American men who are scammers

[MoscowFlower]

   Yes, I agree some russian (or FSU) women are scammers.  But what about some american men who are scammers (or liars, or loosers, or whatever they call these sort of people)? 

   An american man borrowed from me $ 5 000 for a couple months. It was year 2000.  Waiting till now.  No, he doesn't refuse from his debt. Calls from time to time every time promissing to send me money "next week", "next months",  "this spring" and so on.   During 5 years he managed to return me only few hundrens. If it will keep going this way I 'll get all my money in my next life! Needless to say that I was going to marry this guy. 

   And believe me this isn't the only one case which I know. My friend who was married to american man had the same experience.   

 

   Need an advise concerning my case.

 

Thank you for reading

 

[catzenmouse]

MoscowFlower,

 Unfortunately there are good and bad people in every country and of each gender. This sounds like a legal issue that would have to be resolved by the court. I would suggest that you contact a lawyer in the area where this man lives and speak to him about the options that you have available to you. It is quite possible that the costs involved with the lawyer and the court would be more than what you would get back if you won the case.

Ken

P. S. Welcome to RWD!

[BillyB]

MoscowFlower,

All my life I was looking for a Russian woman that has more money than me and here you are! Unfortunately I'm engaged otherwise I would propose right here, right now.

You seem to be a very nice and trusting woman. You need to find the same in a man. Here is a website where ladies talk about the type of man you just mentioned but don't be paranoid of all men after reading in there.

http://forum.antidate.org/

I hope you stay and participate here as it would be nice if more women did that. Many of the men that participate here are some of the better men around. We're not sex tourists, we're looking for a sincere woman for a serious relationship, and we actually have jobs to where we don't need to borrow any of your money.  Have a positive attitude in what you say, post a photo and you might have some guys wanting to get to know you.

Unfortunately it would be hard for you to recover your money but don't lose your mental health over this bad experience. We've all been scammed at one time or another. Best wishes to you.

Billy

[Zhena]

Moscow Flower,never borrow the money to a man you dont know enough. I actually think that a normal man wont need your money to borrow. Unfortunately such the kind women are used often. There are many stories in inet.

And now,as a catzenmouse said something about a court(which will be difficult from russia),can you prove that u borrowed the money to him?

[MoscowFlower]

Ken,

Thank you for your reply.  Actually I was thinking about a lawyer.  I don't have any written agreement about that loan but have his emails and recorded  phone talks where he admits that he owes me money.  Money is not the main issue -  more upsetting was that I was deceived.  

Maybe I still will contact a lawyer - just to punish this jerk.

 

 

 

 

 

[catzenmouse]

Ken,

Thank you for your reply.  Actually I was thinking about a lawyer.  I don't have any written agreement about that loan but have his emails and recorded  phone talks where he admits that he owes me money.  Money is not the main issue -  more upsetting was that I was deceived.  

Maybe I still will contact a lawyer - just to punish this jerk. 

MoscowFlower,

 I do understand the desire to get some revenge on this person. I think we have all felt that way about someone in our lives. If you want to pursue the legal route then just do a google search on his city name + lawyer and I am sure you will get a lot of names to contact. If you just want to mess with him then contact the local paper and take out a full page ad saying what a jerk he is

 In the long run holding onto negative emotions for this person is more hurtful to you than anything else. I have found that in situations where I have felt as you do now it has been more healthy for me to put all thoughts and feelings about them into the trash and go forward with my life knowing that I did the right thing rather than the spiteful thing. Just a thought.

Ken

[MoscowFlower]

MoscowFlower,

All my life I was looking for a Russian woman that has more money than me and here you are! Unfortunately I'm engaged otherwise I would propose right here, right now.
 

Billy,

I appreciate your sense of humor. But I would never date a man who is after my money

You wrote:  "All my life I was looking for a Russian woman that has more money than me" 


You're right: it's hard to find a russian woman that has more money than american men. Actually, there are many wealthy women in Russia but they won't look for a foreign husband.

My case is different: I didn't give this man my extra money. I just felt pity of him as he had hard circumstances that time and I wanted to help him out. I'm really not that trusting and naïve and I wouldn't give money to a person whom I do0n't know good enough. Again, I was going to marry this guy after knowing him over year. And I had not 1% of doubt that he will return my money very soon.

Just in case if somebody might think that I'm old "babushka" who provides young hot "gigolo" with the money - I post my photo here. Additionally I want to mention that he was 21 year older than me. Sound almost like unreal! Right?

Thank your for your good words and suggestions,

[MoscowFlower]

[user=743]a fiancee[/user] wrote:

Moscow Flower,never borrow the money to a man you dont know enough. I actually think that a normal man wont need your money to borrow. Unfortunately such the kind women are used often. There are many stories in inet.

And now,as a catzenmouse said something about a court(which will be difficult from russia),can you prove that u borrowed the money to him?

Yes, fiancée, you're right! I knew him over a year - but now I think it is not enough. Sometime we live with people all life and still don't know them.

As to proof of money loan - I don't have a written document. Now I know that I should! Anyway I started to work on that. Made him to write about money loan in his emails and recorded his words about that loan on the phone.

As I've already mentioned, he has hard circumstances and tried to borrow money from his relatives, but they didn't give him. As I found later he just took from them money many times and never return. I wish to know that before!

As to court, I could go there myself if I will decide to start this process.

Thank you,

[BillyB]

[user=868]MoscowFlower[/user],

Nice photo. All you have to do now is use it for your avatar just like the way I have my photo under my name. If you read and post here often, you'll begin to see people's line of thinking, attitude, and people might see yours. Besides looks..., attitude, personality and character are important. You can also read peoples old posts in their profile to get a good idea on how they communicate with everyday people. It's easy for me to figure out people based on how they communicate.

From the few posts you have here, I can figure out that you have a sense of humor and you know English well. You write and spell better than many Americans! Also I believe you have some intelligence. You are not naive. Naive people are the ones who send money to people they never met. You've known your fiance for a year and it's normal to help a fiance or fiancee if they need it. Most men would be lucky to have a woman such as you that would help out financially when times are bad. There are givers and takers in this world. Let the takers associate and steal from each other. You're a giver and you need to find the same.

[Muj]

Sorry for your unfortunate situation.  You may present the case in the US in a small claims court since it sounds like you have documentation.   If you are able to travel here.  Since it sounds like he has no savings, he would probably end up paying you in monthly installments of some small amount for 2 to 4 years.  Of course you are risking the airfare and time off from work to win back your $5k.  If you can't travel here you may be able to obtain a lawyer in the US to represent you for a percentage of the court settlement.

[Louie]

If I'm not mistaken, you cannot have representation in small claims court, only the plaintiff and defendant are allowed to go before a judge. And let me also say that I am sorry that you got took, I do hope that you are able to recover some of your money, and that your heart heals also, I think that would hurt more than the money.

[Maxx]

Sorry to hear about your situation. I been where you are at. I know it hurts. My Russian ex-wife married me only to get into the USA and actively worked with others here and in Russia to start her new life without me *. I bet I put $50,000 into this fiasco (marriage). I remember one of the most painful things to me was to know I had been deceived. I would look back and see all the ways I been scammed. Love blinds us. But that's going to happen if we look for love. I mean how can we love if we don't trust?

Now I know it's best to find someone who is well established. Someone who will love you for you and not what material benefit (US citizenship or money) you can give them.

Also this rejection hurts. For me it was with wondering if I wasn't good enough for her. She was 15 years younger than me. Looks wise I think we were an even match. But why the rejection? Why the money scam? I asked one her Russian (actually Kazakastan) acquaintances why she didn't love me. She said "She has bad character" "She is a ego-tas" (? the Russian word for egotist) and cannot love anyone". Perhaps this is the same with your fiance?  

MoscowFlower we picked bad people that's all.

BillyB is right you should put your photo in your avatar and post here often.

 

Maxx


* Today is the 3 year anniversary she got her spousal visa at the Moscow embassy. We had been married in Russia the year before. 6 trips to visit her, monthly support, thousands (around $5000) more wired to take care of "problems". Less than 5 months later I filed for the divorce. She then left and traveled to her marriage agency contacts in another part of America. With their help got her "Green Card" 6 months later. I am sure my generosity with the wired money I had sent went to pay off the agency. 
  

 

[Zhena]

Yeah,guys ,all that is sad. Now too late to advice anything,you just got a life lesson. Moscow Flower,I wish you good luck and believe that you ll get more then you lost-with another man who will be right for you.

[MoscowFlower]

[user=868]MoscowFlower[/user],

Nice photo. All you have to do now is use it for your avatar just like the way I have my photo under my name. 

I tried to put my photo in avatar but it says: "Sorry, the file size is bigger than the maximum allowed (27K)."  The same with my other photos. I just scanned it and didn't pay attention what sise are they.  I will figure out how to change it. 


 

 

[MoscowFlower]

[user=868] [/user]  In the long run holding onto negative emotions for this person is more hurtful to you than anything else. I have found that in situations where I have felt as you do now it has been more healthy for me to put all thoughts and feelings about them into the trash and go forward with my life knowing that I did the right thing rather than the spiteful thing. Just a thought. 

Ken, you're right. I have to put all my thoughts and feelings about that into the trash. Actually I did that long time ago. But it seems something is still bothering me. Maybe I just need to express myself in public J . Because I didn't feel comfortable to share this story with any of my friends (Only one close friend knows about that). I'm pretty busy person and don't have much spare time - that's why although I have an internet at home for about 10 years - believe it or not - have never been at any internet forums or chats! This is my first time. Maybe I should do that long time ago - and be over with my emotional problems by now.

Latin proverb says: "Dixi et animam levavi" ("I said and relived my soul")

[MoscowFlower]

Sorry to hear about your situation. I been where you are at. I know it hurts. My Russian ex-wife married me only to get into the USA and actively worked with others here and in Russia to start her new life without me *. I bet I put $50,000 into this fiasco (marriage). I remember one of the most painful things to me was to know I had been deceived. I would look back and see all the ways I been scammed. Love blinds us. But that's going to happen if we look for love. I mean how can we love if we don't trust?  

Maxx,

I'm very sorry about what happened to your marriage. You're right, love blinds us. But believe me, one day all that will return to her - "What goes around comes around". Doesn't it?

By the way,  just now I've found a very interesting thing. That man I was talking about was scammed by internet scammer for some money and expensive gifts! J

I know you will be reworded! Plus you got good experience which will help you in the future.


 

[Maxx]

Thanks MoscowFlower. It helps that I have become friends with a few Russian women from these sites. For about a year after the divorce I would hear a Russian woman's accent and I would duck like I was being shot at. Combat nerves. Now I use my experience and guide other guys through the tough times. I am the "Master of Disaster" with RW/AM divorces.

I got a e-mail message that BillyB PMed me. I thought "Oh no not another one!" :hairraising:

But he just said that I should hook up with you as a possible good match... :kissing:

Really nice photo .

I used to have a easy to use avatar maker on my favorites column but I can't find it any more.

Maxx

P.S. Your name isn't Elvira, Elena, Elza or any other name that begins with El? My American ex-wife was named Ellen and my Russian ex-wife I called Elvira but her real name is Elena. I don't mix well matrimonially with women with "El" first names. It took me 2 years to figure out that was the problem.



 

[MoscowFlower]

   I been where you are at. I know it hurts. My Russian ex-wife married me only to get into the USA and actively worked with others here and in Russia to start her new life without me.   I remember one of the most painful things to me was to know I had been deceived. I would look back and see all the ways I been scammed. Love blinds us. But that's going to happen if we look for love. I mean how can we love if we don't trust?

   Now I know it's best to find someone who is well established. Someone who will love you for you and not what material benefit (US citizenship or money) you can give them.  

Maxx and all guys here!

   Thank you for all yours good words and advises. I really appreciate it.

   Maybe it's time for me not only to complain about my own problems here but also to give you some sort of my experience and my thoughts about the subject "Marriage to Russian (FSU) woman"

   I was working for 7 years as an interpreter (thanks God, it's not my main job!) for a guys like you who come to Moscow to meet russian women.

   Maxx said: "Now I know it's best to find someone who is well established. Someone who will love you for you and not what material benefit (US citizenship or money) you can give them".


   I know, Maxx, we all are looking for a love. Nobody wants to be used for money or US citizenship. But, as you said "Love blinds us" you, guys, maybe don't want to see the basic motivation of all these (FSU, China, Philippines etc) women why they post their profiles at marriage agencies sites. Do you see a lot of women from England, France, Japan and other economically developed countries there? I bet, not.

   And then another question: Why would a woman is ready to leave her native country, where she was born, where she has parents, sisters, brothers, friends? Why is she ready to move to unknown country very far from her home on the other side of the earth? Why she is ready to put herself into unknown society with different language, different culture, different tradition, different mentality etc.? Why? Because of love? Maybe. But they have made this decision to contact marriage agencies and to look for a foreign husband way before they met YOU!! Right? So, you have to admit that the basic motivation why russian women search for foreign husbands is economic conditions in their country. It's human to look for better place. Nothing is wrong with that.

   Maybe you will argue with me and say: "there are not good men in Russia, they all drink!". I've heard that statement many times from american men. You're wrong! That's just one of many stereotypes which foreigners have about Russia. There is a lot of very good men in Russia. They are not big drinkers (except, maybe, very small towns and villages where most men are jobless). I know so many nice men with all these qualities which will make them good loving husbands. You know, they have ONLY ONE PROBLEM - they don't have enough money to provide their family!!

   So, I just want to repeat: Nothing is wrong with the fact that russian women are looking for american husbands because they want well-being material life!

   Another side of that: Many russian women although they are looking for better material life - they won't marry a man whom they don't like. Along with better well being life they are looking for a person whom they will be able to love. Then it will be real and strong family (although the initial woman's motivation was to find better life).

   Unfortunately there are a lot of women who start to date an american man whom they don't really like (maybe because they just don't have anybody better at the moment, or just don't care about love). So, as soon as they get out of their country to the US they will try to "upgrade" their husbands - because there always are some men who have more money than you have!

   So, guys, you have to watch out very carefully! Don't let your love to blind you! Because I believe, that if you're wise and careful, you will be able to see all "red flags" at the beginning of your relationship.

And just one more note:

Maxx said: "Now I know it's best to find someone who is well established."

   Now, taking in consideration all what I've said above, it's obvious that not many of well established women in Russia will be ready that easily to leave their countries where they feel themselves comfortable enough. Maybe only in case of BIG, VERY BIG LOVE J

   Well, guys, I wish good luck to everybody who is still in search and happy family life who are already settled!

[catzenmouse]

MoscowFlower,

 That was a wonderful post. I look forward to you thoughts and insights in the future.

Ken

[catzenmouse]

Here is your picture cropped down to fit and use as an avatar if you like.

[acrzybear]

  If you can't travel here you may be able to obtain a lawyer in the US to represent you for a percentage of the court settlement.

Whoa!!  I go to training for a couple of weeks and the board has doubled or tripled:shock:

Welcome to RWD MoscowFlower:D

First thing is that small claims courts have a limit which depends on the state the transaction occurred or the person lives in and second is the limit for the judgement is anywhere from $1,000.00 to $2,500.00 (perhaps more depending on the state)

The second thing is that that has already been pointed out is that lawyers are not allowed to represent a person in small claims court.  Now if I was investigating this case I would also look in to the motivation and intentions and see if this subject commited similar acts with others, and  think about fraud or larceny charge of some sort, but all this is complicated by international boundries. 

Well that was my two cents, I'm off to supervise some crime

[Maxx]

but all this is complicated by international boundries. 

 

It sure is. Look at the 10's or 100's (?) of millions that RW/RM scam from AM and nobody can do anything about it. Well Putin did for that one Australian guy but one has got to wonder what all that was about.

Getting action through the US courts, if possible, could only happen if she traveled here. The defence has to be able to cross examine her at the trial and/or deposition. How much would her travel cost? Could she even come? How about American attorneys that cost $150 - $300 an hour? Should she risk the money on this? 

Also another cost and it's a big one is the emotional cost. Does she need this agravation in her life for the next year or so? Trials are often delayed here. My first divorce took a year and a half. The second 9 months. There is no swift justice in America and it doesn't come cheap if it comes at all.   

Maxx

 

[viking]

Billy B

 

By any chance can you view this website you mentioned in english?

[Bruno]

Billy B

 

By any chance can you view this website you mentioned in english?

English section at : http://forum.antidate.org/index.php?showforum=53

[viking]

Thanks, but this link only shows the topic headings in english. Not the discussions themselves, unless I am doing something wrong. Just courious to see what the women talk about. They can read ours but unless you know Russian, we can't see theirs.