Let me see if I understand this right

[SCdude]

I have reading and reading. I must say you guys have posted so much valuable information.

I like to break things down and really look at a big picture.
I look at marriage like it's an item that is invested in. We have to go "buy" a marriage lisc. If it's a local girl we have to "invest time and money" into that. Local woman can rake a man over the coals just as easy as a foreign woman.

Let me put something out there though. I am not looking for a young woman to show "The US" and a "hollywood life". I am looking for a woman that (unlike the trend of the US women) that appreciate healthy/happy realistic family life. Intelligent well educated and has a solid idea of what life is.

I understand it's going to take several trips to the FSU which will amount to at least $14k when its said and done. Thats just the initial investment thats just to meet a few. Also have to avoid agencies as they are misleading and out of course to do what the American Dream is...make a profit.

I do have a solid question. A lot of the sights say some pretty disturbing things about Russian women. So it's customary to purchase absolutely everything? and if the man doesn't it's considered greedy or rude?

Or do these women actually have a sense of American Economics and understand that if I am taking the effort and expense to go see them that they are willing to help out in regards to their own travel expenses? The customs they spill over the agency FAQ's make no sense and shed an awful light on russian women. Maybe a good light for men with no family values and wants a pin up girl. but for a family guy those agencies make it look awful.

Just wondering any thoughts, are they all spoiled lil barbie dolls that the agencies make them out to be? Or are there some good women that just want something different in a different country. Just wondering any thoughts.

All the horror stories got me freaked out where I might decide this route is NOT for me.

I'm a widower with an 8yo son. I can have a pick of local women so it's not really "desperation" to find a girl or "step up". Just the 30 something dating scene is AWFUL. American women have turned into self serving, narcissistic, man haters with no sense of family values. The American women that do have the right qualities are all taken....for good reason, rare and far between.

[Faux Pas]

SCguy,


Oh where to begin? First, do yourself a great deal of reading in the forum archives. Lots of reading. I'd suggest for the time being until you have done enough research to get away from the agencies until you have a better idea of what you're doing and who it is you're dealing with.


This route may or may not be for you. Only time will tell but, the horror stories alone (trust me here) are no indication. Whether or not is is for you, you'll have no way of knowing until you at least visit.


There is no price tag you can put on it. Doing so will likely lead to failure in one respect or the other. It is what it is. It does require a degree of expendable income. If you do not have, I'd suggest that it isn't for you.


What you've described here that you've read is wrong. The good and the bad. I'd also add that your description of American ladies is wrong as well. Perhaps those are what you are attracting. You can find a wonderful woman in the FSU and you can find one at home. I'll give you this, the odds of finding one abroad increase your chances because of the numbers but, you still need to be a better man yourself to attract the better women.


Good luck on your search, stick around and ask questions.

[SCdude]

I'd also add that your description of American ladies is wrong as well. Perhaps those are what you are attracting.
---------------------
I'll have to disagree with you their. Maybe it's the region I live in. but honestly. These GCG stories pale in comparison to what I see in my area going on. Maybe it's just South Carolina mid-30's women (but holds true for 99% of dating sites). but in all honesty the 30-40 single women is mainly divorced and jilted. If they are single, there turns out to be a solid reason.
I have thought seriously about waiting 10 yrs to get out of this age group dating. It is not a friendly tromping ground being a widow around 95% divorcees that either had bad husbands or turned out to be bad wives. They mostly see my marital status and a son and figure it's a tom hanks thing. I've dated younger women, they are not bad. but they don't have the life experiences or maturity to understand the level of commitment going into a ready made family. Older women, they are done with raising kids. They don't have the patience to go another round in their 40's.
So really the age group I'm in is very very stagnant in the US.
Just felt to have to disagree with you from my own experiences.

, you still need to be a better man yourself to attract the better women.

One thing I do know is I'm a hard working, loyal, dedicated guy with family as my goal. I got vices, but I have a clear sense of what I want and I haven't even got close with the 30 something dating crowd.

[Boethius]

What happens if you seek a FSUW who, realistically, you are not going to know well when you marry her, if she is not a good mother to your son?  He is still very young.  Shouldn't you be putting his emotional well being and childhood first?

[Vincenzo]

For $14,000, you can travel many-many times, especially, off season ($2,000 a trip).
Here is what most men do: they travel to the Ukraine(no visa) to see several hot ladies(each of the ladies meets 20 guys a year). You won't get much respect from these women.

If you find a 30+ woman with a child in Russia, contact her through Skype, send her flowers, exchange emails; she will wait for your visit. She will still treat you no different than a local guy, so spend as much time as possible on Skype. Use a website like www.elenasmodels.com where you don't pay per message and per minute fees. Don't worry if there is no nobody right now, new women register each day.

[SCdude]

Shouldn't you be putting his emotional well being and childhood first?
-----------------------
He is my #1 priority. but in that sight why do you think I'm still single LOL and thus my statement of american dating.
I'm not looking for right now. Heck haven't even set up a profile anywhere.
I figure it will take years. I also never do anything without research.
but, they attractiveness about Russian women is not their looks to me, but level of education. I have met a few younger in the city and liked their degree of education and seemed par for course for Russias education system.

[SCdude]

For $14,000, you can travel many-many times, especially, off season ($2,000 a trip).
Here is what most men do: they travel to the Ukraine(no visa) to see several hot ladies(each of the ladies meets 20 guys a year). You won't get much respect from these women.

If you find a 30+ woman with a child in Russia, contact her through Skype, send her flowers, exchange emails; she will wait for your visit. She will still treat you no different than a local guy, so spend as much time as possible on Skype. Use a website like www.elenasmodels.com where you don't pay per message and per minute fees. Don't worry if there is no nobody right now, new women register each day.

Hit the nail on the head dude. Exactly what I am looking for. Kid no kid doesn't matter much to me. but yes someone my own age, educated, and solid family values. Sorry but American 30 something divorcees are lacking in that dept. If divorce rates are lower with foreign or even the same compared to traditional marriage, with all the stress of Immigration, culture barriers, and financial expense. Seems to me that it seems they have a solid family and sticking together.

Just to clear up any confusion. I was married for 8 yrs very happily and very much in love, but she was lost in a car wreck from a drunk driver. I have been single for 6 years going on 7. I dated many but not a one worth bringing home.
So just seeing what I'm getting into here.

I know seems cheezy I'm putting a price tag on it, but hey one has to be able to survive and planning a campaign like this is not something I will take lightly.

Thanks again for all the input guys. Anything that helps generate thought and knowledge is after all power. I am understanding just how risk this is.

[Jooky]

I do have a solid question. A lot of the sights say some pretty disturbing things about Russian women. So it's customary to purchase absolutely everything? and if the man doesn't it's considered greedy or rude?

What things that you've read do you find disturbing?
 

The customs they spill over the agency FAQ's make no sense and shed an awful light on russian women.

Please give some examples about what customs you're been reading about.
 

Or do these women actually have a sense of American Economics and understand that if I am taking the effort and expense to go see them that they are willing to help out in regards to their own travel expenses?

It sounds like your main concern is who will be footing the bill. Is that right? How does that tie in to what you've mentioned about 'family values' and a 'healthy family life'? I'm just trying to get a clear idea of your concerns before trying to give some answers.

[Vincenzo]

Hit the nail on the head dude. Exactly what I am looking for. Kid no kid doesn't matter much to me. but yes someone my own age, educated, and solid family values.

You'll find many of them. Most women over 30 have children, so many Russian men and foreigners skip them. Some of these women are extremely beautiful and educated. Some will have problems with English, but they can learn it. If you avoid hairdressers and seamstresses, many will have higher education.

[Faux Pas]

Maybe it's just South Carolina mid-30's women (but holds true for 99% of dating sites). but in all honesty the 30-40 single women is mainly divorced and jilted. If they are single, there turns out to be a solid reason.
I have thought seriously about waiting 10 yrs to get out of this age group dating. It is not a friendly tromping ground being a widow around 95% divorcees that either had bad husbands or turned out to be bad wives. They mostly see my marital status and a son and figure it's a tom hanks thing. I've dated younger women, they are not bad. but they don't have the life experiences or maturity to understand the level of commitment going into a ready made family. Older women, they are done with raising kids. They don't have the patience to go another round in their 40's.
So really the age group I'm in is very very stagnant in the US.
Just felt to have to disagree with you from my own experiences.

One thing I do know is I'm a hard working, loyal, dedicated guy with family as my goal. I got vices, but I have a clear sense of what I want and I haven't even got close with the 30 something dating crowd.

Listen, you are probably a great guy and my statement was no dig at you personally. However, I don't know where in Carolina you are but I've had extensive dating experience in the Low Country area and I know there's many a fine women. Something to remember SC, while there are some noted differences in women the world over, there's not really that much difference in general. Women are women no matter where you find them. We are all the architect of our own fate and happiness. Don't buy into the fantasy that because she is from somewhere other than your area she is better. She isn't.

[Muzh]

Listen, you are probably a great guy and my statement was no dig at you personally. However, I don't know where in Carolina you are but I've had extensive dating experience in the Low Country area and I know there's many a fine women. Something to remember SC, while there are some noted differences in women the world over, there's not really that much difference in general. Women are women no matter where you find them. We are all the architect of our own fate and happiness. Don't buy into the fantasy that because she is from somewhere other than your area she is better. She isn't.

Agree.


FP, I see this dude's "business" transaction heading for bankruptcy. That is, unless there is a quick reassessment of the intangibles, his goose is cooked.

[SCdude]

1. What things that you've read do you find disturbing?
 
Please give some examples about what customs you're been reading about.
 
2.It sounds like your main concern is who will be footing the bill. Is that right? How does that tie in to what you've mentioned about 'family values' and a 'healthy family life'? I'm just trying to get a clear idea of your concerns before trying to give some answers.

1. At several of the agency sites, it states that you are expected to pay for absolutely everything. Her flat stay, yours, her travel expenses, her time, and just a ton of other "suggestions" seems shady and can't really fathom any country having those kind of system and it being for two people wanting to start a life. Almost screaming "we want sugar daddies". I'm pretty sure it myth but just making sure from people that have actually went there and seen what is what. Also mentions extreme drinking over there as a common place. That scares me some.

2. It's not so much who is "footing the bill" but I do expect a certain degree of "meeting me half way". In all honesty if they can't recognize the risks I am taking and the distance and effort that I am doing then is that really saying a lot about a future life partner?
I expect my mate to be independent and have the skills to stand on ones own feet. I totally expect that culture shock, depression, finances and frustration of the process is going to be monumentally difficult on everyone involved. If this concept plays into fruition and something comes of it I want to be prepared.
I do not expect an un-americanized super model to be my housekeeper. I would expect her to after some time get a job and build a life for herself (with me by her side). My life is pretty much carved into stone. Built my own house block for block stick for stick. I own my own business. I care for my boy 24/7 - school and the occasional sleep over at my parents so I can go out on a date.
Again I haven't made any advances or even set up a profile yet. I am honestly educating myself to see if this is even an option. I have a few friends that married foreigners, and they say it's hard, but worth every second.

Listen, you are probably a great guy and my statement was no dig at you personally.

I did take it as a dig, thanks for clearing that up.
Yes in certain age groups in the low country (I'm midlands) there are very nice women. Older 40+ as well. but honestly. Unlike many of the 30 crowd I had a good marriage and it ended by neither of our choice. Fate dealt an ugly hand. but...I have been on dates with about 10-15 women. some professional well educated, but that was it...career career career and everything is second to that.
The ones with kids the famous line "They already got a daddy, so forget it we will just date"... and I'll throw it my X husbands face. Or the ones with the biological clock ticking full speed "I don't care who or what...I need to get a family before it too late" and instinct clouds judgement. Or one that I ran from....the over-demanding, over promiscuous, in the closet drunk/coke addict liar I spot them pretty quick tho . Sorry that's the 30crowd. Honestly and truly. There are a couple of good women in there, but thats like digging for gold in a swamp..it's not gonna turn up much.
I haven't given up on American women...just looking at my options.

[ML]

OP, you are wrong about several things.  The FSU women are not more educated than AW.  The FSU women are not better looking than AW.  The FSUW are not more family oriented than AW.  There is really only one advantage of FSUW over AW on an absolute basis.  That is, they are more slender on average.  But how long will that characteristic last when you bring them west.

Now, the advantage of you seeking FSU women is that you can trade up  to the next higher level or so with regard to education, facial looks, slender, etc.

Try to understand, there are just as many (proportionately) educated and good looking women in FSU and the west, but you can trade up to next level in FSU compared to what you can achieve in the west.

Why can you trade up in the FSU?  Two main factors:

1) Economics
2) Perceived imbalance in 'good' men vs 'good' women in FSU.

Number one is definitely true, although it is not as much a factor in some regions of FSU as in prior years.

Number two may or may not be true; but as long as the FSU women think it is true, then they are willing to let western men trade up.

[Gylden]

LOL, My wife has this to say about men looking for a FSUW:
 
She says DON'T DO IT! She says find yourself a nice Asian woman.
 
 

[ML]

Concerning who pays in FSU, you are fighting a long cultural tradition here which has nothing to do with gold diggers.

FSU is a relatively macho society.  There is a long history and tradition that the man pays for everything.  In many cases, the FSU man would not go on a date with a woman if she suggested paying anything.  So it is not just the women, it is ingrained in the men also.

This holds even in cases where the woman is making good money, perhaps even more than the man.  There may be exceptions, but they are far and few between.  And, it may change at some point in  the future, but not in your lifetime.

So if you really want a FSUW, then you must find a way to suck up your distaste for that system and just resolve that you will go along with tradition and pay for everything.  If you are going to fight this in your own mind, then you will be very, very unhappy; and you will certainly turn-off almost every FSUW.  Yes, you will be called greedy, even as it is not the correct word, and should instead be called stingy.  Their translation dictionaries have mistranslated this word forever.

[SCdude]

Agree.


FP, I see this dude's "business" transaction heading for bankruptcy. That is, unless there is a quick reassessment of the intangibles, his goose is cooked.

LOL, isn't everything between two people a transaction whether emotional, business, or otherwise?
Funny you say my goose is cooked when I haven't spent a cent
When a person has lost everything once...and I don't mean just the house, the job, and stuff...I mean everything. I am being so cautious in this "concept" that I'm actually trying to educate myself prior to even talking or anything to a foreign woman. I am protecting myself that much and trying to see what this overseas dating is all about.
I'm here to learn. I don't quite find that post very helpful and extremely judgmental.


--------------------

Thanks ManLooking. That's the kind of information I am looking for. Honest direct comments about actual experiences with people of that region. The agencies, and countless articles I know are mostly glamour and fantasy. I am just exploring this as an option. Of course they want to spill me how wonderful they are...if they don't they don't make money. Plain and simple.

[Ranetka]

Firstly about footing the bill.
 
1. (Generally) it's a Russian culture the man pays for everything during courtship. In return he can decide where the to go and what to do. When the couple are together for a reasonable time and they have similar means the girl will foot the bill ocasionally.
 
2. (Generally) primary motivation for FSWs lookng for men abroad is economical. (Generally) a FSW has little means of assessing financial status of a man therefore she would judge his means by how he spends when with her. (Generally) the idea is if he can not afford to pay for everything then he can not afford a Russian wife.
 
Hence yes (generally) a man is expected to pay for everything.
 
Children.
 
(Generally) in ~Russian culture it is a woman's job to raise children (asian perspective) and to take care of the family. As a result of this children are (generally) left with mothers. As a downside unfortunately much fewer women are prepared to accept someone else's child, it's just woman will rarely face this situation in Russia. I do not know may be Western women also think that they will never love another womans child but at least they will never say this aloud. RWs do.
 
Being equal and careers.
 
While most of women I think would like to work very few would be happy with your ideas of sharing the houshold bills and being equal partners. Again, they can have this at home, majority want to marry foreigners to never worry about things like this!
 
 
 

[SCdude]

Concerning who pays in FSU, you are fighting a long cultural tradition here which has nothing to do with gold diggers.

FSU is a relatively macho society.  There is a long history and tradition that the man pays for everything.  In many cases, the FSU man would not go on a date with a woman if she suggested paying anything.  So it is not just the women, it is ingrained in the men also.

This holds even in cases where the woman is making good money, perhaps even more than the man.  There may be exceptions, but they are far and few between.  And, it may change at some point in  the future, but not in your lifetime.

So if you really want a FSUW, then you must find a way to suck up your distaste for that system and just resolve that you will go along with tradition and pay for everything.  If you are going to fight this in your own mind, then you will be very, very unhappy; and you will certainly turn-off almost every FSUW.  Yes, you will be called greedy, even as it is not the correct word, and should instead be called stingy.  Their translation dictionaries have mistranslated this word forever.

thanks again manlooking. That is the info I am looking for. Are they ABLE to overcome some of their traditional values and adapt to an american ideology.
I am not looking for 100% across the board answer...but statistically speaking and you clearly answered it for me. Fact is when I go another country I accept there traditions and way of life. I haven't been to FSU yet, so I'm sort of in the dark on their way of life and all I read is what the "advertising" thinks I want to hear.
The more I read from the experienced ones is that at this point in my life...this is looking less and less as an option. but how do you know without asking questions and researching?
Nope I refuse to be another horror story. Already had that. I was just very curious after seeing how they "portray" the women.

[SCdude]

Thank you Ranetka 
Between you and manlooking you have made up my mind that this is not a viable route.
It's not about her fending for herself...if she wants that fine. My late wife was stay at home mom. I loved it. but also know that some women need that independence. If the chemistry is there then I'm very compromise orientated. but I will not be a sugar daddy.
Nope this is not the route for me.
Thank you all for the extremely insightful thread

[Faux Pas]

Agree.


FP, I see this dude's "business" transaction heading for bankruptcy. That is, unless there is a quick reassessment of the intangibles, his goose is cooked.

At this juncture he certainly deserves the benefit of the doubt. He's in the very infancy of the idea. Of course you are correct but, we should IMO as the old hands here, educate the young chap  . All we can do Muzh, is shine the light and let him find his way.

I did take it as a dig, thanks for clearing that up.
Yes in certain age groups in the low country (I'm midlands) there are very nice women. Older 40+ as well. but honestly. Unlike many of the 30 crowd I had a good marriage and it ended by neither of our choice. Fate dealt an ugly hand. but...I have been on dates with about 10-15 women. some professional well educated, but that was it...career career career and everything is second to that.

SC, the first thing you'll need is some thicker skin than you project right here. Everyone here is here to help regardless of how you perceive the delivery of the message. There is a lot of information to learn and some of it unfortunately isn't going to be digested by you until you've heard it a number of different ways. It's only after you've run the gauntlet that you'll begin to understand.

Another option is to completely disregard any, all or everything that you learn here. Trust me here as well, you'll be better off and better prepared that you at least heard it before without regard to whether you appreciated it or not at the time.

[Faux Pas]

Thank you Ranetka 
Between you and manlooking you have made up my mind that this is not a viable route.
It's not about her fending for herself...if she wants that fine. My late wife was stay at home mom. I loved it. but also know that some women need that independence. If the chemistry is there then I'm very compromise orientated. but I will not be a sugar daddy.
Nope this is not the route for me.
Thank you all for the extremely insightful thread

That is very likely the case. Many guys like yourself come around asking like questions. That's why we're here. We have no dog in this fight whether you choose to look abroad or not. Whether you do or you don't will not affect anyone here either way.


Just understand there are many pitfalls in this journey and many, many wonderful lifetime experiences. It really depends on you. You very likely could come out the other end with the love of your life or with your ass and your hat handed to you.


Trying to complete an idea in your head of what this possible woman would do, or not do at this point in the game is quite silly. You don't even know who she is yet, much less met her. You on the other hand don't appear to be flexible in understanding and respecting cultures other than your own. If you think you might wish to share your life with a woman from another culture don't you think this could cause some conflict?


I only point this out to you because many men are not up to this. There's no shame in that game. It does require a very open mind and very flexible positions on many fronts. Some aren't able or willing.

[SCdude]

Thanks Faux Pas.
I am not even at infancy yet...not even conception...still at the "thought" stage.
I am absorbing every bit of data. I appreciate it a lot. After the research it just doesn't seem like an option now. I think I would need to go over their visit and see the culture prior to even thinking about getting involved with a FSUW.
I am seeing that it's not very European in ideaology but way more Eastern than I had originally thought.
I have thick skin, just know what I want, just don't know where to look anymore LOL. When you have kicked around as long as I have...the same old story different face you start to think "is it different anywhere else" who knows...but I don't think this would be right for me or a person I found.
Thanks everyone

Trying to complete an idea in your head of what this possible woman would do, or not do at this point in the game is quite silly.

I am just trying to understand general culture ideaology. Each culture that I have visited had different "mindsets" regarding marriage and roles. Each culture very different. I was trying to understand how they perceive roles in the culture and how they compare to mine. I can see where I came off wrong in the way I typed it, but like anything new it's hard to really get what information you are looking for if you are not sure what to even ask.

Thanks all again. Probably be my last post as if I was single, this would be a lot more viable. but with a child I do not think this is a logical route. Guess I'll just keep on hanging back and one day find someone closer and less to lose.
Could not bear to bring someone over and have them end up miserable and me along with them. Which seems to be a very real possibility. So why even try with such a risky adventure. I have way too much to lose.

[SMS60]

SCdude, you only get used or become a sugar daddy if you allow it to happen. If you have strong boundaries and excercises them you can usually navigate your way thru the maze.

[Faux Pas]

Thanks Fauz Pas.
I am not even at infancy yet...not even conception...still at the "thought" stage.
I am absorbing every bit of data. I appreciate it a lot. After the research it just doesn't seem like an option now. I think I would need to go over their visit and see the culture prior to even thinking about getting involved with a FSUW.
I am seeing that it's not very European in ideaology but way more Eastern than I had originally thought.
I have thick skin, just know what I want, just don't know where to look anymore LOL. When you have kicked around as long as I have...the same old story different face you start to think "is it different anywhere else" who knows...but I don't think this would be right for me or a person I found.
Thanks everyone

It's a great place for a vacation for a whipper snapper like yourself. I would suggest St. Petersburg. The most wonderful city I have ever had the pleasure of visiting.


Yes "things" are different but, more so because of the international dating. Yes, the women have some different cultural traits. Generally they are leaner, have sexy accents, more mysterious and many times more attractive than what you can date at home. Keep in mind, women are still women.

[tfcrew]

I look at marriage like it's an item that is invested in.

Don't really agree w/that ..a wife is definitely not a commodity.

I understand it's going to take several trips to the FSU which will amount to at least $14k when its said and done. Thats just the initial investment thats just to meet a few.

I don't mean to seem bare knuckles, here but again, this is not like buying stock.

SCdude..
Do you fish?
Because that is more how I would agree  to equate the process.

I understand it's going to take several trips to the FSU

That certainly depends.
   

American women have turned into self serving, narcissistic, man haters with no sense of family values.

That is a very general negative statement. Remember this...those who tend to generalize, generally tend to be wrong.
Proceed w/caution and best o0f luck..........

Karl