Re: Why FSUW Look Abroad

[Jumper]

Please, guys, concentrate - I've already learnt a lot in the few months I've been here, and I'm sure that others have too, but too often you're seeming to lose sight of the ball (so to speak).
 
I would have thought that a topic such as this should have the biggest flag available, and be locked onto everyone's radar.  If we are looking to the FSU for a partner, we need to know what the women there are looking for in return - surely that's common sense?

Well there are thousands of FSU agency sites? and Asian..
How many in NZ?
So common sense dictates economics is an initial primary driving factor.
Whether its the primary motivation is debatable by individual.

This has been debate for a decade here..
it all boils down to how much (what percentage) that factor is in your future relationship.(and that would be a factor domestically as well in many cases)

To look into the FSU,  recognize that economics in fact is the primary reason the industry exists,yet debate the women's general initial motivation seems silly to me.
 It's the Matrix, take the blue pill, recognize life's realities,
or take the red one and live in some dream land where exceptions are the rule.
 

Economics being  some initial primary  motivation  to sign up ..
isn't nearly as relevant as being made out here anyway.

It certainly  doesn't mean that other factors arn't more paramount once meeting anyone?
The average RW is certainly not going to marry just any man,simply because the initial drivers when signing up might have been  economic at their root.

How much a factor ,or to what degree, any of this plays in your personal relationship, is going to be as varied as the women you might meet.


Once meeting ,most of the time you can toss any prior initial motivations out the window anyway? Why you went to the beach, the cafe ,the club,or what fundamentally made you on match.com, etc..
  suddenly doesn't matter at all if you meet some woman that knocks you out physically, intellectually and  emotionally.
It is the same for women, just maybe not as likely to occur in a MOB scenario..

Generalizations on something as wacky as human interactions are pretty funny...
 
I know some RW might  have an agenda.(good or bad) 
Yet I've yet to meet one that did.
Most signing up simply have not though this completely through, most would be taken completely by surprise if it actually occurred and they were faced with relocation.

Economics or relocation as some primary factors in signing up ? sure! absolutely.
Common sense? There is economic disparity and They did choose to list at a agency to meet foreign men.

but perhaps similar to you offhand buying a lotto ticket is economics driven.. it is right?
but you likely don't give it much thought to conclusion ,and continue living your daily life ,if you get the winning number you are left to wondering what the heck to do now?
It's not like you PLANNED on winning.
 This whole idea of planned relocation ,simply by the act of  signing up at a marriage agency, is amusing to me in the context of most RW i have met.

 People generally live day to day there, it's what is required, the future is what it is and left to form itself..
(yes there are exceptions, people with a plan, an agenda etc)

[Boethius]

I'll disagree slightly with you, AJ.  Economics is definitely a factor.  There are far fewer RW on sites because the economy there improved.  It still is, I suspect, a motivating factor in many smaller Ukrainian cities.  That is coupled with the fact that UM leave those small cities, so the male/female ratio is out of balance.

Life is much better in the larger cities, particularly in Eastern Ukraine, so economics is not going to be a big factor there.

[Gator]

Please, guys, concentrate - I've already learnt a lot in the few months I've been here, and I'm sure that others have too, but too often you're seeming to lose sight of the ball (so to speak).
 
If we are looking to the FSU for a partner, we need to know what the women there are looking for in return - surely that's common sense?

I once gave an order to my sergeant in the Army.  He looked at me and said respectfully, "Lieutenant, common sense is not common."    I paused and asked him what he would suggest as an alternative.
 
 
So what is common sense?  I agree with Doll's opinion (with one caveat).   
 
 

They come here for better life "for themselves", "for their kids" and HOPEFULLY for a happy marriage.

I wrote the same earlier - namely, most RW are not in love yet come here in good faith hoping to find love. 
 
Doll based her opinion on talks with RW residing in America.  I based my opinion  not on my few talks with RW in America, but on really deep, frank conversations with about six women in Russia and Ukraine.  Overserve RW with alcohol and they will open up.   
 
Some people in this thread such as GQ are associating this "self before others" with the fact that RW met their husbands through a marriage agency.  Meeting via an agency, however, is not the reason.  The reason is the compressed, fast track manner that boy meets and weds girl.  Many marriages done over 5  years ago  involved a man taking a week to meet many different women via an agency, choosing one RW towards the end of the week, asking her to marry him, and perhaps meeting again for a week while waiting for the fiancee visa.  KenC labeled these the One Week Wonders. 
 
Would any reasonable man expect the RW to love him?  True love takes time for which there is no substitute.
 
Simoni objected to GQ's statement that RW met through agencies come to America just for themselves and not their man.  Simoni met his loving bride via an agency.  What Simoni did not say is that they spent years together in America before  marrying.
 
So Anotherkiwi, your statement - know your woman is correct.  Know her values, know her character, know her goals, know her motivations, and know her feelings.
 
BTW I thought I knew my ex-wife well enough after spending about one year of face time together.  Wrong.  Women change.   I did know her well enough to make a quick exit and not try to save the marriage.     
 

[Boethius]

I don't think people change that much.  What changed was your ex's environment, and, perhaps more importantly, the opportunities available to her.  She was the same person all along.

[GoodOlBoy]

Overserve RW with alcohol and they will open up.

Yeah, GOB also noticed this a long time ago.
After a couple of bottles of champagnski......
 
GOB
 

[Turboguy]

I don't think people change that much.  What changed was your ex's environment, and, perhaps more importantly, the opportunities available to her.  She was the same person all along.

I do think a lot of people try to be on good behavior in the early stages of a relationship and the longer the realionships go on the more relaxed they are and the more the true self comes out.
 
I have always believed and have read some articles that agreed with my belief that in AM-AW relationships, women fall in love with men faster than men fall in love with women.  I also believe that in AM-RW relationships the opposite is true.  I think most men are head over heals in love when their fiancee steps off the place and I think most women think they have found a good man they can learn to love over a period of time.   Perhaps it is the beauty and figures of the women that make they easier to love quickly than the woman learning to love a slightly paunchy, balding older dude.   

[Jumper]

I'll disagree slightly with you, AJ.  Economics is definitely a factor.  There are far fewer RW on sites because the economy there improved.  It still is, I suspect, a motivating factor in many smaller Ukrainian cities.  That is coupled with the fact that UM leave those small cities, so the male/female ratio is out of balance.

Life is much better in the larger cities, particularly in Eastern Ukraine, so economics is not going to be a big factor there.

I don't think we disagree even slightly , i just did not get my point across well..
my fault.

This was in the  first few sentences.
So common sense dictates economics is an initial primary driving factor.
Whether its the primary motivation is debatable by individual.



I do think economics is generally *the* primary initial motivation for signing up with an agency, be that to work, or to simply meet a man thought better able to provide for a family.I just don't buy that relocation generally being  the primary factor. economics yes ,relocation not so much. I know far too many that simply never thought that through. Many would prefer the man relocate to them, IF he could retain his western salary , economics again?   Can relocation  also be a factor? well it is tied so closely with economics that of course it is! No real debate from me, and like before, i just don't see the hulabaloo      I know women ( i should define -hetero) tired of relationship(s) gone sour, who signed up to AVOID meeting men, both domestic and foreign,  relocation would be the least thing they considered! Granted since they were working economics was a primary driver ,but not in the way debated here.   There are countless human motivations.. but i agree with the generalities,it's obvious the whole MOB thing couldn't develop, without that economic disparity.

[Faux Pas]

FP, Gator gets it, but you still don't.

We never were disputing the intentions of women who sign up on EM or at a marriage agency.
YES THEY SIGN UP FOR THEMSELVES!
Is that clear?

Of course she didn't know you!
What woman would sign up at a site or agency if she already knew the man?

"I have this great guy that I love and everything is going fantastic, but I want to sign up at a marriage agency because I'd rather meet someone I don't know yet". Right!


FP, GQ was caught between a rock and a hard place and was simply trying to save face because he had said if Salty's woman married him and moved to the U.S. she would be doing it just for herself.

He didn't clear things up and say, "Sorry. I meant to say she simply signed up at a marriage agency for herself, that's all. Of course if she married and moved to the U.S. she wouldn't be doing that just for herself".
If he had said that, this discussion would now be moot.

Maybe I just don't get you? You seem to be dangerously close to a Strawman attack. The remark by GQ is just a remark and not an assault on you, your GF or your wife. What's more is GQ believes it. I do too. I would wager most woman sign up to seek foreign men on a lark. Never expecting much to come of it. I did the same. To believe that there was a cradle to grave agenda is stretching it quite a bit. Yes, the women did not sign up for you. They signed up for them. Why does that enrage you?

F.P. if your wife arrived in the U.S. and turned out to be a self-centered b i a t c h, who only thought of herself and not about you, would you be happy?
That is what this discussion is about.

Now you are being facetious and silly with more strawman. Of course I wouldn't but, that isn't the case either. My wife signed up with herself in mind. That IMO is what this discussion is about. It wasn't about her finding me. It was about her, finding her man, improving her level of happiness and yes, improving her station in life. Is that so wrong? If so, why?


All of her decisions wasn't made the moment she sign on to correspond . Later after she'd met some online, met some in person she then had more decisions to make. Later even more decisions before stepping on the plane to leave. Since there have been many more she has had to make. IMO, she made them all for herself.

[Gator]

I don't think people change that much.  What changed was your ex's environment, and, perhaps more importantly, the opportunities available to her.  She was the same person all along.

I am amazed by your ability to know someone better over cyberspace than the man who was with her over 6 calendar years.  Please teach me how to do that.
 
About women not changing, hah!  I agree that her DNA did not change, so everything wired to DNA would have remained the same.  So environment does not cause change?   Enlightenment and age do not prompt change?  Hint:  Goals, values, character - they changed. 

[Boethius]

Sorry, don't buy it.  In my experience, goals can change.  Values, perhaps with age and experience  But from my observations, character doesn't change much over time, absent some great epiphany, such as adopting religion, and certainly not in the short time you were together.

Are you willing to harbour the notion that that she either hid aspects of her character, or that you were willing to overlook them?  She had choices available to her once she was living with you that she did not have previously.

[witchdoctor]

Boy after four years, still the same discussion! Why they look abroad is not so important as their motives and intentions with regards to the relationship.  Good OR bad. 
Witchdoctor

[Doll]

Doll, not all.

I guess that this has been said before but I'll repeat it anyway.

Some will have decided to relocate and will look for a suitable man to facilitate that goal. Not necessarily a bad thing, as most of these women will still want to marry a guy that they love and respect even if the original motivating factor was to relocate. A few of these on the other hand, will probably marry the one guy that can facilitate their goal the quickest no matter if they love him or not (and probably divorce him as soon as it's convenient to do so).

 .
 

Like I said, GQ and his "opponents" do not contradict each other- relocation and then marriage are just two parts of same thing.

[Doll]

Sorry, don't buy it.  In my experience, goals can change.  Values, perhaps with age and experience  But from my observations, character doesn't change much over time, absent some great epiphany, such as adopting religion, and certainly not in the short time you were together.

Are you willing to harbour the notion that that she either hid aspects of her character, or that you were willing to overlook them?  She had choices available to her once she was living with you that she did not have previously.

In some case it is possible, Boethius- stresses, hardships can change the person big time. Isolation, other things- it is possible.

[Daveman]

I have to agree with some of the others who indicate that there isn't as much disagreement in this thread as first would seem apparent.


I see no problem with a woman targeting a specific country or even city.  Guys do it all the time.  Of course she begins to look abroad for her own benefit.  Some find mules, others find love, others find tolerable situations, others never find anyone at all. 


As Kuna (and others) have stated, know your woman before you marry her.


Faux Pas summed it up the best so far.  Her doing something for herself doesn't taint the relationship in the least.  I highly doubt any man seeking a partner in the FSU was driven by selfless motives.  It's merely a win/win combination of self gain.  IMO anyway.

[Doll]

Speaking of "women change, men change", this is the biggest problem in this kind of marriages. Men show off, women don't know what to really expect from that men on his "land". IMO, this is the biggest drama (offtopic though).

[Gylden]

This thread really has a life of it's own!
Women looking to relocated.....there is nothing wrong with it. I would question it though if she was looking for a husband from Bolivia for example. Or how many FSU women are looking for a husband from say Nigeria?
 
Also, it is no different than a man looking for a woman from say...Ukraine or Russia. You won't find many CanadianHoney web sites or SwitzerlandBride.com.
 

[The Natural]

The vast majority of men are actually foreigners.

[Doll]

This thread really has a life of it's own!
Women looking to relocated.....there is nothing wrong with it. I would question it though if she was looking for a husband from Bolivia for example. Or how many FSU women are looking for a husband from say Nigeria?
 
 

Good question    They are looking in the "highly developed countries" (mostly)

[Gylden]

The vast majority of men are actually foreigners.

LOL, almost all American men are descendants of foreigners!
 

[Doll]

Guys, we all understand that the translation for "looking for foreigners " is  "looking for relocation" (not to Nigeria)

[Gylden]

Here is a familiar saying in the US (and probably other countries as well)
 
"Mama use to always tell me, it is just as easy to fall in love with a Rich Man, then a poor man!"
 
It goes for western men too, just it's not easy to tell what you are getting until you get there!!
 
 
 

[ML]

As Kuna (and others) have stated, know your woman before you marry her.

But just a few entries ago, in this thread, Gator points out how you can never really do this.  Try yes; achieve no.

I always get a kick out of these admonishments to not marry the woman (man) until you know ABC or are certain about XYZ.

If a person had these abilities, think of  the money they could make in the stock market.

The best we can do is . . .  try to avoid being grossly stupid.

[Doll]

Here is a familiar saying in the US (and probably other countries as well)
 
"Mama use to always tell me, it is just as easy to fall in love with a Rich Man, then a poor man!"
 
It goes for western men too, just it's not easy to tell what you are getting until you get there!!
 

Yeah, this and the personality of a man. Money can be earned later but if you marry a freak- all money in the world can't keep you with him. Or much older (sex problems), or alchohol, or the probs with step kids.

[OlgaH]

I always get a kick out of these admonishments to not marry the woman (man) until you know ABC or are certain about XYZ.

Agree. As my grandfather said: Life is not a walk across a field and You never know a man until you have eaten a pood of salt with him (pood is an old Russian unit of mass)

[wicheese]

I just finsihed chatting with my Fiancee and she was telling me that she was just talking with a privious co-worker (attractive in her late 20's) who had been to America to meet a man in the past (it did not work out too well as I guess he was something of a tight ass when it came to money).  Anyways, this man wants to apply for a K-1 visa for her and she's considering primarily due to the fact that she's been without a job for a number of months which has nothing to do with loving the man.  Thought it was appropriate to mention for this thread.
 
I bet in her conversations with the man the word "love" is used which only proves the point that sometimes what we are told is not always the truth...(of course this does not apply to any man reading this who is with an FSUW  ).
 
BTW, my advice was for her to loose the man and go online and find a mule partner more suitable.