Natural Crimea

[The Natural]

Contrary to popular belief, owning an old house means working many hours to make improvements and I did a lot of that during the autumn as I waited for my girl to come. But when she came, my priorities changed of course, then Christmas came and I got out of it and a little lazy.

A few days into the new year she asked me if we should resume work and it was very nice to get this kick-start to continue, so we started by painting inside some cabinets in the outer hall. It was nice for her also having something to do while I were at work. I had been working on fixing up the hall and a bedroom on the third floor before she came, so we went straight ahead on that job once the paint job was finished. She was very eager to learn and helped me out tremendously. She quickly learned how I wanted it done and did countless hours of removing old wallpaper, sparkling, putting up new wallpaper, painting and so on. I didn’t ask her to work or expected her to put so much time and effort into it, but she really wanted to work and asked me what more she could do once she had finished something. She was happy to contribute and also to learn from it.

We finished the bedroom and hall a few weeks before she was to go back to Kerch. But she wanted to do more, so she went ahead and removed old wallpaper in another bedroom I plan to fix later on.
It was very nice with the two of us working together. It brought us closer and we had great fun.

Next time I will write what plans we have for the months to come……

[Gator]

Your training program is excellent. 
 
I enjoy working with RW.  They are not lazy and want to do a near perfect job.
 

[The Natural]

Well, so here I am, alone in the house and missing her very much. She miss me equally as much and we continue to stay in touch on Skype every day. Skype just has to be one of the best inventions ever, especially in a situation like ours.

For a few years after my divorce I was happy and content with the quiet life here in the village, working and improving the big old house. I didn’t go on vacations for years or think much about finding new love. But after a while I came to the realization that life is short and no matter how hard I worked on getting things better materially, nothing can be as important as to share my life with that someone special. If I could find her!  And I am very certain I found her and I pray to God this is it! For the rest of our lives.

So where are we now? It’s now 5 weeks since she went back home and we originally thought of getting her a visa to come back in the summer. But we plan to get married and then she would have to go back anyway and apply for a residence permit from Ukraine. So we agreed to go the route of applying for a fiancée visa which means she can come here and marry within 6 months and not have to go back once it’s approved. But that also means it will take longer as the application is not done in the embassy in Kiev but here in Norway. Once all the necessary documents are handed in to a company in Ukraine associated with the embassy, it will be sent to Oslo and the processing may take up to 4 months.

So we are now in the process of obtaining the required documents for both her and me. She has made calls to find out how she can get all the documents she needs, which is a bit more tricky than on my end. It’s not just to make a phone call and get info on where to go as it is here. But she is clever and resourceful, so we don’t expect any problems with that. I have obtained two documents, one from the People’s register and one for my divorce details. I went to the police station and got them to put a Notarius Publicus stamp on them and the copies and have sent it off to another place for Apostille. Other requirements from me are documents like: work contract, tax paper for 2011, copies of the last three salary details, confirmation that I have not received social service money the past year, copy of the deed of my house. Then the both of us have to write down in our own words how we met, our plans for the future and so on, as detailed as possible.

It looks good at the moment, let’s just hope we get it all right and that there’s no misunderstandings or mistakes which could delay the process. Fortunately we have nothing to hide and even though all the documents required might seem too much, I understand why it is like that. When my girl was in the process of applying for a tourist visa last year, she somehow got in touch with a company that advised her to say she had a job even though she did not, in an attempt to make it more probable she would get a visa. In that case I was firm with her and told her to not lie in the application because a) it is against my convictions to lie and b) a “small” lie can catch up with you and be the cause of many problems later on.
a) is of course the most important reason.

So what we did instead was that when I wrote my letter of invitation I wrote that she worked in Moscow when we got to know each other and that she went home to Crimea for the summer holiday and we met in person there. Instead of her getting a low-paid job in her home town of Kerch, we decided that I support her financially because our goal was for her to come to my place and see if she likes it here and if we are right for each other. If she before that would have a job, it would be impossible for her to come and stay with me for 10 weeks. Despite all the stories my girl had read about and heard about others who had been denied a tourist visa, she got it with absolutely no problem. And the best of it all is that we did it without tweaking the truth one little bit. We did it all by the book and truthfully and believe this will also be an advantage in the future.

So that’s where we are at the moment. I don’t take anything for granted but so far it’s looking good. But back to the beginning here, we miss each other so much. So I’m going to her this summer. It’s mostly a practical issue of getting my holiday money for it and besides visiting my girl, I want to have a comfortable vacation with her and some hot and sunny days which I really need after yet another long, dark winter. I was first thinking of the end of June but I don’t know if I can wait that long. If I can get an advance of my 12% money of last year’s salary I might go there in May for 2-3 weeks. Getting time off from work at this time of year is no problem. Most collegues want their holidays to be in July/august.

We have started to discuss our holiday time together, my baby doll (FP’s words, hehe) and me. I have a friend which incidentally is married to a Russian girl and they have a summer house in northern Cyprus which he said we can use. But when we checked it out it proves that she as a Ukrainian citizen needs a visa, so she felt that was a dead end. Point is that I also want to have a bit of luxury together with her and even though it was very nice last summer in Koktebel and the apartment was OK, I wasn’t too thrilled by sitting on the veranda looking directly into some grape plants and sharing the kitchen with a Russian family. My girl is laid-back as am I and what we’re looking for is an apartment which is of basic western style standard and with an OK size veranda with a view. I don’t care about nature as I have plenty of that at home. Walking distance to the beach would be good of course, or to the city. My girl suggested she check out fine places in Sevastopol. I haven’t been there, so that could be nice. If anyone here would make a few suggestions in the Crimean area I would appreciate it greatly. So far I’ve been to Kerch, Simferopol and Koktebel. Is it too much to expect to find a holiday solution that match the normal standard of say, tourist destinations in Spain, Greece, Cyprus etc. in Ukraine? I mean, that would be too bad. Build it and they will come. Hire quality staff and some who knows English and rake in some Euros… or what? Anyhow, most important is to meet HER again 

[Chicagoguy]

Everything sounds good !     What we did was leave Russia and go to the beaches South of Antalya in Turkey. No visa'a necessary and in neutral territory. Plus some nice historic side trips if you want. Stay in 4 star hotels - not too expensive. Not many Americans and probably few Norweigans 

[The Natural]

A little strange because northern Cyprus is Turkish and they require visa for both Russian and Ukrainian citizens. Antalya sounds like a popular destination for Norwegians but maybe they kept quiet back the, hehe.

[Faux Pas]

Seems all is well Roy, congratulations! Good things do indeed happen to good people. I could be wrong but, I don't think the visa for Turkey is difficult. It is a popular vacation destination for Russians and Ukrainians. You should look into that.

Already, with your lady's travel history to Norway it shouldn't be difficult to obtain a Schengen.

[ML]

Reidar, I would highly recommend that you take your gal down to Turkey.
The southern coast has many nice places, and the Antalya region is one of them.  Many, many things to see and do in the Antalya area.
I have been there several times.
Have rented apartments, stayed in ApartHotels, and stayed at 4-5 star resorts.
Great people, great service, great food, good prices.

[Patagonie]

All is "natural"  in this story. All my congratulations my buddy, you (both) perform well. If you are in Ukraine in may there is a lot of chances that i would be too....

[Ade]

So where are we now? It’s now 5 weeks since she went back home and we originally thought of getting her a visa to come back in the summer. But we plan to get married and then she would have to go back anyway and apply for a residence permit from Ukraine. So we agreed to go the route of applying for a fiancée visa which means she can come here and marry within 6 months and not have to go back once it’s approved. But that also means it will take longer as the application is not done in the embassy in Kiev but here in Norway. Once all the necessary documents are handed in to a company in Ukraine associated with the embassy, it will be sent to Oslo and the processing may take up to 4 months.

Congrats dude.

FWIW, you may be able to get married in Norway while she's here on a tourist visa and then apply for family reunion while she stays here. This is what my wife and I did and it was suggested by the UDI - we could have done the fiancée route or an EU-citizen route but the family reunion while she was here was the best in the long run. The only issue is that it can take some time to get the reunion approved and she won't be able to leave Norway while that is going on - at least not unless her tourist visa is still valid. Ours took only 6 weeks though I think. There used to be at least one caveat though; she needs to be able to prove she has a higher education, a degree was the minimum I think. Why, I don't know and perhaps that has changed in the past 3 years (they seem to change the rules every year!).

I would suggest you shoot an email off to the UDI and ask them if this is possible for you two - in my experience they are very helpful. Their online docs can be convoluted, vague and seem to miss out some of the more obscure routes you can take.

BTW, we know of people waiting well over a year for their fiancée visas to be approved... Whatever you decide, make sure you include every scrape of documentation you have. The more the better even if you think it's entirely irrelevant. Label everything. Make it an "our relationship for dummies" document. When we sent if off, our paperwork weighed half a kg - and I'm not exaggerating, we weighed it. 

Good luck.

[The Natural]

@ Faux pas and ML,
 
I will ask my girl to check into the possibilities of a visa, she just said in her e-mail that she think it's too difficult. It's to the northern island of Cyprus and a friend of mine said we can use their house. It's in an area where many Russians also have summer residences.

[The Natural]

All is "natural"  in this story. All my congratulations my buddy, you (both) perform well. If you are in Ukraine in may there is a lot of chances that i would be too....

Thanks a lot buddy. Checked into the possibilities for a early vacation and it looks promising. What I'm thinking of is going around May 21 (my birthday)until medio June. Yes, would be nice to meet up if you're there then.

[The Natural]

Congrats dude.

FWIW, you may be able to get married in Norway while she's here on a tourist visa and then apply for family reunion while she stays here. This is what my wife and I did and it was suggested by the UDI - we could have done the fiancée route or an EU-citizen route but the family reunion while she was here was the best in the long run. The only issue is that it can take some time to get the reunion approved and she won't be able to leave Norway while that is going on - at least not unless her tourist visa is still valid. Ours took only 6 weeks though I think. There used to be at least one caveat though; she needs to be able to prove she has a higher education, a degree was the minimum I think. Why, I don't know and perhaps that has changed in the past 3 years (they seem to change the rules every year!).

I would suggest you shoot an email off to the UDI and ask them if this is possible for you two - in my experience they are very helpful. Their online docs can be convoluted, vague and seem to miss out some of the more obscure routes you can take.

BTW, we know of people waiting well over a year for their fiancée visas to be approved... Whatever you decide, make sure you include every scrape of documentation you have. The more the better even if you think it's entirely irrelevant. Label everything. Make it an "our relationship for dummies" document. When we sent if off, our paperwork weighed half a kg - and I'm not exaggerating, we weighed it. 

Good luck.

Thanks a lot Ade. Well, what I've found by reading the info from UDI is that one may marry here on a tourist visa but that the applicant must apply for residence from her home country. That's what my ex-wifes mother did and she had to wait about 7 or 8 months for that to go through. My girl don't have a higher degree.
 
The info said about 4 months, less if all the documents are there and correct, more if they need additional information. Any suggestions to as what kind of documentation we might bring in addition to the required?

[Ade]

Thanks a lot Ade. Well, what I've found by reading the info from UDI is that one may marry here on a tourist visa but that the applicant must apply for residence from her home country. That's what my ex-wifes mother did and she had to wait about 7 or 8 months for that to go through. My girl don't have a higher degree.

I would send them an email and ask them anyway. You never know. We read the same thing as you on their website and it's only luck that I phoned them and was told she could stay and apply while here.
 

The info said about 4 months, less if all the documents are there and correct, more if they need additional information. Any suggestions to as what kind of documentation we might bring in addition to the required?

If you are lucky it can be quick. There doesn't seem to be any logic to why some people end up waiting a year or more although it probably has something to do with lack of, incorrect or unclear information in the application. We included everything from our trips; hotel receipts, flight booking receipts, credit card statements (with billing info to Russia for instance). Each trip, her coming here and me there, were sorted together, labelled with a description and included photos of us together in that place. Plus all the marriage stuff, pictures and the like. The more organized and easy the paperwork is for them to go through the quicker it will be I guess.

[The Natural]

Wow, good idea and tips for added documentation. I don't have any receipts from my trip to Crimea, but I have the stamps in my passport which is copied and stamped by the police. Will ask my girl if she still have the travel documents from her visit here. Excellent advice to enclose photos of the two of us. She had to show that when she applied for her visa but more of that won't hurt. Will also print out receipts for money sent to her while we are apart. Thanks a lot for the tips Ade.

[Ade]

Wow, good idea and tips for added documentation. I don't have any receipts from my trip to Crimea, but I have the stamps in my passport which is copied and stamped by the police. Will ask my girl if she still have the travel documents from her visit here. Excellent advice to enclose photos of the two of us. She had to show that when she applied for her visa but more of that won't hurt. Will also print out receipts for money sent to her while we are apart. Thanks a lot for the tips Ade.

Include anything and everything that shows, even indirectly, that you both have a history. The fact that she spent some months in Norway is a huge plus - include at least 1 Christmas picture of you two together with "Jul 2011" on it!

[Gylden]

Hi Natural,
As you know, the laws keep changing, but when I married my wife she came here on a tourist visa and she was allowed to wait here for her oppholdstilatelse. After she got her tilatelse, went back to Ukraine to apply to bring her kids here.
As far as Turkey is concerned she can buy her visa at the airport in Turket upon arrival, I think it is USD 30 for Ukrainians. We were there two years ago and it was a blast!
My wife says that if your GF would like some info/support she can take contact with her. If she is interested send a PM.

[Gator]

Splendid news, Roy!  Congratulations!
 
Regarding Turkey, Ukrainian citizens and Americans obtain a visa upon arrival, about 10-15 minutes in a queue and a modest payment.
 
I can understand that Turkish Cyprus is different.  Southern Cyprus now requires a visa before arrival. 
If you do go to Turkey, Antalya is about the beach and shopping and a couple of decent excursions.  It is so popular with FSU people that many shop signs are in Russian.  More of the Turkish hotel staff speak Russian than English.  It is indeed the Russian Riviera.  Quality varies widely.   A 5-star rating is equivalent to 3 1/2 stars in the US.   Interior Turkey has a couple of World Heritage sites,
 
When preparing a petition for a US visa, it is paramount to be 100% truthful.  If caught in a falsehood, the woman could be banned for life from immigrating or even visiting.   Is Norway different?

[The Natural]

Yes, you guys are certainly right about it not being difficult to get a visa for ther to mainland Turkey. But the whole point of us going to northern Cyprus is that a friend of mine here in Norway, which is married to a Russian woman, have a house that we can rent, see the photo. I read up on the situation and conflict in Cyprus yesterday and it's complicated to put it mildly. The south is controlled by Greece and the north by Turkey but the "occupation" by Turkey is not supported by anyone else than Turkey itself. On the Cypros site it says the only legal point of entry is from the south, which means a Schengen visa. Flights into the northern part of Cypros are only done from mainland Turkey and this route seems a little risky as our bigger plan is to get her a permanent residence in Norway which of course is a Schengen area.
 
My friend and his family fly into southern Cypros and is picked up by a dependable taxi driver coming from the north. As it stands right now, I will get him to issue a document with Publicus Notarius saying we will rent his house and bring with me to Ukraine. There we will try for a visa for my girl. If we run into too much trouble with that, we will find other places to vacate. The most important is that we are together.
 
 

Splendid news, Roy!  Congratulations!
 

Thanks a lot.
 

When preparing a petition for a US visa, it is paramount to be 100% truthful.  If caught in a falsehood, the woman could be banned for life from immigrating or even visiting.   Is Norway different?

I wouldn't be surprised if Norwegain law is a bit more forgiving than US law but I'm not about to test that 

[ML]

Reidar, a planned trip to the northern part of Cyprus that is controlled by Turkish forces is quite risky with respect to later travel to other countries.

For instance, if you try to enter Greece and they see a stamp in your  passport from the northern Cyprus area, then you likely will be denied entrance into Greece.  And this may apply to other countries as well.

I have heard that some people get the northern Cyprus authorities to stamp a separate piece of paper rather than in your passport.  But this procedure cannot be guaranteed.

All in all, given that you are trying to get your gal permanently into Norway, I don't think it is worth it just to try to save a little on a rental or to get a nice rental.

[The Natural]

Reidar, a planned trip to the northern part of Cyprus that is controlled by Turkish forces is quite risky with respect to later travel to other countries.

For instance, if you try to enter Greece and they see a stamp in your  passport from the northern Cyprus area, then you likely will be denied entrance into Greece.  And this may apply to other countries as well.

I have heard that some people get the northern Cyprus authorities to stamp a separate piece of paper rather than in your passport.  But this procedure cannot be guaranteed.

All in all, given that you are trying to get your gal permanently into Norway, I don't think it is worth it just to try to save a little on a rental or to get a nice rental.

Your points are valid and you might be right ML. At this stage I want to be more on the cautious side so as not to risk anything with my girls status. Me as a citizen of the Schengen area have no problem in this regard, but we could have problems with her status, who knows in this day and age.
 
Yes, the info from the northern Cyprus side stated that you can get a stamp outside of your passport. But as you said, you never know.
 
Good news from immigration today though. After we have submitted her application for a fiancee visa, it is no problem if we get a visa to a Schengen country in the meantime, if we decide to take a nice vacation somewhere down south where it's sunny and nice   

[The Natural]

FWIW, you may be able to get married in Norway while she's here on a tourist visa and then apply for family reunion while she stays here. This is what my wife and I did and it was suggested by the UDI - we could have done the fiancée route or an EU-citizen route but the family reunion while she was here was the best in the long run. The only issue is that it can take some time to get the reunion approved and she won't be able to leave Norway while that is going on - at least not unless her tourist visa is still valid. Ours took only 6 weeks though I think. There used to be at least one caveat though; she needs to be able to prove she has a higher education, a degree was the minimum I think. Why, I don't know and perhaps that has changed in the past 3 years (they seem to change the rules every year!).

I would suggest you shoot an email off to the UDI and ask them if this is possible for you two - in my experience they are very helpful. Their online docs can be convoluted, vague and seem to miss out some of the more obscure routes you can take.

I called the UDI today. Was told there are 15 operators and I'm number 68 in line! I was slowly advancing in the line but fortunately after a few minutes I was told I could leave my phone number and they will call me back and I would not lose my place in the line. After a good while I got the call from them and it was a lady with an accent.
 
Your information is correct. I explained the situation we have and that I've heard it is possible to marry on a tourist visa and get to stay while the application for permanent residence were being processed. She said that yes, the rule is that people must go to their home country and apply from there but that there are exceptions to the rules. So the exception is as you mentioned, the applicant must prove that they have a higher education, Bachelor degree or more. So that means we will continue our route which is applying for the fiancee visa.
 
Just as well I think. This way I get to go to Ukraine and stay with her to shorten the waiting period. Yours and Gylden's help and input are greatly appreciated, very friendly and nice of you. I hope you like life here in Norway, i sosialdemokratiet 

[Ade]

I called the UDI today. Was told there are 15 operators and I'm number 68 in line! I was slowly advancing in the line but fortunately after a few minutes I was told I could leave my phone number and they will call me back and I would not lose my place in the line. After a good while I got the call from them and it was a lady with an accent.
 
Your information is correct. I explained the situation we have and that I've heard it is possible to marry on a tourist visa and get to stay while the application for permanent residence were being processed. She said that yes, the rule is that people must go to their home country and apply from there but that there are exceptions to the rules. So the exception is as you mentioned, the applicant must prove that they have a higher education, Bachelor degree or more. So that means we will continue our route which is applying for the fiancee visa.
 
Just as well I think. This way I get to go to Ukraine and stay with her to shorten the waiting period. Yours and Gylden's help and input are greatly appreciated, very friendly and nice of you. I hope you like life here in Norway, i sosialdemokratiet 

Well it was worth a try at least. If you're lucky, your application will get processed fairly quickly.


Life in Norway is awesome and we are here to stay. I think a lot of Norwegians I've talked to don't appreciate how good they have it here compared to most places - even the taxes don't put much of a dent in my enthusiasm.


Good luck with the process!

[The Natural]

Life in Norway is awesome and we are here to stay. I think a lot of Norwegians I've talked to don't appreciate how good they have it here compared to most places - even the taxes don't put much of a dent in my enthusiasm.

We're about the same age you and me and I've been around a little in my life. Countries like Russia (was married), Ukraine, Poland, USA, United Arab Emirates, Spain (was married) + different western countries similar to mine. On some of these visits I have thought to myself when I'm back how good we have it. Yeah, it's easy to complain about this and that, but on a whole I would estimate that Norway is one of the most comfortable places to live in for the middle class.
 
What I like most here is our social net and that you don't have to live in complete poverty, health care, easy to get documents in my situation. What can be improved is more personal freedom, individuality and the weather, hehe.
 
It is expensive here yes, about the level of Iceland and Switzerland I think. What really sting are the 25% VAT (sales tax) and high taxes on "luxuries" like tobacco, alcohol and cars. But on the upside this is more than covered for by wages. My girlfriend was shocked when we went to the shop and paid like $ 50 for a bag of groceries. "But we bought almost nothing" she said. But that is relative of course. As a middle class person here I guess I have about 10 or 15 times more than average in Ukraine. It's really great to go to Ukraine because it feels so cheap there...for me. But for the average Ukrainian it's expensive enough. I remember once my girl commenting on how much I was spending last year. This was in the beginning when we met. In such a situation it is very important to tell your girl how it all connects. You may seem like a rich man in Ukraine but you're really just middle class normally. I have of course told my girl all about my financial situation. My disposable income and my loans and bills.
 
It would be intertesting to know how much others pay in income taxes. I was pleasantly surprised to find out that my income from 2011 was taxed at 24%. Each situation is of course individual based on deductions, but is it much lower in, say the US?

[The Natural]

A little update. I got all my papers ready and sent it off to her, have no idea how long it will take. But last time, with her visa application, it went pretty quickly.
 
But the powers that be don't maske it easy. See, she have to make her application for the fiancee visa through an official Application Portal. We did that together while on Skype. She didn't manage to navigate and some of the questions are pretty difficult to answer and/or comprehend, but we did it together as I got her password and at the end she had to send a request to me so that I could confirm I knew about and approved of the application. And the sweet sum to pay for the application is a cool $ 600. And that's just for submitting the application and not knowing the result.
 
Then it appeared that she cannot get an appoinment to submit the documents to the embassy before July 4. So if we knew that, we didn't have to stress with all the documents and I could have brought it with me. I knew it sounded too easy the first time. Well, we are positive and will jump through all the hoops they want.
 
I'm going to her on May 21 and will stay with her for a little over 3 weeks. I land in Kiev and she will meet me at the airport and then we will go to an apartment we have rented for the night before taking the train to Crimea. We haven't decided yet if to go directly to her home city of Kerch or perhaps staying a couple of nights in Sevastopol. We've also been talking about spending some days at a sea resort by the Azov sea. We're looking into different possibilities for rent and she's making calls to get more info.
 
Believe it or not, but I also want to bring my future MIL on this 4 or 5 days holiday trip outside Kerch, by the Azov sea, or other places if we decide. My girl is very close to her mother and I like her too even though we cannot communicate directly. She's on a very low fixed income and I will be very pleased to do something special for her. What we're looking at is of course renting separate rooms or in the latter case, cottages. My girl know what I'm looking for, which is an apartment/cottage with seperate kitchen and... very important... a balcony to enjoy the sunshine. My girl likes the beach a lot and me too, but I also look forward to quiet moments just soaking up the sunshine with a drink in one hand and a cigarette in the other and my girl close to me.
 
I will keep you informed and perhaps a few photos as last summer.

[Anotherkiwi]

...My girl likes the beach a lot and me too, but I also look forward to quiet moments just soaking up the sunshine with a drink in one hand and a cigarette in the other and my girl close to me...

And you call yourself "The Natural?"    At least give up smoking, then you can have your girl in the other hand instead of just being "close to me." 
 
Putting that aside, I wish you the very best for your future - especially with the MIL!