Re: Why FSUW Look Abroad

[OlgaH]

You are setting a new standard for intractability. 
 
WTF does "wanton person" mean?  If I were your English teacher, I would give you a D+.

http://www.yourdictionary.com/wanton

The teacher asks the class to produce a word that starts with the letter "A"; Little Johnny happily raises his hand and says "Asshole!" The teacher, shocked, responds "For shame! There's no such word!" "That's strange," says Little Johnny, "the asshole exists, but the word doesn't!"

[Jumper]

• sexually loose or unrestrained: a wanton woman

 
lol, that was my understanding..
and I was trying to work in how GQ was fitting it into that context..
 
 
 
 
Most peoples actions are self motivated for their own best interest.Regardless if its a man signing up at a local dating site to meet local women, or a RW signing up at mamba to meet a local RM.
Or if headed to the Disco, fishing,golfing,  or the gym.
 
 
If single, she signed up at any dating or agency site , to better herself emotionally, financially or in some way?
so did the man!!
That wouldn't make any difference locally or cross culturally.
 
 
I don't get the hulabaloo..
 
 

[CanadaMan]

Most peoples actions are self motivated for their own best interest.Regardless if its a man signing up at a local dating site to meet local women, or a RW signing up at mamba to meet a local RM.
Or if headed to the Disco, fishing,golfing,  or the gym.
 
If single, she signed up at any dating or agency site , to better herself emotionally, financially or in some way?
so did the man!!
That wouldn't make any difference locally or cross culturally.
 
I don't get the hulabaloo..

You are absolutely right AJ.

Almost everything we do in life can be traced back to self-interest, if one tried hard enough and was honest with oneself.

Even when we help others, we benefit personally, by feeling good about it.


But when GQ came up with his infamous statement of:

"DO NOT even begin to think, if she in fact married you and move to the US, that she's doing this specifically for you. LOL, NO. She always planned on doing it and you simply became the wanton person that enabled that plan. Period."

He crossed the line.


Using the self-interest argument from above would just be a retro cop-out.

Yes she signed up with the agency out of self-interest. Crap, she didn't even know her husband yet!

BUT, once she met her husband-to-be and they both fell in love with each other, don't give me this crap that she sailed across the ocean "just for herself".

[Doll]

BUT, once she met her husband-to-be and they both fell in love with each other, don't give me this crap that she sailed across the ocean "just for herself".

Actually, if we talk "Why FSUW Look Abroad", then yes- because they decided to relocate. Then they find the "person" and make this relocation more specific.

[Simoni]

That's pretty cynical of you to say this GQ.
Are all you happily married couples going to sit idly by and let
him get away with it?

I started this discussion in response to CanadaMan's excellent point.   When people make untrue statements, they need to be confronted; otherwise, their words might be considered as true to those with little experience.  So this married guy did exactly what CanadaMan suggested and did not let GQ get away with his erroneous statement.


GQ did in fact insult the wife's here at RWD with his comments.  He in effect said they would have married anyone to escape their country, and that our marriages are based upon their selfish goals and not on love and common values.


There is no need to continue to challenge the guy. Rather, I'll make these statements:


~ Girls do in fact sign up for dating agencies hoping to meet a good man, and are very selective about who they go out with.


~ They are willing to move to another country if the right man comes along and they fall in love with him.


~  Dating agencies are indeed an excellent way for women to meet men and for men to meet women.


~  I see no stigma in a woman being involved in a dating or marriage agency.  Otherwise, I would not have used half a dozen agencies in my dating of FSU women nor would I recommend agencies to others today.


~ Agencies are but one way to meet foreign women.


~ Being willing to move to another country is a positive--not a negative.  Most men here, including myself, are attracted by the concept of an international marriage. So why the double standard? If it's ok for a man to be intrigued by an international relationship, why can't the woman be likewise intrigued?   I see my wife's sense of adventure in moving to a new culture as a big positive---not as a negative.


I'm much more open than GQ appears to be about couples and how they meet.  I know many couples who met through dating agencies, both domestic and international.  I know couples that met through mutual friends.  I know couples who met through Russian Classmates and Russian dating sites.  I know couples that met after the FSU woman was divorced in the US and married a second American man.  I know couples who met in social situations in the FSU.  Today I met a lovely girl from Zap in Ukraine who married a Greek guy--using a dating agency.  The list goes on and on.


Are there bad agencies?  Yes! In fact, most are.  Are there good agencies?  Yes, I know many.  Are there scammers in agencies?  Yes.  Are there girls who do exactly what GQ says they do?  Absolutely.  Are all girls in agencies like that?  Absolutely not!


Are men scammers?  Yes, likely at the same ratio as women.  Is it safe to meet Russian women in bars or discos?  It can be, and it can be very dangerous.


As you can see, I'm painting a picture of a world that is not black and white.


When one sees absolute statements, such as the one made by GQ, you have to wonder "what was he thinking?"


If writers would qualify with words like "most" or "usually" or "many," then we could not be having these arguments.

[CanadaMan]

Actually, if we talk "Why FSUW Look Abroad", then yes- because they decided to relocate. Then they find the "person" and make this relocation more specific.

Hi Doll. I'm not sure if you read the thread that this thread was derived from?
"Advice needed please" in Question to Russian Ladies.

Boethius moved a good chunk of the above thread into this
"Why FSUW Look Abroad" thread.

The initial thread had many elements to it and Boethius thought that this thread would be a good place to park some of it.

Please go back and read the original thread. You should understand
the arguments better in that light.


We/I am not questioning that some FSU women:

1. Decide to re-locate (if she signed up with an agency)
2. Next find a person
3. Re-locate

What I am questioning is GQ's statement that ONCE they are married and she is on her flight to her new home abroad, she is doing this solely FOR HERSELF.
Her husband doesn't enter into the picture at all.

And to add insult to injury GQ states that, should the marriage not work out,
the husband should feel guilty about it for the rest of his life! 

[CanadaMan]

I started this discussion in response to CanadaMan's excellent point.   When people make untrue statements, they need to be confronted; otherwise, their words might be considered as true to those with little experience.  So this married guy did exactly what CanadaMan suggested and did not let GQ get away with his erroneous statement.


GQ did in fact insult the wife's here at RWD with his comments.  He in effect said they would have married anyone to escape their country, and that our marriages are based upon their selfish goals and not on love and common values....

 Nicely put Simoni.

[Faux Pas]

Do you Faux Pas, believe that your wife immigrated to the U.S. only for herself?
Would you find it offensive if someone says she did?

The short answer would be yes. Who else would she do it for? Did she do it for me? I'd say no. Perhaps if I was a bit uncomfortable in the relationship (not casting any dispersions here) I might have to declare that she did it all and only for me. No, her coming to live with and marry me, she did for her. I'm not at all threatened by that. In fact I would hope that she did it for her and nothing or nobody else. Otherwise it's a charade isn't it?


I know I am completely and totally in love with her and I confidently believes she feels the same. The fact that she made that choice for her doesn't tarnish or soil that in the least.

[GQBlues]

You are setting a new standard for intractability. 
 
WTF does "wanton person" mean?  If I were your English teacher, I would give you a D+.

LOL. Unrestrained, whimsical, lustful....take your pick.
 

I will agree that it would be rare for what you are talking about to happen but I am sure somewhere in this world is a RW whose friend showed her some profiles and she saw a man who really grabbed her attention, wrote him and later they married but it is probably a 1 in 10,000 shot.

Finally! Thank you TG.
 

Actually, if we talk "Why FSUW Look Abroad", then yes- because they decided to relocate. Then they find the "person" and make this relocation more specific.

My Goodness! An actual RW who agreed and understood the very basic element of the statement and didn't get all hissy like a croc. LOL.
 

But when GQ came up with his infamous statement of:

"DO NOT even begin to think, if she in fact married you and move to the US, that she's doing this specifically for you. LOL, NO. She always planned on doing it and you simply became the wanton person that enabled that plan. Period."...

Which actually was in it's full context:
 
-DO NOT even begin to think, if she in fact married you and move to the US, that she's doing this specifically for you. LOL, NO. She always planned on doing it and you simply became the wanton person that enabled that plan. Period. Women in marriage agencies aren't 'doing it for anyone' (moving to another country) except themselves when they decided to make themselves available on the international marriage scene -
 

...GQ did in fact insult the wife's here at RWD with his comments.  He in effect said they would have married anyone to escape their country, and that our marriages are based upon their selfish goals and not on love and common values...

Which actually was, and I ::::yawn::::
 
-DO NOT even begin to think, if she in fact married you and move to the US, that she's doing this specifically for you. LOL, NO. She always planned on doing it and you simply became the wanton person that enabled that plan. Period. Women in marriage agencies aren't 'doing it for anyone' (moving to another country) except themselves when they decided to make themselves available on the international marriage scene. -
 
LOL. Simoni, instead of continually displaying your silly tendency to totally misquote and misrepresent that which is fully simple to understand...answer the simple question I've asked you previously.
 
Did your wife in fact KNEW YOU personally, thus became the specific reason for her in deciding that very day to sign herself up in an international marriage agency/service?
 
Yes or NO. It isn't that complicated even in your delusional world..it isn't a trick question.

I'll even add a juicier tag-Q...do you believe she sacrificed herself for your sake and cause by leaving all that she knew in her life just because of you AND ONLY and specifically because of you alone?
 
Now I will admit this one Q can be a fairly slippery slope, so...Read it v-e-r-y-s-l-o-w-l-y if it helps you any...if you want, you can even muse along with CanadaMan on the phone and figure this one out amongst yourselves...then get back to me, will yah? 
 

I consider survivor an admirable trait, compared to AW who could not cope if faced with the same stresses.  I am not talking about young 20s RW who were coddled by their parents, but by single mamas with no financial support from the absentee father.

Oh how touching...I'm touched! LOL...
 
Ironic however how in 2 sentences you very nearly shot this opinion to bits yourself.
 
Yes...FSU parents do in fact coddle their young 20 RWs, hell, even way, way past that age as a matter of fact, LOL! Heck, they even do that even AFTER they get married and have children of their own. Compared to AWs around here I know and see, I can't honestly say I know ONE AW who is coddled by their parents way past their adult life and/or married life. Do you?
 
As for stress management, yeah got me there hero, LOL. RWs always have their respective babushkas around to 'coddle' their young as well to help 'cope' with their stressful surviving life. I'm certain you need not wonder too long if this is a fact, no?
 

...Yeah, I know, your friends from the hood have it just as bad.  FYI, I don't date mamas from the hood (I can't afford their habits).

Too bad. I was under the impression you were into the whole survivor rescue scene?
 

...I don't get the hulabaloo..

I do.
 
When the body can no longer do what the mind commands it to do due to a person's advance age, they are left with only 2 types of reaction, flight or fight.
 
Unfortunately, due to the body's rapidly diminishing, thus limited, reflex to defend itself during duress, more times than not, a person of old age abandon all sense of reasoned response but rather assume an attack mode to mask their otherwise vulnerable condition.
 
Even if for simply the effect alone...
 

[GQBlues]

The short answer would be yes. Who else would she do it for? Did she do it for me? I'd say no. Perhaps if I was a bit uncomfortable in the relationship (not casting any dispersions here) I might have to declare that she did it all and only for me. No, her coming to live with and marry me, she did for her. I'm not at all threatened by that. In fact I would hope that she did it for her and nothing or nobody else. Otherwise it's a charade isn't it?


I know I am completely and totally in love with her and I confidently believes she feels the same. The fact that she made that choice for her doesn't tarnish or soil that in the least.

Perfect! I rest my case...

[tfcrew]

 
WTF does "wanton person" mean?  If I were your English teacher, I would give you a D+.

Won Ton ...A Chinese soup 
 

[LAman]

AS I read this thread, what was going through my mind was picturing RW joining agencies...for whatever reason( there are many), without ANY idea to what they are doing or where this decision will lead. For years now, I have read many guys have mention how INTELLIGENT RW are, it one of the first things that impressed them, yet for some reason walking into an agency
they left their senses at the door. Sorry if this is off topic a little.
 
It is very possible for women to 'prefer' a certain area/country if imigrating. Last GF was unsure about ever leaving Ukraine....other gf was intent on moving to USA her whole life. Current girl I am talking to, is open to leaving because she thinks raising a family in another country to have a better life.

[Anotherkiwi]

...I know I am completely and totally in love with her and I confidently believes she feels the same...

Of course she's in love with herself - what RW isn't?     I'm sure you just forgot to add "...about me." 

[Saltheart]

FYI - met my girl on EM.

With that said, and having grilled her a bit on this topic...her first preference was meeting someone in Russis, she was active there in terms of local Russian dating... and surprisingly enough she said RM's became aware of the MOB sites and she met some RM's through EM...As for geography, the US is 4th on her list of where she would like to live.  For her, meeting the right person is first, where she lives is secondary.  I don't have any reason not to believe her.  She has certainly dated better looking and wealthier guys than me who were very decent guys she just didn't love them so she nixed it.

[Ade]

 

3 pages of GQBlues the Grinch inspired BS. Seriously dude, playing with semantics and digging holes is what it looks like when your intention, as far as I can tell, was to give SH a poke and deliberately take something away from him.

As other have said, the literal meaning of your original statement was nonsensical and just plain silly but its intended meaning was to be disparaging. Deny it all you like, which I guess you will going by the 3 pages so far. 

[The Natural]

It's fascinating to me the hype and the myths being layed out from this endeavor by these so-called 'veterans'. This latest discussion clearly illustrates this nonsense.
 
What's the type? Well, a little gem by a relatively newcomer's perception of this endeavor.
 
  Quote from: The Natural <blockquote> Not simply relocating, I also think one must have in mind that many women on these sites search for western men because they have better values than most FSU men that are available to them.
 
 
Western men have better values than Russian men? WTF!
 
TG's kneejerk reaction to my statement was to use the word 'desperate'. Simoni didn't come too far away from the same in how he interpreted my statement (used the word 'mule' instead). Gator had always define FSUWs as 'survivors'. Man, they sure blurt these out like a bad case of soupy diarrhea every chance they get.
 
Now marry The Natural's quoted thought to other people's 'desperate' 'mule' 'survivors' thought bank and...presto! Welcome to the Wonderful World of the MOB!
 
 Then they try to make me 'own-up' to this stupidity? LOL. Spreading whipped creme over a pile of bullsh!t is still a pile of bullsh!t.

C'mon in all ye Newbs!!! Wisdom for 5 cents from your dulling knights in creeky armors!
 

So now you drag me too into your personal crusade against anyone that might hint a disagreement with your own "facts". Disagree all you want and contiune to feel superior to those that oppose you. But for me personally, I have no respect for anyone showing their disagreement by spewing out venom and foul language.
 
Only in this small quote you manage to involve me in activities like:
 
hype and myths, nonsense, soupy diarrhea, to blurt out, desperate, stupidity, and foul language like pile of bullshit and WTF.
 
What I based my comment on was what two FSU women told me. Feel free to diasgree but don't come with personal attacks on my person. </blockquote>

[Patagonie]

http://www.yourdictionary.com/wanton

The teacher asks the class to produce a word that starts with the letter "A"; Little Johnny happily raises his hand and says "Asshole!" The teacher, shocked, responds "For shame! There's no such word!" "That's strange," says Little Johnny, "the asshole exists, but the word doesn't!"

 

[Doll]

Hi Doll. I'm not sure if you read the thread that this thread was derived from?
"Advice needed please" in Question to Russian Ladies.

Boethius moved a good chunk of the above thread into this
"Why FSUW Look Abroad" thread.

The initial thread had many elements to it and Boethius thought that this thread would be a good place to park some of it.

Please go back and read the original thread. You should understand
the arguments better in that light 

I did (read the other thread) and found nothing new

Even without reading, I always say that the main reason of these international marriage IS relocation.
After "she" meets "him" it becomes more specific. but it just adds another factor to her intention to relocate.
 
  You can question is a lot, it  is up to you.
Like you see in my profile, I am  RW, married to an AM for almost 10 years, met hundreds of FSUW and talked to them. Before coming to the US I worked for some "dating agency" as a translator.
  So, after all this, I (again  ) agree to the statement that FSUW have relocation on their mind first, then it is the relocation to some certain man.

 Did I do the same? Of course.

[Kuna]

I actually think a lot of FSUW DO join International Dating sites because they ARE interested in moving abroad...  but I don't see it as a bad thing anyway!

Of course some join as a lark - and we tend to see the stories about the ones who weren't serious often being train wrecks too!

To me GQ often portrays an image of a man who doesn't particularly like FSUW...  maybe all women.  I'm not saying he doesn't love his wife but there is just something in many of his posts which seems...  shall we say, chauvinistic.

We often hear that women are just looking for a good man to marry - but we know there are lots of good men in FSU.

We hear men saying they just want a woman with old fashioned values *cough cough cough*...  but there are plenty of women like that at home too - they are just incapable of marrying them!

We also hear men say they are looking for someone slim and young...  but of course there are many women/girls like this at home but they are out of their league.

So...  are FSUW listing themselves on dating sites sometimes (or often) motivated by moving from their hometowns???  Probably yes,  but what is wrong with that?

It's only wrong if a woman marries her first (or any) opportunity KNOWING he is just a mule...  but anyone in a genuine marriage should feel no discounted value in their relationship just because their wife was looking for improvements in security, career, lifestyle, safety, etc.

GQ was harsh and unreasonable again when posting his "advice" to the OP...  Who cares though?  If that's how he gets off good on him.

Simoni was probably hypersensitive... but who cares,  he'll get over it the moment he holds his daughter again.

The newbies should remember none if this changes the reality of you needing to know who you're really marrying before you even propose marriage.

[GoodOlBoy]

No, her coming to live with and marry me, she did for her. I'm not at all threatened by that. In fact I would hope that she did it for her and nothing or nobody else. Otherwise it's a charade isn't it?

... but anyone in a genuine marriage should feel no discounted value in their relationship just because their wife was looking for improvements in security, career, lifestyle, safety, etc.

Yeah....What FP and Kuna said.
Look, if it wasn't GOB, it would have been some other guy.
Sorry, but I can't see Marina sitting in Omsk the rest of her life, pining away because GOB didn't come along. 
 
GOB

[Doll]

Ah, please, do not "portray" GB as chauvinistic! He is just realistic.

 
Ask RW (there is the RW forum)- they will say same. 5% of us (RW) didn't have the relocation as a goal, the remaining 95% did.

[Kuna]

Ah, please, do not "portray" GB as chauvinistic! He is just realistic.

Hate to say it but that's the way it reads a lot of the time...  I can't be bothered pulling quotes out of his recent posts but there's something going on there.

Still,  I don't believe there's anything wrong with a woman looking to start fresh in a new country.  Those taking offense need to relax a little.

[Simoni]

What GQ wrote about FSU women...
 
-DO NOT even begin to think, if she in fact married you and move to the US, that she's doing this specifically for you. LOL, NO. She always planned on doing it and you simply became the wanton person that enabled that plan. Period. Women in marriage agencies aren't 'doing it for anyone' (moving to another country) except themselves when they decided to make themselves available on the international marriage scene. -
 
LOL. Simoni, instead of continually displaying your silly tendency to totally misquote and misrepresent that which is fully simple to understand...answer the simple question I've asked you previously.
 

GQ-- for the 4th time, read what you wrote that I have highlighted in red above.  The answer to that statement for the 4th time is that you are wrong.  My wife, and all of the FSU wives that I know, were not determined to marry for location.  Rather, they met and fell in love with their guy and that is why they married them.  As I have written, women post their profile in the hope of finding a good match.  If they do, they marry.  If they don't, they don't marry.    If your experience is different than this, then you are running with the wrong crowd and you need to find friends with better morals.


So once again, she married and moved to the US specifically for me.

 
I'll even add a juicier tag-Q...do you believe she sacrificed herself for your sake and cause by leaving all that she knew in her life just because of you AND ONLY and specifically because of you alone?
 

Poor man. If you don't have a yes to this question in your marriage, then what the hell were you thinking?


For me-- Yes!  100 %.  My wife left "all that she knew in her life" because of me and specifically for me.  Of course those are your words. In reality, all she had before continues as we go home to Ukraine one or twice a year, interact by skype and email, and have family and friends visit us here as well.


But I do take task with your use of the term "sacrificed herself" for my sake.   We are both better off because of our marriage and family.  She did not sacrifice herself for me; rather, we enhance one another.  We have a great marriage, a wonderful daughter, and live in a beautiful and  amazing place.

[Doll]

Simoni, you are wasting your breath- GQ and you are NOT talking opposite things. 

[Simoni]

The newbies should remember none if this changes the reality of you needing to know who you're really marrying before you even propose marriage.

Well said, Kuna.  And of course the same thing applies to the woman before she accepts the offer of marriage.