She is here! My 'trip' report continues

[Rim]

Hey Todd. why have you got full mana?

I only got one and a bit.

Ste

He has a very good mana regen buff.

[Photo Guy]

[color="navy"][size="3"]The language barrier is a bitch.

When I returned from a 3 day business trip to Vegas, there was a little  yellow post-it note on the kitchen table with the words: [color="black"]'terribly, awfully, dislike, and He intolerant of'[/color].

Naturally, I needed an explanation of this note. She shot into a rare  anger mode and basically accused me of being a terrible person for  leaving her all alone for three days. I countered that by getting on  the computer and using a software translator to tell her that she had  been told in the past that my job requires me to go out of town for as  long as six days.  I told her that life would be easier if she  could accumulate a bunch of friends, for those times when I was  gone.  I told her I missed her when I was gone. I told her that  most of my life I have lived alone, all by myself. She calmed down. By  the end of the day, the bad vibes were gone and we went to a huge video  store and got five movies, mostly comedies that have powerful visual  story-telling elements, like Mouse Hunt. In the evening we were all [color="blue"]cozy on the couch[/color] again.

The problem with the 90 day trial period...is that you have the  question in the back of your mind,  'Are we going to get  married?'  Sure, some guys are lucky enough to decide that  question in just a few weeks over there in the FSU before living  together in the US. My hats off to you guys. I'd characterize the last  month as [color="darkred"]Finding out what she is like in times of severe stress[/color]. Her friends and family miss her, she's disillusioned with me and America, she feels [color="red"]isolated[/color]  by the language barrier and lack of transportation, etc.  I think  things will only improve. There are days when I feel like she hates  me.  Other days are more blissful.  My family generally likes  her and empathizes with her language challenge.  I took off from  work today, just to be able to transport her to her first party in  America. The computer teacher (from Russia) at her ESL school is having  a birthday party. Excellent. She needs to make as many friends as  possible. Hopefully that teacher will be a positive influence. Maybe I  can have a chat with her to find out if she is a positive person, who will guide Larysa in the right direction.
Larysa received her Social Security number/card yesterday. She does not  understand what it is for. I tried to explain it and I told her to  discuss it with her computer teacher. She is beginning to pronounce  words that she sees along the routes we take with my car. She  is slowly using more and more English.  
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[catzenmouse]

Photo,

 Elena is still disgusted with the lack of transportation here and a few other things as well I am sure. Time is running down for you, probably a bit too quickly, and I truly hope you both come together on how you want to procede from here. If you are feeling like you don't know if marriage is the right choice (and I mean deep down with all your heart) then perhaps it would be better to wait a bit. You can refile the K1 at a future date and it will be a lot less stressful and expensive to go this route than it would to get married and find out that it was the wrong thing to do. We're here if you want to talk or if she wants to talk.

Ken

[Son of Clyde]

Photo Guy,

I was where you are at in August.

It could have gotten ugly a few times but I decided when I filed the K-1 that she would be my partner for life. 

What you are posting is normal stuff for the beginning of her transitional period.

I got married less than a month after she arrived. Maybe you need to wait a little longer but don't forget 90 days is not a long time.

[Photo Guy]

[color="navy"][size="3"]I've never met  anyone like her. There is something very special about her. I think we  all fall in love with those special good qualities, and have to  tolerate the ugly qualities. Even some of her 'bad' qualities are  endearing. For example, I've described her as a 'girlie-girl' and this  shows itself as a vulnerability, femininity, intense emotions, and a  number of other great qualities. But, along with that comes qualities  like fear and emotional insecurities, neediness, dependency, and the  clinging vine thing. You can't have some of those positive traits  without the negative traits that go along with them. Last week, in the  middle of the night I heard a loud truck outside. I got out of bed and  looked through the blinds to see a fire truck that had made a wrong  turn. It sat there with its loud diesel engine keeping me awake.   Larysa saw me do this. She interpreted it to mean that I was worried  about bad people outside, like robbers or something. For a few days she  was worried that our neighborhood was a bad unsafe neighborhood, just  because I was looking out the window in the middle of the night. Her  intense emotions have both a negative and postive side. I'm curious to  see how things will be in late April. She is quick to criticize her new  environment, but when I turn her thoughts toward returning to Mariupol,  she becomes uncertain and you can see the mixed emotions on her face.  She's grappling with it.[/size][/color][/b]

[catzenmouse]

Those are things that just about all these ladies go through. It will be good if she can make a connection with someone who has been through it and who can help her understand that she is not alone in these things. Elena is home today (works this evening and tomorrow morning) and will be home tomorrow evening if you can talk her into making a call. I know that it is hard to do that and I still have to force Elena to make even simple calls sometimes. It does get better the more comforatble she is with her new environment and language.

Ken

[Photo Guy]

[color="navy"][size="3"]Thanks Ken. Yeah,  she's reluctant to use the phone.  In Kyiv she was more playful  and relaxed and I'd like to see more of that here.  We [color="blue"]laughed[/color] a lot at last night's movie, so that was [color="blue"]fun[/color].  She is amused when I joke around with store cashiers.  But, my  'eating habits' still bug her a lot. Ha. The wrong food at the wrong  time.  It used to bother her a lot, but now she smiles while she  seriously protests my culinary choices. ;-)[/size][/color][/b]

[LatinSwede]

Eating right and exercise seeems to a reoccuring theme with my Ukrainian.  Thank God for Trader Joe's food market.  I think ms picky fussy (my nickname for her), will be happy with the alternative food choices there.

[DonAz]

Doug,

As I mentioned tto you on several occasions Yulia is more then happy to connect with Larrisa. We only live 10 minutes away. Yulia does not work and will gladly help Larrissa to learn the Ropes here.

If Larrisa is reluctant to use the phone, lets all go out to dinner.

YOU HAVE GOT TO GET HER OUT OF THE HOUSE!

I can not stress that enough. 

Also IMO leaving her alone for days at a times is a serious danger in developing a stronger relationship.

That combined with the negative effects of loneliness and isolation  can only have a toxic effect on the possibility of a future together IMO.

 

I, like all here, wish only the best for you and your lady.

 

DonAz


 

[KenC]

Doug,

I know you have your hands full right now, but maybe a few words of advice from you would be helpful to others.  Just how important do you think English abilities of a RW are now?

KenC

[Photo Guy]

[size="3"][color="navy"]I'm not going to dissuade guys from choosing a  non-English speaker. There is a higher degree of difficulty- no doubt  about it. You can make a long list of difficulties to avoid, right? The  blind woman in a wheelchair could be the right person, if you catch my  drift. Her English is improving. If you bring your fiancee to your  country after being with her for a week in the FSU, there will still be  risks and surprises. Cautious people will minimize their risks to a  higher degree than more adventurous types.

Yesterday she played tennis with her new friends, Natasha and Lana,  while I had to go to work. Today is my turn to cook. I'll keep you  posted about what's cooking.  -doug[/color]  
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[ronin308]

Photo, I don't think Ken was talking about only going after the english speakers.  I think you would agree that her lack of English does make it harder for her to cope and as a result effects the relationship.

Trying to deal with the language barrier plus adjusting to a new country and making the marriage decision is more than I would want to deal with.  It's also why many guys go back to visit their girls a few times before she actually arrives.  Of course in my case I had not much of a choice.  If USCIS worked on FIFO she'd be here with me but unfortunately it hasn't been the case.

I do see some interesting things about your attempts to help her adjust.  First was the trip to Vegas, there's a huge difference between having your SO go away for several days when she is fairly dependant on you compared to once she makes the adjustment.  I'm trying to be aware of this because I'm in a similiar situation.  The big difference is that unless she doesn't want to I can take her with me and ensure she has lots of activities while I'm working. 

Even those who make the decision before their fiance gets here still have to face the adjustment period and the possibility that trying to adjustment will be too great to deal with or she/your expectations don't meet (the "abuse" posting here is an example of this I think).  So even though there is a stronger commitment than say in your case there still is that possibility of not working out.

 

[BC]

All I can say is that the first few months were a breeze compared the the year thereafter..

[KenC]

Photodude,

You wrote:

"I'm not going to dissuade guys from choosing a non-English speaker. There is a higher degree of difficulty- no doubt about it. You can make a long list of difficulties to avoid, right? The blind woman in a wheelchair could be the right person, if you catch my drift. Her English is improving. If you bring your fiancee to your country after being with her for a week in the FSU, there will still be risks and surprises. Cautious people will minimize their risks to a higher degree than more adventurous types. "

You tend to relagate the inability to communicate with a bad habit some woman might have or if she is blond or brunette (which is retarded).  Communication is the basic foundation of any relationship.  When you don't have a good foundation, you never know if the relationship is real or imagined.  You sure as hell have no clue if it is going to stand up over time.

"Her English is improving"?  As you told it, she couldn't say two words when you met her and blew off her English lessons that I am sure you paid for.  Does that mean she can say "hello" and "goodbye" now?  It isn't an "adventurous type" that gets engaged to a woman he cannot communicate with, it is a fool.  I guess your great abilities of perception failed you a bit, ol great Carnack!

KenC

[Photo Guy]

[color="navy"][size="3"]After a post like  that, it is easy to fall back to a defensive position.  From the  lessons I've seen on paper (her notes from class), I'd say her teacher  in Mariupol wasn't that great.  Combine that with a lack of  confidence in her own ability to learn another language, and the lack  of people to practice with, and the results are less than  stellar.  Anyway, her English is definitely improving in just the  two weeks she has been attending ESL classes. And today I came home to  find yellow post-it notes on the kitchen cabinets. The notes remind her  of some basic English words and expressions. I noticed them and smiled  as I realized she was working at learning the language. She saw my  smile and assumed I was laughing at her. I set her straight about that.  Then we sat down to a nice dinner she had prepared.  We talked  about various things, my job, movies, by using broken English,  gestures, and translation software.  It's an interesting  adventure...[/size][/color][/b]

[catzenmouse]

PG,

 It is a really big challenge for a woman that does not have a  high confidence level. But it does get better. It will take a LOT of  encouragement and support from you so just keep at it and keep talking  to her about how proud you are of her and how great the improvement it.  Elena laughed at my house when she arrived as I had little stickers all  over the house with the Russian words for things stuck everywhere. It  does work and helps to familiarize her with the objects. Do it gently  but correct her when she uses the wrong word or says it the wrong way.  It will pay off big in the long run.

Ken

[Yakboy]

Doug...

You really should get in touch with DonAZ.

He and his wife are two really special people... They live right near you, and are willing to help! Yulia is a sweetie and loves meeting new people.

I'm sure you know how much they could help ease Larissa's transition to the west. It just depends on whether or not you want to be able to help her as much as you can.

You don't have to do it now... Just maybe later when it seems right.

I wish they lived in MY city

All the best

Ron

 

[KenC]

Photodude,

Why do you avoid contact with people trying to help you with Larysa?  Catzenmouse has offered for his wife to speak with her and you blew him off.  Donaz is around the corner from you and has offered to help in any way and is ignored by you.  Like a lot of your actions or inactions, it just doesn't make sense.  I have always maintained that it is the social isolation that is the most difficult to over come and yet you rebuff those willing to give you a helping hand with this problem.  You leaving her alone  for three days in her condition (no friends to contact and no ability to communicate) is borderline abusive.  Damn, I even have someone come play and walk my dog when we're gone so he doesn't get too lonely!  And yet you won't even make contact with people willing to help the woman (you claim to love)?  Are you such a control freak that you are threatened by these people?

KenC

[andrewfi]

If you have the ability to enable your new girlfriend to communicate and socialise with other people, it is your responsibility to do so!

Having lived in a countries where I did not speak the language, or read the script and having gone there under my own steam, I know at first hand the stress involved. If you are seeking to make this poor woman dependent upon you then yuwil, in the end lose out.

Make those phone calls!

[Photo Guy]

[color="navy"][size="3"]To all  of you who have offered friendship and phone calls, I apologize for  Larysa's unwillingness to communicate with you or your wives. I've  encouraged her.  I have not ignored any of these friendly offers  of support.  It is blatantly untrue to say that I have 'blown off'  people. I'll continue to encourage her to expand her circle of  friends.  I'm sure the time will come soon when she does begin  returning calls, etc.  Have patience. Thanks!  -doug
PS. I am a firm believer in having as many friends as possible. I also  do want the best possible situation for her and that includes many  friendships, language skills, prosperity, emotional security, etc.  ..Got it?
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[wasson65]

Photoguy,

.... Edited because I just saw your post.

[Photo Guy]

[color="navy"][size="3"]Edited, because I just saw that you saw what I wrote...
Later....

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[Ste]

This morning, Nadia and I spoke nothing but Russian, her English being A1, my russian tested as intermediate but without constant use it's much less than that really.

So same situation as Dougs, roles reversed.

I tell you it's freaking impossible! I have a serious headache now.

Frustration at not being understood, frustration at not being able to make urself understood.

Annoyance at scraping ur memory for the right word and getting the wrong one and causing confusion and more frustration.

Voices become raised and tempers become fraught.

Misunderstandings causing actual logistical problems! I didn't know u meant wash the pans!

Honestly you'd need six months just to be able to speak without pointing and shouting.

Ste

[KenC]

[user=134]Photo Guy[/user] wrote:

To all of you who have offered friendship and phone calls, I apologize for Larysa's unwillingness to communicate with you or your wives. I've encouraged her.  I have not ignored any of these friendly offers of support.  It is blatantly untrue to say that I have 'blown off' people. I'll continue to encourage her to expand her circle of friends.  I'm sure the time will come soon when she does begin returning calls, etc.  Have patience. Thanks!  -doug
PS. I am a firm believer in having as many friends as possible. I also do want the best possible situation for her and that includes many friendships, language skills, prosperity, emotional security, etc. ..Got it?

Photo,

No, I don't "get it."  Be a man for Christ's sake and take her by the hand and force her to interact with others.  A while back you expounded on how you and Larysa had such a great religious bond going.  Well, it is Sunday morning, how about dragging her out to church?  You have talked about it in the past, when are you actually going to do it?  You know that 90 days goes by in a hurry.  You do not have the luxury of an endless amount of time.

KenC

[andrewfi]

Tell me about the headaches!

My first time living in a new country was in my early teens, in France. At the end of each day I had a terrible mood and often headaches, I was exhausted each day! Many years later I had the same kind of experience in China. It was the language. We do not realise just how stressful and tiring language acquisition can be and, IMHO, it is more stressful when those around one do not realise, often through lack of personal experience, the realities. Going to the FSU, kept in a bubble and with no imperative to acquire language, we do not realise the enormity of the task facing our interlocutors. But just think, how would life have been if, during your first week in Ukraine, you had been left alone for three days, without money, without friends, without a phone (or the language skills required to use one!). How would you have felt? Now imagine your new girlfriend, marooned in a strange country, without the firm knowledge that within a week she will be back in her shop, painting fingernails? Living with a stranger and left alone for the majority of each day.

I can understand Larysa's reticence to spaek with people introduced by you. She would see it as just more stress, another way to fail.

Perhaps it behoves a certain man to step up to the plate and manage the situation. Take a lead, introduce new people into his social circle, don't rely upon the new girlfriend to take the lead in this stuff, or even to agree! Have visitors, go to visit new people who have offered their help to you.