Cursing women

[Jumper]

 <blockquote>What is left from Indians in your culture?
</blockquote>

Popcorn. 
(No joke)

My grandfather,and a few others
 

[Misha]

Popcorn. 
(No joke)

Let us not forget the ubiquitous potato (South America) the tomato (Central America) and of course tobacco (North America) that has irrevocably shaped the FSU as well 

[Misha]

Misha, Canadians are Americans - you live in the continent of North America.

Sure, geographically from the Arctic to the tip of South America, we are all Americans, but in common parlance when people refer to Americans they are generally speaking of those North Americans from the USA, not the geographical expression 

[Anotherkiwi]

Sure, geographically from the Arctic to the tip of South America, we are all Americans, but in common parlance when people refer to Americans they are generally speaking of those North Americans from the USA, not the geographical expression 

So why delete the rest of my post (as a quote) when that was exactly my point? 

[Misha]

So why delete the rest of my post (as a quote) when that was exactly my point? 

Let's see, my original reply was to The Natural who wrote:

Don't know if they fled, got sick or homesick or whatever. But home they went and left Canada and USA for the Americans

In this case, saying that they left Canada "for the Americans" could be interpreted as meaning that the vikings left Canada for the people inhabiting the United States. And, I believe I put in a smiley indicating that I was being sardonic... However, if you want to start a global crusade to stamp out the incorrect usage of the term American to refer to solely those inhabitants of the United States of America, I am not holding you back

[chivo]

They were not driven out by "indigenous peoples".  The Templars from Scotland built a structure on the Eastern seaboard which is still there today, and they went as far as Minnesota.  The Templars became The Masons and founded the United States of America.  Most of the founding fathers were Masons and you can see their handiwork on the dollar bill and on Washington DC buildings and more.

They left a decent football team too! 
 

Popcorn. 
(No joke)

And casinos.
 
P.S. Boy this thread really went in a bizarre direction. Everybody OK? 

[The Natural]

As for Norway and Sweden...yes, they're separate now, but they used to be part of the same kingdom.  In any case, in this sort of discussion, I think most would be happy (?)/satisfied to be referred to as "Scandinavians."
 

Yes, you're right. We're historically the same people, along with people in Denmark and Iceland. There are sometimes, today, some friendly bickering going on, but we know we're the same people. And using the term Scandinavian is quite appropriate if one do not wish to expressively distinguist something in relation the our modern day of living in different nations.
 
Going back to the off-topic of whether where ones roots come from, is important or not, my impression is that it is very important for people living in USA, at least. There are today more than 4 million decendants of Norwegian immigrants and it seems they are way more patriotic of their roots than the locals are.

[Gator]

Going back to the off-topic of whether where ones roots come from, is important or not, my impression is that it is very important for people living in USA, at least. There are today more than 4 million decendants of Norwegian immigrants and it seems they are way more patriotic of their roots than the locals are.

Genealogy is a hobby for not a small number of Americans.  I suppose it is because we have such mixed bloodlines.   Or maybe its  just an excuse for some to travel to Ireland, Norway, etc. They searched their roots and discover their great grandfather was a scoundrel who was forced to leave.
  

Russians seem less interested in ancestors even though some have mixed blood: Tatars, Poles, Germans, etc.  My wonderful lady is somewhat of an exception.  Her father descended from Cossacks and she tells me their history, but only when I ask.   
 
Natural's Past History I:  A long time ago your Norwegian forefathers were pillaging and raping the coastal settlements in Ireland and Scotland.  They liked pretty women and kidnapped many, especailly the redheads.    And today one sees many redheads in Norway.  And absent the DNA for beauty, the Scottish and Irish women today are not so beautiful.
 
Natural's Past history II:  The Vikings traveled extensively, and the ancient Persian writings describe encounters with them.  The Persians considered them barbarians, even remarking had badly they stunk.    Remarkable contrast with Iranians and Norwegians of today.   

[Boethius]

 

And absent the DNA for beauty, the Scottish and Irish women today are not so beautiful.

 LOL.  Actually, there are a plenty of Scots beauties.   My aunt, ¼ English and ¾ Scots, was, in her day, a stunning beauty, more beautiful than 99% of women I’ve ever seen.  These days, I think that, in Scotland, they are victims of their diet, where vegetables are eschewed.  Remember, this is the country that invented the deep fried Mars bar.
 
 If your "theory" held true, Ukraine would be absent of beauties as well, because Turks and Tatars raided all the way to Ukraine's current Western borders, and took women as slaves, concubines, and to trade.  There is a famous legend of Roxelana, allegedly traded for her weight in gold to become part of the harem of Suleyman the Magnificant.  She rose to become his favourite, his wife, in fact, and had great influence on his rule, as she was also very intelligent.  During that time, the Turks did not invade Ukraine - 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roxelana

[Gator]

Boethius, I am just having a little fun and am not 100% serious. 
 
Nevertheless, SW are beautiful?   From a country that considers haggis culinary art.  Yes indeed there are some beauties there, yet the average IW is plain.  Maybe it is from burning cut peat for heat and milking cows.  I traveled through Ireland and Scotland with an AW who had 100% Irish bloodline.  She was far more attractive than anyone who resided there.  OTOH the Irish men can be very handsome, and do they ever have the gift for gab.
 
UW?  Just think how even more beautiful the UW would be today if the beauty DNA had not been reduced.  What was the population of Crimea and Ukraine vs. that of Ireland and Scotland at those times?
 
 

[Boethius]

 

I am just having a little fun and am not 100% serious. 

I knew that.

I think there are beautiful women, and handsome men, in every country, and not so great looking individuals in each.  However, physical beauty fades with time.  The ugliest people I have ever known were exceptionally attractive, physically.

[Rubicon]

Yes, you're right. We're historically the same people, along with people in Denmark and Iceland. There are sometimes, today, some friendly bickering going on, but we know we're the same people. And using the term Scandinavian is quite appropriate if one do not wish to expressively distinguist something in relation the our modern day of living in different nations.
 
Going back to the off-topic of whether where ones roots come from, is important or not, my impression is that it is very important for people living in USA, at least. There are today more than 4 million decendants of Norwegian immigrants and it seems they are way more patriotic of their roots than the locals are.

Perhaps behind the Irish.  We have our own national holiday--St. Patricks Day.

[Rubicon]

Genealogy is a hobby for not a small number of Americans.  I suppose it is because we have such mixed bloodlines.   Or maybe its  just an excuse for some to travel to Ireland, Norway, etc. They searched their roots and discover their great grandfather was a scoundrel who was forced to leave.
  

Russians seem less interested in ancestors even though some have mixed blood: Tatars, Poles, Germans, etc.  My wonderful lady is somewhat of an exception.  Her father descended from Cossacks and she tells me their history, but only when I ask.   
 
Natural's Past History I:  A long time ago your Norwegian forefathers were pillaging and raping the coastal settlements in Ireland and Scotland.  They liked pretty women and kidnapped many, especailly the redheads.    And today one sees many redheads in Norway.  And absent the DNA for beauty, the Scottish and Irish women today are not so beautiful.
 
Natural's Past history II:  The Vikings traveled extensively, and the ancient Persian writings describe encounters with them.  The Persians considered them barbarians, even remarking had badly they stunk.    Remarkable contrast with Iranians and Norwegians of today.   

You forget that many Russians and Ukrainians have Viking ancestry.  The blue eyes and blond hair give it away; as well as the fact that many historians acknowledge that the Viking princes were invited to help rule (Swedes) in Kiev and also traveled up river to many cities in Russia.  I cannot think of the city right now but one city in Russia in particular acknowledges their Scandinavian roots.

The Vikings also conquered Normandy France, and stayed there breeding with the locals.  Remember that the king of Normandy then conquered England. 

Remember that the Anglo Saxon tribes of Germany conquered parts of England. If you really like genealogy you might be interested to know that Prince Charles is more German then he is English.

[The Natural]

Perhaps behind the Irish.  We have our own national holiday--St. Patricks Day.

Yes, I know very well of St. Patricks Day. I suppose there are way more decendants from Ireland to the US than from Norway. It was very funny to watch this group of Americans on TV last year. They were all decendants from Norway and competed to see who would end up with 50 grand and an opportunity to meet all their relatives here. All the activities they had to go through to prove they had what it takes to be a real Norwegian, like eating head of sheep, holding a speech on Independence Day, driving a tractor, drinking and partying with high school graduates, learning Norwegian words, etc. This series was very popular here and people were impressed with their positivity and strong personalities 

[Gator]

 It was very funny to watch this group of Americans on TV last year. They were all decendants from Norway and competed to see who would end up with 50 grand and an opportunity to meet all their relatives here. All the activities they had to go through to prove they had what it takes to be a real Norwegian, like eating head of sheep, holding a speech on Independence Day, driving a tractor, drinking and partying with high school graduates, learning Norwegian words, etc.

Socail life is not very exciting in the Red River Valley of Minnesota and North Dakota.  These hard working Norwegian descendants would leap at such an opportunity.
 
Have you watched the films Fargo by the Coen brothers?  Great, award winning film on its own, and in addition it typecasts the American Norwegian.  The cast had script names such as Lundergaard, Gunderson, Gustafson, etc.    The lightly circulated film Lars and the Real Girl is a hoot.  IMO more entertaining than O'Horten , which has some good moments.
 

[The Natural]

Socail life is not very exciting in the Red River Valley of Minnesota and North Dakota.  These hard working Norwegian descendants would leap at such an opportunity.

You're right about Minnesota in particular being a state of many Norwegian decendants. And I read that 30% of people in North Dakota have Norwegian roots. But do you know who won the contest? A gay man from Seattle! I don't remember where they all came from, but there were also a cowboy type from Texas and a handsome surfer type from California. And this really sweet opera singer, Maia Surace (my favourite) from Chicago:
 
http://www.google.no/search?q=Maia+Surace&hl=no&sa=G&rlz=1W1ADRA_no&biw=1024&bih=459&prmd=ivnso&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&ei=GZwLTtybNczKswbMr8XjDg&ved=0CDQQsAQ
 

Have you watched the films Fargo by the Coen brothers?  Great, award winning film on its own, and in addition it typecasts the American Norwegian.  The cast had script names such as Lundergaard, Gunderson, Gustafson, etc.    The lightly circulated film Lars and the Real Girl is a hoot.  IMO more entertaining than O'Horten , which has some good moments.

I know well the title of the film "Fargo" but can't say at the moment if I've seen it. Some well-known Norwegian decendants in USA are Hilton (of the hotel chain), James Arness, Warren Christopher, Walter Mondale, Karl Rove, Marilyn Monroe, Evinrude (the outboard boat motors), James Cagney, Linda Evans, Peter Graves, Rene Zellwegger, Andrew sisters, Beck, Josh Groban, Iggy Pop, Tom Waits, John Ashcroft, Hubert Humphrey, Eliott Ness.
 
I remember I saw a documentary of an old man who went to USA at a young age. He had nothing but with hard work made a business and became a billionaire. Now, this guy was a hard-ass... very concervative. He talked about how people now there have become soft and didn't want to put effort into making something for themselves. I think the immigrants who went "over there" and who made it and stayed there, were the type of people who were hard-working and inventive. The rest came back I suppose. Back then, a 100 years ago or so, Norway was the poorest country in Europe. Now we're the richest. It's comfortable, but I'm afraid it makes too many of us too lazy and reliant of the welfare system. I've always had a thing for the US so-called "rugged individualism" and if practised in moderation and concern for those who cannot tend for themselves, I think it's healthy. Anyways, USA is the most interesting country in the world, even if someone think I'm bashing Americans when I say I'm worried about he US dollar 

[Boethius]

You forget that many Russians and Ukrainians have Viking ancestry.  The blue eyes and blond hair give it away; as well as the fact that many historians acknowledge that the Viking princes were invited to help rule (Swedes) in Kiev and also traveled up river to many cities in Russia.  I cannot think of the city right now but one city in Russia in particular acknowledges their Scandinavian roots.

The Normanist theory is but one theory, based on The Primary Chronicles.  There are anti Normanist historians, and the issue has not been resolved one way or another, despite centuries of dispute.
 
The "blue eyes and blonde hair" may just as easily come from the millions of Germans, Scots, and Irish who settled the Russian Empire, leaving surnames such as "Engelhardt", "von Rudinger", "Lermentov", "Gordon", and "Korbut".  Much of this region was also part of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, or the Rzeczpospolita. Further, if you travel throughout Ukraine, you will see many, many olive skinned, green or dark eyed Ukrainians with black hair.  Ukrainian poetry is full of references to "black eyed beauties".  In Central Ukraine, not far from Kyiv, there are two villages, on opposite sides of the river.  The inhabitants of one village are almost all all olive skinned and dark eyed, the inhabitants of the other village,  almost all blonde and blue eyed.
 
I suspect you are referring to Novgorod.
 

Remember that the Anglo Saxon tribes of Germany conquered parts of England. If you really like genealogy you might be interested to know that Prince Charles is more German then he is English.

 
A great deal of the Russian Empire's aristocracy was also originally of German ancestry.  Count Tolstoy's family, for example, originally came from a German principality.

[The Natural]

It must be impossible to keep an accurate record of all the movements around the world from different areas, I suppose. Here in the north of Norway, some people have brown eyes and a rather dark complexion. I've heard some time that there were sailors from the south of Europe stranded here years past and stayed. There's been trade for a very long time between the east and west in what is now our border to Russia. Of course there is mixed blood all over the place.

[Boethius]

Yes.  My husband describes Europe, in terms of the mixing of people, as a "swamp".

[The Natural]

Yes.  My husband describes Europe, in terms of the mixing of people, as a "swamp".

Rather like America then. Remind me if you will, are you the one married to an Ukrainian man?

[Boethius]

Ukrainian by country only, though he has Zaporizhian Cossack roots (and that Cossack, a general, married a German).   
 
I actually have more Ukrainian "blood" than he does.
 
 

[OlgaH]

Russians seem less interested in ancestors even though some have mixed blood: Tatars, Poles, Germans, etc.  My wonderful lady is somewhat of an exception.  Her father descended from Cossacks and she tells me their history, but only when I ask.   
 

It is not so easy to do in Russia, especially when after the Revolution and during the Stalin's regime many documents were lost and destroyed, people were executed with no investigation or trial. Plus add all the bureaucratic system. Father of my grandmother were executed as one of  the "public enemies", her mother died from tuberculosis after she spent several months in prison. My grandmother and her sisters grew in the boarding schools. Her elder sister also died from tuberculosis. My granny has only two photos left saved by some relatives. She even doesn't know what prison her father was taken to, and where her mother's grave is. She only remembers from some her relatives that her mother's mother came from Poland and married a Ural Cossack, and her grandparents had a small dairy product factory and car yard in Urals before the revolution. When she was about 14 she left the boarding school.  She and one of her sisters moved from the Urals to Siberia. She has no documents left from her parents. Knowing the life of the "public enemies"' children of  her own experience she even she was did not talk about her parents even after Kruschev's sensational speech denouncing Stalin's regime.

[OlgaH]

Robert has their family genealogy book dated back to 3544 BC. 

[Rubicon]

Ukrainian by country only, though he has Zaporizhian Cossack roots (and that Cossack, a general, married a German).   
 
I actually have more Ukrainian "blood" than he does.

I've never understood what a "Cossack" is other then they excel at military type things.  Can you please explain why a Cossack is not "Ukrainian" or Slav??

[Rubicon]

The Normanist theory is but one theory, based on The Primary Chronicles.  There are anti Normanist historians, and the issue has not been resolved one way or another, despite centuries of dispute.

 The "blue eyes and blonde hair" may just as easily come from the millions of Germans, Scots, and Irish who settled the Russian Empire, leaving surnames such as "Engelhardt", "von Rudinger", "Lermentov", "Gordon", and "Korbut".  Much of this region was also part of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, or the Rzeczpospolita. Further, if you travel throughout Ukraine, you will see many, many olive skinned, green or dark eyed Ukrainians with black hair.  Ukrainian poetry is full of references to "black eyed beauties".  In Central Ukraine, not far from Kyiv, there are two villages, on opposite sides of the river.  The inhabitants of one village are almost all all olive skinned and dark eyed, the inhabitants of the other village,  almost all blonde and blue eyed.

WHAT IS THE NAME OF THIS VILLAGE??  VERY INTERESTING!!
maybe one side of the river was conquered by Turks and the other side was conquered by Vikings...
 
I suspect you are referring to Novgorod.
 
 
A great deal of the Russian Empire's aristocracy was also originally of German ancestry.  Count Tolstoy's family, for example, originally came from a German principality.

And of course Catherine the Great was German as well.

Germans are actually not very often blond haired and blue eyed compared to Scandinavians.  Remember during WWII when Germany was occupying Norway Hitler allowed his men to mate with as many blue eyed blond Norwegian women as possible, as he considered them to be superior.  These mixed German Norwegian children were not popular after the end of the war, as I'm sure The Natural can confirm.

Yes I know the Normanist theory is disputed but there is simply too much evidence, such as the city of Novgorod.  If enough Russians would do DNA testing I think that would also prove that many Russians have Scandinavian roots.  The proof is in the pudding as they say.