Hello and a few questions

[Admin]

Dan, you're not ignorant of the meaning of disingenuous but I'll put in here for those that aren't to highlight why I feel pretty damn insulted;

"lacking in frankness, candor, or sincerity; falsely or hypocritically"

You honestly think that my post was any of those things?

Ade,

It seems clear that my comments on your post upset you. I did not intend it to be upsetting. I intended it as my sincere observation and nothing more.

As for your question, leaving the post as you did was to leave those of us who did NOT read your original post, questioning what HAD been posted. It further raised questions (speculation?) as to WHY it was edited - and especially in the way it was edited. I do not know how long your original post was intact, but it could not have been more than 12 hours (the forum time limit for a member to edit their own posts). If your concern was that half the RWD membership had seen the post and you wanted to inform them of the reason for the edit - that would influence my opinion of what transpired. If it was intact for only a few hours (or thereabouts), then that particular explanation rings hollow.

The assignment of motive to another based on incomplete information is a VERY risky proposition - and one that many here take all too lightly. Taking that risk, my interpretation of your motive to edit the post as you did was that you desired people to be curious and for the questions mentioned earlier to arise. If I am correct (note my earlier comment about taking risk in assigning motive), then the post was made (left, actually) not to offer anything of value to another -  but rather, to send some other less forthright 'message.' This explanation of my thought process explains my earlier "disingenuous" comment. If I was mistaken, you have my apology.

- Dan

[Ade]

Ade,

It seems clear that my comments on your post upset you. I did not intend it to be upsetting. I intended it as my sincere observation and nothing more.

As for your question, leaving the post as you did was to leave those of us who did NOT read your original post, questioning what HAD been posted. It further raised questions (speculation?) as to WHY it was edited - and especially in the way it was edited. I do not know how long your original post was intact, but it could not have been more than 12 hours (the forum time limit for a member to edit their own posts). If your concern was that half the RWD membership had seen the post and you wanted to inform them of the reason for the edit - that would influence my opinion of what transpired. If it was intact for only a few hours (or thereabouts), then that particular explanation rings hollow.

The assignment of motive to another based on incomplete information is a VERY risky proposition - and one that many here take all too lightly. Taking that risk, my interpretation of your motive to edit the post as you did was that you desired people to be curious and for the questions mentioned earlier to arise. If I am correct (note my earlier comment about taking risk in assigning motive), then the post was made (left, actually) not to offer anything of value to another -  but rather, to send some other less forthright 'message.' This explanation of my thought process explains my earlier "disingenuous" comment. If I was mistaken, you have my apology.

- Dan

I reassessed the post quite quickly and as Boe pointed out I realized that I'd probably over stepped the mark and posted private information my wife would not want public knowledge.

I think it's irrelevant how many people you or I think may have not read the original; the resulting edit was not aimed at them but to the ones that did. That you automatically think I had some dubious motives for doing that implies a lot, especially when there is nothing in that edit that is in any way derogatory nor does it have any negative inferences towards others.

"Upset" is probably an overstatement. A little insulted, yes, particularly as my motives for editing were driven by the utmost respect for my wife.

[Rubicon]

I thought about trying the foreign option for a round a year. I read this forum for several months. I guess it breaks down to if am shy and of average income can this work for me?
 
A little about myself, Two years ago my sister gave birth to a girl. I feel in love with her and want some children of my own. I made a three part plan. I lost eighty pounds. I bought a home. I looked for a woman. I have looked for over a year now.
 
I am 41 years old. I have never been in a serious relationship. I really want to have children. It seems to me that women my age either don't want to have children or already have the children they want. It equally seems that younger women want someone there own age. I work for the government and I make around 40k.
 
Now to summaries what I think I have read. Tours are bad now as the same women go to them and drive away and new women. It a good way to have fun but it isn't a good way to find a life partner. Ukraine, Moscow, and St Petersburg have many foreign men and rich local men. Elana's Models is one of the best sites.
 
Is that a good summary? I barely understand any russian. I done the first level of Rosental stone so using a foreign langauge site doesn't really work for. Is it likely if I can do this successfully?
 
Thanks for any advise.
Van

Van come back!!  We would like to know what you think of all this advice!!

[GQBlues]

...but I never considered meeting women a high risk proposition, no matter where they lived or  came from..few live on the edge of a volcano..

I have a very difficult time understanding this as well. We are all built with equal sexual specifications.
 
It always appear to me that so many of the men put way too much effort and tension in just meeting someone they like. What is otherwise a natural and positive part of everyone's existence, is somehow a risky proposition to some/many. Always a negative. I don't get it, I never did.
 
In concert to what Jooky once mentioned on TBB's T/R thread, I remarked to BC that must I need to walk a mile in a person's shoes to begin to see things from his perspective? But why and see what? We are all on equal strides.
 
As for having past LTRs as somehow a platform into a person's future relationship success, I'm not quite sure that sits with me either. Before my marrige to my wife, there really was only one significant relationship I ever had in my life. I still strongly believe today that was one of the very best phase of my life. I still strongly cherish the gal and our relationship so much...yet prior to that, any relationship beyond 72 hours was 68 hours too long for me. Then the same after, until my wife....
 
I've never been married before much less one for 7 years, but here I am, still plugging along.
 
I believe there are way too many thoughts, anxiety, analysis, effort, preparation, discussion, etc put into simply relating to the opposite sex, and I do find that baffling. Are we not all wired naturally and specifically for this purpose to begin with???
 
PUAs, Don Juans, what the heck is all that? Is this what folks term men who act naturally to what they were tooled to do? There's nothing to be ashamed of for acting upon what we, the social, sexual creatures that we all are, were wired to do in the first place. I mean, think about it.
 
The problem I think lies in the paralysis through analysis. The more it consumes the thought, the more the thought consumes the man.
 
Anyway, I hope Van returns and take an active participation in this forum. I hope he takes all of this in stride, whether he decides to search for hot Sally or sexy Olga.

[Gator]

but I never considered meeting women a high risk proposition,
no matter where they lived or  came from..
few live on the edge of a volcano..

All of us are different.  Considering your profession, you are far from risk averse.
 

I'm not so good at risk management, relationships are on the safe side of all my choices.

That is good to know, and something I would have expected with you.  While you may be a jumper, I know that you do not jump into relationships.  Nevertheless, your ease with risk in general likely influences your willingness to start a relationship.   
 
I am also not risk averse.  As a result over my long years I have enjoyed many rewards.  And along the way I have experienced some failures.  The key after a failure is to get back on the horse.
 

Whats the worse that can happen? a divorce?

               
Yes, and its only temporary.  Speaking of temporary:
 

i'm on injured reserve, and therefor bored..

Sorry to hear and I hope you are back on your feet soon.  When do you say that you are too old for what you do?  What is the age range of men in your profession?

[Turboguy]

Again, sidestepping the question.  I infer from your response he was indeed not ready - or am I wrong about that also?  If so why did he not get back on the horse, or sign up for a tour or two?

Why did PhotoGuy not get back on the horse?  There are a lot of things that I could say but I can't say.  I really don't think he is over Larisa enough to move on with his life yet.  He is still very much hung up on her even though she returned to Maripol years ago and now has a child (not his).  I think he is content to work on his photos and maybe someday will be able to move on with his life but I don't think he is ready yet. 
 

My question was whether or not Van is in position to follow the path you took, step for step.. like in 10 years and 100k+  You often tout that almost anyone can do it and I agree.. with practically unlimited funds and time.. something most of us don't have.  Surely you agree one should set his/her limits realistically.  If I have one pound of flour, a few cups of sugar, an egg or two  and some milk I can bake a cake.. but I can't bake two.  It's really that simple.  Lets say someone with 10k to spend on a search finally meets a very nice woman on the third tour and a trip with Eduard, but has neither the vacation time or funds to go back for another year or more.  Wouldn't that be kinda sad? the only alternative is to pull the K1 papers out and get it submitted in a rush.  Isn't that the thoughts that went through PG's mind when reality hit him smack in the face?  Oh yes, the 90 day 'trial' marriage alternative..  good luck with that number.

Only Van knows the reality of what he can and can not afford.  If he is able to save 10 grand a year then he could afford two and maybe even three trips a year.  If he is able to save 10 grand a year it is not out of the question that this is not new and he might have some savings to tap for any phase that got expensive.   Yes, perhaps it took me more trips and money than most guys but that also follows with most guys, including Van, won't have to make that many trips and spend that much money.  If it took everyone 20+ trips and 6 digits of money to succeed and it was well known that it could not be done for less, how many guys would really try it.  Very few would be my guess.
 

Yes they were there.. in abundance, but was there exposure and persistence? - Only Van can answer that, but lets take your situation at your last social.. you totally disregarded a room full of Jack's brides on a hunch something better awaited elsewhere?  Yes it worked out for you and that's great but it does not say much about your intentions toward them.  You simply should have skipped it and flown to where you really wanted to be instead of wasting the time of the women that were waiting for you, or were they all really that bad?  Ahh.. but yes you needed to accompany your son.. IIRC you were trying to show him how to do this RW 'thing' also or?  I take it that did not work out either, or is he still following your advice by signing up for more tours or working with Eduard?  Or maybe this 'thing' is indeed not for everybody?
 

My son can be very outgoing in some ways and very shy in other ways.  I was not sure he would go without me and I really hoped it would change his life otherwise I would not have considered a tour at that point in time (just before meeting my wife).  No, my son made one follow up trip after Jack's tour.  He has occassionally thought about another of Jack's tours.  Right now he seems to be happy leading the single life and says he will never get married again.  Truthfully that might be the best thing for him. 
 
I didn't disregard a room full of women.  I did go with little concern about what results I would have for myself and mostly was happy just being a wing man for my son.  I did meet the women and go through the motions.  I did meet some really great women and if my trip to meet my wife had been a bust I would have booked a trip to Kharkov and Lugansk within a few weeks of my return.  As it is I could not be happier with the way things have turned out.

[BC]

TG,

I'm glad to see that in a way, even if a bit roundabout, we can indeed agree on a lot of things.  Thanks for taking the time for your candid reply.

[Jumper]

Gator,

for what it's worth-
my post was just exploring  how I personally view the  bolded Lonely planet *ideal*.
as it seemed interesting ..



 
 As far as when someone is too old for what I do, that's a bit convoluted anymore.
I'm way past the age considered average, or even retirement ,age for a true professional. However the amateur side of it, I would merely be on the older end of a quite normal range. My current job requires a bit of risk certainly, but has changed considerably over the years, and far less risk than prior,the hobbie /enthusiast side would be the true risk element now.
 When both your life's passion ,and your work,merge.. it gets a bit complex to separate,
and quite hard to step back far enough away to be truly self aware about it?

Only as example: A surfer who went from enthusiast , to competition, to making a living at it ,to retirement from that aspect,  but still actively designing surf boards and equipment, hours testing this, occasionally competing,and of course still surfing for enjoyment.
His  element of risk may or may not change all that much during the course of the changes, and when he is too *old* for any given aspect,  gets a bit grey as well, no pun intended.

How's that for a very long  *I don't know* ,
or perhaps more accurately * I don't want to know* answer?

 
Just trying to keep in the drawn out theme of the thread..
 

[Admin]

I reassessed the post quite quickly and as Boe pointed out I realized that I'd probably over stepped the mark and posted private information my wife would not want public knowledge.

I think it's irrelevant how many people you or I think may have not read the original; the resulting edit was not aimed at them but to the ones that did. That you automatically think I had some dubious motives for doing that implies a lot, especially when there is nothing in that edit that is in any way derogatory nor does it have any negative inferences towards others.

"Upset" is probably an overstatement. A little insulted, yes, particularly as my motives for editing were driven by the utmost respect for my wife.

Ade,

Once again, you presume that my comments are directed at your character. They are not. They are directed at the post you made and then edited.

Thanks for the clarification about the "upset" comment. Neither were my comments intended to be upsetting OR insulting. They were, as I wrote earlier, merely my candid and sincere observations - and maybe not valid.

As for your motive for editing the post and leaving what you did - I understood you to say that you left it with a brief explanation so that those who saw it would understand why you removed it. I get that. At the same time, you should understand that a much larger number of people, like myself, did not read your original post. Now, with the edits in place, it raises those questions I mentioned earlier. I cannot know for sure you intended for those questions to be raised - but having seen your posts for some time, I have some sense of your intelligence (quite high) and my surmise was that you HAD considered this aspect and your post was intentional.

Anyway - we've probably examined this enough now as I am repeating myself. Only you know what were your motives with the editing. Your options were to leave the post as-is (was), remove everything leaving only a blank post, or edit as you did with an explanation - albeit an explanation that leaves questions. If my surmise of your motives is/was incorrect, you have my apology.

- Dan

[van1970]

Well thanks for the advice.
 
What I have decided not just from here but from my father as well is that the Philippine is a much better place for me.
 
I join cherry blossoms and after talking with many women most seemed to young to me. I cannot see myself with someone under 25. A few were scammers. I might have avoid some very pretty young women just because they seemed to good to be true.
Anyway, I find a lady I liked she is 32 no children and works way to much. I plan to visit her in august. If things go well during my stay I plan to ask her to marry. She wasn't the youngest and didn't have the prettiest pictures but she seems the most real. The fact she is a native kind of english speaker, she is a catholic, and her great great grandparents were america goes a long way with me. I say that since the Philippines as once america and the locals were american then.
 
I guess I took what I saw here to decide this course of action. Maybe it was the machine post not sure. What russian and ukraine women have for me is just a pretty white face. Getting Laid isn't what I want out of a tour. I want the woman to come home with me and the end of it or at least in a brief time period afterwards.
 
Thanks for the advice
Van

[Turboguy]

I am sure we all wish you the best.  I was a member of Cherry Blossoms ages ago and I thought they ran a very good service.  I think you will do fine but you might want to think about having more than one woman lined up to visit.  Just in case.
 
I think we would all appreciate it if you could stop back after your trip in August and let us know how it went.  I am sure whatever woman you end up with will be a very happy and lucky woman.

[ML]

her great great grandparents were america goes a long way with me. I say that since the Philippines as once america and the locals were american then.

Not the main point of course; but I must ask . . . . really?


Aside from that:  Philippines is a great choice . . . . if you can find a woman of an appropriate height, and she doesn't have 4 children.

Their average height is just too short for me.  And the good looking women are really few and far between.  But when you find the good looking 1 in 50 or so . . . . wow they can be quite the stunner.

I spent time in Philippines as a young man, and loved the country and the people.  Very, very pleasant and happy people; however, tendency to be a bit childlike and naive overall.

And for those who think FSU families are tight . . . you ain't seen nothing until you encounter a Philippines family.

Which also reminds me; they share everything, with those who have money kicking in to pay for everyone.  So guess who is going to pay and pay and pay?

[Kuna]

Van,

All the best with the PI route.  Be careful as you should be where ever you seek a wife INCLUDING AT HOME.

Try not to rush in because extra time together will make life easier later.

Also,  try not to listen to people like ManLooking too much.  He is ManLooking for a reason and can't work out how to get to ManMarried yet.

(ML - you'll probably find the reason is within you rather than the women. No offense meant but your attitude towards women is becoming more evident as time goes on.  I hope you can come to terms with it and find something significant in future.)

[The Natural]

Van, I wish you the best of luck with your trip in August. I wouldn't agree with your statement that Russian and Ukrainian women are just pretty faces. You can find all sorts everywhere, but when you do find a real and good one, you will know.
 
But I'm sure you will do well in the Philipines too. Both my brothers are married to Philipines and have been for many years. My two sisters-in-law are fantastic women. Very kind and sweet and real hard workers too. They are very decent and helpful women and I'm sure there are millions more like that in the Philipines.

[Muzh]

Van, I hope you are still reading this list.


Years ago, when I was a student at Ohio State U I met one of the most beautiful Filipino girl. We became friends and I met her family, an American man with a Filipino woman. They were married more than 20 years and you should have seen how lovingly she looked at her husband.


Some would say the same way my Ukrainian wife looks at me. And vise versa.


Good luck bud.

[I/O]

Van

Stick around here. The advice for Russia or the FSU is good for Asia also (with a little localising).

[van1970]

I am not saying all that russian women are is just a pretty face. I don't know any russian women.  I am talking about myself and what attracted me to russian women is that they were pretty and slim.

[GQBlues]

Wonderful news, Van! I'm glad to see you made the next logical decisison on your life plans. I wish you well...
 
I'm with the folks here. Dating is dating, and women are women, so I hope you stick around and participate in the forum anyway. T/R even perhaps...? 
 
My first two basic tips for you...experience the jeepneys but make sure your body parts are well inside the vehicle, and yeah....try to hold back saying 'Mahal Kita' to any of the pinay unless you are very certain!
 
If you do go, do not go further south than the Palawan Island.
 
Exciting time, Van. Enjoy it!

[Jumper]

do not go further south than the Palawan Island.

Matt,
I certainly would heed your advice, and merely out of  curiosity..

why?





Van, good luck in your ventures here, or in any country.

I would be one to absolutely encourage you to get out and about,
 in your area, and the world.

That said:
 I would also be the first to encourage you to not base much ,certainly not marraige , on one short  visit, be that in the next city over , or a few time zones around the world.
Take your time and get to the know the person ...

Everyone's comfort level is different..of how much face time they need..
. but its generally  a concern  when statements regarding a very first meeting go :
"if it goes well i'll propose"

Some have been successful that way ,
but the general advice  here (or for any country) would be to relax and take what time you both need.

You've taken some flack here , with a good attitude , and seem reasoned and able to
look at things from various view pionts..

again i wish you good luck, in what ever you decide!



 

[Faux Pas]

Anyway, I find a lady I liked she is 32 no children and works way to much. I plan to visit her in august. If things go well during my stay I plan to ask her to marry. She wasn't the youngest and didn't have the prettiest pictures but she seems the most real. The fact she is a native kind of english speaker, she is a catholic, and her great great grandparents were america goes a long way with me. I say that since the Philippines as once america and the locals were american then.
 

Well, it doesn't appear no one else will acknowledge the 800 lb gorilla in the room, so I will.


Van, congratulations on your decision. I would be remiss if I didn't at least caution you to take a step back, see the forest and the trees. With your statement quoted above, seems you are already planning to marry a women you haven't met yet. It reeks of desperation and a shot in the dark. Philippine, FSUW, American, it doesn't matter, women are women and the nefarious will sniff out this desperation to use and abuse you.


Slow down guy. Stop and smell the roses in a courtship. Do all you can do to make sure the lady loves you and not looking to take advantage of your inexperience and situation. Why the rush? As for the woman, just being able to tolerate you and a first meeting with you hardly qualifies her as wife material. Be careful or you could be headlong into a situation worse than you have now. FWIW

[Jumper]

FP-
 well i thought i did  a bit?
perhaps it was only a a 170 pound gorilla though..(my case)

That said:
 I would also be the first to encourage you to not base much ,certainly not marraige , on one short  visit, be that in the next city over , or a few time zones around the world.
Take your time and get to the know the person ...

Everyone's comfort level is different..of how much face time they need..
. but its generally  a concern  when statements regarding a very first meeting go :
"if it goes well i'll propose"

Some have been successful that way ,
but the general advice  here (or for any country) would be to relax and take what time you both need.

[Faux Pas]

FP-
 well i thought i did  a bit?
perhaps it was only a a 170 pound gorilla though..(my case)

166 but who's counting?    Jump you tend to be so genteel and eloquent sometimes your message gets disguised

[Gylden]

Well, it doesn't appear no one else will acknowledge the 800 lb gorilla in the room, so I will.


Van, congratulations on your decision. I would be remiss if I didn't at least caution you to take a step back, see the forest and the trees. With your statement quoted above, seems you are already planning to marry a women you haven't met yet. It reeks of desperation and a shot in the dark. Philippine, FSUW, American, it doesn't matter, women are women and the nefarious will sniff out this desperation to use and abuse you.


Slow down guy. Stop and smell the roses in a courtship. Do all you can do to make sure the lady loves you and not looking to take advantage of your inexperience and situation. Why the rush? As for the woman, just being able to tolerate you and a first meeting with you hardly qualifies her as wife material. Be careful or you could be headlong into a situation worse than you have now. FWIW

This is some real good advice IMO!

[Gator]

Van,
 
Thanks for returning to announce your decision.  You are a man of high integrity.
 
In my many years I have met a couple of Filipino families.  Someone earlier wrote that they are close.  Yes indeed.  And happy and fun loving, and sexually frank.
 
If you marry this woman, you are marrying her culture.  Before you take the trip I suggest that you befriend a couple of Americans with Filipino roots. Talking with them will serve two purposes:  1) allow you to tell your woman about the Filipino community in your city and 2) learn from the American-Filipino community what to expect.  They may even have some suggestions. 

[GQBlues]

Matt,
I certainly would heed your advice, and merely out of  curiosity..

why?

That's Abu Sayef country AJ. They've been known to run incursions around the region and Palawan Island should be the farthest south any Amerikanski ought to be thinking of going. They'll take you for ransom. They've tailed off quite a bit in recent months but with OBL's demise, why temp faith. Too bad too, you can hit a lot of double overheads and nasty double breakers along the southern tip...

Palawan Island is pretty amazing to visit overall. They have a lot of 5-star nipa hotel accommodations, 200 yards off shores on knee high crystal clear 80 degree water...just don't go further south regardless of surf report.
 

Well, it doesn't appear no one else will acknowledge the 800 lb gorilla in the room, so I will....

I also sort of did, too FP. I just sort of danced around it when I said...
 

try to hold back saying 'Mahal Kita' to any of the pinay unless you are very certain!

Mahal Kita is "I love You" in Tagalog.    Pinay being Filipina in local language.