Cursing women

[The Natural]

Germans are actually not very often blond haired and blue eyed compared to Scandinavians.  Remember during WWII when Germany was occupying Norway Hitler allowed his men to mate with as many blue eyed blond Norwegian women as possible, as he considered them to be superior.  These mixed German Norwegian children were not popular after the end of the war, as I'm sure The Natural can confirm.

This is actually true. Many a German is quite dark compared to Scandinavians and while I don't know the percentage of blondes (naturally) in Scandinavia (many are blond when they are a child and then their hair gets darker as they get older), I read once that's it's about 90% of the indiginous population who has blue eyes. I'm one of them. But that figure is bound to go down as the populace mix and the genes for brown eyes are dominant to blue eyes.
 
Not condoning anything what Hitler stood for, but yes, Norwegian women were very sought after by German soldiers. After the war ended however, and the soldiers went home, these women met an awful fate. The women who had been with German soldiers were called "German sluts", got their hair shaved and had to live in shame for decades. They had been with the enemy, so to speak. Sad story really and the children of such relationships were also treated badly, being called "German bastards" or something like that.

[OlgaH]

I've never understood what a "Cossack" is other then they excel at military type things.  Can you please explain why a Cossack is not "Ukrainian" or Slav??

Here is a good article about Cossacks"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cossacks

[OlgaH]

Ukrainian poetry is full of references to "black eyed beauties". 

also a good example Taras Shevchenko a famous Ukrainian poet, writer and artist.

"Fall in love, oh dark-browed maidens..."
("Katerina" 1838)
 

[Boethius]

Here is a good article about Cossacks"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cossacks

That is good, except at the time the Zaporizhian Cossacks first appeared (during the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, to protect against Tatar raids), there was no such thing as a "Ukrainian".
 
A few additional facts about Cossacks:
 
1.  They swore an oath of loyalty to uphold Orthodoxy (especially true after the first Cossack uprising);
 
2.  They were always free, never serfs;
 
3.  They often had independent, or autonomous regions, as early as the 1400's.
 

also a good example Taras Shevchenko a famous Ukrainian poet, writer and
artist.

"Fall in love, oh dark-browed maidens..."
("Katerina" 1838)

A poem every Ukrainian school child learned, including those in the diaspora (that and Zapovit), especially the opening lines -
 
Кохайтеся, чорнобриві,
Та не з москалями,
 Бо москалі — чужі люде,
 Роблять лихо з вами
 
Shevchenko is also buried at Kaniv, where the first Zaporizhian Cossack settlement was located.

[Boethius]

And of course Catherine the Great was German as well.

Yes, but not only Catherine.  Catherine, though, invited millions of Germans to the Russian Empire, to settle the empty lands of Ukraine and Southern Russia, so that they would not fall to the Ottoman Empire.
 
Ethnic Germans comprised a large part of the merchant class and the intelligentsia in the Russian Empire.  In fact, at the very start of his career, Kant applied for a position in St. Petersburg, but was deemed "unworthy" by the exclusively German faculty, because his  Königsberg roots were deemed too "provincial".
 
 

Yes I know the Normanist theory is disputed but there is simply too much evidence, such as the city of Novgorod.  If enough Russians would do DNA testing I think that would also prove that many Russians have Scandinavian
roots.  The proof is in the pudding as they say.

Not sure I agree with you, and many scholars don't.  In fact, even some scholars who accept the Varangian theory state that those invitees were not only Scandinavians, but a motley crew from across Europe, however, their leaders were Viking.
 
I'm not suggesting you're wrong, just that it is still an issue that is unsettled.

[OlgaH]

That is good, except at the time the Zaporizhian Cossacks first appeared (during the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, to protect against Tatar raids), there was no such thing as a "Ukrainian".
 

That time it was Malaya Rus' (Little Russia). According to a noted Ukrainian historian Dmytro Yavornytsky the Zaporizhian Cossacks established the Zaporizhian Sich around 1553-1556. The Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth used the Zaporizhian Cossacks as an additional army in the wars with Turkey and Sweden, and finally the Cossacks found themselves being pushed into the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth vassalage, and that led to the Khmelnytsky Uprising and foundation of Cossack Hetmanate, and later...

[Boethius]

"Malaya Rus'" is a name given to what is "Ukraine" by the Mongols.
 
What I meant was that there was no such thing as a "Ukrainian" then.  Poles and Ukrainians spoke the same language.  What separated Cossacks from the Poles, and from many peasants of the region, was religion.  Cossacks, unlike Poles, were Orthodox.
 
Ukrainian national conciousness did not develop until the late 19th century, long after it had in most of Europe.

[Rubicon]

I guess I was curious as to what the ethnic roots are of a Cossack.  According to the article Olga posted:

Some historians suggest that the Cossack people were of mixed ethnic origins, descending from Turks, Tatars, Russians, Ukrainians and others who settled or passed through the vast Steppe.^[10] However some turkologists argue that cossacks are descendants of native Cumans of Ukraine, who lived there long ago before Mongol invasion[citation needed].

So once again ethnic roots are disputed.  It seems to me the most important thing about them is that they were fierce soldiers and liked their independence. They sound like the original American colonists who rebelled against Great Britain, or maybe the English who were sent to Australia to start a country.

And don't forget the legendary Cossack "Janus" (Yanis) from James Bonds Goldeneye; whose parents had been murdered by Stalin after being betrayed by the British at the end of WWII, and who wanted to get his revenge.

[Boethius]

The word "Cossack" is of Turkic origin ("kazak").
 
The first Cossack settlements, though, were in what is now Ukraine.  But at that time, there was no such thing as a "Ukrainian".  There were no "Russian" Cossacks.  These are notions that developed later.  Zaporizhian Cossacks spread out to various regions when Catherine II broke the Zaporizhian Sich (notwithstanding wikipedia).
 
St. Petersburg is built on the bones of Cossacks and Siberia had many Cossack settlements.  Tchaikovsky, for example, was the grandson of an exiled Ukrainian Cossack.

[Rubicon]

Yes, but not only Catherine.  Catherine, though, invited millions of Germans to the Russian Empire, to settle the empty lands of Ukraine and Southern Russia, so that they would not fall to the Ottoman Empire.
 
Ethnic Germans comprised a large part of the merchant class and the intelligentsia in the Russian Empire.  In fact, at the very start of his career, Kant applied for a position in St. Petersburg, but was deemed "unworthy" by the exclusively German faculty, because his  Königsberg roots were deemed too "provincial".
 
 
Not sure I agree with you, and many scholars don't.  In fact, even some scholars who accept the Varangian theory state that those invitees were not only Scandinavians, but a motley crew from across Europe, however, their leaders were Viking.
 
I'm not suggesting you're wrong, just that it is still an issue that is unsettled.

I read somewhere that a lot of the farms and vineyards in Crimea were once owned by ethnic Germans.  Unfortunately after the Communists took over in 1917 they stole the land from them and sent the Germans packing to Siberia.

I suspect that DNA testing of blond blue eyed Russians would show most of their original ancestry as being Scandinavian.  Just my personal theory and belief that people like the Vikings would have expanded in all directions.

[Boethius]

Many were owned by Germans, but most were owned by Greeks, who had settled that region long before Kiev Rus' was established.
 
During so called perestroika, idiot Gorbachev ordered many of those vineyards, some with grapevines that had been there continuously for 2,000 years, destroyed.  My husband worked those vineyards as a teen, at that time, it was obligatory.  He learned a lot about wine making (he used to help make wine), and he knows a lot about wine, although he doesn't drink. 

[Rubicon]

This is actually true. Many a German is quite dark compared to Scandinavians and while I don't know the percentage of blondes (naturally) in Scandinavia (many are blond when they are a child and then their hair gets darker as they get older), I read once that's it's about 90% of the indiginous population who has blue eyes. I'm one of them. But that figure is bound to go down as the populace mix and the genes for brown eyes are dominant to blue eyes.
 
Not condoning anything what Hitler stood for, but yes, Norwegian women were very sought after by German soldiers. After the war ended however, and the soldiers went home, these women met an awful fate. The women who had been with German soldiers were called "German sluts", got their hair shaved and had to live in shame for decades. They had been with the enemy, so to speak. Sad story really and the children of such relationships were also treated badly, being called "German bastards" or something like that.

When I was stationed in Germany the daughters from good families were discouraged from having affairs with American soldiers.  The local Germans called them NATO mattresses if they did.

[Rubicon]

The word "Cossack" is of Turkic origin ("kazak").
 
The first Cossack settlements, though, were in what is now Ukraine.  But at that time, there was no such thing as a "Ukrainian".  There were no "Russian" Cossacks.  These are notions that developed later.  Zaporizhian Cossacks spread out to various regions when Catherine II broke the Zaporizhian Sich (notwithstanding wikipedia).
 
St. Petersburg is built on the bones of Cossacks and Siberia had many Cossack settlements.  Tchaikovsky, for example, was the grandson of an exiled Ukrainian Cossack.

So do you think that they have Turkish roots or do you think that they have Cuman Kipchap roots??  The map I looked at of Eurasia in the 12th century shows the Cumans as being to the east of Kiev Rus. 

[Boethius]

I think the word just has a Turkic root.  Lots of Ukrainian, and Russian, for that matter (though more Ukrainian) words have Turkic roots.

[Rubicon]

I think the word just has a Turkic root.  Lots of Ukrainian, and Russian, for that matter (though more Ukrainian) words have Turkic roots.

I meant to say, do you think that Cossacks have Turkish ethnicity, or do you agree with the historians who say that their ethnicity was from the Cuman people??

Guess it doesn't really matter, but I am curious because as I understand it the Cossacks were often fighting against invasions by Turkish armies into Ukraine.

[Boethius]

I think they were predominantly Slavs.  In fact, I know they were. 
 
The Cossacks were fairly sophisticated.  Although they liked to party and conducted a lot of raids, they were predominantly  literate, and their leadership (i.e. officers/families) was accorded the status of nobility, with the same rights as Russian nobility, at the time the Treaty of Pereiaslav was signed. 

[Kuna]

So once again ethnic roots are disputed.  It seems to me the most important thing about them is that they were fierce soldiers and liked their independence. They sound like the original American colonists who rebelled against Great Britain, or maybe the English who were sent to Australia to start a country.

Pardon???  I think you're mistaken about the British settlement of Australia.

The early settlers weren't "fierce soldiers", and most of the early immigrants certainly would have liked their independence... they were convicts.

The first "free" settlers were German Missionaries (btw), mostly around Adelaide and a little later up into Queensland.

The "battles" were short as the British brought their guns and the Aborigines only had spears, etc.  Hardly "fierce soldiers".

Sorry for the off-topic post interrupting the off-topic posts (which are very interesting by the way).

[Kuna]

Ade,

I caught these comments a few days ago but haven't had a chance to give you an education yet...  please read carefully,  I don't want you to miss out on any of the important ways life works. 

So your wife lies to you then.

Geez this is such a cut and dried accusation (it's not a question - there's no "?").  Liar or not a liar!

By your definition it seems we are all liars - unless of course some of us (you) are so elated at your chance of marrying a hot FSUW that you've lost your senses.  ( I think this is probably a part of it... but you've got deeper issues we'll get to later.)


Let me throw a little fuel on the fire - and prove what a wise and smart man you are...

My wife lies - I know yours NEVER would...  but mine... she's a liar!

My wife overtly and outrageously lied to me almost 3 years ago.  For several weeks she was hiding something from me and I never worked it out until right at the end.  I even questioned her a few times but she continued the deception...  I'm saying she was steadfast in her deceit - but I sensed something was going on all along.

Finally it all came out when visiting a friends house on the Saturday night.  As we went inside some idiot turned on the lights and all these people yelled out "Surprise".  It was my 40th birthday and she'd been planning the surprise party for over 6 weeks without letting one concrete detail come out.

I've got to be very careful for the rest of my life because she deceived me so badly...  I'm sure you'll agree.

 

My wife says that is just weird or BS. My wife really doesn't like swearing and has some serious issues with my rare (okay, not so rare) slip. But she'd never lie and say that Russian doesn't have swear words.

One thing I've noticed over the past 6 months, beside my wife and a few other odd exceptions here, most FSUW we know or know of seem to have a flexible view of the truth and of morality. Put it down to a cultural thing if you want.

You're wife never lies???  I think it's really cute you believe that, really!!!  Very cute.  You're probably a very sweet but naive thinker in real life aren't you?

Of course...  it's such a foolish claim to make because we all "lie" for many reasons.  If you want to crucify others over being "liars"... God help your wife when you finally come out of your euphoric "someone finally loves me" phase and catch her doing what comes naturally to everyone at times.

Have your feelings been hurt in the past when someone lied to you?  Is that your problem?

Call it what you want but I've had my eyes opened a lot over the past 6 months. As a result, I think I'm even luckier now than I thought I was a year ago, and that is saying something as I thought I was a very lucky guy to start with. I think that most WM haven't the foggiest idea; and I was one of the ignorant ones until recently.

Good luck guys. You're going to need plenty of it. 

There you go again cutie pie.  Are you still running bubble baths nightly and giving foot rubs?  Do you call her in the morning when driving to work to tell her how much you miss her? 

 



Hey,  you're a Unix DBA or something aren't you???  Let's face it - your life would be as boring as watching paint dry without having a hot RW to come home to.  I'm not condemning you for feeling or acting like a 16 year old...  just pointing out you need to be careful not to be too harsh and judgmental with her when you finally come back to reality and find out that wife of yours is a liar too!

it's just that i just dont view an *attitude* of a woman ignoring something she disapproves of in this fashion ,
as in your earlier reference to Kunas post,
 as some kind of out right * lie*, or a dishonest person.

Jumper has it right...  Ade... you should have listened to him earlier to stop looking just such a novice.

Personalities are very interesting things...  one of my wife's personality traits (as Gator realised later) is that she doesn't deal with "silly or trival" things lightly.  She would MUCH prefer to move out of a conversation about profanity because she is very much opposed to it.  One reason why she really doesn't like Ukraine is that she says she hears men (mostly I guess) using profanity in public and she thinks it's a sign of their low class.

Hmmmm.. Ade,  you admitted to be a frequent swearer didn't you???  It probably is a class thing then!

She also doesn't deal well in very stressful or emotional situations.  I've learned a really neat trick when trying to communicate over such matters by not trying to get her to open up immediately.  Just let things sink in and she will discuss them when she is ready.

This week has been a good example because my cousin sadly committed suicide last weekend (divorce/custody battle/depression/booze/drugs/etc) and on hearing it she immediately clammed up and wouldn't talk about it.  Things have obviously been quite up and down for the family this week yet it took until tonight before she was ready to talk about it.

Her perspectives were interesting, but not relevant to this discussion...  but I'd say her flippant rebuttal through the "There are no swear words in Russian" is similar in so far as if it's something she doesn't want to discuss she'll brush it off quickly.  If it's something important she'll usually mull it over and raise it again herself later... if it's something silly or trivial it'll not be raised later.

I don't think this is a cultural thing as I had a previous gf who was a bit like this... but then again I've had others that wanted to argue out every fine detail until they "won"... and I know by experience which I prefer.
 
 

Technically Kuna's wife did lie if she were under oath to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. However.... Ade you are a smart man...... is it plausible that she simply asserted that Russian curse words are forbidden in her house.  She has been in Oz long enough to lose some of that FSUW directness.   It would be akin to saying husbands do not sleep with other women because if they do they are no longer husbands.

Gator - you're right.  As usual, you have the life experience and wisdom to see things that people like Ade would have never considered.
 
 

Let me put it more explicitly. I now know that a lot, perhaps the majority, of FSUW from all walks of life and a variety of towns and cities across Russia and Ukraine, think nothing of lying to, or manipulating their husbands. I'm not talking of "scammers" here; I'm talking about your average FSU wife or girlfriend that thinks it's okay and absolutely normal to tell little fibs to manipulate their spouse because they are "the neck" in the relationship and it's up to them to point you guys in the right direction - as in the decisions they want you to make - no matter what that takes. Flexible ethics and morals are normal; praising a country because it trusts its citizens to declare if they need a train ticket on the one hand and then thinking it's okay to cheat and not buy one on the other, is a small, but telling example. "If the rules are such that they can be bent or broken without consequence, then they deserve to be bent or broken." Most don't consider this to be wrong.

Kuna's wife's little "white lie" that the Russian language doesn't contain swear words is a blatant lie no matter how you want to sugar it up and it is a symptom of the indifferent disregard that some or even most FSUW have for the truth. Why did she do it? Perhaps she is fiercely patriotic and she didn't want her husband to think any less of her culture. It still doesn't make it any less of a lie though.

See, you're virtually accusing my wife of having "flexible ethics and morals"... and I take exception to that.

What I love about internet forums is that any moron can come here and make any statement they like without recourse.

See - you're biggest problem is this... you know nothing about my wife (as evidence by suggesting she is fiercely patriotic - which she most definitely is not, if anything quite the contrary) yet you're pea sized brain jumps to a conclusion that she's a liar.  Then a few people try to talk some sense into you and open your eyes to reality and you keep digging yourself into a deeper hole. 

The social glue in polite societies is indeed such *white lies* as you point out in Kuna's wife's example.
If you think your own wife, or yourself, are completely immune to practicing such lies ,then again you are not being honest here.or with yourself, and that is no matter how you try and spin and  wiggle around it,neither of you are 100% honest all the time in all social situations.If you want to make the issue black and white , then it is black and white, any falsehood ,and any with holding of all information, is the same as a lie ethically.

Yeah... hate to say it Ade, but Jumper has you up against the wall with this one too.  It seems you have some real problems to work through and Jumper and a few others here have tried to give you a clue.
 
 Tell me something...  what hapened in your past that caused you to be emotionally damaged?  To jump to such accusations suggests to me you've been lied to in the past and your little feelings have been hurt.
 
 Of course you could just be a love-sick puppy dog who thinks his wife is the "bestest, most adorable cutie-pie in the whole wide world - who also NEVER lies"...  but even if you are that's kinda sweet for a grown man.
 
 So what are you?
 
 - Emotionally damaged;
 - A puppy dog;
 - An idiot, or;
 - A troll?
 
 Have a nice life Lassie!




Oh Gator, you asked the question earlier whether the unfounded slurs were some sort of a continuing feud with Ade.  I don't remember ever responding to any of his posts previously but I reckon he'll come back with more attacks and slurs rather than just taking it like a man and apologising like he should. 
 
The initial comments could have been easily left to rest but wen corrected by others he felt compelled to expand on them over and over again.  What is he???  Another Sculpto?  I hope his woman ends up better than Sculpto's was once he gets over his infatuation.

[OlgaH]

The word "Cossack" is of Turkic origin ("kazak").
 

There are many works on Cossacks and their origin. According to some historians the origin of Cossacks came from the such ethnics group as Kasogi (Cherkess aka Adyghe) and Brodnici (an ethic group of Slavic- Turkic origin, where Slavs "mixed" with Khazars, Bulgars and Oghuz Turks. The lower part of Kuban territory was settled by the ancient Cherkess nation in the 10-14 centuries.

Even if to look at the photographs it is noticeable that the style of the Cossacks garments resemble the Cherkess garments.
Adyghe people
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adyghe_people

and below the photos of Cossacks

The Cossack's garment also calls cherkeska.

[OlgaH]

A few photos of Cossack women.

[OlgaH]

Elena Chorba (or Choba), a Cossack woman volunteer who served under the name Mikhail Chorba due to the petition by her husband, her fellow countrymen, and mediation by a Lieutenant General of Kuban region Mikhail Pavlovich Babych. She was awarded with Crosses of St. George of 3 and 4 Class and Medals of St. George of 2, 3 and 4 Class.

[Boethius]

Of course you could just be a love-sick puppy dog who thinks his wife is the "bestest, most adorable cutie-pie in the whole wide world - who also NEVER lies"...  but even if you are that's kinda sweet for a grown man.

Why?  There's been a fair amount of research that holds that the happiest marriages are those in which the spouse is idealized, though I'm not suggesting in any way that Ade idealizes his wife.
 
Unlike all of you, I don't think Kuna's wife lied.  I am pretty sure she knows there are "bad words" in Russian, and that others know she knows them, even if she doesn't use them.  I took that answer as "I don't want to discuss such a matter.  Don't ask again."
 
 
As for the implied assertion that every spouse lies, I can guarantee you, mine doesn't.  He'll be brutally honest - polite in delivery, but still, the truth - even if you don't want to hear it.   

[Gator]

 
Unlike all of you, I don't think Kuna's wife lied. 

"All of you?"  It was just one man who said liar, liar, pants on fire.  Such seemed so odd coming from him because his posts are usually insightful.  Presumably, he was still reeling from learning  from his wife that not a small number of RW wives in their social circle are deceiving their husbands.

[Boethius]

Then I apologize.  I should have posted "unlike others".  Others did call it a "lie" or a "white lie".  I didn't consider that statement any sort of fabrication.  Rather, to me, it was just a statement that she was "not going there, don't ask", and that particular response made that quite clear.

[Gator]

I didn't consider that statement any sort of fabrication.  Rather, to me, it was just a statement that she was "not going there, don't ask", and the response made that quite clear.

Yes; that is what the rest of us were saying.  And Kuna confirmed such above.  It was so obvious.