women with adult children

[Misha]

So for anyone immigrating a woman with children should, or can, in fact keep their monthly clothing budget down to 50 big ones by taking them to garage sales and yard sales...

Again, GQ, different families have different priorities. Some families seek to save money where they can, to spend more on things they value. Some don't. You were the one arguing that a man would need $100,000 for the first year, I merely pointed out that this was a ridiculous sum and that many have made it on much less. But, I agree that this is what must my understood before getting married. If you know that you will be sharing a family car, then you should not marry a woman who expects a new car waiting in the driveway when she arrives. I am capable of understanding that what works for one family won't be acceptable for another, and one what man or woman seeks, may be a turnoff for another.

BTW, just so you understand, The GAP is NOT a designer boutique, LOL.

It is still overpriced if you can get the same clothes at half or a third of the price or even cheaper.
 

Ahhh! Joke...yeppers.....jokes....truth...the proverbial fine line, etc.

Again, more cheap shots.
 
 

The 60-40 split between you and wifey for your monthly food (alcohol) budget. LOL. (Oooppsss, there it goes again).

Yes, we do occasionally buy a bottle of wine or a six-pack of beer (on average once a month, sometimes less), and yes, I certainly do consume more of the family's food than my wife, eating a second potato or a second portion of meat. Again, the point was and is: adding a second person to your budget does not really double your costs. Many costs remain the same (rent/mortgage, cable bills, etc...) and in some cases you can save costs elsewhere. Food is a prime example: North American families throw out billions of dollars worth of food each and every year. If a family simply starts shopping more wisely and makes sure to eat all the food in the fridge and the cupboards before it goes bad, they can easily save up to 10 to 20% of their food costs.

[TheTraveler]

I agree with GQ in that the importance of finances in this endeavor can not be underestimated. I have been reading the forums for RW living in the West for several years now, provides a good picture of the "other side of the medal". In my experience, the most common problem in the MOB marriages is that the AM underestimate the cost of supporting an immigrant wife, and more often an immigrant wife who arrived with one or more children. I'd say new topics on this issue are posted almost daily on the RW forum. You have no idea how often it turns out that the AM doesn't have money to support even the basic needs - AOS documents, a car for the wife, health insurance, even proper nutrition for the family. Some of the stories are truly sad and/or horrifying. It takes suspiciously too many AM by surprise that "Oops, my new Russian family costs more than a couple puppies from the sheltor!"
 
And really, I don't understand it when a 50-yo AM only makes 40-50K, what has he been doing his whole life? There has been a great job opening at my current place of employment recently that requires fluent Russian and the knowledge of Russian culture. I've forwarded it to 4 of my RW friends who have been here in the US for 3-6 years. The job pays 55-60K. Guess what - they turned this offer down since their current jobs pay over 70K. They won't chasnge jobs for less than 80K. Neither of them is a programmer either 

Great great post !  Agree 100%

[Patagonie]

You are correct. The family spends money based on their priorities. When money is tight,  necessities become your priorities : food, bills, clothing. No life style at all. No hobbies, no trips.. no nothing. Whatever you want to do or buy outside  necessities you cannot have.  A lot of girls live this type of life in Russia - having merely enough money for necessities. Yes, she might not have had a car in Russia, but in Russia it is  not a necessity. Here - it is. Is love possible in this situation? I guess...Does happiness depend on quality of life? Yes it does. Moms and granmoms might tell you stories how they were oh so happy living in communal apartments, with one toilet for 40 people. My mom has stories like this. She lovingly remembers how happy they were being newly wed with my dad living in a 9 sq.m room in a communal appartment. But from where I stand, it seemed like they were constantly fighting to survive, they did not have a choice - everybody was in the same situation. Right now the situation has changed. Personally I would not want to move from one "surviving life style" to another half a world away.

I agree with you, howefer i would say money is not happiness, it's freedom. It's not exactly the same. But i share your post, the true life begins when you are not struggling, surviving. But probably 3/4 or more of the earth is just fighting. Just keep an eye on that.

[Muzh]

It really isn't difficult GQ. The principle is quite simple: find a woman who will fall in love with you, a woman who can love you, a woman who will not marry you solely for a better financial deal, a woman who is rational, and a woman who shares the same goals as you, and the rest falls into place. If you marry a woman who is there only out of mercantile pursuits, then the money and spending will suffice and eventually she will move on to greener pastures 

+1

Paradoxically, the men who seem most happy in their marriages, apparently did just that: GOB wife's IIRC can make a penny squeal with her frugality, Muzh I believe stated that he lived quite well on $50k give or take.

Well, that was a few pay raises ago, THANK GOD. But still, the standard of living here is much more expensive than most of the midwest (for the exception of Chicago and other metropolis) and I've heard of a couple of young(er) guys around here with similar salaries (~$50K) who are managing with their RW.

I really never understood the notion of clothing allowance, make up allowance, etc. We bought clothes (and other stuff) because: a) we needed new ones, b) looked like a great deal, c) gift, d) what the hell. My wife is one that will not go shopping for clothes without me, and trust me, I've tried to send her alone for that purpose. We just make it a fun outing, like going to the movies.

Going back to the "allowance", I find that is more appropriate for my children. And I'll stop at that.

[GoodOlBoy]

Personally I would not want to move from one "surviving life style" to another half a world away.

This is probably where GOB strongly disagrees with you D_P.
 
There are so many more opportunities here in the Good Ol' USA, that I dare say (sadly) it may be generations in the FSU before they see the same kind of possibilities available to them.

Can you say Barack Obama?
 
And for FSU women with children, the Good Ol' USA is a gold mine.
 
I also read the RW's forums (with the help of my wife). Yes, I hear the meowing from people like Doll and the rest, but I have also read countless times about how grateful RW with children are to have land here in the GoodOl' USA.
 
My poor BIL who is in his late 40's (with an education), is still working in Siberia for bread crumbs. He is a wonderful guy. He is NOT a lazy man. Sadly, he doesn't have a career and probably never will have one.
 
 
My extensive travels through Russia have shown me that some Muscovite's have a very snobbish attitude when it comes to the "villagers" who inhabit the FSU. 
 
I sincerely hope you are not one of those D_P.
 
GOB


BTW....One of the biggest joke's here in SIB where I live is that every Russian here is from Moscow when you ask.
 
 

[Misha]

I really never understood the notion of clothing allowance, make up allowance, etc.

I am confused. Who exactly brought up the concept of a clothing allowance?

[Muzh]

I am confused. Who exactly brought up the concept of a clothing allowance?

I don't think I was referring to anything you said.

I have been reading quite a few posts where it has been mentioned as if the RW coming to this country has no notion of what is acceptable to spend and has to be limited in what she does, like teenage kids. But then again, if some are marrying teenage kids, then by all means set up an allowance.

You mentioned something important in a previous post. You sit down with your wife and discuss the family finances, instead of telling her what she can or cannot do with her "allowance."

[Donna_Pedro]

This is probably where GOB strongly disagrees with you D_P.
 
There are so many more opportunities here in the Good Ol' USA, that I dare say (sadly) it may be generations in the FSU before they see the same kind of possibilities available to them.

Obama graduated from Columbia and Harvard Law school, which set him on track in all those high-flying political circles and eventually brought him to being a president. Forgive me if I dont believe in fairy tales -even here oppotunities do not come free.

[Muzh]

This is probably where GOB strongly disagrees with you D_P.
 
There are so many more opportunities here in the Good Ol' USA, that I dare say (sadly) it may be generations in the FSU before they see the same kind of possibilities available to them.

I think GOB hit it right on the nail here.

It is not necessarily that a guy is making $50K a year but the potential to improve his lot with the addition of a bright spouse.

Now, if the man is looking for a maid, he better make more than the $50K a year because things are going to get very tight.

[Misha]

I think GOB hit it right on the nail here.

It is not necessarily that a guy is making $50K a year but the potential to improve his lot with the addition of a bright spouse.

Now, if the man is looking for a maid, he better make more than the $50K a year because things are going to get very tight.

I agree. The important thing is that the married couple have a relationship in the true sense of the word, common goals and an agreed upon plan as to how to reach those goals. In other words, a partnership of equals, both working for the success of their marriage. No two couples, even under these circumstances, will be exactly the same, but they can still be equally happy.

[possum]

There are so many more opportunities here in the Good Ol' USA, that I dare say (sadly) it may be generations in the FSU before they see the same kind of possibilities available to them.

Can you say Barack Obama?

Lenin started out with nothing, and now his body in a mausoleum! Can you name one US president whose body has been in a mausoleum for 90 years?.

[Jumper]

The average, is the average, for a reason,
we can dispute it all we want on here, but 50K is an average western salary.
 
It compares at least at an equal in standard of living for a family ,
with the FSU average.
 
 So ultimately if that somehow just isn't good enough, on average,
that's fine?
but certainly  no need to struggle to grasp what such relationships are mostly founded on,
 "on average"
 
I humbly submit i'm an average western  resident.
So i felt inclined to toss a dose of reality in here ..
 While i'm certain finances are a factor- my first wife (widowed) somehow never factored in my salary  to how much she cared for me or wanted to marry me.Neither does my current wife.Why not? because most people marry within thier socio economic range,with not a lot of thought about the finacial aspect since they generally come from the same backgrounds.
 
 
Lets presume safely that a FSU woman already living here long term in the west, on average, makes a typical  salary.
 
Now, if she meets a good local guy of simiilar socio/ecomomic background ,
she isnt going to factor much into this if he checks all her other boxes of compatabilty?
just like any other local woman would react?
 
but its funny that *if * *we*magically relocate her back to the FSU, as if she never immigrated..
then its some big factior,  and we see a forum gasping * oh my the horror!!* ,
 if she would consider the same man.
She needs to only consider above avearge, or more accurately a top ten 10% wage earner.
 
perhaps because she will incur expenses relocating (like she did originally, on her very own  ?)
 
Dear Lord, in my city of millions on immigrants, doing quite well, how amusing that mentality truly is....
 
 Hey the great thing is that it's perfectly normal for people to have different priorities in life?
I may not understand them completely.. or value things the same way..
 
but isn't that one of the important keys in  a good relationship?
Having matching priorities in life?
 
  So if a significantly above average standard of living is primarily desired,
then the couple should share that priority.
and yes absolutely be up front about it early on.
 
Perhaps the women in my life  were *slumming it*..    
but where with me anyway. somehow it seems they were basically the same level ,
 regardless of country. so this just wasn't some big factor to them.
It's not that tough of concept.
 
 
The top 10% or 20% of eastern, or western ,
wage earners are really the only ones worthy of having a family, or  a averasge FSU womans attention..
 
That is what most of you are saying, without actually spelling it out.. lol
 
 
 its very interesting....
But i'm just wondering, if the western  woman  ,or FSU woman ,does not already stand in a position to routinely pull the interest of the  top ten percent of wage earners in her country ,
I'm wondering how  members feel she's suddenly qualified to in another oountry ?
 
the great accent? the additional expenses the forum  goes over so much?
hmm what a catch for the top ten guy..who already has his local picks if he isnt  socially impaired right? 
 
oh wait there is more to it isnt there?
 
Is it too uncomfortable to address this  part?
 
I'm just tossing it out there for discussion, as truly the whole mentality here intrigues me. lol
 
 

[Kuna]

The average, is the average, for a reason,
we can dispute it all we want on here, but 50K is an average western salary.
 
It compares at least at an equal in standard of living for a family ,
with the FSU average.
 
 So ultimately if that somehow just isn't good enough, on average,
that's fine?
but certainly  no need to struggle to grasp what such relationships are mostly founded on,
 "on average"
 
I humbly submit i'm an average western  resident.
So i felt inclined to toss a dose of reality in here ..
 While i'm certain finances are a factor- my first wife (widowed) somehow never factored in my salary  to how much she cared for me or wanted to marry me.Neither does my current wife.Why not? because most people marry within thier socio economic range,with not a lot of thought about the finacial aspect since they generally come from the same backgrounds.
 
 
Lets presume safely that a FSU woman already living here long term in the west, on average, makes a typical  salary.
 
Now, if she meets a good local guy of simiilar socio/ecomomic background ,
she isnt going to factor much into this if he checks all her other boxes of compatabilty?
just like any other local woman would react?
 
but its funny that *if * *we*magically relocate her back to the FSU, as if she never immigrated..
then its some big factior,  and we see a forum gasping * oh my the horror!!* ,
 if she would consider the same man.
She needs to only consider above avearge, or more accurately a top ten 10% wage earner.
 
perhaps because she will incur expenses relocating (like she did originally, on her very own  ?)
 
Dear Lord, in my city of millions on immigrants, doing quite well, how amusing that mentality truly is....
 
 Hey the great thing is that it's perfectly normal for people to have different priorities in life?
I may not understand them completely.. or value things the same way..
 
but isn't that one of the important keys in  a good relationship?
Having matching priorities in life?
 
  So if a significantly above average standard of living is primarily desired,
then the couple should share that priority.
and yes absolutely be up front about it early on.
 
Perhaps the women in my life  were *slumming it*..    
but where with me anyway. somehow it seems they were basically the same level ,
 regardless of country. so this just wasn't some big factor to them.
It's not that tough of concept.
 
 
The top 10% or 20% of eastern, or western ,
wage earners are really the only ones worthy of having a family, or  a averasge FSU womans attention..
 
That is what most of you are saying, without actually spelling it out.. lol
 
 
 its very interesting....
But i'm just wondering, if the western  woman  ,or FSU woman ,does not already stand in a position to routinely pull the interest of the  top ten percent of wage earners in her country ,
I'm wondering how  members feel she's suddenly qualified to in another oountry ?
 
the great accent? the additional expenses the forum  goes over so much?
hmm what a catch for the top ten guy..who already has his local picks if he isnt  socially impaired right? 
 
oh wait there is more to it isnt there?
 
Is it too uncomfortable to address this  part?
 
I'm just tossing it out there for discussion, as truly the whole mentality here intrigues me. lol

Some excellent thoughts in there AJ...  I wouldn't expect you'll get the responses you're looking for those.  Some members in this thread are desperately avoiding reality.

[GoodOlBoy]

..... I need alcohol to sustain my makeshift happiness 

Hey....me too!!
You know what they say: "It's 5 o'clock somewhere!" 
 
GOB

[Ranetka]

 Now if you help your friends to filter liars because an FSU woman mustn't take bigs risks for a non steady guy, whom will not be able in the future to support a woman for a decent life, no problems., i would do the same around me to help any fsu i like.

In case of visa ,  i think i can avoid to display the whole wage, and probably the same in case of marriage
 
 And of course i will display the information as late as possible (if the one i date don't like the numeral i would put on the document... she would be free to stay at home, not necessary a bad thing, she will filter herself).
 

So  you are going to give her false details for her visa application?
 

Plan A
You can choose two options. Tell her that you come two weeks and if you don't like her or something is wrong you can move to the next big city which is Kharkov.
Plan B
You can do the same and tell her that you come for one week. If you really like her you can say : i really like you and i can change my tickets and stay one week more.
Pat

Advising someone else to tell a woman a direct lie...
 
Can you please explain these liers the women need to avoid...What exactly are they liying about?

[Donna_Pedro]

 its very interesting....
But i'm just wondering, if the western  woman  ,or FSU woman ,does not already stand in a position to routinely pull the interest of the  top ten percent of wage earners in her country ,
I'm wondering how  members feel she's suddenly qualified to in another oountry ?

You mean its unfair, right? Oh, yes it is. Life is unfair in general. How fair was that Cinderella married her prince? But she did.    How fair was whatheirnames married Donald Trump? But they did. it happens all the time. Qualified my ass.

[Ranetka]

Patagonie,
 
You repeat ad naseum that you will not disclose your financial information, up to the point you were saying while disclosing info for the purpose of visa application you are not going to disclose all of your assets. (I can dig this post out if you like me to).
 
You advise other people tell the women they are about to see lies about if they are visiting other women.
 
You even dress down on purpose.
 
What kind of liers women should avoid? Please explain.

[GoodOlBoy]

Can you name one US president whose body has been in a mausoleum for 90 years?.

No I can't Possum.

But a man by the name of Abraham Lincoln was assassinated 147 years ago and we gave him a heck of a send off!
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Funeral_and_burial_of_Abraham_Lincoln
 
To bad "Comrade Lenin" wasn't dealt with earlier in his reign of terror.
 
Maybe some of your ancestors would have lived just a little bit longer.
 
GOB

[GQBlues]

Again, GQ, different families have different priorities. Some families seek to save money where they can, to spend more on things they value. Some don't. You were the one arguing that a man would need $100,000 for the first year, I merely pointed out that this was a ridiculous sum and that many have made it on much less. But, I agree that this is what must my understood before getting married. If you know that you will be sharing a family car, then you should not marry a woman who expects a new car waiting in the driveway when she arrives. I am capable of understanding that what works for one family won't be acceptable for another, and one what man or woman seeks, may be a turnoff for another.

Look, here's the bottom line for you. No one, and I mean no one, aspire to live poorly. We simply have 2 different line of thoughts, Misha. You seem to 'take' $50K and start looking at ways to 'cut' corners and believe you're responsible enough managing your expenses better and are amply ready to get yourself married with that earning.
 
I don't.
 
If I was making $50K and in my mind I know cutting corners isn't what I envision as living a happy married life, I'd would do everything possible to better my condition. Which I did. When the thoughts of marriage came to me, I aspired to 'raise' my source of income to make certain that when I took on another human being into my life as my wife, then I am more than capable, not just ready, to make a life with her. There are no 50 bucks for clothes, 10 bucks for movies, 2 bucks for a sneeze...over-shooting that target never hurts. Aiming low will....
 
Just because I was in a much better financial state, and equipped with a better economical mind, doesn't mean I was being luxuriously indulgent with my wife. It simply means, we will be in a much better living condition where opening her up to opportunities and possibilities to make something of herself when she arrives will be much more than a wish list.
 
All the things I was able to make possible for my wife was not because I was buying her love, but because I felt that if I ever took a soul out of her town and country to be by my side that I would spare no expense within my means ( which I've aspired to improve upon myself alone as preparation) to make sure she is able to make something of herself, for herself, for us, and for all the people important in her life. I wanted her to become an accomplished individual as a result of trusting me for being her lifelong partner and husband. Financially, emotionally, mentally and spiritually...I aspired her to be a full-rounded individual who can fully feel she has every opportunity to make something of herself. That's my idea of partnership, and NOT drive around the neighborhood looking for garage sales to clothe her.
 
To me, THAT, is my definition of being a 'responsible' loving, caring husband. I can do this because I took the time and patience to be *better* prepared for it instead of looking for ways to cut corners.
 
You, however, it seems to me, live in a very constrained environment that hovers in absurdity. You take a static platform and cut corners within. I simply hurl myself above a few platforms so my wife and I can comfortably live.
 
It doesn't make either of us wrong. It just makes us different.

It is still overpriced if you can get the same clothes at half or a third of the price or even cheaper.

I will lay down the armor on this one and just let you chew on that a bit on your own.

[Misha]

If I was making $50K and in my mind I know cutting corners isn't what I envision as living a happy married life, I'd would do everything possible to better my condition.

You should do both. You should seek to save money by seeking to maximize value to dollar and you should also be seeking to earn more money. If you can do both, then you and your family will be better off.

[Daveman]

What a wildly interesting (and meandering, and twisting, and provocative, and sometime too personal) thread. Gotta be one of the best in recent memory (which happens to be the only memory I have anymore). 


Seems like we'll need to add "money" along with religion and politics as Ubiquitous Forbidden Topics.




Yeah, there's 27 sides to every story, and value systems do vary -- and a near death experience notwithstanding -- rarely, if ever, change.  My thoughts on the subject tend to mirror Jumper's.  Most people would fall into the center of that curve. 

[Misha]

The average, is the average, for a reason,
we can dispute it all we want on here, but 50K is an average western salary.

Yes and we see it in the results of the survey that RWD commissioned. The category with the most responses for household income was the less than $50,000, followed by the $50,000 to $75,000: http://www.goodwife.com/survey/xcultural_p11.html
 

I humbly submit i'm an average western  resident.

I will join the club though I earn a bit more than average   

but its funny that *if * *we*magically relocate her back to the FSU, as if she never immigrated..
then its some big factior,  and we see a forum gasping * oh my the horror!!* ,
 if she would consider the same man.
She needs to only consider above avearge, or more accurately a top ten 10% wage earner.

+1   

[Jumper]

You mean its unfair, right? Oh, yes it is. Life is unfair in general. How fair was that Cinderella married her prince? But she did.    How fair was whatheirnames married Donald Trump? But they did. it happens all the time. Qualified my ass.

Nope, never mentioned unfair,never crossed my mind.In fact if someone can pull such off, I give them full props for doing so!!  You go Girl!!
 
I'd say i'm on the other side DP, as always, in any country,  had women interested that by your reality shouldn't be..pretty unfair to them to fall for just an  average  bloke.lol
 
 My point  was not about fairness at all.
 It was about the  reality of most people lives on either side of the globe. MOST people the world around , are average,and in all likelyhood will marry average, in their society or another.
If they can step up a notch, that's fantastic!
but to suggest it's somehow awful if they don't, just seems  rather silly to me.
 
You are the one mentioning the fantasy Cinderella ,and that it *happens all the time*
 as some  form of dispute  to most peoples daily reality?
That's just irony at it's finest.
 
Remember Pretty Woman? Everyone roots for Julia Roberts character....
Cinder 'frekin'rilla!    Hey!  I do too!!!
but when looking at the big picture of who generally marries whom .
 I don't lose all touch with reality.
 
You suggestng the girls hold out ,or dig deep for better opportunity is just fine..
why not? It's as easy to fall in love with a rich man as a poor one.
hahahahaha! Bravo!
 
 I'm simply suggesting that a forum debating this..
just might want to consider that the average FSU woman, that western men meet,
on average has a middle or working class background. Nothing wrong with that. Just like there is  nothing wrong with her marriying a FSU man or western man of similar background.
In fact its very likely what either would do in their country..
So why is it in poor judgement to do so if crossing a border?
It's not.
 
To suggest its different seems mercenary, or perhaps just plain unrealistic.
Imagine that ,some things  we all know and recognize within the MOB scene.
 
  Amusingly I certainly do not doubt that you are inundated with requests from single women ,
to locate them a Ricard Gere *character* from the unrealistic movie.
But lets not totally forget that the women in a  higher level in society,  shouldn't need much help attracting same.
 
You DO get that Cinderalla was intended to be the best choice,precisely  because of her inner integrity and character  , right?
I dont think the mercenary ,or even pragamtic ,side was played up..

[Donna_Pedro]

You DO get that Cinderalla was intended to be the best choice,precisely  because of her inner integrity and character  , right?
I dont think the mercenary ,or even pragamtic ,side was played up..

Right. I do remember asking my mom this question - why didnt her daddy help her to deal with evil step-mother?  The girl did not have any backbone. Heck, this whole family lacked  backbones, only that stepmother had one ...

You suggestng the girls hold out ,or dig deep for better opportunity is just fine..
why not? It's as easy to fall in love with a rich man as a poor one.

Sorry I do not remember ever mentioning  love. And no, generally speaking there is no connection between wealth and how easy or difficult it is to love a person.

So why is it in poor judgement to do so if crossing a border?
It's not.

Do not compare internet dating to a regular one. In real dating you have  zero chance to  socialize with  anybody from a different social level. Internets smashes all social borders and lets you date whoever.

[Daveman]

Do not compare internet dating to a regular one. In real dating you have  zero chance to  socialize with  anybody from a different social level. Internets smashes all social borders and lets you date whoever.

.. seems a new social border is being proselytized/attempted/created where one did not exist.