 'signing up' anywhere.
  We are talking about two people who have established a solid, loving relationship and decided to marry. YES, you better believe she is doing it for him!
  
  
  And I ask you again GQ, why did you introduce 'international marriage agencies'
  into the discussion when Saltheart never mentioned it?
  Do you even know how Saltheart met his GF?
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  

[CanadaMan]

 Yeah, a gal doesn't sign up with an agency because of a specific man (Saltheart, Turbo, GOB, Me, whoever). Of course not. It's a goofy idea and that's why most posters here didn't take it as a literal comment but a general one about a woman's intentions (like I said, prince or paradise?).
 

...So, taken literally it was a silly comment. Taken to imply that most women sign up with an agency with deliberate intentions to immigrate (as many did), it's not something I'd agree with.

It's funny GQ, but Jooky has no problems understanding this.

[CanadaMan]

IMO, the women's reason for signing up are so widespread and varied it couldn't possibly be covered by such generalizations

Faux Pas we weren't discussing the *reasons* that women sign up at marriage agencies.

No one was even discussing marriage agencies. GQ introduced it out of the blue.

Of course there are dozens and dozens of different reasons that one would 'sign up'

I was responding to one and *only one* issue that GQ brought up.

Namely; that a woman who marries a foreigner and emigrates to his country is doing it only for herself.

This is what he stated.
I don't believe it's true.

Do you Faux Pas, believe that your wife immigrated to the U.S. only for herself?
Would you find it offensive if someone says she did?

Did you BluesFairy, immigrate to the U.S. only for yourself?
Would you find it offensive if someone says you did?

Do you Gylden, believe that your wife immigrated to Norway only for herself?
Would you find it offensive if someone says she did?

Do you GoodOlBoy, believe that your wife immigrated to the U.S. only for herself?
Would you find it offensive if someone says she did?

Do you I/O, believe that your wife immigrated to Australia only for herself?
Would you find it offensive if someone says she did?

Did you Aloe, immigrate to Belgium only for yourself?
Would you find it offensive if someone says you did?

Did you Boethius, immigrate to Canada only for yourself?
Would you find it offensive if someone says you did?

[Boethius]

I'm Canadian born.  My husband is from Ukraine.  He would not have emigrated had he not married me, which was shortly after Brezhnev's death, and before the collapse of the USSR was even imagined.  In fact, he was not allowed to emigrate before the collapse, and was under KGB monitor.

I think that after the Soviet collapse, he would have either stayed in Kyiv or moved to St. Petersburg.

[GQBlues]

What's goofy to me are people like yourself trying to redefine from what is actually said to what they think was said. If folks can't understand simple literal context, then silly indeed they are to read more than what's on print.
 
Warning: Objects are closer than they appear.
Warning! Dead End.
Do Not Enter. Wrong Way
Adult: Take 2 tablets daily. Do not take more than the prescribed dosage.
 
What's even more goofy to me is when someone post contradicting posts in rapid succession.

Just as a girl doesn't end up on a bride site for a specific man, she also doesn't sign up for a specific location.

Sure, some women seek the location not the man, and some prefer a country or region.

So which side of your butt you're debating from? Literally?
 

So, taken literally it was a silly comment. Taken to imply that most women sign up with an agency with deliberate intentions to immigrate (as many did), it's not something I'd agree with.

Oh, how cute and convenient. What was it again you use to trumpet around here about the 'difference' between Mamba and marriage agencies?

[GQBlues]

....I was responding to one and *only one* issue that GQ brought up.

Namely; that a woman who marries a foreigner and emigrates to his country is doing it only for herself....

LOL. Previous response to your banter still applies. As is my expressed opinion of your capacity to comprehend what you read...

[Gator]

I will ask again, how many amongst you can HONESTLY tell me your wife, gf, fiancee, inamoratas personally knew you and thus, YOU ARE the very specific reason why she (they) decided to sign herself up in an international marriage venue?
 

 
 
 

 
 
I was the very specific reason why my ex-wife signed herself up.  Yes indeed! 
 
She gave up on me and wanted to find another man.   
 
Thus, I have responded precisely to your question.  Not what you meant?  Your question is absurdly obvious.  And it is connected to what you wrote originally.  Namely, don't feel sorry for RW in their adjustment period because they will get over it and they really want to be there.
 
However (there is always a "however"), you added in that initial post:
 
1.  DO NOT even begin to think, if she in fact married you and move to the US, that she's doing this specifically for you.
 
2.  She always planned on doing it and you simply became the wanton person that enabled that plan.
 
WTF is a "wanton person?"  Those two statements have little to do with exploring the option of meeting foreign men.
 
You normally write clearly, so if you meant something other than 1 and 2 above, just be a big boy and say so.
 

THIS IS GOOFY FORMATTING THAT I CAN NOT MODIFY.  QUOTES COULD NOT BE MOVED

[GQBlues]

LOL, nice try Gator.. here's the full context.
 
-DO NOT even begin to think, if she in fact married you and move to the US, that she's doing this specifically for you. LOL, NO. She always planned on doing it and you simply became the wanton person that enabled that plan. Period. Women in marriage agencies aren't 'doing it for anyone' (moving to another country) except themselves when they decided to make themselves available on the international marriage scene. -
 
Chew a bit more on the ENTIRE context instead of picking out what you feel serves your point.

[Gator]

TG's kneejerk reaction to my statement was to use the word 'desperate'. Simoni didn't come too far away from the same in how he interpreted my statement (used the word 'mule' instead). Gator had always define FSUWs as 'survivors'. Man, they sure blurt these out like a bad case of soupy diarrhea every chance they get.
 
Now marry The Natural's quoted thought to other people's 'desperate' 'mule' 'survivors' thought bank and...presto! Welcome to the Wonderful World of the MOB!
 
 

I consider survivor an admirable trait, compared to AW who could not cope if faced with the same stresses.  I am not talking about young 20s RW who were coddled by their parents, but by single mamas with no financial support from the absentee father.  Yeah, I know, your friends from the hood have it just as bad.  FYI, I don't date mamas from the hood (I can't afford their habits).

[Gator]

Chew a bit more on the ENTIRE context instead of picking out what you feel serves your point.

You are setting a new standard for intractability. 
 
WTF does "wanton person" mean?  If I were your English teacher, I would give you a D+.
 
 

[Boethius]

AW could cope with faced with the same stresses, and many no doubt do.  But Americans have more options.  If the options were absent, women would cope in exactly the same way.

[Turboguy]

Ok, I am with you on your confusing question now.  I will agree that it would be rare for what you are talking about to happen but I am sure somewhere in this world is a RW whose friend showed her some profiles and she saw a man who really grabbed her attention, wrote him and later they married but it is probably a 1 in 10,000 shot.
 
I went as far as joining a particular site to respond to one woman who interested me but that is the closest I came to getting anywhere near a situation as in your question.

[Jooky]

Hrmph? 
 
No contradictions in what I posted. Just like I explained it's silly to say a women signed up with an agency for a specific man, because of course she never met him,it's silly to say she signs up for a specific location.

She might be looking to move to a general location, even a country or region, but that's not a specific location.
 
If you're going to use the specific man argument, then it's no different than saying a specific location is down to the street address. If we're going to talk about a woman signing up with a general location in mind (Europe, Florida whatever), then we can also say she signed up for her general 'prince' and that turned out to be Saltheart or Turbo or whoever. Get it?
 
It's the same type of goofy word game you're trying pull, that's all. It makes me think of something AndrewFi posted a while back that made me bust out laughing... about how nobody challenged the 'facts' in his Death of a Bride report. Of course not, you can't challege the facts if there aren't any to challenge. 
 
I still maintain the differences between Russian personal sites, international dating sites, bridal sites and agencies (differences between all four), and I definitely don't recommend agencies these days. What about it?
 
I never said the reason most women sign up with bride sites or agencies is because they intend to immigrate. Do you make that claim?
 
I didn't catch how Saltheart met his lady in the first place. Did you?