Told my Son to look in Ukraine.

[Gator]

You do not know me, Gator.  I am not a "half empty" type of person.  But, I am a realist. 

Pessimists usually claim they are realists.  Next time try to at least list the factors that could work in the young man's favor even though you believe he will fail. 
 
It is real easy to point to reasons why an initiative could fail. The best advice in the business world is not that something could fail but what must be done to achieve success. 
 
You just wrote something about what your husband would do.  I was going to comment that you sure do speak for him a lot.  However, you deleted it.   Do you agree or disagree that his stepmom should be a very valuable resource? 
 

The reality is, most young men of 24 do not have the emotional maturity to marry.  Going for a trip is an entirely different matter.

Many die for their country at age 18, yet could have never matured enough to marry.  Please!

[The Natural]

Many die for their country at age 18, yet could have never matured enough to marry.  Please!

That's just the hypocracy of modern society. I often think about how young men with much more hormones and spirit of adventure, than experience of life and how society really works, willingly offer themselves as canon fodder.
They have no idea of what they're really signing up for.
 
Hey, you are not allowed to drive a bus or a truck at 18, or buy a bottle of vodka, but it's perfectly fine for the same to kill or be killed for the empire!
 
Still, I think 24 is too young for marriage. Nowadays we see 30 year olds act like teenagers. Being excited by death, war and destruction is not being mature in my mind. It is the opposite and not a sound foundation for a loving marriage.
 
This has nothing to do with the young man in question here though, as I don't know him, but merely an opinion to the ensuing replies. Maybe this guy is one of the few young guys that is mature enough for all I know, but I'm pretty sure that won't be because he was in the military.

[I/O]

The guys don't like us Americans taking "their" women from them.

Rubbish, I've heard this but never seen any evidence of it. Basically, if a RW / UW decides to marry abroad, the local boys don't give a sch!t about her any further, plenty more fish in the sea as it were. Other than, it's long been considered fair sport for FSU boys to see if they can bang her right under the stupid foreigners nose just for sports sake.

having five double bogeys today, ruining a round with four birdies.

That is kinda up and down like a whores drawers as it were but in the final wash up, it's "6 over", could be worse.

Pessimists usually claim they are realists.

A cynic is what an idealist calls a realist, consider................

[Muzh]

They have no idea of what they're really signing up for.
 

BINGO


This IS why the age is 18 for joining the army.

A cynic is what an idealist calls a realist, consider................

LMFAO Fargging good.

[Kuna]

In my experience, working with young guys after they have served their country in the military, it made little difference to their maturity, at least not as it relates to relationships and readiness to get married. IMO.

Depends entirely on the person - it's a totally individual thing and generalisations are worthless. 

I married young and shouldn't have.  I had friends married at the same age and they are still happily married 20 years later.

The images in my mind of a UW "coaching" a "mature" ex-marine to get himself a wife are quite hilarious.

Childish and argumentative...  Not really necessary is it?

Whatever Gator, have it your way, I'm sure he'll survive the experience.

Which experience???  Traveling to a new place seeing new things?  I can't think of anything bad that would come out of that.

You assume he's like some of them men we've seen in here - desperate to marry.  Maybe he's normal and his father is doing what any father would want to do - give his some some advice and assistance.

I didn't see Gunner lining him up with his wife's cousins or neighbours...  did you?  It's hardly a forced effort to get him married off as soon as possible!

But I just don't understand why he would need to. I mean seriously, have you seen all the incredible young women out there? You know, from English speaking countries that can freely move from country to country without visa issues, without an economic disparity and with options, and are therefore not desperate for a mule? Why would he need to go through all the hassles and worries of going to Ukraine?

If a man NEEDS TO go to FSU to marry he probably shouldn't anyway...  did you feel like you "needed to" go to FSU to find a wife?

I'd assert that those that wants to should be free to seek advice in here because lots of assistance is available...  those that NEED TO do it are probably just stay at home.

Goodness knows we've all heard of so many men of low quality seeking a FSUW - those that "need to" go to FSU probably make up a higher proportion of the undesirables.





Personally I think the best route for someone like Gunners son is to focus on his own personal interests and find activities there to join in on.

Lately I've been seeing lots of pictures recently of Salsa dancing in the "town squares" around FSU.  There are music festivals, sporting events, clubs and associations of all types.

Go and mix with people who he's identify with and enjoy himself.

Of course he won't stop looking at home but he's 24 - he may or may not settle down yet.



A late thought... I would be against anyone using marriage agencies or marriage sites to set up dates and bonk their way around FSU.  It's done too often and is usually exploitative...  BUT, I see no problem with anyone of any age getting on the ground and dating normally and letting whatever happens happen.

He may or may not meet someone - but what is the problem either way?

[Gator]

That is kinda up and down like a whores drawers as it were but in the final wash up, it's "6 over", could be worse.

It was worse, as I had my usual bogeys (5), resulting in an 83 (4 more than my handicap).  Now thinking about it, I had only 4 pars (egads!!!).

 

A cynic is what an idealist calls a realist, consider................

Thanks for the Ozzie perspective.  I may have overreacted.  In my life I have benefited the most from hopeful realism. 

[Gator]

They have no idea of what they're really signing up for.

BINGO

This IS why the age is 18 for joining the army.

It could be worse, and it was when America had conscription.  I had some of those kids in my unit who did not want to be there and should have not been there.  Many were problems, straight out of the ghetto.  Most were too naive.   The sergeants would somehow mold them into soldiers (or engineers in my case).  I never fired my weapon the whole year I was in Vietnam.

[I/O]

It was worse, as I had my usual bogeys (5), resulting in an 83 (4 more than my handicap).  Now thinking about it, I had only 4 pars (egads!!!).

Military golf, left, right, left...........

Thanks for the Ozzie perspective.

British actually. IIRC it was Sir Humphrey Appleby (Nigel Hawthorne) in the comedy "Yes Prime Minister" who remarked thus.

[Boethius]

Pessimists usually claim they are realists.  Next time try to at least list the factors that could work in the young man's favor even though you believe he will fail. 
 
It is real easy to point to reasons why an initiative could fail. The best advice in the business world is not that something could fail but what must be done to achieve success. 
 
You just wrote something about what your husband would do.  I was going to comment that you sure do speak for him a lot.  However, you deleted it.   Do you agree or disagree that his stepmom should be a very valuable resource? 
 
Many die for their country at age 18, yet could have never matured enough to marry.  Please!

Again, I restate, you don't know me.  I am not a pessimist.  A pessimist would not have married a citizen of the USSR during the most tense period in Soviet relations since the Kennedy era.  A pessimist would not have brought children into the world.  A pessimist would not start her own business.
 
I never posted I believe he will fail.
 
My husband and I are inseparable - муж и жена - одна сатана.  But, I didn't post about what he would do.  No, I don't think a UW would be any more helpful in finding her stepson a woman, or deciding who is suitable, than you would be in finding your son an AW, or deciding for him who is suitable.
 
 
 
 

[ML]

The language would be difficult at airports. I have seen how the customs guys look and treat Americans. My wife does a lot of the talking. The guys don't like us Americans taking "their" women from them.

I have been in and out out FSU airports dozens of times.  Sometimes with an FSU woman in tow.  I have never had any of the problems you alude to here. 

And, they do speak English at the airports. 

[Kuna]

Again, I restate, you don't know me.  I am not a pessimist.  A pessimist would not have married a citizen of the USSR during the most tense period in Soviet relations since the Kennedy era.  A pessimist would not have brought children into the world.  A pessimist would not start her own business.
 
I never posted I believe he will fail.
 
My husband and I are inseparable - муж и жена - одна сатана.  But, I didn't post about what he would do.  No, I don't think a UW would be any more helpful in finding her stepson a woman, or deciding who is suitable, than you would be in finding your son an AW, or deciding for him who is suitable.

A realist wouldn't believe they were perfect.

.. must be hard being so perfect, in the perfect marriage, to the perfect husband...


FWIW - I know a few pessimists who have built very successful businesses.  Typically they are very cautious, very risk adverse and at times bordering on paranoid when making decisions... 

[Boethius]

I don't recall ever posting I was perfect, nor that my husband is perfect.   But for me, he is perfect.  Is your wife not perfect for you?
 
Why do so many posters here believe that is someone isn't wailing in despair about their lives, they must be smug?  I've read this numerous times about certain posters who post admiringly about their spouses, or even their MIL's, though I understand it is more entertaining to read dirt and high drama for most people (forum "hits" affirm that).
 
I deal with a lot of business people, ranging from young people starting out, to men who have built businesses worth hundreds of millions of dollars.  In fact, I am working right now.  I can't say I ever recall coming across even one client who was a pessimist.  Only one that I can think of was reckless - won big, but gambled big, and lost a $200 million company to bankruptcy, which, sadly, killed him less than a year later.  Some were cautious, but I can count them on one hand.  In my experience, most business people are risk takers, at least, those who own their own businesses.   I don't do any public company work anymore, but those working for public companies, or banks, want every base covered, and they are not, in my experience, risk takers. 
 
Something else interesting, though unrelated.  I cannot count how many times I have heard that it is so difficult to do business in the U.S. now, that many are giving up.   Fifteen years ago, you never heard that, and cross border work was very lucrative for business.  Now, they say the red tape is so time consuming, and costs so much money, that they question whether it is worth it.
 
 
 

[Kuna]

Is your wife not perfect for you?

Is that a loaded question??? 

You've had a go at my wife in here before.  I won't give you the chance again and while you're still stalking around here in FSU I'd caution any man to discuss his wife's opinions to avoid you giving your "always right" assertion on what a UW/RW REALLY thinks.

It's one of your weaknesses - you believe you're always right and everyone else is wrong.  We love you for it though... really!

Why do so many posters here believe that is someone isn't wailing in despair about their lives, they must be smug?

Because you are smug.  Here's an example:

Most men are not mature enough for marriage at 24. 
 
I would advise my sons not to marry before 30.

The OP actually asked this:

OK,,I am married to my Russian/Ukraine women. All is great. My son(just out of the USMC) just broke up with his US girl,,I have advised him to seriously look in Ukraine. No agencys,,,what are some sites for him to start looking and talking? I advised him he can Skype the girls so he knows they are real,,then he can fly next year with us when we go see family. He is 24 and will be starting Chef school this Fall. Thanks for any help.

I don't see the OP asking if RWD members thought 24 was too young or too old to start considering a FSUW... and I have no idea why you'd feel compelled to give your opinion on his maturity or readiness to marry??? 

Maybe you can tell us why?

I deal with a lot of business people, ranging from young people starting out, to men who have built businesses worth hundreds of millions of dollars.  In fact, I am working right now.  I can't say I ever recall coming across even one client who was a pessimist.  Only one that I can think of was reckless - won big, but gambled big, and lost a $200 million company to bankruptcy, which, sadly, killed him less than a year later.  Some were cautious, but I can count them on one hand.  In my experience, most business people are risk takers, at least, those who own their own businesses.   I don't do any public company work anymore, but those working for public companies, or banks, want every base covered, and they are not, in my experience, risk takers. 

This is your experience - but only your experience.  I've had a different experience - maybe just broader, but it seems definitely different.

I deal with hundreds of clients a year, but no start-ups - we don't engage with start-ups.  They're often optimists, (sometimes blind optimists) and have too high a failure rate early in the life of a business.  It's a generalisation but a part of our qualification process.

The pessimists I've dealt with are often of a technical ilk.  They can be highly innovative in their thought process and one I can think of was an absolute pessimist and was driven to prove something couldn't be done - and ended up realising what COULD be done.  It was frustrating working with him because of all the barriers he wuld throw in the way.  His company built a payments technology for the web (a while ago now) and on exit he took >$50,000,000 into retirement. He hastily retired because he thought if he re-invested or started again he would lose everything whereas his partner started something new and recently listed on the ASX - and seems to be doing nicely.

(btw... I am working right now too... but I don't feel special so I usually don't mention it.  Is there a reason you think we should know that you are "working right now"?)

Something else interesting, though unrelated.  I cannot count how many times I have heard that it is so difficult to do business in the U.S. now, that many are giving up.   Fifteen years ago, you never heard that, and cross border work was very lucrative for business.  Now, they say the red tape is so time consuming, and costs so much money, that they question whether it is worth it.

Why is this interesting in the context of the OP's original question? 

Sorry,  you've lost me... please enlighten us...

[Ade]

I am an optimistic person, and I think the glass in this case is more than half full, maybe completely full.  The two of you are highly critical and tend to see the glass as half empty.  In this case you said "empty."   
 
Advice such as yours does serve a useful purpose by showing "what could be wrong" so that a person can add it to "what seems right" and make a reasoned decision.  But to suggest this is "creepy" is projecting too much of yourself and not recognizing.... I have said enough.

It's often that the fantasist claims he is an optimist and it's not uncommon that I've seen the ever hopeful fantasist head toward the inevitable train wreck as they hook up with unsuitable women for all the wrong reasons.

I like to think I'm a critical thinker and a realist. In my line of business, the simplest solution to a problem is almost always the best. Pointing your early twenties son at  Ukraine and saying "go get em", may, IMO, lead to a whole heap of grief he doesn't need and engineering a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. At his age, probably fit and full of himself after the USM and entering college, really, do you think he's going to be short of eligible dates that he can actually talk to as well as bonk?

And I never said it was "creepy" I said it was weird (and ill advised).

[ECOCKS]

Christ...

Some folks need to step away from the keyboard and consider how rude it is to the OP to go on about how poorly you play golf, whether you can make a more crude statement to get a laugh or spend a page attacking each other or feeling like you have to defend yourselves. Dredging up old, personal grudge matches from history has NOTHING to do with TG's question.

How about some mod splits away  the crap from this thread so TG can work on his original question and concept?

Anyway....

TG, what is your son's reaction to the idea and has he read some of the foolishness that resulted  in this thread?

Also, if you want to send him to a really wild place, I know a guy in Krygyzstan who just opened a BBQ pit and he's looking for an intern!

[thompsongunner06]

Thanks ! He will do his EDUCATION first. Get job offers or placement. If he wants to go with us to visit her family thats cool. I dont plan on taking him to a whore house. He can make his own decision on what girl he will look for. The mods can lock this,,,I did not want to start the cold war up again.

[Gator]

ECOCKS and TommyGun (TG is Truboguy in my mind),
 
You are correct.  Most of the "cold war" is simply a difference in opinion in combination with a difference in personality (or at least posting style).   A difference in opinion should be helpful for OPs who are deliberating about how best to proceed.  The OP is the battlefield general and makes the decisions because he knows far more than any others about his situation.
 
Good luck.  And please pass my gratitude to your son for serving his country.
 
 

[Gator]

Ade,
 
I just saw the news about an explosion in Oslo.  I hope that everyone is okay and that this is not a terrorist attack. 

[Turboguy]

It was worse, as I had my usual bogeys (5), resulting in an 83 (4 more than my handicap).  Now thinking about it, I had only 4 pars (egads!!!).

And here I thought you golfed so much that you were a better golfer than I am.  It only takes me 9 holes to get that score so that means I am the better golfer.  Also I can combine swimming and lots of walks through the woods with my golf so I get more nature as well.

[Gator]

And here I thought you golfed so much that you were a better golfer than I am.  It only takes me 9 holes to get that score so that means I am the better golfer.  Also I can combine swimming and lots of walks through the woods with my golf so I get more nature as well.

  Thank you TG, one of the more obvious optimists at RWD.   I imagine that you follow one of the most important guidelines about golf - never get angry about a bad shot, and instead accept and take solace in the fact that you will soon hit an even worse shot.
 
Your golf bag must become noticeably lighter as you during your round as you lose golf balls.   

[Misha]

A pessimist would not have married a citizen of the USSR during the most tense period in Soviet relations since the Kennedy era.  A pessimist would not have brought children into the world.  A pessimist would not start her own business.

A pessimist, any pessimist IMHO, is perfectly capable of getting married, having children and starting a business.

[Ade]

Ade,
 
I just saw the news about an explosion in Oslo.  I hope that everyone is okay and that this is not a terrorist attack.

Thanks for asking. We are fine and an hour away from the explosion, but reports are that 2 have died so far and quite a few injured. Police have said it was a bomb. No one is sure yet what the target was because it was close to the government ministry and the office of oil/gas administration as well as some popular papers.

As you'd expect, people are in shock.

[Turboguy]

Your golf bag must become noticeably lighter as you during your round as you lose golf balls.   

I went from being in two leagues before marriage to not golfing after.  So I basically traded my golf clubs for my wife which is a good deal since the last set was not as expensive and the set before it.   I am sure when I gave up golf (for now) that the stock of the ball manufactuers tanked the following year.   The itch is coming back however.
 
No bad shots never bothered me.  The good ones were the exception that made it all worth while.  I used to have and play with one of my salesmen who was a scratch golfer and missed qualifying for the open by one shot.  You could see him hit a beautiful shot off the tee that went 260 yards straight as an arrow and the next thing you would see is his club flying nearly as far as the golf ball because he wanted a slight draw on his shot.  I always believed if you can't enjoy something don't do it.

[Boethius]

Kuna, please respond to what I post, rather than what is in your imagination.

[Turboguy]

You should send TurboGuy a PM and get his consensus about how his son took to going there. I realize every individual react differently, but at least you'll get a good perspective from a 'Dad' doing what you're thinking of doing for/to his son. He took his son to Ukraine as he was in the same situation like your son (recent break-up) IINM.
 

My son had a great time there but I am not sure he would have done it on his own without me going with him.  There is some similarity except my son was a little older.  I think I read that Tommy's son is a Marine, my son is an ex marine (still in the Army reserves).  I think it would be a good move and that both father and son would enjoy it.