If you asked me: "what's not to like in Ukraine?"

[Rubicon]

They are not all olive skinned.  Many with light complexion, but beauties all the same and warm/open personalities.

Best time is when there is the festival in Jerez that lasts a couple weeks and is a lot of fun.  Summer also great but will be hot, beach the morning, sleep all day and get out around 10 till wee hours of the morning.  Great food especially seafood.  Plenty to do and see.

Plan ahead, travel light and you can get some really cheap flights with ryanair to many places in EU.  http://www.ryanair.com/en/cheap-flight-destinations

Enjoy.

Thanks BC.

I've been to Spain but it was about 20 years ago.  We were in Loret de Mar and spent a couple of days in Barcelona.  I met a very beautiful girl there who was half Spanish and half Libyan.  I lost contact with her and always wondered what happened to her.  Anyways I absolutely love seafood and Spanish food as well.  My cousin spent time in Madrid practicing her Spanish to perfection and is now a college professor of Spanish.  I would consider to convert to Catholicism for only a very rare bird but would hope I might convince her to convert to being Protestant.  As you probably know Spain has more high speed trains than I believe any other nation and I see that as a great way to get around.  I might post a photo of me from 20 years ago in Spain if you guys/gals want me to.

[Rubicon]

It's related in that such things occur everywhere and with a similar apathetic attitude of "don't get involved". 


Rubicon, I don't recall ever seeing anyone post here who has been more, seemingly anyway, emotionally all over the place than you have been.  Now you seem to be swearing off Ukrainian women because of their government and corruption.  That's certainly up to you as FSUW really are not for everyone but it seems a strange non sequituresque conclusion. 


Considering Spain, would you be willing to convert to Catholicism to be with a good woman?  Generalization as usual, but there's an excellent chance that "good women" you find there will be Catholic.  Test the waters and see, but it's something to keep in mind from the outset.


 

Daveman,

It's not just because of their government and corruption, but because of the mindset of many of the women as well which seems to be 180 degrees off of the American mindset.  First you've got to wade through 10 million scammers, then you've got to worry if she is marrying you because she really loves you or if she just wants a convenient mule to get to the west.  Then there is the fact that the mindset is very different to begin with and perhaps a polite way to say it would be that it's not a mindset which is congruent with the values and manners which I was raised with.  I did say before that if I were to ever marry a Ukrainian or Russian lady I would insist on living with her for a minimum of at least three consecutive months, possibly more.

So I can't tell you right this moment whether or not I have sworn off Russian women 100%, but I can tell you it's not looking good.  You may find it strange but that video was the straw that broke the camels back for me.

[BC]

Rubicon,

How do you reconcile your current thoughts with your visit(s?) to UA and RU?

I take it you don't hang around with the crowd or places the folks in this video frequent so why make a big deal about it now?

Did you experience any negatives on your trip other than a continued ' Still looking' status?

[Rubicon]

Rubicon,

How do you reconcile your current thoughts with your visit(s?) to UA and RU?

I take it you don't hang around with the crowd or places the folks in this video frequent so why make a big deal about it now?

Did you experience any negatives on your trip other than a continued ' Still looking' status?

See my above thoughts to Daveman.  I've already checked out flights to Seville and hotels in Jerez.  I could easily get a room with a pensioner or a family for a bargain after staying in a hotel for a week, as I can get by in Spanish quite well.
After that I could get a small flat once I met a lady.

Flights to Seville are a bargain compared to flights to Kharkov or Kiev; actually about $500 to $800 less.  Hotels are less.  I can rent a car if I wish to do so with no fear of a shakedown from a dishonest cop.  Service is better--it's warm and friendly.  People are open and friendly as you know.

German girls love to go to Spain, as well as a few Russian ladies, so there is the odd chance that I might meet one of those.  Quite frankly I would prefer the former as I speak German well enough and lived there extensively.  I'm not wasting any more of my precious time on people with the wrong sort of attitude and core values for me. 

Latvia and Estonia are still a very big possibility; but I would be looking specifically for ethnic Latvian's and ethnic Estonian's.  They went to hell and back dealing with first Stalin then the Nazi's and then Stalin again.  They appreciate what they have now and they're NEVER going back.

Hope that answers your question.  It's a beautiful day here and I've got to get out in the sun and get in a workout.

Best Regards!!

[Jumper]

Rubicon,
I would second Ed's opinion that the south of Spain, with you knowing some Spanish, would be likely better than Latvia or Lithuania.
 
I don't get the worry about 10 thousand scammers,
for one its simply not accurate..
takes one yuri to post 10 photos i suppose, but the number of actual scammers seems small.
 Scammers are incredibly easy to avoid, its not even a second thought.
 
 
If interested in Lithuianian or baltic states women,
you might want to look more closley locally?
 
As example a nice little Luthuinian restaurant in the south chicago suburbs has a singles meeting night once per month... where they simply lay out dishes in a traditional family style, on big tables, and people switch seats,and tables   every so many minutes to meet.Layed back small gathering..
 There are many things of this nature that guys often don't check into or know about.
(a lithuanian woman/friend told me about this particular one trying to fix me up)
 As for the Baltic areas , I  just think you would have far better luck looking into  latvian, luthuanian, estionian single women living or working here.
Every area is different, but in my area of the midwest, there are a lot of single baltic women.(as well as polish, czech,hungarian, ukrainian and russian)
 
As far as your *different mentality* comments, i dont find that truly accurate,
yet if some of it rings culturally true,  then generally baltic would be similar (but perhaps a little colder or more *closed*)
The UK stag parties are notorious and jaded public perception..

[Kuna]

Hi Kuna,

If I go to Latvia and Estonia I won't be hanging out in the major cities for more then a day or two and just to do the tourist thing there.  I've heard of the British stag parties and that the locals are sick of that situation.  One word out of my mouth and they'll know I am a Yank and I look more German anyways.  No, my plan would be to take a three month extended holiday and to visit as many small cities as possible and to attend a few evangelical Lutheran church services.  I've never been really into big city party type girls anyways and prefer women with more traditional small town/country values.  Down to earth types.  We like to say the salt of the earth.  The kind of woman who would love you truly with her whole heart and soul and follow you to the ends of the earth if you asked her to.

You don't understand... they are not what you are imagining them to be...  Ask yourself this one question - would you be prepared to move to Latvia PERMANENTLY?

This would be the most likely outcome IMO if you did happen to meet someone there...

Daveman,

It's not just because of their government and corruption, but because of the mindset of many of the women as well which seems to be 180 degrees off of the American mindset.  First you've got to wade through 10 million scammers, then you've got to worry if she is marrying you because she really loves you or if she just wants a convenient mule to get to the west.  Then there is the fact that the mindset is very different to begin with and perhaps a polite way to say it would be that it's not a mindset which is congruent with the values and manners which I was raised with.  I did say before that if I were to ever marry a Ukrainian or Russian lady I would insist on living with her for a minimum of at least three consecutive months, possibly more.

So I can't tell you right this moment whether or not I have sworn off Russian women 100%, but I can tell you it's not looking good.  You may find it strange but that video was the straw that broke the camels back for me.

You're confused...  are you sure you haven't been drinking?

So you want to look overseas for a wife but you are not sure about UW because their mindset is 180 degrees off the American mindset???

You want someone with the values YOU were raised with?

Might I suggest two things?

1. Just search at home if you're looking for something familiar to you, and;

2.  Consider a family member as they are most likely to have the same values you were raised with!   

[Jumper]

well if you speak German then why isnt that and Austria a first consideration?
 amazing women there..beautiful country, a lot of things to do and see..
 
 
 
I still think you're a bit off on the average Ukrainians mentality..  but we all have our perceptions.
 
 

[Rubicon]

You don't understand... they are not what you are imagining them to be...  Ask yourself this one question - would you be prepared to move to Latvia PERMANENTLY?

This would be the most likely outcome IMO if you did happen to meet someone there...


You're confused...  are you sure you haven't been drinking?

So you want to look overseas for a wife but you are not sure about UW because their mindset is 180 degrees off the American mindset???

You want someone with the values YOU were raised with?

Might I suggest two things?

1. Just search at home if you're looking for something familiar to you, and;

2.  Consider a family member as they are most likely to have the same values you were raised with!   

Kuna,

You're way off base but I am not surprised.  Yes I would definitely consider living in a small town in Latvia or Estonia.  As to values it is MY belief that their values are more honest and sincere then those of RW/UW.  You have your belief's which we've already concluded are different then mine.  You think the orthodox church is the way to go, I do not.  I am not going into details here and I cannot PM as that is currently off limits to me.

If you don't want to post something productive and positive do me a favor and don't post anything at all.  You were a powerlifter before, right??  Sometimes you come across as a big meathead.  Good luck with that.

[Rubicon]

well if you speak German then why isnt that and Austria a first consideration?
 amazing women there..beautiful country, a lot of things to do and see..
 
 
 
I still think you're a bit off on the average Ukrainians mentality..  but we all have our perceptions.

I do like Vienna Austria, but quite frankly I like the beauty and charm of an olive skinned somewhat exotic Spanish girl much better.  Gotta go for now, adieu...

[Jumper]

Vienna is perhaps my favorite city..
 
(I'm not a fan of cities in general, but it is a favorite)
 
Prost!

[Kuna]

Kuna,

You're way off base but I am not surprised.  Yes I would definitely consider living in a small town in Latvia or Estonia.  As to values it is MY belief that their values are more honest and sincere then those of RW/UW.  You have your belief's which we've already concluded are different then mine.  You think the orthodox church is the way to go, I do not.  I am not going into details here and I cannot PM as that is currently off limits to me.

If you don't want to post something productive and positive do me a favor and don't post anything at all.  You were a powerlifter before, right??  Sometimes you come across as a big meathead.  Good luck with that.

1. It was productive - YOU JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND! 

2. It has nothing to do with Orthodoxy, YOU JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND! 

3. If being "productive" was the golden rule for posting in RWD,  you'd have barely completed a word thus far.

4. I am a big meathead - but was never nearly as confused, arrogant and misinformed as you.

I just don't get why you can't see the simple truths and realities.  You appear to be one of these people that lurches from dumb decision to dumb decision and you've never worked out the problem is you.

I'm not TRYING to give you a hard time... I'm just hoping you'll wake up to yourself.

Now,  was that productive?  Indeed it was - but I still don't expect you to understand.

When you get back from Latvia be sure to let us know how you go won't you. 

 

[Anotherkiwi]

Vienna is perhaps my favorite city..
 
(I'm not a fan of cities in general, but it is a favorite)
 
Prost!

    It was mine - until I visited St Petersburg for the first time!

[Patagonie]

There is a very useful tool in Lucky Lovers :
You can use the search query, by country, detailled by city.
This is very interesting, i think you will have a good idea of where are the girls who are searching.
I'm not saying the is the truth, just a tool.

[Boethius]

I suspect the "morals" of Latvians, Lithuanians, and Estonians are not much different from the "morals" of Russians and Ukrainians.  They were all part of the same "culture", which was a Soviet culture.   All FSU nationalities suffered under Stalin.  The mindset is not that different, they certainly expected the EU to support them.
 
Have you tried meeting AW through church groups/GOP activism, etc.?  You 'd be more likely to find a woman with your "mindset" there. 
 
 
 

[Misha]

As to values it is MY belief that their values are more honest and sincere then those of RW/UW.

Based on what exactly?!? What experience do you have with either RW/UW or Latvian women?

[ECOCKS]

Dave:

Long day and I'm too tired to even scroll back and quote but you asked was I going to send my wife home because of the climate of corruption she was raised in.

Of course not, one of her traits is her vehemence (not too different from the OP) concerning corruption, inefficiency and criminality rampant in her home country. She loves Ukraine but understands she cannot effect a change. As Mies, B, Blues Fairy, Olga and several others so often prove, many see the reality of their country but just accept that it is "their way" (their in the exclusive of themselves sense). Still, they are products of their culture and environment so occasional reflex actions kick in as certain behaviors.

My wife thinks I'm crazy for getting involved in that weck as a witness but the actions of the Idaho State Police served well as a lesson about the American environment for her. She also is certain I'll die someday from all the fans I had installed in our house but concedes I am just exceptionally disease-resistant to have survived this long. So far, we haven't found a "send 'em back" issue.

[Jumper]

She also is certain I'll die someday from all the fans I had installed in our house but concedes I am just exceptionally disease-resistant to have survived this long

 
 
I remember such sentiments..
 and often glibly quipped
"well, it hasn't killed me to death yet.."
 
normally followed by that look, and
 "well, this could be the day?"
 

[ML]

The kind of woman who would love you truly with her whole heart and soul and follow you to the ends of the earth if you asked her to.

And I am sure there is a quick way to determine this with respect to each woman you might meet.

[The Natural]

Thanks BC.
I would consider to convert to Catholicism for only a very rare bird but would hope I might convince her to convert to being Protestant. 

That is very sursprising coming from you Rubicon. I have the impression you have pretty strong opinions on religion and as you are a protestant, even considering to convert to Catholicism seems very strange to me. Personally, being a Protestant myself, I would never even consider getting romantically involved, much less convert, with a practising catholic girl. It would be on the same level as converting to, say, Islam or Judaism. Absolutely out of the question. For me.
 
You're talking now about Spain. You mentioned your fear of finding a FSU girl that might choose you simply as a mule to go to the west. Well, the economic situation is deteriorating fast in Southern Europe also. The debt of Greece and Portugal is now officially considered junk. Soon to follow wil be Spain and Italy. In the not too distant future you might have the same question of a Spanish girl, if you meet one. Prices are rising and salaries are cut. I have recently had a visit by two Spanish couples, on different occasions as couch-surfers, where both of the girls are teachers and told about the pay-cuts they had to take as a result of the austerity measures.
 
But then again, the ECB might bail them out again, prolong the problem a bit, and the whole EU project will collapse and the Euro with it and drag the US with them into a whole new reality.
 
We live in interesting times, that's for sure 

[BC]

See my above thoughts to Daveman.

Actually it was your thoughts to Daveman that prompted my question..  Was just a bit curious as to what other direct experiences you had when visiting.

[Rubicon]

That is very surprising coming from you Rubicon. I have the impression you have pretty strong opinions on religion and as you are a protestant, even considering to convert to Catholicism seems very strange to me. Personally, being a Protestant myself, I would never even consider getting romantically involved, much less convert, with a practising catholic girl. It would be on the same level as converting to, say, Islam or Judaism. Absolutely out of the question. For me.
 
You're talking now about Spain. You mentioned your fear of finding a FSU girl that might choose you simply as a mule to go to the west. Well, the economic situation is deteriorating fast in Southern Europe also. The debt of Greece and Portugal is now officially considered junk. Soon to follow will be Spain and Italy. In the not too distant future you might have the same question of a Spanish girl, if you meet one. Prices are rising and salaries are cut. I have recently had a visit by two Spanish couples, on different occasions as couch-surfers, where both of the girls are teachers and told about the pay-cuts they had to take as a result of the austerity measures.
 
But then again, the ECB might bail them out again, prolong the problem a bit, and the whole EU project will collapse and the Euro with it and drag the US with them into a whole new reality.
 
We live in interesting times, that's for sure 

Hi Natural,

It's great to hear from you.  You are a true friend, regardless of my past ornery behavior about politics.  I don't like the past of the Catholic church anymore then you probably do (severe abuse of power and authority; ie inquisition, worship of relics instead of worship of a living God, interested mostly in accumulating money, property and power, murder of William Tyndale as a heretic), however they are Christian, so I simply cannot agree with you that it is tantamount to converting to Judeaism or Islam.  As a teenager studying theology and the Bible, we were taught that there were two main branches of Christianity--Catholicism and Protestantism.  Now I guess you could say there are three main branches since we also have Orthodox Christians.

Of course the beauty of the Reformation is that we as lay people were encouraged and allowed to study the Bible on our own and to communicate directly to a living God, as opposed to needing a Priest to explain things to us which was in reality to an effort to obfuscate things as much as possible in order to maintain their power.  Hardly a way that a higher power wishes to communicate to people who seek his presence. 

Anyway, as I said it would take a rare bird, but it would be seriously considered as I believe children should be raised under a unified roof.  And the fact is that the Catholic church has apologized for much of their past, and made improvements.  Ultimately it's the people and their character who make a church a spiritual place, not the church which makes people into spiritual beings.

If you intend to remain Protestant, what would you do if your lady insisted that you became Orthodox??  I think I know the answer to that!!

 "Tyndale was the first to translate considerable parts of the Bible into English, for a public, lay readership. While a number of partial and complete translations had been made from the seventh century onward, particularly during the 14th century, Tyndale's was the first English translation to draw directly from Hebrew and Greek texts, and the first to take advantage of the new medium of print, which allowed for its wide distribution. This was taken to be a direct challenge to the hegemony of both the Roman Catholic Church and the English church and state. Tyndale also wrote, in 1530, The Practyse of Prelates, opposing Henry VIII's divorce on the grounds that it contravened scriptural law. In 1535, Tyndale was arrested by church authorities and jailed in the castle of Vilvoorde outside Brussels for over a year. He was tried for heresy, strangled and burnt at the stake in 1536. The Tyndale Bible, as it was known, continued to play a key role in spreading Reformation ideas across Europe. The fifty-four independent scholars who created the King James Version of the ... "

In regards to Spain I would probably stay there and live with my lady if that's where I end up.  I am not leaving any leaf unturned in the search for the woman made especially for me.   

[BC]

Rubicon,

You seem quite verbose in your beliefs and that is quite ok in appropriate places.  I for one don't need any lessons.

Aside from that I say go for it.  You are making a list of your desired characteristics in a woman, but I don't really believe in requiring change of religion to support a successful relationship. Regardless of religious 'box' or label the primary 'force' is within the relationship with any beliefs (or none) complementing it - and not beliefs being the basis of a relationship.  Just MHO.

I've been enchanted and had relationships with a number of ladies with widely differing beliefs - religion was never a go or no go factor.

I am a bit puzzled with you selection of prospective 'hunting grounds' - looking for 'something' in places where that quality is probably rare or at least somewhat limited.  Seems somewhat missionary...

[Rubicon]

I suspect the "morals" of Latvians, Lithuanians, and Estonians is not much different from the "morals" of Russians and Ukrainians.  They were all part of the same "culture", which was a Soviet culture.   All FSU nationalities suffered under Stalin.  The mindset is not that different, they certainly expected the EU to support them.
 
Have you tried meeting AW through church groups/GOP activism, etc.?  You 'd be more likely to find a woman with your "mindset" there.

We have a difference of opinion in two large regards.  Firstly the ethnic Latvian people and the ethnic Estonian people resisted efforts to force them in "Russification" for decades.  They kept fighting and giving their lives against the Soviets long after WWII.  Latvia in particular has a large Lutheran population and was for hundreds of years settled by German merchants.

The morals of Protestants are much better in that they are much more inclined to believe in the value of the inner person and character, instead of external facade and job "position" which is the only thing that seems to matter to Russians.  Communism itself is an atheistic society which only believed in the material world.  It's very hard for me to believe that suddenly in one nano second peoples character really changed for the better.  It's currently popular to say you're Christian in Ukraine or Russia, but to me that's all it is; a fad.  It's more a practice of superstitions than a spiritual practice, which is highly evident in the character and morals of Ukraine and Russia (more specifically the lack thereof).  To a many Russian's a "winner" is anyone who makes big money, regardless if they are a mafia hitman, drug dealer, arms dealer, corrupt judge on the take, corrupt politician on the take, etc.

[mies]

We have a difference of opinion in two large regards.  Firstly the ethnic Latvian people and the ethnic Estonian people resisted efforts to force them in "Russification" for decades.  They kept fighting and giving their lives against the Soviets long after WWII.  Latvia in particular has a large Lutheran population and was for hundreds of years settled by German merchants.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_Insurgent_Army
Ukraine had guerilla units until mid-1950s, who were killing young russian teachers and russian-speaking engineers who were sent to western villages by the Communist party.   

I come from Western Ukraine. In my area local people resisted russification even in late 70s - early 80s. In my town there were only 2 russian schools out of 28 total, the rest 26 were ukrainian. One of the first things that happened when they felt that USSR is going to collapse was introducing friendly welcome phrase for anyone speaking russian: "hang a russian on the branch" - "москаляку на гілляку." I was verbally attacked in public places by mean old and young people when they overheard me saying something in Russian, once by passengers in a bus when I said the russian word for "ticket" instead of ukrainian one. There were also instances of russian-speaking people physically attacked on streets of the town. Second thing that happened was that russian classes were cancelled in Ukrainian schools. Kids were learning english and german, but stopped learning russian. If this is not the "resistance to russification," - i don't know what is.
I agree with you: RW and UW have very different values than you do. Also, in Ukraine you will find few protestants but you will find quite many catholics and greek catholics.  But in terms of differences:  any other people from foreign countries are different. I do not think you will find same values as yours among Spanish people. If you want someone very similar to you - look in your hometown where you grew up, or lived, someone who has same experiences and influences as you had through your life. 

[Boethius]

We have a difference of opinion in two large regards.  Firstly the ethnic Latvian people and the ethnic Estonian people resisted efforts to force them in "Russification" for decades.  They kept fighting and giving their lives against the Soviets long after WWII.  Latvia in particular has a large Lutheran population and was for hundreds of years settled by German merchants.

You don't have to tell me the history.  Some of my husband's family is from both of those countries, where towns are named after them.  However, the Germans in that region did, in fact, speak Russian.   Have you ever heard of Alexei von Rudiger?  (Note - His first ancestors were Swedes, but they intermarried with Germans.)  Furthermore, Estonia has more atheists than believers.
 
 

The morals of Protestants are much better in that they are much more inclined to believe in the value of the inner person and character, instead of external facade and job "position" which is the only thing that seems to matter to Russians.

 
 
You mean like these Protestants?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_evangelist_scandals


That is an extremely broad statement, an over generalization, and inaccurate. You are also mixing two different things; an atheistic culture created by communism, and religious belief.  Most Estonians and Latvians of today are products of the very same society as the Slavs that surround them.  Latvia is known, incidentally, as the EU's favourite sex tourist destination.
 
What makes you think an Orthodox believer does not value the inner person and character?  And, if this is what you truly value, why are you looking for an olive skinned beauty?  Why not settle for a fat, but inwardly beautiful AW?

As a Christian, you surely are aware that you cannot know what is in a person's heart.  Only God can know that.
 
 

Communism itself is an atheistic society which only believed in the material world.  It's very hard for me to believe that suddenly in one nano second peoples character really changed for the better.  It's currently popular to say you're Christian in Ukraine or Russia, but to me that's all it is; a fad.

 
To some it is, but to many, it is not.  My husband was a practicing Christian during Soviet times.  I can think of a whole lot of people who were practicing Christians then as well.
 

It's more a practice of superstitions than a spiritual practice, which is highly evident in the character and morals of Ukraine and Russia (more specifically the lack thereof).  To a many Russian's a "winner" is anyone who makes big money, regardless if they are a mafia hitman, drug dealer, arms dealer, corrupt judge on the take, corrupt politician on the take, etc.
 

You can find the same beliefs in most countries, including the U.S.  The difference is that in Russia and Ukraine, there is no established rule of law, so the lawlessness means that, as an ordinary citizen, your options are far more restricted.