Putin calls USA a parasite on the world economy!

[OlgaH]

Tort reform, yes!!!!    This was in the Simpson Bowles plan.  It would reduce healthcare costs.
 

Yes, tort reforms probably reduce healthcare costs, though it is not guaranteed, but the number of medical malpractice case most likely will rise too.

A recent case in Florida: due to the negligence of doctors and nurses who simply did not read a woman's chart and gave her a wrong medication, the woman became disabled mentally and physically for the rest of her life, she is right now what doctors call a "vegetable". She had family and was running her own business. 

American Greed: Skin Doctor Takes His Cut
A respected doctor. Trusting patients. Dr. Michael Rosin runs a thriving dermatology practice specializing in a highly effective procedure for skin cancer. But, Dr. Rosin’s surgery isn’t just a cancer treatment... it’s a goldmine.
http://www.hulu.com/watch/54131/american-greed-skin-doctor-takes-his-cut

[BC]

Unfortunately not always they have "the latest and greatest machines to do it with" and acceptable work conditions.

Ethics in International Business
http://highered.mcgraw-hill.com/sites/dl/free/0073102555/324680/Hill6e_IB_Sample_Chapter04.pdf

Olga,

It's up to business to establish the limits.. based on what the public accepts as 'acceptable'.

It is indeed good that those buying services are sensitive to those producing.

But that's not something that the government should necessarily be involved in. 

[SANDRO43]

There are trillions offshore waiting to come back home. If they can prove that every cent goes toward additional employment I say 'just do it'.

Unlikely . Since you live in Italy, you may remember a law enacted here in 2009 called Scudo fiscale (Tax Shield). In short, it allowed illegal capital exports made up to 2008 to be 'regularised' - i.e. be exempt from any prosecution and remain anonymous, i.e. undisclosed to tax authorities - for the payment of a paltry 5% 'tax'.

The sorely disappointed expectation was for a return home from abroad  of these capitals  -  IIRC this happened only for about 10% of the sums involved .

Only the most naive of tax dodgers fall for such enticements .

[OlgaH]

Olga,

It's up to business to establish the limits.. based on what the public accepts as 'acceptable'.

It is indeed good that those buying services are sensitive to those producing.

But that's not something that the government should necessarily be involved in.

Depends on a country's government, I think. Most countries where the Western companies run their business don't care...

[BC]

Yes, tort reforms probably reduce healthcare costs, though it is not guarantee, but the number of medical malpractice case most likely will rise too.

A recent case in Florida: due to the negligence of doctors and nurses who simply did not read a woman's chart and gave her a wrong medication, the woman became disabled mentally and physically for the rest of her life, she is right now what doctors call a "vegetable". She had family and was running her own business.

In war, there is a concept called 'collateral damage'.

In other words, shⁱt happens.  This woman may have been harmed because of a mistake.  Accidents happen in medicine as on the highway.. In Europe, unlimited liability vs mandated liability costs the owner of a car little more. . not even pennies per mile.  That's because european courts are somewhat conservative in the amounts awarded for claimed damages.  The value of society is placed above that of the individual. 

Call that socialism or whatever, but it does protect society as a whole.

In the US, lawyers fight tooth and nail for individual rights that do not necessarily serve society well.

[BC]

Unlikely . Since you live in Italy, you may remember a law enacted here in 2009 called Scudo fiscale (Tax Shield). In short, it allowed illegal capital exports made up to 2008 to be 'regularised' - i.e. be exempt from any prosecution and remain anonymous, i.e. undisclosed to tax authorities - for the payment of a paltry 5% 'tax'.

The sorely disappointed expectation was for a return home from abroad  of these capitals  -  IIRC this happened only for about 10% of the sums involved .

Only the most naive of tax dodgers fall for such enticements .

Sandro,

Yes, I remember.

Thus my caveot:

If they can prove that every cent goes toward additional employment.

[SANDRO43]

Sandro, Yes, I remember. Thus my caveAt

Yes, I read that, which makes the whole proposition unrealistic .

[OlgaH]

In war, there is a concept called 'collateral damage'.

In other words, shⁱt happens.  This woman may have been harmed because of a mistake.  Accidents happen in medicine as on the highway..

Collateral damage? If it would be you, your wife or your children? Most accidents happen in medicine as on the highway because of the negligence and irresponsibility.

"Between 44,000 and 98,000 Americans die each year in U.S. hospitals from preventable medical errors, and hospital errors rank between the fifth and eighth leading cause of death, according to the Institute of Medicine. Some 68 percent of error claims are related to orthopedic surgery."  http://abcnews.go.com/Health/WellnessNews/wrong-site-surgery-leads-doctors-public-apology/story?id=12121398

[BC]

Collateral damage? If it would be you, your wife or your children? Most accidents happen in medicine as on the highway because of the negligence and irresponsibility.

Yes, it does happen.  That is life.  Believe me, I have felt the pain dearly.  Money was the least of my and my families concern and I am today confident that the choices made  back then were correct.

One cannot establish a price for a life, but many attempt to do so.  Turning loss into gain is one of the worst forms of greed.

[SFandEE]

In war, there is a concept called 'collateral damage'.

In other words, shⁱt happens.  This woman may have been harmed because of a mistake.  Accidents happen in medicine as on the highway.. In Europe, unlimited liability vs mandated liability costs the owner of a car little more. . not even pennies per mile.  That's because european courts are somewhat conservative in the amounts awarded for claimed damages.  The value of society is placed above that of the individual. 

Call that socialism or whatever, but it does protect society as a whole.

In the US, lawyers fight tooth and nail for individual rights that do not necessarily serve society well.

There are institutional decisions made for profit that result in death.  Does the hospital advertise this on there website?  Whether this is acceptable to you for a poor stranger or wealthy friend, these can be operational decisions that result in catastrophic physical and financial damage to an individual made by an institution run by individuals who are driven by profit.  What's the point?  Death by organizational operational decision making should be a financial decision?


Another Brick on the Wall.

[OlgaH]

Yes, it does happen.  That is life.  Believe me, I have felt the pain dearly.  Money was the least of my and my families concern and I am today confident that the choices made  back then were correct.

One cannot establish a price for a life, but many attempt to do so.  Turning loss into gain is one of the worst forms of greed.

Really? But when a family loses its only provider due to a doctor's negligence who should support the family? A government on taxpayers money?

or when a working person loses his hands, legs, eyes due to someone's negligence and irresponsibility ... and can not work for the rest of his life any more. Who should support him financially including his medical expenses?

[BC]

There are institutional decisions made for profit that result in death.  Does the hospital advertise this on there website?  Whether this is acceptable to you for a poor stranger or wealthy friend, these can be operational decisions that result in catastrophic physical and financial damage to an individual made by an institution run by individuals who are driven by profit.  What's the point?  Death by organizational operational decision making should be a financial decision?


Another Brick on the Wall.

SFandEE

A lot of what goes on in fora such as this one is based on sharing experience.

The Supreme Court only hears cases where a party can show direct harm, and not conjecture.

Of course this is a discussion forum and not the Supreme Court, but trying to keep discussions somewhat 'real' is always good.

'Institutional decisions that result in death..' sounds like one of the healthcare arguments based on unfounded fear.. or is there any first hand experience you wish to share?

[BC]

Really? But when a family loses its only provider due to a doctor's negligence who should support the family? A government on taxpayers money?

or when a working person loses his hands, legs, eyes due to someone's negligence and irresponsibility ... and can not work for the rest of his life any more. Who should support him financially including his medical expenses?

Olga,

All these factors can be somewhat regulated, and are in many parts of the world.  Laws in Germany IMHO provides good middle ground solutions to such problems.  Maybe not perfect, but nothing is.

I remember in Turkey if one ran over a chicken in the road, one had to pay for so and so many generations of chickens and the eggs that could have been sold thereof...  My recollection is quite vague so please excuse any errors... but is something like that what you are looking for?

[OlgaH]

No BC, I'm not talking about chickens but people. And personally I witnessed how some cases went to "toilet" in Florida courts when plaintiffs weren't compensated at all or just minimum. Depends on a particular case.

[SANDRO43]

Collateral damage? If it would be you, your wife or your children? Most accidents happen in medicine as on the highway because of the negligence and irresponsibility.

Or ignorance. An anecdote from my distant past: my very first job in 1962 was as a researcher with Montecatini - then Italy's major chemical company - at Castellanza, some 35 Km west of Milan.

In addition to our Resin Research Institute, that location also hosted their  major plant for the production of formaldehyde. On joining, I remember being told that thanks to it (its pungent smell was quite noticeable in the air), the local people suffered from far less winter colds and flus. At the time, a very popular over-the-counter pharmaceutical named Formitrol was based on it: 

It was later found that prolonged assumption of this potent anti-bacterial agent is both carcinogenic and mutagenic . Fortunately for me, I only worked 1.5 years there, with no apparent ill effects yet after some 50 years . Maybe commuting to and fro saved me eventually .

I also remember driving with my father on our way to Linate's airport in the early 1950s past a plant of ACNA, a company producing colourants, and being told that they had a high indidence of cancer among their workers. After 60+ years, they are still cleaning up the environment at their only surviving Italian site.

And let's not mention asbestos, here they are still remedying the mess left by that once-popular insulator .

[BC]

No BC, I'm not talking about chickens but people. And personally I witnessed how some cases went to "toilet" in Florida courts when plaintiffs weren't compensated at all or just minimum. Depends on a particular case.

Understand Olga.

The problem is that US insurers have a very difficult time assessing risk since the the law, or interpretation thereof is quite variable.

[OlgaH]

Or ignorance.

something like this... very sad
http://daily.bhaskar.com/article/MP-IND-doctors-ignorance-cause-12-year-olds-death-hc-takes-note-1998629.html

[OlgaH]

Understand Olga.

The problem is that US insurers have a very difficult time assessing risk since the the law, or interpretation thereof is quite variable.

and it is good. It should be a problem between insurance and  their clients.

BTW Insurance Companies lawyers do a very good job too. And some of them are real sharks in good meaning 

[BC]

On joining, I remember being told that thanks to it (its pungent smell was quite noticeable in the air), the local people suffered from far less winter colds and flus.

Sandro,

It is indeed a rare occasion where I at the least can attempt to correct your grammar/spelling.

Would  ' colds and flu ' not be more correct?

[SANDRO43]

Sandro, It is indeed a rare occasion where I at the least can attempt to correct your grammar/spelling. Would  ' colds and flu ' not be more correct?

Not really:

Noun
flu (plural flus)

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/flu

Granted that flu is not often pluralised, but if it is, then flus is correct .

[BC]

Not really: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/flu

Granted that flu is not often pluralised, but if it is, then flus is correct .

Wow... I stand corrected....

Learn something new every day.

Thanks Sandro!

[SANDRO43]

Wow... I stand corrected....Learn something new every day. Thanks Sandro!

Don't mention it, always glad to help the poor natives with their own language .

[BC]

and it is good. It should be a problem between insurance and  their clients.

BTW Insurance Companies lawyers do a very good job too. And some of them are real sharks in good meaning 

Olga,

you sound like you are close to the industry.  I do a bit of adjudication myself.  After a while it's pretty easy to spot those with nefarious intent.  I do lean towards fair and honest treatment for those with reasonable claims.

[BC]

Don't mention it, always glad to help the poor natives with their own language .

LOL Sandro.. believe it or not I have learned quite a bit from your linguistic skills.

[Vincenzo]

Really? But when a family loses its only provider due to a doctor's negligence who should support the family? A government on taxpayers money?

Sorry, sometimes people die.

Let's imagine, I'm a surgeon. There was a shooting in the city and I have a patient. His relatives shout at me, "If he dies after the surgery, we'll sue you!" The chances of his survival are extremely low. I tell them, "The surgery will cost you $5,000 plus $100,000 to cover my malpractice insurance." That's capitalism in action.